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Defiance Industries posted:Hopefully they make the mechlab follow actual customization rules and make massive overhauls like that actually challenging. Relocating ammo crits from one part of the 'mech to another, without changing anything else, tends to be only a few hours to a few dozen hours of tech work. Anywhere from 1 day to 1 week worth of time. It's engine swaps, weapon layout changes, etc. that require ALL THE TIME.
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Sep 8, 2017 00:50
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Weapon layout changes it really depends on what kind of change. If you're going from Large Laser -> 2x Medium Lasers and armor (Looking at you, Rifleman) then it only takes a few days. Swapping an AC/5 and its ammo to a PPC and extra heat sinks is going to take like a week.
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Sep 8, 2017 00:53
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Defiance Industries posted:. . . make massive overhauls like that actually challenging. Remmon posted:. . . tends to be only a few hours to a few dozen hours of tech work. Anywhere from 1 day to 1 week worth of time. Strobe posted:. . . it only takes a few days. Swapping an AC/5 and its ammo to a PPC and extra heat sinks is going to take like a week. Greaaat, now ya'll making me bust out them 'Running a Mercenary Unit' Rule-Sets again and looking up those repair, refit, and overhaul worksheets! 
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Sep 8, 2017 00:58
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Strobe posted:Weapon layout changes it really depends on what kind of change. If you're going from Large Laser -> 2x Medium Lasers and armor (Looking at you, Rifleman) then it only takes a few days. Swapping an AC/5 and its ammo to a PPC and extra heat sinks is going to take like a week. do we have any info on whether this kind of trade off will be in the single player?
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Sep 8, 2017 00:58
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sebmojo posted:do we have any info on whether this kind of trade off will be in the single player? No. I'm going off of Strategic Operations (well, more specifically what I remember of it from MekHQ running a mercenary unit), not anything from the upcoming game.
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Sep 8, 2017 01:15
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Remmon posted:Relocating ammo crits from one part of the 'mech to another, without changing anything else, tends to be only a few hours to a few dozen hours of tech work. Anywhere from 1 day to 1 week worth of time. That's only true if you move something of equal size from the destination of the ammo to the original place. If you move a ton of missiles to the RT from the LT without shifting a medium laser from the RT to LT, your techs need to rebalance the mech. It IS very simple... as long as you keep the net movement of tonnage and crits at 0. If you actually change any of that it gets complicated. TBH full customization is kind of the death of fun in BattleTech so I really hope they keep firm reins on it. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 01:19
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The big secret of playing BTech is that most assault mechs actually aren't very good unless: - Your opponent isn't very good - Your opponent also has mostly slow units (this sometimes overlaps with the first point) - You're in a city fight In basically any other situation assault mechs tend to be either too slow to position themselves properly against someone properly using a faster OPFOR, or they just get math'd to death by bad combinations of modifiers because your opponent is getting +3 move mods and you're getting +1s and can't get into your range sweet spots. Or all of the above. Hell, depending on the assault mech and what your opponent has, a lot of times you can just flat out lose the damage race to a light swarm even assuming similar to-hit modifers, and wooded/tropical maps also usually just suck for you if your opponent has good jumpy flankers. This is also still true in L1/3025/introductory play. Almost moreso, because you don't have the tools to deal with annoying flankers at that tech level that you do in later ones. This is why Griffin Hunts are such a good (and universally loathed) tactic. So Assaults being bad in HBSTech is actually a decently good sign that it's modeling the feel of the game properly. Fraction Jackson fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 02:10
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Until you get to the magnificent monstrosity that is the Mad Cat Mk II 4, which has four Clan ER Larges, two LRM-15s with Artemis, and moves 4/6/4. I love that 'Mech so much. 
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Sep 8, 2017 02:13
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4/6/4 can't generate a +3 mod so in my book it goes under "not sanguine". My favorite assault mech is probably the Xanthos-5O for this reason.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:18
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Fraction Jackson posted:4/6/4 can't generate a +3 mod so in my book it goes under "not sanguine". This is why you want a 3/5/5 mech! 
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Sep 8, 2017 02:29
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Fraction Jackson posted:The big secret of playing BTech is that most assault mechs actually aren't very good unless: I think thats genuinely true for 3025/L1 in general but there are some really solid assaults in the later tech levels that are loaded with tools designed to take out a lot of the scraper tactics lights take out. I think the more reasonable point is that the 5/8+ skirmisher swarm is generally the best thing to run (assuming no knowledge of terrain/opponent) and eventually there are assaults that can support that swarm very well
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Sep 8, 2017 02:33
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Mukaikubo posted:This is why you want a 3/5/5 mech! 4/6/5 gets an honorable mention in the form of the Shrike, which is one of the most fun to play Assaults of all time.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:34
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Fraction Jackson posted:4/6/4 can't generate a +3 mod so in my book it goes under "not sanguine". Anybody who has ever used that mech knows to love it. Literally unkillable jumpy quad zombie that dumps 5 pulse lasers and a 100 ton kick into a mech every turn.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:35
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Fraction Jackson posted:The big secret of playing BTech is that most assault mechs actually aren't very good unless: Couple other situations: -You are fighting an engagement where the enemy has to come to you (defender in a scenario, canyon maps w/ bottleneck) -C3 network -You are using a unit that has Off-Map Movement specials
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Sep 8, 2017 02:41
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Defiance Industries posted:Couple other situations: Even with case #2 there, there are fast c3 nets centered around stuff like the Bishamon that don't require big guys to deal damage. c3i is even better for fast networks just because there are more units suited to it. #1 and #3 I'll grant though.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:43
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Fraction Jackson posted:
We actually discussed in the other thread that "good in an urban environment" is just a euphemism for "bad". 
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Sep 8, 2017 02:46
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Strobe posted:4/6/5 gets an honorable mention in the form of the Shrike, which is one of the most fun to play Assaults of all time. Shrike's a 4/6/4, at least in its standard config. The Onager's a 3/5/5 though!
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Sep 8, 2017 02:47
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PoptartsNinja posted:Shrike's a 4/6/4, at least in its standard config. The Onager's a 3/5/5 though! Partial Wing.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:48
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Zaodai posted:We actually discussed in the other thread that "good in an urban environment" is just a euphemism for "bad". That was the running joke among Legends admins back in the day, too. Along with stuff like the Koshi Rule (the person who fields a Koshi automatically loses), and Late Game Initiative (winning init multiple turns in a row means you win, but only if you declare that you have Late Game Initiative; contrary to the name, it does not actually have to be late in the game).
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Sep 8, 2017 02:56
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Fraction Jackson posted:Even with case #2 there, there are fast c3 nets centered around stuff like the Bishamon that don't require big guys to deal damage. c3i is even better for fast networks just because there are more units suited to it. The Bishamon is fine too, as C3 is very versatile stuff, but C3 has a particular advantage for Assaults. Like you said, you aren't dictating range brackets in an assault, but a C3 unit with spotters (I use the Blitzkrieg-4F and 267 model Mongoose II) allows you to be more or less certain you're always firing at short range. I've found it's a great way to force your enemies to close with you.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:57
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Strobe posted:Partial Wing. Ah, nevermind. The only Shrike in my SSW seems to be a "we're guessing" config with no partial wing.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:06
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PoptartsNinja posted:Ah, nevermind. The only Shrike in my SSW seems to be a "we're guessing" config with no partial wing. Yeah Skyhigh never finished updating for TRO 3145/50. It's a 4/6/5 with 27 effective heat dissipation rocking 15 tons of standard armor, two ER Larges, two UAC/5s (all on a TC), and an LRM-10. It's not the heaviest punch, but it's mobile as poo poo and it can jump and fire both ER Larges with no problems whatsoever. The Ultra-5s end up as long range crit-seekers more often than not. I like it, but I also play Falcons and am really biased.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:09
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Defiance Industries posted:The Bishamon is fine too, as C3 is very versatile stuff, but C3 has a particular advantage for Assaults. Like you said, you aren't dictating range brackets in an assault, but a C3 unit with spotters (I use the Blitzkrieg-4F and 267 model Mongoose II) allows you to be more or less certain you're always firing at short range. I've found it's a great way to force your enemies to close with you. Definitely true, but I've always gotten more mileage out of c3i than c3. c3 nets are pretty fragile, and a lot of c3i mediums also have their own ECM, so you can flip them to ECCM and then not give a single poo poo about any of your OPFOR's network breakers. The Crab-30, GRF-6CS, and OTT-9CS are especially great for that. Meanwhile there's a lot less good c3 units that also have ECM.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:10
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Strobe posted:I like it, but I also play Falcons and am really biased. I've got a trinary of Falcons so I can relate.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:I've got a trinary of Falcons so I can relate. My Falcons recently became too large to classify as a mere Cluster. 
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Sep 8, 2017 03:37
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Fraction Jackson posted:Definitely true, but I've always gotten more mileage out of c3i than c3. c3 nets are pretty fragile, and a lot of c3i mediums also have their own ECM, so you can flip them to ECCM and then not give a single poo poo about any of your OPFOR's network breakers. The Crab-30, GRF-6CS, and OTT-9CS are especially great for that. Meanwhile there's a lot less good c3 units that also have ECM. Fortunately one of those units is the model 267 Mongoose II. C3i is a more durable network for sure, but I appreciate the ability to scale up to a company size. Plus, the 221st company of the 2nd Donegal (Hell's Wall) fields Lyran equipment and uses Lyran organization, so C3i isn't a good fit.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:55
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Really the weight class thing is always an issue regardless of which game you're playing. Lean too much in one direction, and you get situations like this where Assaults are bad to use because they just get cut to ribbons. Too much in the other, and you get situations where if you /don't/ bring your heaviest machines, you just flat out lose a battle of attrition. It all depends on how the game is set up. Make the gameplay too brawly and Lights become a liability, make the game too mobile and suddenly Assaults are giant punching bags.
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Sep 8, 2017 12:15
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kingcom posted:I think thats genuinely true for 3025/L1 in general but there are some really solid assaults in the later tech levels that are loaded with tools designed to take out a lot of the scraper tactics lights take out. The Charger would be a beast in HBS Battletech. Massive weight-based melee damage for knockdowns and all the smalls get to fire even during a melee (and you can make them....flamers!). Plus they shifted most of a mechs cost out of the engine so mechs that have big engines but are otherwise sucky aren't ridiculously expensive.
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Sep 8, 2017 12:21
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Voting C For underdog yakuza love story.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:06
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DatonKallandor posted:Plus they shifted most of a mechs cost out of the engine so mechs that have big engines but are otherwise sucky aren't ridiculously expensive. Jesus, with all these reasonable decisions being made the next thing you know they're going to end up fixing onboard DHS in the inevitable sequel.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:20
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Changed my mind on running with Aerospace range rules, next map will be pretty much standard except short range is always a minimum of 3 hexes (or maximum range, whichever is longer. Sorry heavy machine guns!) so machine guns and small lasers remain not trash. IS medium pulse lasers and Clan small pulse lasers get their brackets bumped to 3/5/6 instead of 2/4/6. I don't think much else will be affected. I'll do aerospace ranges sometime in the near future, they're really nice. This mission is going to be all about managing range.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:20
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PoptartsNinja posted:This mission is going to be all about managing range. Has voting officially ended then? Or, will either mission be range-centric?
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Sep 9, 2017 00:23
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'll do aerospace ranges sometime in the near future, they're really nice. This mission is going to be all about managing range. The mission after that will be all about managing a pizzeria. Mmm, pizza.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:23
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CourValant posted:Has voting officially ended then? Or, will either mission be range-centric? Not officially, but things have stayed pretty even in terms of what's ahead and what's behind. I don't anticipate we'll see the 12 or so votes necessary to push 2nd place into first in the next day. Edit: I think "Accurate Weapon (TAG)" may be the most disappointing positive quirk. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 00:28
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Zaodai posted:The mission after that will be all about managing a pizzeria. Mmm, pizza. Hey, I enjoyed games like 'Restaurant Empire', back in the day. Actually, it might be more appropriate if we managed a hospital after this next mission, ala, 'Theme Hospital'. PoptartsNinja posted:Not officially, but things have stayed pretty even in terms of what's ahead and what's behind. I don't anticipate we'll see the 12 or so votes necessary to push 2nd place into first in the next day. Frankly, I'm surprised there's been this many votes thus far; guess we have a lot more lurkers than I thought. PoptartsNinja posted:Edit: I think "Accurate Weapon (TAG)" may be the most disappointing positive quirk. Not if you give us off-board Arty again!
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Sep 9, 2017 00:41
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I usually get about a hundred votes, we hit 110 which is about the point the votes stop rolling in.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:43
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That Clanner lasing things with a TAG and then getting all butthurt when a tank commander took it as a request for fire support was the best. What a suitably Clannish twat.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:01
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I'm torn. I badly want to saddle a player with an O-Bakemono but don't want to create a situation where they're worthless if the players they have to coordinate with die or won't play ball. Maybe I'll split the difference and give someone an Orochi.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:46
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm torn. I badly want to saddle a player with an O-Bakemono but don't want to create a situation where they're worthless if the players they have to coordinate with die or won't play ball. make it armed with missiles as powerful as the Arrow IVs in the Caballeros and i'll use that thing no matter who dies, and I'm probably not alone
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Sep 9, 2017 02:51
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Could always just give anyone using an Arrow equipped unit their own light spotter, like an Owens of some flavor.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:57
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