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Prester Jane posted:I wanted to respond to this. As something of a modern Deist I have a couple of problems with this verse; although not with its intended meaning per se so much as a critique of the consequences of the way it has traditionally been interpreted in American Christianity. Specifically this verse (among others) is often used to justify the "suffering is good for the soul" attitude that is highly prevalent in American Christianity, particularly with an aim towards getting moderate Christians to turn a blind eye towards what radicalized Christians are doing to vulnerable populations. I personally think that the way that this verse is often taught in American Christianity has enabled some pretty tremendous abuse via providing an easy justification for moderate Christians to avert their gaze from the suffering their more radicalized brethren are causing in the name of Christ. What you describe is a pathological Christianity that looks like an apostasy from the church that Jesus of Nazareth started in the gospel stories. Every person is capable of rationalizing indifference towards the suffering of others or even indifference to the suffering they cause. But using the Christian sacred stories to accomplish self-vindication is counter-Christlike, which Christians have understood can happen since the writing of the new testament. But so many people identify with the terms Christian, American, and American Christians. They're broad categories with personally defined values, so I'm not eager to comment on the prevalence of counter-Christlike thoughts and actions except to say that when I encounter an individual who is looking to shrug off the moral responsibility they know they have in their hearts, it's regrettable no matter what religion or nationality they identify with. quote:Also on a human level I would caution against the limitations of the sentiment expressed in this verse- everyone (I do mean everyone) has a limit to how much suffering they can experience before their mind simply shuts down. Willpower can take you pretty far, but I think that there are hard limits to how far even the strongest of wills can carry an individual. Past a certain amount of suffering (that point can vary considerably from individual to individual) I believe that any of us would simply be psychologically crushed into nothingness. Without disagreeing that any individual can be broken through too much mental or physical trauma , I don't think willpower fully covers why a person can hang on so long in a situation that looks doomed from the outside. From Viktor Frankl's experience, a Jewish Austrian psychiatrist imprisoned at Auschwitz, it's not the will to power that gave a prisoner the strength or courage to live another day. It's a will to meaning, a salient knowledge of something or someone to live for, that gave him and other survivors sufficient comfort in a world of death. Frankl claims (and I'm convinced) that a person who has a good enough "why" to live can endure almost any how, while understanding that the brain is an organ that can fail as a result of trauma. Further, Frankl found in his experience that a meaning or purpose is available to anyone in any situation, even in the face of an abuser who has total power over you. He concludes with a belief that the ultimate meaning available to us normal humans is in love and through love, an opinion that is highly compatible with the gospel of Jesus of Nazareth without having to originate from any common Christian origin. Caufman fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Sep 7, 2017 |
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Sep 7, 2017 07:29
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Anyone know anything about Bishop Edward Braxton of Belleville? He's giving a talk on BLM at my university parish tonight
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Sep 7, 2017 14:39
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Our Lady, Star of the Sea, pray for us. Is it a mortal sin to not attend Mass in hurricane force winds.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:03
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The Phlegmatist posted:Our Lady, Star of the Sea, pray for us. You should go. If it's a big enough Mass it will stay put.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:05
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Having skipped church this past Sunday due to no other reason than sheer unadulterated sloth, I can't in good conscience press someone to attend in the face of a hurricane.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:02
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The Phlegmatist posted:Our Lady, Star of the Sea, pray for us. How are the Waffle Houses?
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Sep 8, 2017 04:16
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Deteriorata posted:You should go. If it's a big enough Mass it will stay put. I love this thread. I do enjoy the insight into other peoples' worldviews it offers, but to be honest I've pretty much exhausted the particular source of curiosity that initially led me here. I stay for the puns.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:37
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Deteriorata posted:You should go. If it's a big enough Mass it will stay put.
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Sep 8, 2017 11:45
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If I have power Sunday morning, I'll probably just find a livestream of a service to watch with my family.
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Sep 8, 2017 13:23
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My parish cancelled Mass on Sunday and the bishop dispensed us from the obligation. The notice ended with "may God help us all" which is definitely not ominous.
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Sep 8, 2017 17:48
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The Phlegmatist posted:My parish cancelled Mass on Sunday and the bishop dispensed us from the obligation. Loving Africa Chaps posted:Choo Choo it's the hurricane train "May God help us all" sounds about right. Plus Katia, the Mexico earthquake, the solar flare...
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Sep 8, 2017 18:14
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...the Russian military exercises, Kim Jong Nuke...
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Sep 8, 2017 20:18
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Of course the world has to go to hell right when mine starts getting good.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:15
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Cythereal posted:"May God help us all" sounds about right. Plus Katia, the Mexico earthquake, the solar flare... It's good to see you checking in still. I look forward to the time we may all shitpost in freedom from all anxiety. Ceciltron posted:Of course the world has to go to hell right when mine starts getting good. Getting popular with the attractive sex, then?
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Sep 8, 2017 22:19
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Caufman posted:It's good to see you checking in still. I look forward to the time we may all shitpost in freedom from all anxiety. I'm not celebrating yet, Irma's shifted course directly towards where I evacuated to. 
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Sep 8, 2017 22:31
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Cythereal posted:I'm not celebrating yet, Irma's shifted course directly towards where I evacuated to. Ceciltron posted:Of course the world has to go to hell right when mine starts getting good. Doubt besets me; I don't think my prayers are working!!
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Sep 8, 2017 22:33
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Cythereal posted:I'm not celebrating yet, Irma's shifted course directly towards where I evacuated to. drat it, that explains it. This storm hates Protestants. Get back over to the east coast so everything I own isn't floating around in the gulf.
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Sep 8, 2017 23:02
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Caufman posted:Getting popular with the attractive sex, then? Oh I just love my job and my wife and we're working on the immigration stuff and everything is nice and stable. Sheltered from the world in my small town, I tend to my garden.
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Sep 8, 2017 23:21
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Ceciltron posted:Oh I just love my job and my wife and we're working on the immigration stuff and everything is nice and stable. Praying for all the hurricane goons.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:17
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So apparently the resident parishioners at my local university parish resisted having a permanent crucifix on the wall because it would distract from the brick, as it's the largest freestanding brick wall in Indiana
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Sep 9, 2017 03:47
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(1) Where in Indiana? (2) What's the profile pic from? L5R?
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Sep 9, 2017 06:29
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WerrWaaa posted:(1) Where in Indiana? St. Thomas Aquinas at Purdue. The picture's from Netrunner but Matt Zeilinger did a lot of L5R work
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Sep 9, 2017 06:36
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Did I mention I once stole the prophecies of Fatima in a Shadowrun game?  StashAugustine posted:So apparently the resident parishioners at my local university parish resisted having a permanent crucifix on the wall because it would distract from the brick, as it's the largest freestanding brick wall in Indiana That is magnificiently goony!
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Sep 9, 2017 07:12
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Deteriorata posted:https://www.facebook.com/abstvradio/photos/a.843682225731003.1073741829.558698930896002/1505006082931944/?type=3&theater
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Sep 9, 2017 15:00
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HEY GAIL posted:antigua is safe! praise god! Barbuda, on the other hand, not so much. The PM was a bit optimistic. They're desperately trying to get everyone off before Jose hits.
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Sep 9, 2017 15:38
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I thought you all may enjoy a Yiddish version of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah where the lyrics are edited somewhat.
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Sep 10, 2017 18:09
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I thought you all may enjoy a Yiddish version of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah where the lyrics are edited somewhat. I think, in this context, "edited somewhat" is best read as "rather quite butchered." Forgive me, but that rendition pained me. But to be fair, most covers of Hallelujah do.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:55
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Numerical Anxiety posted:I think, in this context, "edited somewhat" is best read as "rather quite butchered." Forgive me, but that rendition pained me. But to be fair, most covers of Hallelujah do. "Holy feminine spirit" made me cringe, a bit.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:19
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Prayers appear to be working, Irma's hitting Florida but it's nowhere near as bad as we'd feared. Looking like I may lose power but not much else.
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Sep 10, 2017 22:10
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Thirteen Orphans posted:"Holy feminine spirit" made me cringe, a bit. That and "Why must you be ashamed like a virgin?" Also the arrangement of verses follows Jeff Buckley's version rather than Cohen's, but adds in the one about the Name, which is then deprived of the somewhat cruel playfulness that really makes it work. Cohen knew how to make the vulgar holy. This one takes the holy at face value, and just ends up being vulgar.
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Sep 11, 2017 01:23
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Cythereal posted:Prayers appear to be working, Irma's hitting Florida but it's nowhere near as bad as we'd feared. Looking like I may lose power but not much else. Level drain is bad enough, you never know when you have to smoke a demonic cultist. Naw j/k glad you're safe 
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Sep 11, 2017 07:00
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After a roadtrip of more than 2000 miles, I'm moved back to the area where I grew up and start teaching science at the local tribal college tomorrow. I'm excited! My church options are pretty limited out here: Catholicism, Evangelical Protestants, conservative synods of Lutheranism (WELS, LCMS), or Anglicanism. So I'm probably going back to my Episco-pals.
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Sep 12, 2017 00:57
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Found this icon of St Mark Ji Tianxiang: I love the image of him finally trampling his opium pipe.
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Sep 12, 2017 01:36
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Found this icon of St Mark Ji Tianxiang: I love the image of him finally trampling his opium pipe. owns
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Sep 12, 2017 02:04
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Yes it is so.
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Sep 12, 2017 04:19
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Pellisworth posted:After a roadtrip of more than 2000 miles, I'm moved back to the area where I grew up and start teaching science at the local tribal college tomorrow. I'm excited! Which one has the best native hotties?
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Sep 12, 2017 05:54
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JcDent posted:Which one has the best native hotties? Can we not do this? Fetishizing other races is really uncomfortable, especially where these are socially and economically marginalized to the point of spiking drug use and youth suicide rates.
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Sep 12, 2017 06:29
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Tias posted:Can we not do this? Fetishizing other races is really uncomfortable, especially where these are socially and economically marginalized to the point of spiking drug use and youth suicide rates. I'm sorry, my only fetishes are white ladies and Soviet tanks, I was just trying to make a lighthearted joke 
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Sep 12, 2017 09:13
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So I'm taking Religion 101 as mentioned previously, and I'm being taught that neither orthodox or catholics believe in inherited sin! Or, the caths do, but that the baptism washes it away. Is it just me, or does this mean that cathodox have a much more positive view of humanity than protestants? JcDent posted:I'm sorry, my only fetishes are white ladies and Soviet tanks, I was just trying to make a lighthearted joke We good, it's just that words mean things and some things we shouldn't normalize 
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Sep 12, 2017 09:24
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I only pick churches based on the attractiveness of the women
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Sep 12, 2017 09:50
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