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Cool, I solved Twin Peaks  But really I think it was mostly a stylistic visual thing more than anything else, but it would make sense that the Fireman would need some incredible source of ELECTRICITY (I mean, right?) but who really knows. In a different flavor, here's a very nice essay I just read on the AV Club: http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-gave-us-a-moving-meditation-on-death-1800661325 And he's absolutely right, in this essay, but there is so much more to the whole thing that he doesn't touch on. But that's OK, we've got plenty of time to figure it out. I do like the point he makes about this series almost *needing* to leave so many loose ends dangling while simultaneously revealing its on looping nature. The entire series is like that needle-skipping sound we're told to lsiten to at the very beginning. That's Cooper peering out of the glass box right at us, at that key moment where the nature of the dream most clearly reveals itself to him. And then he says goodbye to Lynch/Cole and Dern/Diane - I honestly feel like it's both and when he makes the curtain call reference and steps through the door, that might be Kyle Maclachlan as much as Dale Cooper. I know Lynch doesn't like getting meta (as the article astutely points out) but that was inarguably a meta-as-gently caress moment.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:07
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I think it's a legit criticism that we have no idea what Bad Cooper's plan was.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:07
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I just realized how much fun it's going to be watching this with someone else who hasn't seen it and is totally unspoiled. I'm pretty sure that vicarious thrill is as close as I'm going to get to the feeling of watching this season ever again. It's actually a pretty OK alternative if you find someone who legitimately has an equal passion for the material.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:13
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Alan_Shore posted:I think it's a legit criticism that we have no idea what Bad Cooper's plan was. And what's the deal with that briefcase in pulp fiction?!?
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Sep 8, 2017 02:14
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Alan_Shore posted:I think it's a legit criticism that we have no idea what Bad Cooper's plan was. He was after Judy but didn't know that Judy was Judy. He even said as much as to what he wanted and it was his driving force all throughout the show. In some ways he and good cooper had the same ultimate goal. G-III fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 02:30
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That Die Glocke was purportedly built in a facility called The Giant and used a purple liquid to operate seems like too many coincidences for Lynch/Frost to have not incorporated it.G-III posted:He was after Judy but didn't know that Judy was Judy. He even said as much as to what he wanted and it was his driving force all throughout the show. In some ways he and good cooper had the same ultimate goal. He possibly had the same goal as a result of being Coop's doppelgänger. If going after Judy was this secret mission Coop, Cole, Jefferies, and Briggs had concocted then it makes sense to a degree that that drive would be imprinted on his doppelgänger. The dark spin on it being that while Coop probably wanted to use Laura to stymie or halt Judy's influence on humanity (it's unclear even what Coop's ultimate end goal regarding Judy actually was) then it stands to reason his doppelgänger would want to harness that power for himself somehow. The intentions of both Coops beyond killing the other is ambiguous at best.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:44
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Why cookie Rocket posted:And what's the deal with that briefcase in pulp fiction?!? That's absurd! In Pulp Fiction we know who wants the briefcase and that whatever's in it is valuable. That's fine. Here it looks like Bad Cooper wants Judy, who might be the same as the mother (but maybe not) , but the only thing he does is mess around with coordinates that only lead him to the real Diane that he himself put away in what might be the White Lodge (somehow). How the sense coordinates are supposed to help him get Judy (if that's what he wants) is never explained. If the information is fresh in someone's mind can anyone break down exactly what Bad Cooper did in this season? That might help! He mainly wants to avoid going back to the black lodge, but after that...
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Sep 8, 2017 02:45
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kaworu posted:I just realized how much fun it's going to be watching this with someone else who hasn't seen it and is totally unspoiled.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:53
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Escobarbarian posted:People kept saying the voice sounded like Sarah when you messed with it earlier in the thread, but I never saw an actual example. I didn't hear it either, but my bet is on that being Sarah/Judy too. She's the only character I can think of that fits the conversation, names and whatnot. There were a few things that seem important to me. The voice on the line talks about missing the Doppelganger in New York. Two relevant people show up in scenes in New York. One is Cooper, who obviously makes no sense to be the voice on the phone. The other is the monster thing in the box, which all signs point toward being Judy. Sarah is the "mother" of Laura Palmer, who is at the center of everything in the show. Much has been made of the Mother/Judy/Experiment connection and I tend to believe there's merit to that connection. With the scenes that Sarah had in S3, she's clearly inhabited by something bad and Judy seems like the most obviously clued passenger. When the Doppelganger goes to the Dutchman's, Jeffries tells him that he's already met Judy. Sarah is someone that Cooper, Bob and possibly even the Doppelganger have all met in the past. Most convincing for me, the voice on the phone call tells the Doppelganger that he's going back to the Black Lodge and the voice will be with Bob again. Guess who else has been with Bob before. Sarah lived with him for years, even if she was never possessed directly. You could say that Judy was with Bob in the past too. The only other human characters I can think of in the whole show that have been with Bob for any significant time in any notable way are Laura (dead), Leland (also dead), Mike and the Doppelganger.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:56
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Alan_Shore posted:Here it looks like Bad Cooper wants Judy, who might be the same as the mother (but maybe not) , but the only thing he does is mess around with coordinates that only lead him to the real Diane that he himself put away in what might be the White Lodge (somehow). How the sense coordinates are supposed to help him get Judy (if that's what he wants) is never explained.
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Sep 8, 2017 02:57
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:I didn't hear it either, but my bet is on that being Sarah/Judy too. She's the only character I can think of that fits the conversation, names and whatnot. There were a few things that seem important to me. Yeah, this covers my thinking on the matter. I was probably the one who kept bringing it up, and to be truthful *I* didn't "hear" evidence of the voice on the other end of the line manipulated back to sound like Sarah's. But I did do some comparisons between listening to that voice and listening to Grace Zabriskie dialogue in the bar scene, and it does sound VERY similar. Particularly when she speaks in her lower register for lines like: "Sure is a mystery, huh?" It sounds... well, like the person who Bad Cooper talked to when she says that. Imagining that voice coming through a phone (when she speaks that way) even without any pitch effects and it's believable.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:18
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Does anyone think there an argument for the entirety of the Twin Peaks world being a dream, due to the way the fabric of the dream reality seemed to start falling apart during the Sheriff's office scene? Felt very much like Mulholland Drive before Diane wakes up to me.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:51
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acksplode posted:He received two different coordinates from 3 different people (I forget exactly who gave which coordinates, that'd be a helpful recap): one that led him to a trap intended for him but that got Richard instead, and another that led him to a portal to the White Lodge, which is what he was looking for. Naido emerged from that portal because it was the Fireman putting her in the care of Andy, as part of setting up the trap for Booper and what followed. It looks like he expected that portal to take him to the Palmer house, but when he entered it the Fireman shifted the image on the projector screen from the Palmer house to the Sheriff's Dept. office, and Booper was sent there instead. The coordinates were from Ray, Jefferies, and Diane. Considering we later find out Ray and Jeffries werel working with the FBI it's safe to say they set up the electricity trap Richard walked into.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:42
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I don't know what on earth it means, but surely it can't be coincidence that Booper/Audrey offspring and the epilogue Cooper identity shared the same name.
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Sep 8, 2017 04:58
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Coincidence?
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Sep 8, 2017 05:23
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Still cracking up at Freddie just punching the poo poo out of everything in 17.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:27
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We, like Cooper, are forever trapped in the mystery.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:31
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Cephas posted:Was evil Coop actually looking for Naido? The coordinates were sending him to her, but was that just because he was being tricked by the lodges? There's something weird about Naido where I'm not sure if she was just Diane trapped in another form. She makes noises that sound like a monkey (a monkey's face whispers "Judy" in FWWM) or a bird ("where we're from, birds sing a pretty song"), and sometimes she makes sounds that distinctly sound like a crying baby. The way she just turns into Diane, it kind of makes me wonder if she was like some sort of amorphous thing that wasn't necessarily Diane but had the potential to become her. Because I don't know why evil Coop would need her if she was just Diane--presumably he already had more than enough access to Diane to be able to make a tulpa of her, among other things. The coordinates seemed like they were sending him to the Palmer house before The Fireman flipped the page and sent him to the sheriff's station instead. Hence why he appeared in the Fireman's house in a cage and when he showed up at the station, said "What is this?"
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Sep 8, 2017 05:33
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http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ This is probably the best explanation of the ending I've seen so far, or at least the one that lines up most with my own interpretation.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:34
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The full season 3 soundtracks are out on iTunes now btw. Good stuff- the one with the Roadhouse music even has James' song!
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Sep 8, 2017 05:36
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Considering that there was nothing stopping Booper from just driving up to Sarah Palmer's house in the past 25 years, if the Palmer house was his destination, I think we can only assume his destination wasn't the Palmer house but rather the Tremond/Chalfont house. Since, yeah, there's nothing mystical or special about the Palmer house besides its inhabitant. Mind you, I'm not really sure that was his ultimate goal. Just saying that if he was trying to get to that house, it definitely was the mirror universe house, not the normal one.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:36
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Considering that there was nothing stopping Booper from just driving up to Sarah Palmer's house in the past 25 years, if the Palmer house was his destination, I think we can only assume his destination wasn't the Palmer house but rather the Tremond/Chalfont house. Since, yeah, there's nothing mystical or special about the Palmer house besides its inhabitant. My take: Bad Coop was looking for Judy but didn't know who Judy had possessed (Sarah). Remember, he had the drawing of Judy and had knowledge of Judy (why else would he be looking for her?), but he asked Jeffries "who's Judy?", almost desperately. He wasn't asking who Judy the entity was, but rather whose body Judy was currently inhabiting. He went to the coordinates to enter the fireman's place to travel to wherever Judy is. Hawk mentioned that traveling via electricity/fire can be good or bad, depending on the intention behind the fire. Since bad Coop was looking for Judy, he prob believed his intention when entering the portal would take him straight to her.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:49
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Hijinks Ensue posted:I don't know what on earth it means, but surely it can't be coincidence that Booper/Audrey offspring and the epilogue Cooper identity shared the same name. That's the fun thing, once in a while they do throw in some utterly meaningless "connections" just to gently caress with us, so I wouldn't necessarily rathole on that. Unless someone has finally cracked the connection between Donna's boyfriend Mike and Mike the lodge entity. I just rewatched the last 10 minutes of episode 18, and I'm pretty sure that Cooper groping for something and asking "what year is this" isn't Cooper realizing that he's hosed up his plan to save Laura. There's nothing about the setting (either in Odessa or TP) to indicate that they are in a different year than the one he left, and nothing about what the owner of Laura's house says would indicate that either. I think that both Laura and Cooper have been living under a kind of veil that alters their understanding of reality. Cooper thinks he's back to "100%" and on a mission to save Laura and Laura thinks she is and has always been Carrie Page. In that moment, both of their illusions are ripped away. It's clear what Laura suddenly understands about her life and history, but I think Cooper is also seeing himself and his past clearly for the first time. "What year is this" isn't "how did my plan go wrong," it's him finally realizing "holy gently caress it's not 1991" for the first time.
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Sep 8, 2017 05:51
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Alan_Shore posted:I think it's a legit criticism that we have no idea what Bad Cooper's plan was. I don't think he knew what his plan was exactly tbh. Like the good Coop, the doppelgänger functions mostly off of intuition, while 'fueled by the fury of his own momentum'. All he really knows for sure is that he wants Judy (despite not knowing what Judy really is, I think it's instinct) & that he doesn't want to die/go back to the lodge. Considering he's literally not a human being, I don't think he needs any more discernible goals than instinct
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Sep 8, 2017 06:10
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El Pollo Blanco posted:Does anyone think there an argument for the entirety of the Twin Peaks world being a dream, due to the way the fabric of the dream reality seemed to start falling apart during the Sheriff's office scene? Felt very much like Mulholland Drive before Diane wakes up to me. I felt like that reflection was Cooper waking up to the reality of the 4th wall and that his world isn't the real world, but a television pastiche world. But he could only see it at that moment in truth, and only through a glass darkly, so to speak. Actually, I kinda feel like the show has been banging up against that fourth wall since the very beginning, and the business with the glass box that must be both recorded and watched. I still feel like there's something to this which involves the Theater which the Giant has. Perhaps going through that device is the one and only way to traverse worlds. I like the idea that Bad Cooper wanted the Palmer House in whatever universe we were seeing in 18. That makes a helluvalot more sense than anything else.
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Sep 8, 2017 06:11
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Considering that there was nothing stopping Booper from just driving up to Sarah Palmer's house in the past 25 years, if the Palmer house was his destination, I think we can only assume his destination wasn't the Palmer house but rather the Tremond/Chalfont house. Since, yeah, there's nothing mystical or special about the Palmer house besides its inhabitant. Being at the right spot isn't enough in Twin Peaks, it has to be the right time too.
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Sep 8, 2017 06:12
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It might even be yet another version of the palmer house, like the Jefferies teapot was at the Red Diamond Motel from FWWM, but you couldn't just walk in there in the real world, you have to go through the convenience store or the dutchman's or whatever
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Sep 8, 2017 06:26
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I don't think Bad Coop actually knew where he needed to go to find Judy, hence his obsession with getting the right coordinates. He enters the sheriff's station because the Fireman spits him out there, and he just assumed that the coordinates would take him where he needed to go. In a way, Bad Coop reminds me of Windom Earle. He was super competent when it came to dealing with other entities on his level, but he got too power hungry and gets casually destroyed by powerful forces he can't understand or control (Fireman/Judy). I have no doubt that if Bad Coop actually managed to find Judy, he would have been eviscerated pretty soon after.
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Sep 8, 2017 07:35
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what does sarah palmer/judy mean during the turkey jerky scene, when she says "your room seems different" "men are coming, you have to watch out, things can happen".
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Sep 8, 2017 08:12
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Your Parents posted:http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ This works for me.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:38
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I looked and only found this thread and the thread from 2009 linked from the OP. I went into Twin Peaks totally blind and just finished it, season 1 to season 2, on Netflix. Tonight from 5 days ago. I'm really really sad, and I have one or two questions.
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Sep 8, 2017 08:43
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Number 1, I love Audrey Horne. Number 2, why didn't Andy idiot-savant Coop back from the black lodge? Number 3, why did Josie haunt the handle of a drawer after she died, instead of regular dying? Edit: Number 4, Coop could've been lost and found if his loud boss showed up in the end, or sheriff truman's best friend who loves him, Albert. Chuds McGreedy fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 08:49
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code:
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Sep 8, 2017 09:01
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I'm unsure of a few things surrounding Bill Hastings. So Bill and Ruth go into "the zone," whichever area of the Lodge that may be, leave to get coordinates for Briggs, then return, whereupon Briggs' head disappears and other people, possibly Woodsmen, assault them demanding to know Bill's wife's name, then murder Ruth and drop Bill back home. Following this, Booper makes some deal with Bill's wife as she clearly recognizes him and his statement to her ("You follow human nature perfectly") implies she unknowingly acted according to Booper's plan. What deal did they make? It seems like Bill being setup for Ruth & Briggs' deaths was to discredit him by the Woodsmen, but why? When Ruth and Bill got the coordinates they told them to Bill's secretary, who is mentioned as being Ray's source for the coordinates and then killed by a car bomb by Jack, Booper's mechanic. They eventually kill Bill anyway, what was the purpose of keeping him alive, making a deal with Phyllis, making a very showy display of the dismembered corpses and framing Bill? Why was Dougie's wedding band in Briggs' stomach? It seems like a lot of unnecessary effort that brought a lot of unwanted attention from the FBI. If Booper made a deal with Phyllis, presumably he was working with the spirits in the Zone right? If so why wouldn't he have gotten the coordinates from Ruth's body like the FBI/Diane did? If he was involved enough with that plot to personally interact with Phyllis then why did he need Ray to get the coordinates for him? I'm slowly making sense of a lot of things as I rewatch but this plot confounds me. Also why Booper had a severed dog leg.
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Sep 8, 2017 09:29
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Something caused Dougie to take off his wedding ring and put on the owl cave ring. Briggs's investigation led him to Dougie, he found the ring and swallowed it to provide a clue after his body was found. whatever killed Ruth, I don't think Mr C was in on it. quadpus fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 09:46
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SgtScruffy posted:Has anyone brought up that the ending to the surrealist horror film "City of the Living Dead / Gates of Hell" was almost the same as the ending to Twin Peaks? It involves (do I need to spoiler?) The end of a journey, and a woman is seemingly just staring at something relatively benign, and then she has a look of horror and begins screaming, and then reality literally falls apart/shatters Thank you for this movie! That post about the bells is also excellent.
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Sep 8, 2017 10:13
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Your Parents posted:http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ This is a cool theory but it doesn't feel like something Lynch would do on a thematic level. Judy is the embodiment of evil and has always existed in some form, with the Trinity explosion disrupting the balance of good and evil and giving Judy a bigger presence on Earth. Destroying Judy means destroying evil, and I can't see Lynch writing an ending in which evil is successfully vanquished from humanity. I don't even think the Fireman's goal is to destroy Judy, just restore things to the way they were pre-Trinity (which considering the main themes of The Return, might be a futile task).
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Sep 8, 2017 10:38
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HorseRenoir posted:This is a cool theory but it doesn't feel like something Lynch would do on a thematic level. Yeah the "laura as anti-black garmonbozia bomb" seems kinda flimsy to me. Also the theory seems to fall apart about what actually summons Judy. e.g. the kids who had sex in front of the glass box got killed for having sex but not generating enough garmonbozia (despite the fact that at the moment the entity in the box was smacking the glass those kids were no doubt more terrified than they've ever been in their lives) while diane and cooper's sex scene somehow did... it just seems really flimsy
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Sep 8, 2017 11:47
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Your Parents posted:http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/ yeah its this but the author kinda ignores the 2 timeloops (by their own accord, because it doesn't interest them lol) but yeah there's two 25 year trap loops one for bob and one for judy. if you think of the the diamond symbol shaped as an 8, each diamond is one 25 year loop with the lodges in the center with cooper forever circling in and out of them to trap bob and judy with the laura bomb, lodges exist outside of time so neither bob nor judy ever go back there. the loop starts when cooper enters the black lodge for the first time and the 2nd when he saves laura. the overnight change in the cage universe is 25 years passing by in an instant. we've been watching both timelines throughout the season, that shot of the diner that changes customers right during a cut, two roadhouses (you can tell when one roadhouse is introduced with a puddle and other a wide shot) that slip over and affect some people, like audrey. audreys scenes have mostly been in the judy trap until cooper sticks a fork into the socket/or sets off the bomb and it throws her back into the coma/dead/whiteroom world. i think only cooper and laura, bob and judy are really trapped tho, there's still a main universe that continues on after this. loving harrowing for cooper, laura and diane but for the greater good? Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 12:29
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Alan_Shore posted:I think it's a legit criticism that we have no idea what Bad Cooper's plan was. we do.
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Sep 8, 2017 12:36
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