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Milky Moor posted:Anyway, apparently the novels explain it all but that seems to be a recurring issue with TFA. I have to believe that's a side-effect of TFA's rushed schedule and crazy late re-shoots and ADR / re-editing. I really feel that if Kennedy and Abrams had gotten the extra six months they begged for, it would have been a tighter movie.
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Sep 8, 2017 17:58
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Timby posted:I have to believe that's a side-effect of TFA's rushed schedule and crazy late re-shoots and ADR / re-editing. I really feel that if Kennedy and Abrams had gotten the extra six months they begged for, it would have been a tighter movie. If they had made a better movie to begin with, it also would have been a tighter movie. Edit: By which I mean, there was an entire decade between Star Warses. The purchase was in 2012. They had time to make it good, and didn't.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:01
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I really feel like they missed an opportunity to make Phasma the electric staff trooper that fights with Finn. Would have given her a cool fight scene at least.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:06
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JazzFlight posted:I really feel like they missed an opportunity to make Phasma the electric staff trooper that fights with Finn. Would have given her a cool fight scene at least.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:16
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JazzFlight posted:I really feel like they missed an opportunity to make Phasma the electric staff trooper that fights with Finn. Would have given her a cool fight scene at least. She survives because of her armor and the film continues as normal
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Sep 8, 2017 18:16
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drat that's a much better way to handle her. gives Finn a bit of a rival, too.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:37
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Electric staff trooper is a better actor and should have been given a bigger role.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:42
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sassassin posted:Electric staff trooper is a better actor and should have been given a bigger role. TR8R was the breakout character of the force awakens.
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Sep 8, 2017 18:45
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DrVenkman posted:Phasma a baffling and cynical choice to recreate another Boba Fett. Except that nothing at all about the marketing tallied up with anything in the movie. She hilariously caves in immediately and then we're supposed to think that this is some new badass character? gently caress that. Not much different from Boba Fett himself.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:38
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Boba Fett
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Sep 8, 2017 19:42
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Bongo Bill posted:Not much different from Boba Fett himself. Boba Fett gets "No disintegrations!" which is about a thousand times cooler than anything having to do with Phasma. It's just a perfectly efficient and hilarious bit of character building. He's the guy who disintegrates everyone.
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Sep 8, 2017 19:50
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Boba Fett gets "No disintegrations!" which is about a thousand times cooler than anything having to do with Phasma. It's just a perfectly efficient and hilarious bit of character building. He's the guy who disintegrates everyone. It just means he's bad at his job. How is he gonna collect the bounty on a man he can't prove he killed? Boba Fett lives on ramen.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:02
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He still lives in his dad's ship.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:10
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Instant Sunrise posted:TR8R was the breakout character of the force awakens. He was one of the few actual characters in the movie, yeah. It's amazing what happens when you give someone an actual emotional motivation for conflict.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:28
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Snoke is TR-8R!!!
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Sep 8, 2017 20:45
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It's always fun in a movie when a random faceless mook gives the hero a hard time. I can't think of any other examples right now but it's definitely fun. Edit: Maybe that older German soldier in the truck in Indiana Jones 3?
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Sep 8, 2017 21:04
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JazzFlight posted:I really feel like they missed an opportunity to make Phasma the electric staff trooper that fights with Finn. Would have given her a cool fight scene at least. IIRC from what I have read when Force Awakens was being made, at that point they planned for her to have a pretty big role in what is now The Last Jedi and she was never intended to be around much in Force Awakens. But because they decided not to go with the Resistance having a shield piercing saucer kind of super-weapon ship which would have been used to get the Falcon/etc. fighters onto the Starkiller planet, they threw her in that additional scene where they hold her up to lower the shield. So now Phasma as a character is in this weird territory where she's around more than Boba Fett was in Empire, but still inconsequential and weak like Boba Fett was in Jedi.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:25
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porfiria posted:It's always fun in a movie when a random faceless mook gives the hero a hard time. I can't think of any other examples right now but it's definitely fun. The big bald German soldier in the first and the big burly child slaver in the second movie, too. They both beat the poo poo out of Indie.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:49
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Boba Fett is the Star Wars equivalent of that swordsman in Raiders of the Lost Ark who got shot because Harrison Ford had to poo poo.
Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 21:52
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Grendels Dad posted:The big bald German soldier in the first and the big burly child slaver in the second movie, too. They both beat the poo poo out of Indie. Yeah but I mean even those guys have some visual stuff going on indicating they're like a sub boss or whatever. I'm talking dudes that look like the director just pulled them from the background one day.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:54
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So the conclusion is that I'm getting at is that zombie Han Solo is going to RKO Phasma out of nowhere.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:56
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I thought the random ninja stormtrooper was one of the The Raid guys but apparently not?
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Sep 8, 2017 22:00
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sassassin posted:I thought the random ninja stormtrooper was one of the The Raid guys but apparently not? I thought the Raid guys were the ones who boarded the freighter to bust Han for money.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:02
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Milky Moor posted:I thought Cassian had a bit of depth, but that came down to how well Diego Luna portrayed him, not so much the script. Jyn might've been interesting in the original cut of the film but, well, she's a bit uneven in it as is. I'm really not set on Rey, Finn or Poe at all. All three of them feel like blank ciphers that we're supposed to imprint ourselves onto (and I still don't like their names, I think TFA was just abominable at names). What makes Rogue One actually work is that the characters are built up by visual association instead of through dialogue. After the prologue, where Jyn is saved by the Insurgents, Jyn is very briefly (re-)introduced in prison. Then we cut to Cassian in a slummy market at the 'bottom' of this place:  Cassian's basic mission is to get the info and climb out of there, right? But note the imagery: there's nowhere to climb to. He'll just end up in the same place. Just by intercutting these scenes, the movie establishes part of why Jyn left the insurgency, and how Cassian 'carries his prison with him.'
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Sep 8, 2017 22:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What makes Rogue One actually work is that the characters are built up by visual association instead of through dialogue. Very cool, SMG. I do think R1 rewards more watching, in that sense. Like, the little flicker of emotion that crosses Cassian's face after he shoots the informant. He'll kill when he has to ("for the Rebellion") but doesn't like doing it -- so it's really no surprise when he doesn't kill Galen. He does a lot of rising and falling and climbing throughout the film, but always comes back to the same place. That of the bitter grown-old child soldier.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:30
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Timby posted:I thought the Raid guys were the ones who boarded the freighter to bust Han for money. With them doing choreography for the movie in general it could easily be both.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:05
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I couldn't buy Cassian as a tough guy at all. He just looks soft. Weak. Big teary eyes and lip a moment from quivering.
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Sep 9, 2017 12:27
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sassassin posted:I couldn't buy Cassian as a tough guy at all. He just looks soft. Weak. Big teary eyes and lip a moment from quivering. That's part of his character, the way I see it. He's a soft man trying desperately to be tough to survive in a hard world. If was as hard as he claimed to be, he would have killed Galen, he wouldn't have helped Jyn. He had just spent years trying to bury his good nature and act purely "in the interest of the rebellion", despite being obviously personally opposed to the darker aspects of that job.
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Sep 9, 2017 12:41
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I came back to the star war thread just to say that I'm glad the guy who wrote and directed Jurassic World of all things won't be allowed to do the last movie It was a bad movie
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Sep 9, 2017 13:07
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jivjov posted:That's part of his character, the way I see it. He's a soft man trying desperately to be tough to survive in a hard world. If was as hard as he claimed to be, he would have killed Galen, he wouldn't have helped Jyn. He had just spent years trying to bury his good nature and act purely "in the interest of the rebellion", despite being obviously personally opposed to the darker aspects of that job. Makes sense as he and Jyn were the Disney versions of Kyle Katarn and Jan Orso.
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Sep 9, 2017 15:44
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What the hell is a Kyle Katarn and why is it always brought up?
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Sep 9, 2017 16:22
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UmOk posted:What the hell is a Kyle Katarn and why is it always brought up? He was the protagonist of Dark Forces, a video game about stealing the Death Star plans. His copilot was named Jan Ors, and its long been speculated that Jyn Erso's name was picked to aurally resemble Jan's.
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Sep 9, 2017 16:23
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jivjov posted:He was the protagonist of Dark Forces, a video game about stealing the Death Star plans. His copilot was named Jan Ors, and its long been speculated that Jyn Erso's name was picked to aurally resemble Jan's. I thought Manny Bothans stole the plans?
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Sep 9, 2017 16:27
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UmOk posted:I thought Manny Bothans stole the plans? That was the second Death Star.
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Sep 9, 2017 16:33
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Also the plans for the first Death Star was stolen by like six different groups in various unconnected EU material, to the point that someone later wrote another EU fiction explaining that each group were stealing a different portion of the plans. I always figured that Kanan in Rebels was inspired by Katarn. Their names sound similar and they sort of dress alike.  Jedi Knight is where I first know Kyle. Those cutscenes will be stuck in my head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmD-HlPAVTw
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Sep 9, 2017 16:57
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Yeah; everyone wanted to tell the story of the theft of the plans. It got rather silly by the end of Legends
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Sep 9, 2017 16:59
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Cassian and Jyn are an interesting pair of counterparts. Both recruited as child soldiers, instilled with a hatred of the Empire and a willingness to carry out extreme acts in the fight against it, but also seeking something to fight for, not just against. Jyn reacts by becoming disillusioned and withdrawing from the whole fight, while Cassian doubles down and becomes the good little soldier doing the Rebellion's dirty work. Their respective arcs are about them finding their cause. Jyn is obviously inspired by her father, but Cassian's "good Rebel" facade also gives her something of a model that she later uses to inspire him in turn to be the man he wants to be. The "rebellions are built on hope" line, for instance, is repurposed from a sarcastic aside to a genuine inspirational speech.
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 17:17
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That's the thing about Rogue One and criticisms that the characters and their respective experiences are under-defined. Characters aren't just islands, they reflect upon one another. As SMG has pointed out, Cassian's experience reflects upon aspects of Jyn's experience that aren't explicitly shown, and that's not the only area in which Rogue One plays with this sense of duality. Indeed, the whole film is built rather overtly around duality. The most obvious example is Chirrut and Baze (the faith of the former bringing the latter out of his cynicism), Kay and Bodhi (both participants in the struggle who were formerly imperial soldiers who became 're-programmed' to fight for the rebellion), Saw and Galen (both father-figures as well as doomed subversives within their respective political spheres). Even the 'fan service' in the movie is explicitly dualistic: Artoo and Threepio, the two mooks who escape the genocide on Jedha only to be made examples by Obi-Wan, the CGI-realized Tarkin and Leia. And, of course, the whole movie is about the problematic duality between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance, that the overly pragmatic concerns of the latter betray how they'll inevitably succumb to the corruption that spawned the former.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:35
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K. Waste posted:That's the thing about Rogue One and criticisms that the characters and their respective experiences are under-defined. Characters aren't just islands, they reflect upon one another. As SMG has pointed out, Cassian's experience reflects upon aspects of Jyn's experience that aren't explicitly shown, and that's not the only area in which Rogue One plays with this sense of duality. Indeed, the whole film is built rather overtly around duality. The most obvious example is Chirrut and Baze (the faith of the former bringing the latter out of his cynicism), Kay and Bodhi (both participants in the struggle who were formerly imperial soldiers who became 're-programmed' to fight for the rebellion), Saw and Galen (both father-figures as well as doomed subversives within their respective political spheres). Even the 'fan service' in the movie is explicitly dualistic: Artoo and Threepio, the two mooks who escape the genocide on Jedha only to be made examples by Obi-Wan, the CGI-realized Tarkin and Leia. Okay but also the movie was really boring.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:43
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Okay but also the movie was really boring. Diff' strokes, mate. I found the duality between characters and partisans in Rogue One very nuanced and compelling, if understated. It was also really well shot. It's easy to declare a movie boring if you have demonstratively zero interest in what's going on and how it's presented. Me, I'm not at all sick of all these star wars. They can still be good.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:01
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