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emanresu tnuocca posted:So what's the hand wavy explanation for the iron bank being willing to give Cersei more gold? Are they so unaware of the fact that Cersei pillaged highgarden and that's the only reason she suddenly has a large sum of cash lying around and that she's not going to be able to produce such sums in the future? her and her house have been shirking on payments since Robert's time, assuming she paid all existing debt at once that sum would be astronomic, and the only reason for her to do that is if the iron bank would be willing to give her even more money, which makes absolutely no sense, and really if she's already holding such a massive sum of money why not just use it to simply hire the golden company? if she doesnt pay it back they hire someone to pillage her
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Sep 8, 2017 20:45
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is the braavosi army pretty good or are they avoiding invasion and reprisal with just some faceless men and geographic isolation i mean bookwise because obviously the tv show wouldn't consider something like a medieval bank vulnerable to a pissed off king surviving an overthrow and going for that bank.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:56
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Just watched Syrio Forel beat the poo poo out of some Lannisters with a wooden sword so I'm gonna go with "badass army"
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Sep 8, 2017 20:58
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I think they have an excellent navy and can just hire the best sellswords if they need to.
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Sep 8, 2017 20:59
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I figured they would hire one of the faceless men in the event a payment went unpaid too long.
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Sep 8, 2017 21:32
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Taear posted:As we all know, the death of a leader makes that cause instantly vanish. By show logic if they'd just stabbed Cersei when they had their big meeting everything would have been sorted and fine and nobody would have minded. nah, some long lost Lannister could just show up and be like "Train me 50.000 knights stat!!"
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Sep 8, 2017 21:47
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emanresu tnuocca posted:So what's the hand wavy explanation for the iron bank being willing to give Cersei more gold? Are they so unaware of the fact that Cersei pillaged highgarden and that's the only reason she suddenly has a large sum of cash lying around and that she's not going to be able to produce such sums in the future? her and her house have been shirking on payments since Robert's time, assuming she paid all existing debt at once that sum would be astronomic, and the only reason for her to do that is if the iron bank would be willing to give her even more money, which makes absolutely no sense, and really if she's already holding such a massive sum of money why not just use it to simply hire the golden company? It's called refinancing. It's when you pay back your loan and take out a new loan in the exact same amount, runtime and interest. At the same bank. It's all very technical, you wouldn't understand  basic hitler posted:is the braavosi army pretty good or are they avoiding invasion and reprisal with just some faceless men and geographic isolation There are a lot of real, historical examples in Renaissance Italy of how powerful city states operated and ensured their security. That's probably what GRRM was going for.
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Sep 8, 2017 22:07
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basic hitler posted:is the braavosi army pretty good or are they avoiding invasion and reprisal with just some faceless men and geographic isolation Put it this way, Westoros is in the medival era and Braavos is in the Renasiance. They have shipyards and all kind of things that Westorosi don't use the worlds largest navy and I think at one point they mention Braavos could easily field twice of Westoros's combined navy and still have stuff left over. That's not even counting There's clearly some going on with the faceless men and the bank and the fact that most of the faceless men aren't even in the house of black and white it's like a rest stop with a skeketon crew in the books.
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Sep 8, 2017 23:10
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SirKibbles posted:Put it this way, Westoros is in the medival era and Braavos is in the Renasiance. They have shipyards and all kind of things that Westorosi don't use the worlds largest navy and I think at one point they mention Braavos could easily field twice of Westoros's combined navy and still have stuff left over. That's not even counting There's clearly some going on with the faceless men and the bank and the fact that most of the faceless men aren't even in the house of black and white it's like a rest stop with a skeketon crew in the books. That iron fleet got built real fast without shipyards
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Sep 8, 2017 23:44
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esperterra posted:I figured they would hire one of the faceless men in the event a payment went unpaid too long. The Iron Bank may not be able/willing to afford them since the FM charge based off of what the buyer is willing to sacrifice/pay.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:18
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lifts cats over head posted:The Iron Bank may not be able/willing to afford them since the FM charge based off of what the buyer is willing to sacrifice/pay. I'm sure the FM give them a rate so that they can get an extra .25 off their fixed rate mortgages.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:37
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The FM probably get free unquestioned travel and other preferential services in exchange for a few names a year
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Sep 9, 2017 02:40
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I can't think of any other piece of media that so many goons insist "is" good as some kind of objective truth like they do with GRRM's books. It's a weird hill to die on. In most threads, when people say "I don't like thing", everyone knows that's a personal preference. Any time someone says "The books are bad" there's a mad rush to post "actually, they're good". It's bizarre.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:48
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precision posted:I can't think of any other piece of media that so many goons insist "is" good as some kind of objective truth like they do with GRRM's books. It's a weird hill to die on. In most threads, when people say "I don't like thing", everyone knows that's a personal preference. Any time someone says "The books are bad" there's a mad rush to post "actually, they're good". It's bizarre. I haven't noticed it being different from any piece of media people will defend. In fact it seems like the opposite, where most goons are like me. They got into the books because they had interesting ideas and insights and were different from normal fantasy but when we look back, reading them was a mostly bad experience.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:57
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precision posted:I can't think of any other piece of media that so many goons insist "is" good as some kind of objective truth like they do with GRRM's books. It's a weird hill to die on. In most threads, when people say "I don't like thing", everyone knows that's a personal preference. Any time someone says "The books are bad" there's a mad rush to post "actually, they're good". It's bizarre. Try saying that Steven Universe is a stupid kids show with no more depth to it than old episodes of He-Man. You'll see a similar rush.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:57
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Solice Kirsk posted:Try saying that Steven Universe is a stupid kids show with no more depth to it than old episodes of He-Man. You'll see a similar rush. Not having seen any episode, I saw a youtube clip where the main steven universe sings a song about how he wishes his surrogate mom was 30 feet tall for horny purposes. That's some depth, I am baffled by it, I don't agree with it, but goddamn that's a lot going on there. What episode did orko sing about how he wishes the sorceress was inflated so he could nut?
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Sep 9, 2017 03:03
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precision posted:I can't think of any other piece of media that so many goons insist "is" good as some kind of objective truth like they do with GRRM's books. It's a weird hill to die on. In most threads, when people say "I don't like thing", everyone knows that's a personal preference. Any time someone says "The books are bad" there's a mad rush to post "actually, they're good". It's bizarre. I really don't think it's that odd. Nobody will fly off the handle if you say "I don't like GoT", they will say "I do like GoT" or at worst "I don't like you". If you say "GoT is bad" you are phrasing your personal preference as an objective truth, obviously that is going to lead other people to do the exact same thing and say "it is good". Garbage in garbage out, much like my posting.
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Sep 9, 2017 03:04
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Well I meant more the people who say "The books are bad, but I enjoy the show". And then people fly off the handle because they don't understand that it's possible to dislike a book for being poorly-written no matter how kickin' rad the plot in said book is. For example, I loved the plot of Stephenson's Seveneves, but hated the dry technical-manual style of writing he tried in it. It's possible to dislike a book for the quality of the prose even if you like the plot, and vice versa. It seems to me that some goons defend the books solely on the events that happen in them and can't compute that it's possible to dislike the writing itself. The door swings both ways, too. I mean, The Iron Dragon's Daughter is hands-down the best "fantasy" novel I've ever read - but it has almost no coherent plot until literally the last two pages out of 500-ish. But the writing sustains it for the crazy ride that it is.
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Sep 9, 2017 03:15
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Krinkle posted:Not having seen any episode, I saw a youtube clip where the main steven universe sings a song about how he wishes his surrogate mom was 30 feet tall for horny purposes. That's some depth, I am baffled by it, I don't agree with it, but goddamn that's a lot going on there. I think in the one where Skeletor's plan backfires.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:14
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your observation is way the hell off, people challenge that stuff in threads all the time because honestly, argument is fun, and people watch this show for different reasons, maybe hatewatching at this point, but this is the spoiler thread, meaning a lot of people who read five (5); V books in this series and would read more if they existed. they dont hate these books. on some fundamental level they enjoy it, maybe because they enjoy pain. and they assume anyone coming into a thread like this to talk about how bad the books are is looking for a discussion, not a driveby shitpost to sagely nod at.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLhcdapmqg Fun watch (at least till the "write your own fanfiction" part. pls don't follow this advise) but the titanic metaphor juxtaposed with the wight hunting party had me dieing of laughter.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:37
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Lycus posted:Not that it really made sense that the Iron Bank was willing to back the loser stuck in the middle of nowhere in the book. It was very different though, in the books Cersei refuses to pay the Iron Bank so they turn to Stannis under the terms that he will also take on Robert's debt. It's not a "pay some gold, get even more gold" situation it's a "take money, pay us a whole lot more if you win" gamble.
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Sep 9, 2017 07:14
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It was very different though, in the books Cersei refuses to pay the Iron Bank so they turn to Stannis under the terms that he will also take on Robert's debt. It's not a "pay some gold, get even more gold" situation it's a "take money, pay us a whole lot more if you win" gamble. This actually makes a lot of sense. Certainly more convincing than "look at my finger stubs, he cut them off he's super serious about being fair."
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Sep 9, 2017 07:32
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The books generally make a lot more sense, and when they don't GRRM hides it much better through the ambiguous\unreliable-POV nature of the story telling. GRRM is a loving genius, did I already say?
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Sep 9, 2017 08:16
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precision posted:I can't think of any other piece of media that so many goons insist "is" good as some kind of objective truth like they do with GRRM's books. It's a weird hill to die on. In most threads, when people say "I don't like thing", everyone knows that's a personal preference. Any time someone says "The books are bad" there's a mad rush to post "actually, they're good". It's bizarre. It's almost like there are objective criteria on which you can evaluate the quality of a piece of creative writing or any other product of human labor.
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Sep 9, 2017 08:17
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Who is this "Kelly C?" I'm not getting the joke.
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Sep 9, 2017 10:05
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Who is this "Kelly C?" I'm not getting the joke. I think its this 4chan thing, or something about someones dad not remembering the characters names? perhaps it was a different meme. https://imgur.com/gallery/lM6Jb Edit: I was confusing the dad name thing with Stennis and King of the Guys http://imgur.com/a/11bIw auzdark fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 10:18
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Who is this "Kelly C?" I'm not getting the joke. Say it out aloud.
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Sep 9, 2017 10:52
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Say it out aloud. 
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Sep 9, 2017 14:32
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since it was mentioned and even defended in this thread i wanna say stephen universe is insanely bad! game of thrones season 1-4 are GOOD and the books are GOOD!!!!
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Sep 9, 2017 14:43
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I dunno, as far as storytelling goes, we've been doing it long enough that even though in the end its subjective, there are some established methods for identifying a "good" story, and the books (at least 1-3) hit enough of those ticks squarely enough that you really need to make an argument for why they're bad or you sound kind of dense. Like, there's a fully-detailed world with lots of organic nods to history outside the scope of the novels, there are nuanced characters that buck the typical archetypes and still seem very believable, there's an epic plot that plays out consistently and with subtleties and mysteries that continue through multiple books... I mean, you can't just say "lol they're so bad" without it seeming like all of that just flew over your head. You can certainly say that you don't like them, but to say they're just garbage requires some sort of explanation besides haha lemoncakes.
Phenotype fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 15:32
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The fifth book is really bad though, and you need to get really creative to argue otherwise. People are split on four (I kinda liked it even though it was very different) but I don't think many people are seriously saying that books 1-3 weren't pretty drat good.
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Sep 9, 2017 15:55
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Book 5 would have been a hell of a lot better received if the Battle for Mereen or the Ice Battle were actually in it.
Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 16:01
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Could be, but the book was still a mess. Tyrion's entire arc was bad, what with Penny (I think? God, who cares) and JonCon just sitting there waiting to overcomplicate endgame and the fake drowning. I'm not the only Tyrion fan who could barely make it through that dreck, and I think I only did it out of stubbornness. It's also where book Dorne went from pretty cool and interesting to  -style off the rails.Jon gets another fake death, and the Winterfell battle would have resolved it but it was still cheap, lazy writing. The Meereen stuff was decent by comparison, and it hurts me to say that. The Iron Islands stuff was okay, the plot is alright but there's something in how GRRM writes it that makes it a chore to get through. There's an argument to be had there as I know there are people who truly liked it. The plot is pure metal. Just, the writing was bad. Theon was the one actually good thing in there. I will give it that. I liked the Ramsey Winterfell stuff.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:12
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I always forget about the adventures of Tyrion and Penny and how long it took me to drag myself through those chapters.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:25
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If "oh I know let's give him a girl dwarf to play with" isn't the thought of a author running on empty, I don't know what is.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:35
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Propaganda Machine posted:If "oh I know let's give him a girl dwarf to play with" isn't the thought of a author running on empty, I don't know what is. I think it was more of him having to come to grips with what he really is in society rather than his superficial understanding from his heightened status. The whole trip is his worldview being decimated and rebuilt. This girl wants to be with him because that's what's expected. He had higher hopes previous but now that's the best he's got. It was written with twice as many words as needed but it's not an illogical character arc. Lords being brought low to face the common folk on their terms is a pretty common theme in the latter books.
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Sep 9, 2017 17:55
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It was poorly executed.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:03
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TK-42-1 posted:I think it was more of him having to come to grips with what he really is in society rather than his superficial understanding from his heightened status. The whole trip is his worldview being decimated and rebuilt. This girl wants to be with him because that's what's expected. He had higher hopes previous but now that's the best he's got. It was written with twice as many words as needed but it's not an illogical character arc. Lords being brought low to face the common folk on their terms is a pretty common theme in the latter books. If I can't get Tyrion/Sansa I want him to end up with Penny.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:05
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She's probably his daughter at least so that's something. She was super annoying though.
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Sep 9, 2017 18:06
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