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though now i'm curious as to who anarchists think was at kronstadt in 1921
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Sep 9, 2017 03:54
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Raskolnikov38 posted:though now i'm curious as to who anarchists think was at kronstadt in 1921 hey dont put this one on the anarchists lol
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Sep 9, 2017 03:55
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jarofpiss posted:i still havent read the fetonte letter because nobody posted anything funny from it "Many of the new leaders do not think Bernie is a real socialist"
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Sep 9, 2017 03:56
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i mean that guy actually suggested reading a book
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Sep 9, 2017 03:56
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someone please explain to me how a cop is not okay but a soldier is
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Sep 9, 2017 03:56
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Al! posted:i mean that guy actually suggested reading a book
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Sep 9, 2017 03:58
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KomradeX posted:But it must be done, considering how reactionary the military is, we need comrades on outside in the institution that could crush us like bugs The U.S. military's #1 priority above everything else is protecting the reputation of the U.S. military in the eyes of Americans (gently caress all the rest of y'all). That's how senior officers see it because they are aware of the post-Vietnam era and know their reputation is much more fragile than it looks. All of this means the military will, I think, avoid domestic political chaos like the floor is lava. So people fearing the military coming after them shouldn't worry, in my view, but the military won't save them, either. This goes for liberals who've been bizarrely hoping for a military coup against Trump as well for the far right who think (mistakenly) that the military is on their side and would come bail them out in a pinch. Anyways I don't know who this soldier is but he's walking a fine line by speaking on behalf of a caucus in a partisan political organization. If he actually got elected to the NPC, say, that would cross a line and he'd be drummed out. If he hasn't crossed a line already. But that's his problem not mine. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 04:12 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 03:59
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jarofpiss posted:someone please explain to me how a cop is not okay but a soldier is As far as I know neither are banned from the org, and never have been in its decades-long existence.
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Sep 9, 2017 03:59
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jarofpiss posted:someone please explain to me how a cop is not okay but a soldier is because they're not in a party leadership role? *cue half of the NPC being revealed as active duty*
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Sep 9, 2017 03:59
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jarofpiss posted:someone please explain to me how a cop is not okay but a soldier is i refuse, comrade
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Sep 9, 2017 03:59
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Thug Lessons posted:As far as I know neither are banned from the org, and never have been in its decades-long existence. true but we're working on becoming an actually leftist org as evidenced by the fetonte backlash
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Sep 9, 2017 04:01
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Raskolnikov38 posted:because they're not in a party leadership role? the other half is cops
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Sep 9, 2017 04:01
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i will take a stand and say that it's okay for firefighters to be in dsa
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Sep 9, 2017 04:02
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jarofpiss posted:i still havent read the fetonte letter because nobody posted anything funny from it I'm not sure it was even written by Danny. Not mad enough
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Sep 9, 2017 04:03
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i command a squad of drone operators but it's cool because im not on the npc
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Sep 9, 2017 04:04
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jarofpiss posted:i command a squad of drone operators but it's cool because im not on the npc https://www.wired.com/story/houston-recovery-drones/ I thought community organized drone squads were a good thing
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Sep 9, 2017 04:08
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Arguing about whether troops or cops are worse with people on the internet is probably the least productive thing to do in an org. Maybe shoot the VWG an e-mail and ask what their stance on active duty officers are and why they had one act as their spokesperson. Speaking on behalf of a national working group is not the same as being on national leadership, but it's also different than just being any dues paying member (for which there really is no barrier to entry right now), so it might be worth an ask, but half the problem of this whole Danny situation was people assuming the worst to start (and then Danny himself torpedo'ing any possible support through his extremely hilarious and bad reaction to it.) It's a loving national multi-tendency organization, maybe people will disagree with you about what is leftist or not, but having watched the local IWW chapter here get swallowed up by leftists who wanted to do nothing better than gather a bunch of people and then castigate them for not being anarchist enough before loving off to do whatever, I'm pretty tired of this show. Maybe talk to the people involved instead of around them. Tricky Dick Nixon has issued a correction as of 04:15 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 04:10
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But Their Emails
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Sep 9, 2017 04:11
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:Arguing about whether troops or cops are worse with people on the internet is probably the least productive thing to do in an org. Maybe shoot the VWG an e-mail and ask what their stance on active duty officers are and why they had one act as their spokesperson. Speaking on behalf of a national working group is not the same as being on national leadership, but it's also different than just being any dues paying member (for which there really is no barrier to entry right now), so it might be worth an ask, but half the problem of this whole Danny situation was people assuming the worst to start (and then Danny himself torpedo'ing any possible support through his extremely hilarious and bad reaction to it.) i think jarofpiss is being kind of a funny dick and also most people dont have super strong opinions about this
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Sep 9, 2017 04:13
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rip new dsa, thought of a labor union and died
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Sep 9, 2017 04:14
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at least danny quitting ends the drama as quickly as possible, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of to what extent national is/should be accountable seems like it's a bad idea to let twitter people effectively run an org, by harassing people they don't like until they post their epic meltdowns/drive through orders
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Sep 9, 2017 04:16
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Al! posted:i think jarofpiss is being kind of a funny dick and also most people dont have super strong opinions about this it's me I'm the one red and nude and mad and I will never log off I more or less had this conversation IRL about the state of affairs for the local IWW chapter so I came in pretty hot because more or less something very similar happened on a much more micro scale and it's a tendency that makes me see red.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:16
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:Arguing about whether troops or cops are worse with people on the internet is probably the least productive thing to do in an org. Maybe shoot the VWG an e-mail and ask what their stance on active duty officers are and why they had one act as their spokesperson. Was this guy their spokesperson for anything? Because as near as I can tell someone found some article where he was identified in a bio as a member of DSA and a member of VWG e: like this is the smoking gun? 
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Sep 9, 2017 04:17
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I was just saying that as lovely as some online iww discourse can be, it's no substitute for the delicious fresh dsa drama served up daily Also when will someone make an iww thread already
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Sep 9, 2017 04:17
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rudatron posted:at least danny quitting ends the drama as quickly as possible, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of to what extent national is/should be accountable, because it's a bad idea to let twitter people to effecitvely run an org, by getting harassing people they don't like until they post their epic meltdowns/drive throughs The DSA Accountability task force did a lot of great work to outline amendments for transparency as well as a recall procedure. We've decided to not call for a special convention since the political will was originally because of Fetonte, but all of the drafted amendments are going to be posted to the public in preparation for 2019 and we'll keep working with and for more ways to hold national accountable. From within the NPC, there's a lot of talk about how to create better communication infrastructure, but I've yet to see anything actionable.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:18
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i'm sure the soldiers soviets had absolutely no role what so ever in the russian revolutions this is extremely disingenuous. the russian soldiers who took part in the revolution were workers and peasants themselves who were mostly conscripts. I'm not saying that there isn't the potential for many currently and formerly serving US armed forces personnel to radicalize and become revolutionary but to compare the present day all volunteer US armed forces to the WW1 russian army in terms of their revolutionary potential is ridiculous
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Sep 9, 2017 04:19
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rudatron posted:at least danny quitting ends the drama as quickly as possible, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of to what extent national is/should be accountable doesn't this rather mean that Being Mad Online actually works though?
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Sep 9, 2017 04:19
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:The DSA Accountability task force did a lot of great work to outline amendments for transparency as well as a recall procedure. We've decided to not call for a special convention since the political will was originally because of Fetonte, but all of the drafted amendments are going to be posted to the public in preparation for 2019 and we'll keep working with and for more ways to hold national accountable. Isnt it just as well to keep calling for a virtual special convention? I have barely been active there, but it's a bad look if it can be painted as targeting a specific person, and lol if you don't think at least one other npc member will gently caress up in the next two years
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Sep 9, 2017 04:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:doesn't this rather mean that Being Mad Online actually works though? DIRECT ACTION WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sep 9, 2017 04:21
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:The DSA Accountability task force did a lot of great work to outline amendments for transparency as well as a recall procedure. We've decided to not call for a special convention since the political will was originally because of Fetonte, but all of the drafted amendments are going to be posted to the public in preparation for 2019 and we'll keep working with and for more ways to hold national accountable.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:21
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Was this guy their spokesperson for anything? Because as near as I can tell someone found some article where he was identified in a bio as a member of DSA and a member of VWG Yeah taking a second look at this he's not even working as a spokesperson for them, just a member of their caucus, so you can ask the question as to why an anti-imperialist veterans group is accepting an active serving officer in their ranks, but it's fundamentally a different question than a national leadership member having worked for and having sympathies with cop unions.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:21
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i think it is going to make a lot of serious ppl furious so im going to start referring to being a dick 2 ppl on twitter "direct action" now
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Sep 9, 2017 04:21
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deadgoon posted:rip new dsa, thought of a labor union and died
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Sep 9, 2017 04:22
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gradenko_2000 posted:doesn't this rather mean that Being Mad Online actually works though?
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Sep 9, 2017 04:23
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i actually dont think we should allow cops or active duty troops in dsa im just sniping back because of ace of baes being a (former?) troop coming in with his fetonte posts and now we have a vwg with an active duty troop in it (and i find that kind of funny and ironical) i am honestly way to busy to sincerely argue about troops or cops and i should be going to bed. getting up at 4:30 to lead dsa demo teams into houses so this isnt really that high of a priority for me right now
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Sep 9, 2017 04:23
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Here's an opinion. Yeah looking back, Danny should've been forthright and upfront about his background. I dunno in my experience not being an uber-leftist is fine if you're just honest with what you're about and what you believe when you're around uber-leftists. That's what you should do anyways regardless to anyone. When I met the local DSA here I got asked what I thought about socialism, and I said, socialism to me is about human brotherhood, and capitalism makes liars out of everyone. I've never read much Marx and don't think I find it personally all that necessary. I like Orwell and Barbara Ehrenreich. They're like ok awesome. So there!
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Sep 9, 2017 04:23
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apropos to nothing posted:this is extremely disingenuous. the russian soldiers who took part in the revolution were workers and peasants themselves who were mostly conscripts. I'm not saying that there isn't the potential for many currently and formerly serving US armed forces personnel to radicalize and become revolutionary but to compare the present day all volunteer US armed forces to the WW1 russian army in terms of their revolutionary potential is ridiculous who do you think the average grunt is
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Sep 9, 2017 04:23
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apokaladle posted:Isnt it just as well to keep calling for a virtual special convention? I have barely been active there, but it's a bad look if it can be painted as targeting a specific person, and lol if you don't think at least one other npc member will gently caress up in the next two years I wasn't in on the meeting tonight where they decided to table the rest of the amendments, including the recall procedure, because I was doing some solidarity work with the local DREAM Act org here in Tulsa, but I believe the reasoning was that there was a huge amount of parliamentarians that were going to resist the special convention being virtual, even virtual it was going to be costly in time and effort, and a lot of the allies in different chapters were energized by the refusal of Fetonte to resign. So everything we worked on is still going to be put out there, but it's like, the iron isn't there. If another NPC member fucks up, we have all the tools and the group to push for a recall convention without the weeks of work that went into this one. It's not going away.
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Sep 9, 2017 04:24
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when u think about it @antifa-ntasia posting "@dsa_fresno log off cop #direct_action #nocopsnohow" every 20 minutes is one of the strongest forms of socialist self-criticism we have
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Sep 9, 2017 04:25
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Was this guy their spokesperson for anything? Because as near as I can tell someone found some article where he was identified in a bio as a member of DSA and a member of VWG this is twitter court and i say guilty as charged
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Sep 9, 2017 04:25
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