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orb truther posted:*checks in to DSA thread, sees that I'm evil now Hail Satan for real tho.
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Sep 10, 2017 14:20
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R. Guyovich posted:if you shy away from taking positions on the grounds that some people might be alienated then why bother being a radical I'm not shying away from positions that might be alienating, I think refusing to allow vets into the org is a really bad idea, especially when DSA as it stands is largely white middle class
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Sep 10, 2017 14:25
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R. Guyovich posted:do you sincerely think that statement applied to all positions a radical could possibly have, all the time i thought that's what you were doing in your response so now i'm double confused. i wrote that when i was pretty high and saw all the "no vets" posts
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Sep 10, 2017 14:55
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Business Gorillas posted:imo the biggest strength of DSA is that we're just regular fuckin people mad about income inequality and single payer as opposed to some version of the leftist caricature that loves to brew in campus culture give it time
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Sep 10, 2017 15:00
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orb truther posted:*checks in to DSA thread, sees that I'm evil now Should have thought of that before you became a cop, Mr. Fentonte. 
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Sep 10, 2017 15:10
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i'm sure the soldiers soviets had absolutely no role what so ever in the russian revolutions please stop causing category 5 hurricanes with this take
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Sep 10, 2017 15:18
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I will never log off
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Sep 10, 2017 15:20
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https://twitter.com/iskrarev/status/906631606374461440
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Sep 10, 2017 15:22
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fetonte quit? lol
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Sep 10, 2017 15:38
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I think the issue is maybe made more clear if we stop grouping all service members together. I'd prolly split them into two types: enlisted individuals who are there for school, work, opportunity, etc. and careerists who see the armed forces as a path for advancement. the former definitely have revolutionary potential so long as they are able to recognize the problems of american imperialism and their potential contributions to it, the latter not so much because that understanding would get in the way of their advancement. the latter still could but it's a choice they have to make, can't do both. I know a local activist who is also a labor historian. he was part of a special forces unit (not sure which branch) stationed in latin america during the late 70s/early 80s. he became a labor activist because of his direct experiences seeing and participating in american imperialism first hand. I don't hold that against him and I consider him a comrade and ally. I don't think it's a case that soldiers are a lost cause or something, but there is a hurdle they have to get over of recognizing their service as a negative thing. for many that's not an issue but there are also many soldiers who supported bernie and universal healthcare and would prolly describe themselves as socialists but who still see their military service in a positive light. those people aren't like lost causes or something but it is something that prevents them from being socialists. being a socialist after all means desiring the replacement of capitalism via political revolution with a new form of social, economic, and political existence. someone who wants universal healthcare or a higher minimum wage but who still sees the US army as something good or noble is not a socialist because the US army actively works to prevent the creation of a new socialist society. doesn't mean they can't learn that fact, or can't be allies, or can't change. I'm actually a big proponent of allowing non-socialists into socialist orgs with the aim of helping to educate and radicalize them through engaging in class struggle. I don't think it's productive at all to keep anyone who isn't "pure" or "left" enough or whatever out, it's actually destructive to the movement. it's also important not to stake out the most far left or righteous political line for the sake of being correct - positions should always strive to bring the maximum number of people into class struggle as possible. it's still important though to recognize when views are counter to your stated goal and make sure people are reaching a correct understanding and not just brushing what might seem like a small disagreement under the rug; because ultimately it's not a small disagreement, it's a difference that points to a fundamental contradiction between their aims and yours/the orgs.
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Sep 10, 2017 16:01
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You could call it the Smedly Butler rule.
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Sep 10, 2017 16:04
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Pretty crazy that Marxism-Leninism-Maoism-Fetonte-Unruhe Thought has become the official line of the DSA
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Sep 10, 2017 16:18
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Lumpy posted:Hey N.O. peoples: how did you guys decide on the tail light thing, and did you have any other good ideas we can steal? a member mentioned the idea and everyone who heard it thought it was a great idea, then we started doing small group meetings about it and developing the plan. we had a couple false starts. i really like this: https://twitter.com/judytuna/status/905819310769168384 jarofpiss posted:brake light is so good because of it being a tool the police use to put poor people in jail. you guys should start a prison break working group to one up them unbutthurtable posted:In NYC we're talking about turnstile jumping, since that's like...number one for broken windows policing. Technically it isn't illegal to swipe someone into the subway with your unlimited metrocard as you leave, so people are kicking around campaigns around that. There's already "Swipe It Forward" so we might just piggyback on that.
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Sep 10, 2017 16:27
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apropos to nothing posted:I think the issue is maybe made more clear if we stop grouping all service members together. I'd prolly split them into two types: enlisted individuals who are there for school, work, opportunity, etc. and careerists who see the armed forces as a path for advancement. the former definitely have revolutionary potential so long as they are able to recognize the problems of american imperialism and their potential contributions to it, the latter not so much because that understanding would get in the way of their advancement. the latter still could but it's a choice they have to make, can't do both. ... So service members and flag officers then. Ok
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Sep 10, 2017 16:34
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so now that the spectre of Fetontism is lifted in my area, my tiny-rear end branch of 8-ish people is gearing up to do a #KnockEveryDoor campaign and start getting ourselves actually informed about our county. other than their main site, does anyone know good resources for learning active listening? i'm hella introverted and hate talking to people so anything that helps me be more confident while doing it would be amazing.
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Sep 10, 2017 16:45
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apropos to nothing posted:
actually, compromising ideologically for the sake of pragmatism is dumb normie poo poo. the goal isn't to widen the umbrella, it's to convince people to get under it to escape the torrential downpour of poo poo that is capitalist society
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Sep 10, 2017 16:57
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Syndlig posted:so now that the spectre of Fetontism is lifted in my area, my tiny-rear end branch of 8-ish people is gearing up to do a #KnockEveryDoor campaign and start getting ourselves actually informed about our county. other than their main site, does anyone know good resources for learning active listening? i'm hella introverted and hate talking to people so anything that helps me be more confident while doing it would be amazing. how many people in austin were fetontists? i thought it was a big chapter but now you're down to 8 people?
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Sep 10, 2017 17:13
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Business Gorillas posted:how many people in the DSA were fetontists? i thought it was a big organization but now you're down to 8 people?
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Sep 10, 2017 17:15
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Business Gorillas posted:how many people in austin were fetontists? i thought it was a big chapter but now you're down to 8 people? no, austin is 700 people. I live in Williamson County, we're an "autonomous branch". basically since we're under austin's jurisdiction we're officially austin DSA members, but since we're not that close to the rest of the chapter (which seems to be mainly south and east austin), we formed our own OC up here as well. bastrop county and waco are also autonomous branches of austin dsa. san antonio used to be but they're pretty big now, and formed their own official chapter. EDIT: actual people leaving over this is probably gonna be like, I dunno, 10-20? might lose a bunch of paper members who were only there to show up for danny-led votes, but really this issue even for Austin was pretty much contained to a small subset of people. I highly doubt new members are going to be leaving in droves to follow an Angry Old White Racist. surfacelevelspeck has issued a correction as of 17:24 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 17:18
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Autism Sneaks posted:actually, compromising ideologically for the sake of pragmatism is dumb normie poo poo. the goal isn't to widen the umbrella, it's to convince people to get under it to escape the torrential downpour of poo poo that is capitalist society Stopping people from joining the club for insufficient ideological purity is not the best way to get people "under the umbrella." Welcome them in and teach them what we're about, like apropos was saying. Also, "normie poo poo?" Is that going to be a Thing outside of 4chan nazis?
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Sep 10, 2017 17:22
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Autism Sneaks posted:actually, compromising ideologically for the sake of pragmatism is dumb normie poo poo. the goal isn't to widen the umbrella, it's to convince people to get under it to escape the torrential downpour of poo poo that is capitalist society there's a difference between pivoting to the center and learning how to talk to people using terms they're familiar with and not just shouting PRAXIS at them until they walk away from you
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Sep 10, 2017 17:23
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i still dont know what praxis is
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Sep 10, 2017 17:30
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bump_fn posted:i still dont know what praxis is i think it means practice
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Sep 10, 2017 17:32
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if people can't handle my 300 page marxist critique of the DC cinematic universe they aren't comrades
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Sep 10, 2017 17:34
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like ive been praxising how to pull entire panels of sheetrock off in one piece and im getting a lot better at it
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Sep 10, 2017 17:35
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bump_fn posted:i still dont know what praxis is You have an idea or model of how the world works ("theory"). You take action, like a canvas or a strike or whatever, based on this idea ("praxis") Then you update your model of the world based on how well or poorly the action went ("theory") Your next action will be be based on your updated theory/better model of the world. ("praxis") Repeat until revolution or death.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:36
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praxually~
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Sep 10, 2017 17:39
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Autism Sneaks posted:actually, compromising ideologically for the sake of pragmatism is dumb normie poo poo. the goal isn't to widen the umbrella, it's to convince people to get under it to escape the torrential downpour of poo poo that is capitalist society here read a page from your bible: https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/823081796422291456
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Sep 10, 2017 17:42
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🅱️raxis
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Sep 10, 2017 17:45
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bump_fn posted:i still dont know what praxis is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqGnAIgzUTY
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Sep 10, 2017 17:47
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keep responding to the guy that unironically used the word normies with scorn
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Sep 10, 2017 17:47
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Al! posted:keep responding to the guy that unironically used the word normies with scorn stalin here telling people how to post
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Sep 10, 2017 17:50
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platzapS posted:You have an idea or model of how the world works ("theory"). Tercio posted:here read a page from your bible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b7bgtu2O4E&t=32s
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Sep 10, 2017 17:53
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Business Gorillas posted:there's a difference between pivoting to the center and learning how to talk to people using terms they're familiar with and not just shouting PRAXIS at them until they walk away from you read what I quoted though: they're not saying to just talk down to your comrades who think praxis is what the doctor prescribed them to lower their cholesterol, they want to adopt inferior stances just for the sake of reaching the lowest common denominator, which is tantamount to the former thing you're describing Tercio posted:here read a page from your bible: hallowed font of revolutionary praxis Fat Angry Man Who Watches Movies
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Sep 10, 2017 17:56
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"I will never cool my takes, EVER. If a cop or a troop walking into my meeting I will shoot him in the loving head." -Karl Marx
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Sep 10, 2017 18:07
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normie has become a normie term and if u don't know that ur probably a weirdo
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Sep 10, 2017 18:11
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E: Oh haha I did not see the video. E2: That multiple posters have been confused by "praxis" suggests you might want to avoid the term. platzapS has issued a correction as of 19:05 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 18:54
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platzapS posted:E2: That multiple posters have been confused by "praxis" suggests you might want to avoid the term. ^A small example of the theory/
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Sep 10, 2017 19:06
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Al! posted:keep responding to the guy that unironically used the word normies with scorn sounds like something a normie would say
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Sep 10, 2017 19:13
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A hypothetical objection posted:But platzapS, isn't that just learning from mistakes? My dog can do that.
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Sep 10, 2017 19:13
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