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If you are a funhaver, both Conclave and M&M offer some bespoke fun, in the form of horrible endless conflict with your vassals and some stuff related to societies for the latter as well as artifacts. Cults are hilarious. They really really are. Tbh, Conclave feels more like something that should have been part of the game since the start, while M&M adds new systems but is a bit, sparse. Though yeah, the Hermetics are baller
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Sep 7, 2017 17:19
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Conclave totally reworks vassals and would highly recommend it. As a vassal it give you loads mores options and opportunities to gently caress things up and gain power for yourself, you can go full Littlefinger if you get the chance. Then as a ruler it adds a whole new dynamic to the game vassal management is actually A Thing, as vassals who don't like you will act up, so you will need to please them and satisfy their egos to some extent - people on the council don't join factions. So do you stick the most talented man available as your chancellor who might dislike you and cause problems with law changes, your most powerful vassal to keep them under control or a bunch of suck ups who will let you pass any law drat well want. TLDR: Conclave is good.
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Sep 7, 2017 17:39
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Is conclave something that could potentially gently caress up my HRE game if I install it? Not that I'd be that upset about it if it did, it was a really good learning experience but the game has really stagnated while waiting for my ruler to die (66 and still holding strong). I think, really, the most important thing I learned is that becoming a Vassal/swearing fealty to a larger power isn't a lose state. I come from a background of Civ, so the idea of willingly absorbing myself into another empire rather than one I founded myself seemed insane. But that's just part of the game. Sometimes you need protection, and you can turn it to an advantage later.
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Sep 7, 2017 18:01
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Way of Life helps with Conclave because you can basically spend the first five years of a ruler Carousing and eventually make buddies with all your council people.
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Sep 7, 2017 18:22
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I can't stop myself from just choosing stewardship every time because I just love that extra demesne limit. Maybe hunting after my demesne's under control for health/combat/something to do during peacetime. Carousing's third, maybe Family if I either need to squeeze out an heir or ease family tensions, and I probably should try intrigue/seduction more, but I never do. Bastards can be so complicated. I think I've done scholarship a couple times, maybe when I'm raising an heir, but I guess it might help to keep my technology lead. I've never done theology though.
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Sep 7, 2017 18:39
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CascadeBeta posted:Is conclave something that could potentially gently caress up my HRE game if I install it? Not that I'd be that upset about it if it did, it was a really good learning experience but the game has really stagnated while waiting for my ruler to die (66 and still holding strong). Here's a basic summary of Conclave and how it would affect you: - depending on your laws, you might be forced to let your council vote on things (like wardecs, imprisonments, title grants/revocations, and law changes) before you can do them. If you go against the will of the council, you get opinion penalties for tyranny. Voting behaviors are based on opinion, traits, relative size, relationship to liege, whether the council member thinks it would personally benefit them, and a couple other factors; the game tells you what a councilor's attitude is and suggests some stances they're likely to take. Depending on your rank, you may get one or two extra "advisor" council seats that don't have a job to do but do get votes. - Your strongest vassals generally get a hefty opinion penalty if they're not on your council. On top of that, vassals that are on your council are unable to join factions (except right after a succession, because gently caress you). This means that if your realm is unstable and your armies are weak, you can get a lot of benefit from putting the biggest threats and the people you hate the most on your council...but they'll likely vote against you on most things, and there's no guarantee they'll have good stats for doing council jobs. - You can force people to do your bidding by obtaining favors against them, either by paying them a big chunk of money, by fulfilling certain requests of theirs, or promising them in return for certain things. The favor can do things like force them to vote with you on the council, force them to accept a marriage request, or other things like that. While this is a decent tool for dealing with picky voters, your vassals can also get favors from you and use them against you to do things like force you to vote on laws that benefit them (often at your expense). Vassals can also use favors against each other, and if someone who really hates you ends up on the council, you'd better believe they're going to dedicate a fair amount of time to buying everyone else's votes to ensure you can't get anything done. - As a result of all this, the council becomes a complex game of risks and rewards. Every time a council seat opens up, you're going to have to make a choice: will you pick someone with a strong stat for that job, will you pick a loyal friend who'll likely vote for whatever you want, or will you pick a strong vassal who might otherwise plot rebellion or assassination?
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Sep 7, 2017 18:56
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Okay I'm sold. That sounds like a ton of fun to manage.
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Sep 7, 2017 19:00
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It's worth noting that your council is only barred from factions if you have the first two council laws enabled (empowered and war dec) which allows your strongest vassals to faction up in order to force you to enable those laws. Also when you don't have those laws enabled you don't get the advisor council slots which means you can't put every single powerful vassal on the council, leaving one or two with a big opinion malus for not being on the council. Basically if you have full authority enabled you'll always have one or two of your strongest vassals angry about not being on the council, motivating them to be the driving force behind efforts to get those council laws enabled. Personally I just let then have council power and war dec for the ability to keep my strongest vassals on a leash. Also, if you do go against council decisions it doesn't just give a tyranny malus, it also makes the council discontent for 2 years just like at succession which allows them to faction up no matter what your council laws are. But it's not too hard to manipulate the council between favors and occasionally appointing yesmen. Also wrt M&M, while hermetics and assassins both loving rule, I disagree that satanics are just silly business when it comes to republics. A satanic with intrigue focus basically means your family is doge for life forever, even with young candidates. You can murder people like no other via satanics and it's loving amazing for patricians. Plus it's worth remembering that if you're the high priest every single satanic member will accept pretty much every demand, including vassalization and marriages that are extremely good for you that would never get accepted otherwise.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:05
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Unless it's changed in a recent patch, there is definitely a tyranny penalty for doing something against the council's wishes.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:23
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binge crotching posted:Unless it's changed in a recent patch, there is definitely a tyranny penalty for doing something against the council's wishes. I know, I was saying in addition to the tyranny opinion malus. Honky Dong Country posted:Also, if you do go against council decisions it doesn't just give a tyranny malus, it also makes the council discontent for 2 years just like at succession which allows them to faction up no matter what your council laws are. They hate your guts for tyranny and become free to faction up due to being discontent.
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Sep 7, 2017 22:46
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Honky Dong Country posted:I know, I was saying in addition to the tyranny opinion malus. I'm apparently bad at reading, sorry!
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Sep 8, 2017 03:19
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M&M always feels like it should have more secret societies worldwide. Four (at best) never feels enough choice. I mean, is there any major difference between the two Christian monk ones?
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Sep 8, 2017 03:38
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Wolfechu posted:M&M always feels like it should have more secret societies worldwide. Four (at best) never feels enough choice. I mean, is there any major difference between the two Christian monk ones? and if you're pagan you can only be a satanist/hel cultist? laaaaame, at least let them join the hermetics post-reform
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Sep 8, 2017 03:40
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Grand Prize Winner posted:and if you're pagan you can only be a satanist/hel cultist? laaaaame, at least let them join the hermetics post-reform There really ought to some kind of lore master society for germanic pagans, even if it's not strictly historically accurate. Some Odin sect or something. Just lightly reskin the hermetics, like they did the Satanists.
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Sep 8, 2017 03:43
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I installed Conclave and my HRE game is kind of screwed because the succession was changed to gavelkind for some reason rather than elective. I'm not sure why, and I'm also not sure what happened to my crown authority. It was previously Medium, but now I can't find it at all. Oh well, I might try another go at Robert the Fox now that I know what I'm doing. I also want to try something in Byzantine but I'm not sure what characters are fun there. I like that Conclave makes picking the absolute best choice for your council and picking one of your powerful vassals a hard choice. Definitely what I was looking for out of the game!
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Sep 8, 2017 15:28
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CascadeBeta posted:I installed Conclave and my HRE game is kind of screwed because the succession was changed to gavelkind for some reason rather than elective. I'm not sure why, and I'm also not sure what happened to my crown authority. It was previously Medium, but now I can't find it at all. Crown Authority doesn't exist in Conclave - most of its effects have been broken out into their own separate laws. Didn't know it would reset your succession laws, though!
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Sep 8, 2017 15:42
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Well in my Jewish game the Empire of Israel and my current ruler Emperor David II the Wise are breathing a collective sigh of relief. Genghis Khan is dead and his successor spent about 30k of their event troops fighting against the Byzantines for control of Armenia. I now have approx. 20k more troops than the Mongol Empire. So as long as I don't show any weakness I should be safe, and even safer as time goes on and they expend their remaining event troops. In other news the Mongol Empire has been Hindu since Genghis himself converted. As a result, Jewish Persia is no longer Jewish. So now Jewish power in the world is just me in Israel, the King of Africa that I set up, and a few scattered chiefs in northern Europe. It's alright though, the King of Africa is growing stronger, so much so that he declared a holy war for Tlemcen against the Sunni Garsiyids of Hispania that have grown so strong that they swallowed all of Mali and France. As soon as the war kicked off I offered to join in and the King of Africa, who's also a Gideon, was more than happy to accept. Won the war, of course, and hopefully soon Africa will declare again to take another duchy. One more duchy and he should be able to create the Kingdom of Mauretania, if not what remains of the Arabian Empire (since all but Africa and Mauretania have drifted into Israel now). The year's 1247 now and I'm basically coasting. My empire is extremely stable and firmly under my dynasty's control. I'm more or less just helping Africa grow stronger. It's been a long time since a Great Holy War was called though. I read into it, and it turns out that since I vassalized the Kohen Gadol and have vassal wars outlawed he's unable to call them. I think I'm going to grant him independence so that he can call Great Holy Wars again and I can start placing more Jewish kinsmen on various thrones before the game is over. I'm gonna take screenshots of various map modes once this is over and I want to see as much Jewish, Ashkenazi, and Gideon-ruled territory as possible in the end. I'll post those final screenshots when the time comes. E: Also at this point I've done multiple runs of various games that I've been interested in. Jews, West Africans, Catholic feudals and patricians, Muslim, nomads, norse pagans, and so on. I think after this game I'm going to start just doing randomly selected ironman games. Should be fun. E2: Hahahahah as soon as I cut loose the Kohen Gadol he declared a Great Holy War for Ruthenia against the Byzantines (the Byzantines are doing pretty well in this game, they have their usual turf in Greece and Anatolia and poo poo, as well as scattered territory [through marriages I suspect] in pockets across Europe). Trouble is the Byzantines only controlled two duchies and the kingdom title of Ruthenia. So I installed a kinsman there and granted him the Viceroyalty of Ruthenia. Now I'm gonna holy war the piss out of the surrounding neighbors since I've got 17,000 men in retinues there from the Great Holy War anyway. Once I've consolidated the Kingdom of Ruthenia under the new Viceroy Bustenai Gideon I'll grant him independence and wash my hands of the whole affair. He should be strong enough to stand alone against his various weak neighbors. Even still, I'll watch him closely and offer all the protection the 80,000-man-strong Empire of Israel can offer against infidels to keep him standing. Man, giving the Kohen Gadol independence was a great move and I wish I had done it as soon as I outlawed vassal wars. Lesson learned, I guess. Always make sure the head of your religion is independent when you outlaw vassal wars. Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 8, 2017 |
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Sep 8, 2017 22:27
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I have all the DLC (and I mean ALL), and one of my favorite things is all the insane cross-DLC drama that occurs in this narrative as events fire. For instance, I'm playing a fairly normal Greek king in the Byzantine Empire with an intrigue focus, and then all of a sudden, poo poo starts happening. My guy has the paranoid trait, so every time his wife gets pregnant, I had him hire spies and find out, yup, he's actually the father. On the 5th baby, I'm just like "Dude, you have 25 Intrigue and she hasn't cheated on you for the years you've been married, just let it go and save the gold." So she has the baby, and what do we find out right after, my guy walks right into her loving with some no-one Count from Nowhere, who has the Seduction Focus, 4 girlfriends, and 8 rivals who are all married husbands. I decide to just deal with it later, because my guy is part of the Community of Saint Basil (because hopefully God will cure his drunkenness one day), and going on a monastic retreat. I decide that the best way to deal with wifey is to go celibate, because I already have 5 kids and 2 sons, and some of they countries they'll have claims on are Gavelkind. Not 2 days into celibacy does he realize he and this older guy he's been hanging out with are into each other romantically, so he ends up realizing that he's actually gay and getting a new boyfriend. Right after he gets home I get a pop up that starts with saying his wife has gotten aggressive and anxious, and ended with her dying of rabies. So whatever, good-bye honey, with 25 Intrigue, all of the gay rear end in Europe is mine to claim. What I'm trying to say is that Monks and Mystics is good, and without it, I never would have had Despot Theodoros the Drunkard, the man who realized he was gay after 2 days of celibacy. I can see why people wouldn't like Satanists or secret religious cults, so it's a good thing you can turn them off if you don't want them.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:02
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Oh yeah, the secret cults too. Though, again, it's verry verry lame that there aren't more societies
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Sep 9, 2017 01:17
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Catalina posted:Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men’s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity! Lol this owns holy poo poo.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:36
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Catalina posted:I was cucked so hard by Satanists that I turned gay Honky Dong Country posted:Lol this owns holy poo poo.
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Sep 9, 2017 03:39
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Having played more of Conclave, I'm sad they changed how educating kids worked. I know why they did it, but I'm going to miss getting master diplomats off of a week of tutoring.
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Sep 9, 2017 23:56
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CascadeBeta posted:Having played more of Conclave, I'm sad they changed how educating kids worked. I know why they did it, but I'm going to miss getting master diplomats off of a week of tutoring. I still do pretty alright even just going with the flow. Honestly focuses from way of life go a long way toward building up a character over time. Here lately I've even grown an appreciation for some of the positive traits the theology focus can give, as well as removing lovely traits.
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Sep 10, 2017 02:35
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Honky Dong Country posted:I still do pretty alright even just going with the flow. Honestly focuses from way of life go a long way toward building up a character over time. Here lately I've even grown an appreciation for some of the positive traits the theology focus can give, as well as removing lovely traits. Both the learning based focuses are pretty solid. Theology gives access to pilgrimages and learning allows you to get the Necronomicon and the observatory. That said I still think hunting is the strongest because of the hunting dog and the white stag line.
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Sep 10, 2017 17:40
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Weavered posted:Both the learning based focuses are pretty solid. Theology gives access to pilgrimages and learning allows you to get the Necronomicon and the observatory. That said I still think hunting is the strongest because of the hunting dog and the white stag line. It's a lot more random but Business can be really good for the trade route event. They're less common (at least in my experience) but the hedge maze and tower-building events give pretty significant bonuses too.
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Sep 10, 2017 18:38
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I would actually love to shell out for a DLC that's just a crapload more of events like those. They're fun ways to spend peace time and it sucks when you realize you've basically seen them all. I'd also love a lot more random/contextual events about people coming to see you at court. I'm thinking of stuff like in Game of Thrones season 1 when the peasants come to Ned Stark and ask for help after the Lannisters have been pillaging them. If, say for example, there's a vassal on vassal war going on in your realm, have neighboring rulers, priests, or random peasants come calling and ask for help, or realm peace, or money or whatever. Just fill peace time with events. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 18:47
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I don't even know how hard it would be to add more events like that. They look like a super basic GOTO tree, it seems like all you'd need is a few more writers. Doesn't seem all that expensive really, considering how little writers get paid for most things anyways. I've always wanted more overlap between events and intrigue. Murder/Seduce/Befriend/Business with people at the local feast or tournament. IMO, the best part of these games are the decisions. That's when it feels like I'm reading a history book written about myself. That's the coolest goddamn part of the game.
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Sep 10, 2017 19:46
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Napoleon Bonaparty posted:I don't even know how hard it would be to add more events like that. They look like a super basic GOTO tree, it seems like all you'd need is a few more writers. Doesn't seem all that expensive really, considering how little writers get paid for most things anyways. I've always wanted more overlap between events and intrigue. Murder/Seduce/Befriend/Business with people at the local feast or tournament. IMO, the best part of these games are the decisions. That's when it feels like I'm reading a history book written about myself. That's the coolest goddamn part of the game. Yeah more interaction/overlap between events/plots/etc. would be cool, although I'm not sure how much the system as-is supports it (it's totally possible to do it, I'm just thinking more that managing it all would be a nightmare without some kind of specialized tool for keeping track of how various events related to each other).
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Sep 10, 2017 22:30
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Some of the big popular mods add a lot of events but they can be pretty hit or miss. I really like M&M, the Hermetics and Satanists and Assassins are all great fun, but it feels like there should be way more societies that should fit a variety of playstyles. Why can't we have Jomsvikings as a society, or weird Sufi ascetics, or some Freemason/Illuminati poo poo. Having societies for martial or stewardship focuses at least would be great. Nobody's really making mods for these yet either, I can only see one (the Great Trade League) that's a little rough around the edges. The DLC opens up a lot of ground but doesn't really explore it adequately in my opinion.
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Sep 11, 2017 09:28
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I think they mentioned societies actually being kinda complex to code? I dunno, I get a headache looking at raw code.
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Sep 11, 2017 13:48
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The Knights Templar have been stranded in Britain for the longest time now. I think Essex hired them when everybody in Britain was involved with a crusade for Jerusalem (we lost after I pulled my army out for better things) and I think they were being used in a personal war instead of the crusade, which I noted at the time as an interesting move that I didn't think the computer was capable of, but by now all the wars are over and they've stuck around for decades. I guess they don't know what to do since they don't have boats? I think they were even allied in one of my last wars on the continent, but they just stayed where they were.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:02
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More UI changes/improvements/features, including the option to prevent your landed kids from marrying for up to 10 years. Still annoying that Rally Points are apparently still planned to be restricted to the DLC. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ck2-dev-diary-66-quality-of-life.1043472/
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Sep 11, 2017 18:09
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lurksion posted:More UI changes/improvements/features, including the option to prevent your landed kids from marrying for up to 10 years. Glad to see they're finally making Horse characters playable.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:34
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lurksion posted:More UI changes/improvements/features, including the option to prevent your landed kids from marrying for up to 10 years. Oh my God, YES. I noticed it also said that you can arrange marriages on their behalf when Restrict Marriage is on. That's going to be great for every game, but absolutely the best for Muslim ones.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:39
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I am finally trying to see a game through (Connacht, 1066) despite probably only knowing half the mechanics. I'm about 50 years in now playing a third generation ruler. What is the ideal portion of land to directly hold vs give to vassals? Right now I own 6 counties in Ireland. I directly rule Connacht, Dublin, and Leinster, and have Briefne, Kildare, and Ossory each in the hands of a vassal. Since that's three duchies I have the option to crown myself King once I get my Prestige out of the shitter. Did I give too much away, or not enough? Once I become a king will my vassals expect a corresponding upgrade to Duke status?
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Sep 11, 2017 19:54
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There is a limit to how many counties you can hold personally, it depends on your state Stewardship level (that's the green stat) and your current rank (Emperors get the most, Counts the least). You always want to be maxed out. Going over has lots of penalties, but it's worth carrying an extra if you think you can up your Demense limit soon. Giving away land is easy, taking it back is hard. Once you become King, your vassals will resent you if you have too many Duke-level titles. Try to hold on to the most valuable and give away the crappiest to loyal vassals.
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Sep 11, 2017 20:14
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Another good thing to remember is to take (nearly) all of your favorite duchy, preferably making your capital a prominent county or one facing the water with the most barony slots. Once you've established a capital duchy, you should stack as many of your own holdings in the same county as possible. Whenever you tech up, it immediately affects your capital and eventually affects nearby counties, so the capital should always have the best technology. Sometimes I'll give holdings in the capital to heirs, which can allow me to temporarily hold recently conquered lands, expand in different directions, or just keep an idiot son out of some holy order. Just don't do that without considering the consequences of letting your heir live autonomously (like they'll do stupid garbage and you won't be able to cover it up). Good luck.
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Sep 12, 2017 04:19
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I usually build a Summer castle somewhere close to my own demesne, which is used for heirs. I keep it small so they can't mess it up, and close enough that I can help them if people get funny ideas.
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Sep 12, 2017 07:32
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Napoleon Bonaparty posted:Just don't do that without considering the consequences of letting your heir live autonomously (like they'll do stupid garbage and you won't be able to cover it up). Good luck. 
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Sep 12, 2017 13:54
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Thanks Paradox, for programming an Oedipus complex.
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Sep 12, 2017 17:18
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