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Sindai posted:spoilers: When they make V3 everyone is going to go berserk because the economy and population models will be simplified into something they can actually maintain and expand on later. The population model would make me go beserk, simplifying the economy would be incredibly good.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:25
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VostokProgram posted:Hello Descartes, welcome to paradox thread WhiskeyWhiskers posted:The population model would make me go beserk, simplifying the economy would be incredibly good. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Sep 10, 2017 |
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Sep 10, 2017 20:31
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I don't think the number of goods is the problem with the Vicky 2 economy that gets everyone upset. It's the way the market works and how pops buy and sell goods, which is a black box that the player has no way to inspect and understand. Halving the number of goods wouldn't change that. Also, a variety of different goods with some of them only available in certain parts of the world is useful. It gives the player some motivation to colonize and conquer besides just painting the map their color
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Sep 10, 2017 20:43
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VostokProgram posted:I don't think the number of goods is the problem with the Vicky 2 economy that gets everyone upset. It's the way the market works and how pops buy and sell goods, which is a black box that the player has no way to inspect and understand. Halving the number of goods wouldn't change that.
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Sep 10, 2017 20:51
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Paradox should make a production tycoon sort of game called "Clipper Shipyard" all about managing a 1800's shipyard and dealing with changing demands and resource costs and eventually changing technology. They could have a STEAMER DLC expansion.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:02
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If the word Tariff appears anywhere in the V3 design doc then Paradox are fools.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:10
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I like having a somewhat detailed economy but TBH even vicky 2 doesn't quite utilise it to it's greatest, because it's not really possible to apply economic pressure to groups or countries upsetting you. It ends up being the trade system from EUIV But More, being a confusing system of generating money to fund your army.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:13
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wukkar posted:If the word Tariff appears anywhere in the V3 design doc then Paradox are fools. tariffs were one of the most important political issues of the day, an industrial revolution game shouldn't avoid them
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Sep 10, 2017 21:20
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spectralent posted:I like having a somewhat detailed economy but TBH even vicky 2 doesn't quite utilise it to it's greatest, because it's not really possible to apply economic pressure to groups or countries upsetting you. It ends up being the trade system from EUIV But More, being a confusing system of generating money to fund your army.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:23
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One thing I would like to see is a HOI-like army automator because late game mobilised armies are loving something else.
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Sep 10, 2017 21:29
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spectralent posted:One thing I would like to see is a HOI-like army automator because late game mobilised armies are loving something else. Yeah playing a late-game China is a micromanagement nightmare because even your standing army is like 300+ divisions. Being able to sort your army into groups and just give HoI4 style strategic orders to the groups would make warfare a lot less of a pain. As for the Victoria economy, it's actually not really that complicated at all. The main problem is that it FEELS complicated because the game does a very bad job of communicating what's going on. Really, the Vicky economy is just a big pool of producers and consumers, which more or less try to balance each other out but don't do a great job of it for various reasons. The player's ability to interact with this system is also very minimal which helps to contribute to the whole "black box" feeling. Pretty much all you can do is set up customized buy orders to stockpile goods if you're trying to throttle the world supply, assuming you're high enough in the great power rankings to actually be able to succeed at it. In a hypothetical Victoria 3, I think that rather than simplifying the economy, the player just needs more tools to interact with it. Things like trade embargoes or being able to set up naval blockades to stop or alter the flow of goods would have a much more noticeable impact and also feel natural to the period and the gameplay in general. Something like trade lanes would also be an intuitive way to display the flow of goods to the player - everyone would still be able to sell goods to anyone else, but the actual flow of goods would be tracked from the selling nation to the buying nation and contribute to the "size" of the trade lane. They could be pre-defined like EU4 trade routes, or dynamic based on actual trade activity (although I could see this becoming a huge disorganized mess without some system to "cluster" trade into shared lanes rather than just everything taking the most direct route). Then your tariff income would be based on control of those lanes and how much actual trade was flowing through them. This would also mean that controlling say, the Suez or Panama canals would actually have an intrinsic value because of how they disrupt the flow of trade, rather than just giving a yearly flat "you got 10,000 monies" bonus.
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Sep 10, 2017 22:18
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Baudin posted:I play too much Victoria 2 for how old and buggy it is - please give me more pops to choose from (in vicky 3) If every single human being is not a pop of their own, Vicky 3 will be a failure to rival Spore and No Man's Sky 
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Sep 10, 2017 22:49
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah playing a late-game China is a micromanagement nightmare because even your standing army is like 300+ divisions. Being able to sort your army into groups and just give HoI4 style strategic orders to the groups would make warfare a lot less of a pain. This is all good stuff. I'm kind of wondering also if funding rebels/seperatists is period-appropriate for the game; I kind of feel like it should be at the very least for uncivs to represent paying off local tribes to revolt and drop a protectorate out of someone's sphere.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:00
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Something like trade lanes would also be an intuitive way to display the flow of goods to the player - everyone would still be able to sell goods to anyone else, but the actual flow of goods would be tracked from the selling nation to the buying nation and contribute to the "size" of the trade lane. They could be pre-defined like EU4 trade routes, or dynamic based on actual trade activity (although I could see this becoming a huge disorganized mess without some system to "cluster" trade into shared lanes rather than just everything taking the most direct route). Then your tariff income would be based on control of those lanes and how much actual trade was flowing through them. This would also mean that controlling say, the Suez or Panama canals would actually have an intrinsic value because of how they disrupt the flow of trade, rather than just giving a yearly flat "you got 10,000 monies" bonus. Vicky 3 should let you draw big arrows on the map like HOI4 except for trade goods not armies.
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Sep 10, 2017 23:28
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Just make sure you don't forget to manually move the right pops into the new factroy the capitalists have built.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:16
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I never got a hang of the V2 economy. I'd just fiddle with sliders randomly until I was making green.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:39
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Funky Valentine posted:I never got a hang of the V2 economy. I'd just fiddle with sliders randomly until I was making green. That's the maximum extent anyone, including the people who made the game, can understand the V2 economy.
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Sep 11, 2017 00:50
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Funky Valentine posted:I never got a hang of the V2 economy. I'd just fiddle with sliders randomly until I was making green. Congrats, here's your degree.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:23
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Every world leader posted:I never got a hang of the economy. I'd just fiddle with tax rate randomly until I was making green. Hence, Vicky 2 is the perfect game.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:32
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In Vicky3 you will play as a specific named character like in ck2, so funnelling as much from the state budget to your personal fund will be important, as it is one of the score factors at the end of the game.
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Sep 11, 2017 02:50
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Vicky 3? Pssh, All the cool kids are still waiting on EU: Rome II
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Sep 11, 2017 04:10
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Actually, in V3, your pops in your states will be represented by icons in 5x5 tiles.
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Sep 11, 2017 04:17
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every time you purchase a commodity from the world market you will be able to assign it directly to a slot in one of your factories
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Sep 11, 2017 04:25
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unwantedplatypus posted:Vicky 3? Pssh, All the cool kids are still waiting on EU: Rome II Yeah!  
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Sep 11, 2017 04:40
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:In Vicky3 you will play as a specific named character like in ck2, so funnelling as much from the state budget to your personal fund will be important, as it is one of the score factors at the end of the game. So Tropico?
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Sep 11, 2017 07:27
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unwantedplatypus posted:Vicky 3? Pssh, All the cool kids are still waiting on EU: Rome II I mean, wasn't EU:R1 a sorta proto CK or am I misremembering? Was that Senkoku?
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Sep 11, 2017 14:23
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Sengoku was the proto-CK2 CK1 came out before EU:Rome
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Sep 11, 2017 14:25
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Most of EU:R's concepts never made it into another paradox game, which is a shame, because it had some really dang cool ideas. Still the best internal politics system in a paradox game.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:04
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How playable is it these days? Are there any essential mods? I've been meaning to give it a go for a while.
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Sep 11, 2017 17:18
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Koramei posted:How playable is it these days? Are there any essential mods? I've been meaning to give it a go for a while. It wasn't especially good overall even back then. Wiz released a pretty solid overhaul mod that comes recommended. Without it, I don't think the game is worth playing other than for curiosity's sake. With it, it's alright. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/reign-of-the-ancients-features.502885/
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Sep 11, 2017 18:25
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Cool thanks, people talk about it so much I figure I ought to give it a go at least. There's also a sale on the Paradox store right now that has it for $2.50.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:09
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Vicky3, which will be VR and set in your office, will actually include Rome 2 as a boardgame your character (and you!) can play to unwind after spending a long day seeing just how little you can invest in workplace safety before too many labourers start dying.
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Sep 11, 2017 23:10
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I actually have no idea what EU:Rome really is. I've never touched the thing or even watched a LP of it or anything. What are the unique ideas the game has people always go on about?
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Sep 12, 2017 08:58
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Province governors had families and politics and armies would form loyalties to their general and potentially join him in a coup.
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Sep 12, 2017 09:00
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Demiurge4 posted:Province governors had families and politics and armies would form loyalties to their general and potentially join him in a coup. Yeah, it was a weird mix between EU's realm-focused expansion and CK2's character-focused intrigue. I was sort of hoping at one point that Stellaris could go that way, by making sector and planet governors a thing that always exists and who vie for influence in your empire, but the governor system hasn't really been touched since release.
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Sep 12, 2017 09:13
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Groogy posted:I actually have no idea what EU:Rome really is. I've never touched the thing or even watched a LP of it or anything. wait you didn't read Wiz's LP? 
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Sep 12, 2017 10:08
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Crete belongs in the LP hall of fame. It also had the moment of Wiz posting that the LP was switching to videos as a joke and goons believed. Of course, this was before video LPs of Paradox games actually became a thing
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Sep 12, 2017 10:33
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Groogy posted:I actually have no idea what EU:Rome really is. I've never touched the thing or even watched a LP of it or anything. As a barbarian (in Wiz's mod so they are actually remotely playable) you can go bankrupt because you have too many units that are loyal to their general cause you can't disband those and your budget might start making GBS threads itself if even one trade route fails.
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Sep 12, 2017 10:44
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Goa Tse-tung posted:wait you didn't read Wiz's LP? I read Hozenhollern and AzeriLP
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Sep 12, 2017 12:05
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I think there were a not-trivial amount of people who registered in SA just to be able to vote in the Crete LP
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Sep 12, 2017 12:24
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