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The fundamental issue (I think) with late game enemies is the way to deal with them is simply shooting them a ton. There's little manouevre where you avoid the big guns through clever play until you can get killing blows or whatever. It's just a pure and simple damage race where you stack it on in the turn you contact. In that respect position almost becomes meaningless as a late game concern, it's all about the damage numbers, you may as well be playing Darkest Dungeon and you're either able to do the damage or not. It'd be nice to make movement and positioning matter more, but I think it'd require a ground rethink & rebalance to do so.
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Sep 12, 2017 08:35
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Tzarnal posted:So I'm the author of New Promotion Screen by Default. Thanks for the endorsement. I hated having to cancel out of the mission loadout screen to go to the training center to use AP, you're a champ.
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Sep 12, 2017 08:43
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Tzarnal posted:So I'm the author of New Promotion Screen by Default. Thanks for the endorsement. Hey, didn't we used to play minecraft or something? Either way it's a fantastic mod, thanks very much. Post in this thread if you make more!
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Sep 12, 2017 08:47
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SulphagneSocialist posted:I hated having to cancel out of the mission loadout screen to go to the training center to use AP, you're a champ. Same, great mod, it's one of the few UI mods I use with no trade offs, just improvement to the base game.
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Sep 12, 2017 08:49
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Welp, just had a sniper execute a full health Berserker Queen, guess he had a repeater I'd forgotten about. Guess that's that soted 
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Sep 12, 2017 08:52
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Taffer posted:Hey, didn't we used to play minecraft or something? Either way it's a fantastic mod, thanks very much. Post in this thread if you make more! Yeah we did.  I have plans but well, large class overhauls take time and may not pan out so we'll see.
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Sep 12, 2017 08:59
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Maluco Marinero posted:The fundamental issue (I think) with late game enemies is the way to deal with them is simply shooting them a ton. There's little manouevre where you avoid the big guns through clever play until you can get killing blows or whatever. It's just a pure and simple damage race where you stack it on in the turn you contact. In that respect position almost becomes meaningless as a late game concern, it's all about the damage numbers, you may as well be playing Darkest Dungeon and you're either able to do the damage or not. Yeah no. This is only the case for gatekeepers since gateway has such a massive radius and no accuracy check, so its pretty much impossible to avoid being hit by it if the Gatekeeper gets an action. Otherwise there are still plenty of ways to deal with lategame enemies abilities. Just as an example, people were ragging on smoke grenades but those are best way to not get murdered by a sectopod if its gonna get an action. The issue is Xcom becomes so good at killing stuff that you don't need to pursue any defensive options most of the time. The best way to avoid damage is to just kill the enemy. EDIT: Which on reflection might exactly be what you were saying and I just misinterpreted it. I blame my insomnia. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Sep 12, 2017 |
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Sep 12, 2017 09:33
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my ranger ran up to a faceless, slashed it with her sword, and a fuel tank 9 squares away blew up and killed a civilian 
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Sep 12, 2017 09:35
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Internet Kraken posted:The issue is Xcom becomes so good at killing stuff that you don't need to pursue any defensive options most of the time. The best way to avoid damage is to just kill the enemy. This applies as soon as you get out of the conventional weapons/frags era. That's why Blast Padding is useful on early Grenadiers and why the Sharpshooter ability to shoot back with the pistol at Squaddie is a joke. And if you don't have the resources to kill an enemy or two immediately, you drop a mimic beacon and pray.
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Sep 12, 2017 09:35
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I found a really lovely bug, I did it twice in the same mission so far (hunter base mission): If you want to reload all of your dudes and not move, and mash r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab, the grenadier will just loving waste a grenade. I don't even see the animation for a grenade being shot but he had 2 frost bombs and 1 emp, and now he has 1 frost bomb. He hasn't used a grenade yet legitimately.
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Sep 12, 2017 09:50
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What's the consensus on Integrated DLC? It's less obstrusive so you don't have the missions but you can't control when the alien rulers appear and you don't free weapons and a spark either...
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Sep 12, 2017 10:18
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Internet Kraken posted:The issue is Xcom becomes so good at killing stuff that you don't need to pursue any defensive options most of the time. The best way to avoid damage is to just kill the enemy. Yeah, pretty much what I mean. Position COULD matter, but it really doesn't because the game's power curve implies damage numbers are the only thing that matters. Wounds are so debilitating if you regularly take them that it's made very clear that balls out offence is the optimum strategy as long as you control drawing of pods, and that's clearly the balance target too considering the pod mechanic itself combined with line of play and throttling is tailored to ensure you always take on only a pod or two at a time. Mobility is actively discouraged through turn timers as well. There's no incentive to play for position while in contact at a slower pace when it will likely lose you the mission due to incoming hits and lost time. There's just no impetus to explore what the enemy attacks and abilities are like, unlike say Dark Souls or other hard action games where intimate knowledge of how to survive attacks is required to succeed. This reduces the game a lot of the time, to damage numbers where it could be a lot more.
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Sep 12, 2017 10:29
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Do mods on a sniper rifle apply to pistols too?
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Sep 12, 2017 10:47
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Verviticus posted:my ranger ran up to a faceless, slashed it with her sword, and a fuel tank 9 squares away blew up and killed a civilian Her BUDOKAN is strong! Leyburn posted:Do mods on a sniper rifle apply to pistols too? Nope only ammo, except for the Darkclaw pistol.
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Sep 12, 2017 10:48
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redreader posted:I found a really lovely bug, I did it twice in the same mission so far (hunter base mission): If you want to reload all of your dudes and not move, and mash r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab, the grenadier will just loving waste a grenade. I don't even see the animation for a grenade being shot but he had 2 frost bombs and 1 emp, and now he has 1 frost bomb. He hasn't used a grenade yet legitimately. I know you all super-care so I'll tell you: on veteran difficulty it didn't matter, I came out of the mission with 1 soldier wounded. Veteran: too easy. Commander: too? or at least, very, hard.
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Sep 12, 2017 11:03
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The Biggest Jerk posted:What's the consensus on Integrated DLC? It's less obstrusive so you don't have the missions but you can't control when the alien rulers appear and you don't free weapons and a spark either... For Campaign 2 I've decided to uninstall Alien Hunters and Anarchy's Children (I hate fun, deal with it) and only leave Shen's in, and not integrate it. That way I get the mission and the Spark and none of the bullshit. Mods and the Chosen weapons replace the experimental weapons well enough.
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Sep 12, 2017 11:17
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The Biggest Jerk posted:What's the consensus on Integrated DLC? It's less obstrusive so you don't have the missions but you can't control when the alien rulers appear and you don't free weapons and a spark either... I've turned off alien rulers after someone earlier told me how. Having to fight the Viper King when all you've got is mag weapons and predator armour is just impossible. The amount of health he has, the range he can grab you at and the fact he moves twelve times is too much. If I had that starter mission and knew what I was getting into I think it would have worked out for me much better.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:16
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Do they not bail out if they take too much damage in facility fights, and instead they're essentially a boss guarding the facility?
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Sep 12, 2017 12:17
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If you have integrated DLC on, you have total control over when the rulers show up. The first time you fight each one will be when you attack whatever facility they're guarding. They only start showing up randomly if you fight them at that first facility, and then let them get away. Also kind of funny to be saying "i only had mid-game gear instead of literally the best available gear in the game, the mid-game challenge enemy was way too hard".
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Sep 12, 2017 12:19
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Jabor posted:If you have integrated DLC on, you have total control over when the rulers show up. The first time you fight each one will be when you attack whatever facility they're guarding. They only start showing up randomly if you fight them at that first facility, and then let them get away. Well you have control in so much as you don't need to knock over that facility to avoid a game over. Covert ops give you plenty of breathing space on the Avatar timer though.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:23
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Wait are we talking Advent facilities, because I drat near attacked one while I'm still halfway through month 2  I'd rather not find an Alien Ruler while nanoweave is a novel new thing
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Sep 12, 2017 12:25
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Stupid PlayStation Network. Said WotC was installed when I checked last night, but it wasn't, so it's downloading while I'm at work.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:25
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Danaru posted:Wait are we talking Advent facilities, because I drat near attacked one while I'm still halfway through month 2 The mission launch interface on the hologlobe says "there's a powerful alien guarding this facility" if there's a ruler.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:26
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SulphagneSocialist posted:The mission launch interface on the hologlobe says "there's a powerful alien guarding this facility" if there's a ruler. Okay whew, I haven't actually tried attacking the facility yet, but it's good to know there's a warning 
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Sep 12, 2017 12:27
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Just got the expansion and man gently caress this chosen bitch and her *teleports behind u and unsheaths katana* nothin personell..... bullshit.SulphagneSocialist posted:The mission launch interface on the hologlobe says "there's a powerful alien guarding this facility" if there's a ruler. That one just popped up for me and I haven't done the rulers intro mission yet. Did they just scrap it and integrate the rulers directly into the normal gameplay or something? I also had Bradford talking about the Avatar project before it was revealed.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:30
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Foxhound posted:Just got the expansion and man gently caress this chosen bitch and her *teleports behind u and unsheaths katana* nothin personell..... bullshit. Having her crop up on missions with The Lost is hilarious because she's usually too busy stunning zambos and getting dogpiled by the rest to do anything about your squad.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:36
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The Biggest Jerk posted:What's the consensus on Integrated DLC? It's less obstrusive so you don't have the missions but you can't control when the alien rulers appear and you don't free weapons and a spark either... Taear posted:Having to fight the Viper King when all you've got is mag weapons and predator armour is just impossible. The amount of health he has, the range he can grab you at and the fact he moves twelve times is too much. It's not impossible, but not pleasant to meet him in regular mission instead of the one straight up saying "Hey, remember those weapons with stun chance and the freeze grenade? Perhaps you should take them with you". Facilities warn you there's a powerful alien, but not what you should expect(in case you never played that DLC before), and you aren't guaranteed to meet Viper and not Archon first. Granted, WotC nerfed rulers so they don't get some reaction turns anymore, notably on your soldier reloads and actions outside their sight, so sniping rulers is quite viable now. Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Sep 12, 2017 |
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Sep 12, 2017 12:38
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Danaru posted:Having her crop up on missions with The Lost is hilarious because she's usually too busy stunning zambos and getting dogpiled by the rest to do anything about your squad. Ha! I wish that was the case with my first real encounter with her, which was on a Lost mission and her weakness was explosives. Last several times I've had Lost and Advent on a mission, they have been doing a valiant job of ignoring each other in favor of coming after me, even they are much closer to each other and should make more appealing targets.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:41
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Foxhound posted:That one just popped up for me and I haven't done the rulers intro mission yet. Did they just scrap it and integrate the rulers directly into the normal gameplay or something? No, you integrated actually. There is an option when you start a new game called 'Integrate DLC' that disables the DLC missions, makes the Rulers guard a facility and puts Sparks in the Proving Grounds. I don't think it's very well explained, honestly.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:44
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The assassin is a jaborni on missions. The most damage she has done is from having the revenge trait that lets her shoot when you miss.
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Sep 12, 2017 12:50
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Jabor posted:Also kind of funny to be saying "i only had mid-game gear instead of literally the best available gear in the game, the mid-game challenge enemy was way too hard". To me being at mid game gear is having Gauss as well so your whole squad is equipped with stuff. Unfortunately I barely use sharpshooters, I don't like not being able to move them. Like I'm not a good player, I don't want that level of challenge thanks. I'm really glad I can just turn them off. And if they're the mid game challenge why are they super difficult in comparison to the chosen?!
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Sep 12, 2017 12:55
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The assassin usually ignores Lost for me but last time I fought her I got her down to 1 health, she stunned me and ran away into a corner with a single lost in it and he casually sucker punched her dead
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Sep 12, 2017 12:56
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I havent gotten Shen/Alien Rulers yet. Are they worth the money now with WotC?
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Sep 12, 2017 13:04
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Taear posted:To me being at mid game gear is having Gauss as well so your whole squad is equipped with stuff. Unfortunately I barely use sharpshooters, I don't like not being able to move them. They are extremely dangerous compared to the chosen but they also gently caress off almost immediately if you give them a couple of baby love taps; I ran into ol' Kingsnake for the first time with mag/predator and ran him off in three actions on Commander. One of my guys got frozen and another one got yanked and strangled a little bit but that was it. Now that out-of-LOS moves don't give rulers extra actions, the way you deal with them is very good forward scouting. Battle Scanners and concealment in general, especially reapers, mean that you should never blunder into one without being able to position relatively effectively beforehand. All you need to do is set up a couple of decent hits to get them to go away, you're not expected to kill them in one go. FrickenMoron posted:I havent gotten Shen/Alien Rulers yet. Are they worth the money now with WotC? SPARKs are cool and fun to use, so I like Shen's Last Gift. Alien Rulers are more divisive; I like them a whole lot as a random wrench in the works challenge now that their more bullshit aspects have been nerfed through the floor(no more free actions on out-of-LOS moves/reload), but some people find them intolerable so it's hard to say. Kanos fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Sep 12, 2017 |
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Sep 12, 2017 13:06
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Veotax posted:No, you integrated actually. There is an option when you start a new game called 'Integrate DLC' that disables the DLC missions, makes the Rulers guard a facility and puts Sparks in the Proving Grounds. I see. I did select that but I figured it would just keep the original DLC missions but pace them differently so they meshed with the WotC content kinda. It's still a bit weird to have Bradfor first say we've picked up random german chatter on comms to then go on to say "Vahlen's escaped test subjects" with no prior mention of them. I mean since I've played the DLC before it's whatever but for a new player it'd be weird. The assassin I got is melee immune and doesn't trigger overwatch so she's kind of a pain and The Lost can't touch her and she can just run up to my guys with impunity. Foxhound fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Sep 12, 2017 |
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Sep 12, 2017 13:26
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Foxhound posted:The assassin I got is melee immune and doesn't trigger overwatch so she's kind of a pain and The Lost can't touch her and she can just run up to my guys with impunity. Yeesh, and I thought I had it bad with immunity to explosions
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Sep 12, 2017 13:32
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I've gotten lucky so far in my legendary campaign. Warlock who is the easiest has the worst weakness (easy to target from above), Hunter is brittle (but immune to explosions.) I haven't met the Assassin yet but I'm already horrified.
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Sep 12, 2017 13:36
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I wonder if sectopods would be better with heavy duty directional armor. Like, normal hits automatically do half damage to them, but flanking shots will wreck them. That, combined with their charge up Wrath Cannon attack, would probably make them better at forcing your guys to reposition and maneuver intelligently. Edit: Come to think of it, on that note, I have never once in the entirety of this game seen Wrath Cannon actually fire. It's too slow and sectopods are too easily handled.
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Sep 12, 2017 13:56
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I'm not too sure; removing directional facing was one of the nicer streamlining things that they did when updating the series. Something simple to draw out engagements would do, even if it's something obnoxious like "This unit cannot take more than 5 dmg per attack" or temporary dmg reflector shields, etc. Unfair bollocks would be welcome during the victory lap
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Sep 12, 2017 14:05
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redreader posted:I found a really lovely bug, I did it twice in the same mission so far (hunter base mission): If you want to reload all of your dudes and not move, and mash r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab-r-tab, the grenadier will just loving waste a grenade. I don't even see the animation for a grenade being shot but he had 2 frost bombs and 1 emp, and now he has 1 frost bomb. He hasn't used a grenade yet legitimately. I had that happen to me and assumed I fat fingered something somehow
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