USPOL: Pulitzer Feeling Increasingly Out Of Place In New York Times Office

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL: Pulitzer Feeling Increasingly Out Of Place In New York Times Office

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Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Grapplejack posted:

It's important to understand that people can have negatives about them, but you can still celebrate the good things they did.

failing to recognize the humanity of their children because enslaving them netted him a four cent profit on nail production should be a hard pass on celebrating

# ? Sep 13, 2017 05:29

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# ? May 24, 2024 00:58

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

https://twitter.com/pblest/status/907818305410535424

# ? Sep 13, 2017 05:29

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

boner confessor posted:

you're not ever going to make these people happy unless you completely capitulate and accept their view that blacks just need to quit whining and get jobs. look at how much colin capernick and other football players are angering them by refusing to stand for the national anthem. you're insisting that folks who get mad about statues being questioned can be rationally debated, i and many others question that assertion. we're just going to have to agree to disagree, not just you and me but the statue worshipers as well as the statue topplers

No, I agree with you. I guess I just had to be persuaded. I know people like this. I have a cousin on Facebook that I respect, but even knowing that I live in Charlottesville and knew Heather Heyer, he got huffy with me when I wrote a post about how disgusted I was about "many sides". He's also talked about how he's going to boycott the NFL because of Kaepernick. It's really dumb. I know people here won't agree, but I honestly don't think it's racism. He's just so deep in the centrism that he can't see the forest for the trees.

Trabisnikof posted:

Well you edited it, but consider this when talking about "middle America" if we wait until they'll approve before acting, when do we draw the line?

That's a good point. If, for example, we had waited for "middle America" to approve of gay marriage or DADT repeal, we wouldn't have either one. I was also thinking of a 1960s poll someone shared in the Trump thread about "middle American" approval of sit-in protests. It was something ridiculous like 22%.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 05:31

alpha_destroy: Mar 23, 2010; Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Edit: Never mind. I'm going to just end up digging a hole like others on these threads who earned everyone's wrath.

I know you edited this but...

Not every action is aimed at everyone. There is a specific context to UVA. Yea, the events at Charlottesville struck the whole nation. But they also struck Charlottesville as a local community. So put simply, this action doesn't need to reach Peoria because it's not for Peoria. Decentralized orgs can take up very local issues aside their broader ones. I mean, god forbid people do something at UVA directed locally at their own campus.

Or, in other words: not everything is about you/"middle America."

Edit: and I don't mean you personally. I mean you generally as in people (and especially white dudes) need to realize not everything needs to appeal to them.

alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Sep 13, 2017

# ? Sep 13, 2017 05:31

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

No, I agree with you. I guess I just had to be persuaded. I know people like this. I have a cousin on Facebook that I respect, but even knowing that I live in Charlottesville and knew Heather Heyer, he got huffy with me when I wrote a post about how disgusted I was about "many sides". He's also talked about how he's going to boycott the NFL because of Kaepernick. It's really dumb. I know people here won't agree, but I honestly don't think it's racism. He's just so deep in the centrism that he can't see the forest for the trees.

it's racism, but not rabid, angry racism. it's the quiet, still racism that stagnates in the hearts of people who would rather just not grapple with the idea that our society is actively constructed in a discriminatory, unequal manner. it's the same as being friends with a devout christian who won't tell you that you're going to hell, but you know they're thinking it

# ? Sep 13, 2017 05:33

Agents are GO!: Dec 29, 2004

VitalSigns posted:

Paging McMagic

The most conservative Senate Democrat wants to �explore� single-payer

We just need to find out what HILLARY CLINTON or NANCY PELOSI thinks about this development.

Edit:

# ? Sep 13, 2017 06:19

Harton: Jun 13, 2001

boner confessor posted:

it's racism, but not rabid, angry racism. it's the quiet, still racism that stagnates in the hearts of people who would rather just not grapple with the idea that our society is actively constructed in a discriminatory, unequal manner. it's the same as being friends with a devout christian who won't tell you that you're going to hell, but you know they're thinking it

loving A right. This poo poo needs to be brought into the light and talked about at every opportunity. As a douchebag white dude myself it took a lot longer than it should have to realize how truly hosed up everything is. If we keep pandering to scumbags we'll never win over the people who can be convinced. It's gotta be loud and in their loving faces until they are forced to pick a side. Some of these people can be won over, but it's gotta be dragged out of them. Being civil isn't gonna cut it, get in people's faces and shout it.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 06:23

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

RuanGacho posted:

Only actual, notified Nazis are probably beyond hope but we have to shift the conversation, and keep moving it so they can't settle into what's comfortable. Remember the enemy is literally reactionary thought and they will exhaust if they have to apply intellectual rigor, that is why they keep trying to hit the same points, the same cow bell over and over for 30 years. That is our glorious strength that we have over our opponents, we have no need to protect anything that isn't worth keeping.

This is a less dumb way of putting my thoughts on the matter.

Also do what you can to stamp out indifference.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 07:51

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

Harton posted:

loving A right. This poo poo needs to be brought into the light and talked about at every opportunity. As a douchebag white dude myself it took a lot longer than it should have to realize how truly hosed up everything is. If we keep pandering to scumbags we'll never win over the people who can be convinced. It's gotta be loud and in their loving faces until they are forced to pick a side. Some of these people can be won over, but it's gotta be dragged out of them. Being civil isn't gonna cut it, get in people's faces and shout it.

It's ok us white guys need to be knocked down a few pegs. Embrace being wrong because being wrongs totally ok here.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 07:53

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

so hillary clinton published a book discussing what happened in 2016

here's a short review of it

quote:

How do you lose the presidency to a man like Donald Trump? He was the most unpopular presidential candidate of all time, compounding blunder with blunder and heaping gaffe upon gaffe. Keeping him from the Oval Office should have been the single-minded mission of the Democratic party. And it should have been easy for them.

Instead they lost, and now their 2016 candidate Hillary Clinton comes before us to account for this monumental failure, to tell us What Happened. Unfortunately, her new book is less an effort to explain than it is to explain away.

No real blame ever settles anywhere near Clinton�s person. And while she wrestles gamely with the larger historical question of why the party of the people has withered as inequality grows, she never offers a satisfying answer. Instead, most of the blame is directed outward, at familiar suspects like James Comey, the Russians and the media.

Still, by exercising a little discernment, readers can find clues to the mystery of 2016 here and there among the clouds of blame-evasion and positive thinking.

Start at the beginning: why did Hillary Clinton run for president? �[B]ecause I thought I�d be good at the job,� she writes. Then, 13 pages later: �It was a chance to do the most good I would ever be able to do.�

A would-be do-gooder needs problems to solve, of course, and so Clinton says she turned next to the people who knew what was wrong. �I started calling policy experts,� she writes, �reading thick binders of memos, and making lists of problems that needed more thought.� Lists of problems and solutions are everywhere; reeling them off one after another is one of her favorite rhetorical devices, her way of checking the boxes and letting everyone know that she cares.

Proceeding in this rational, expert-sanctioned way, Hillary Clinton set out resolutely on the road to oblivion.

She seems to have been almost totally unprepared for the outburst of populist anger that characterized 2016, an outburst that came under half a dozen different guises: trade, outsourcing, immigration, opiates, deindustrialization, and the recent spectacle of Wall Street criminals getting bailed out. It wasn�t the issues that mattered so much as the outrage, and Donald Trump put himself in front of it. Clinton couldn�t.

To her credit, and unlike many of her most fervent supporters, Hillary Clinton doesn�t deny that this web of class-related problems had some role in her downfall. When she isn�t repeating self-help bromides or calumniating the Russians she can be found wondering why so many working-class people have deserted the Democratic party.

This is an important question, and in dealing with it Clinton writes a few really memorable passages, like her description of a grotesque campaign stop in West Virginia where she was protested by a crowd that included the former CEO of the company that owned the Upper Big Branch mine, where 29 coal miners died in 2010.

But by and large, Clinton�s efforts to understand populism always get short-circuited, probably because taking it seriously might lead one to conclude that working people have a legitimate beef with her and the Democratic party.

Countless inconvenient items get deleted from her history. She only writes about trade, for example, in the most general terms; Nafta and the TPP never. Her husband�s program of bank deregulation is photoshopped out. The names Goldman Sachs and Walmart never come up.

Besides, to take populism seriously might also mean that Bernie Sanders, who was �outraged about everything,� might have had a point, and much of What Happened is dedicated to blasting Sanders for challenging Clinton in the Democratic primaries. Given that he later endorsed her and even campaigned for her, this can only be described as churlish, if not downright dishonest.

That Clinton might have done well to temper her technocratic style with some populist outrage of her own only dawns on her towards the end of the book, by which point it is too late.

Not to mention impossible. Hillary Clinton simply cannot escape her satisfied white-collar worldview � compulsively listing people�s academic credentials, hobnobbing with officers from Facebook and Google, and telling readers how she went to Davos in 1998 to announce her philosophy.

And then, in her concluding chapter, returning to her beloved alma mater Wellesley College and informing graduates of that prestigious institution that, with their �capacity for critical thinking� (among other things) they were �precisely what we needed in America in 2017.�

I wish it were so. I wish that another crop of elite college grads were what we needed. I wish Hillary�s experts and her enlightened capitalist friends could step in and fix this shabby America we inhabit today, where racists march in the streets and the Midwest falls apart and cops shoot motorists for no reason and a blustering groper inhabits the White House.

I wish it were all a matter of having a checklist of think-tank approved policy solutions. But I know for sure it isn�t. And voters knew that, too.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 08:15

LITERALLY MY FETISH: Nov 11, 2010; Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

When I was a lot younger my sister and I were on our way to school in a half hour commute or so, and it was the first time I had listened to any Kanye when that opening drum line from black skinhead came out. When I made the lovely remark of "Why can't he make his point without yelling" she gave me the most direct and razor sharp answer I had ever heard on this subject that cut through a lot of my unnoticed white privilege: "Because no one was listening when he said it quietly."

If you ask the question of why BLM is protesting a thing, you should probably ask yourself first if they're doing it because we weren't listening the first time.

Also black skinhead is now one of my favorite songs of all time.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 08:45

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

If that's an accurate read of the contents of the book id be inclined to agree with its analysis, I'm going to openly admit there's no way I'm going to actually read it however, I just don't have the time for something that unimportant to me, I'd rather get through Thomas Pickety's Capital before id spend time on a pundit book, Clinton's or otherwise.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 08:46

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:

When I was a lot younger my sister and I were on our way to school in a half hour commute or so, and it was the first time I had listened to any Kanye when that opening drum line from black skinhead came out. When I made the lovely remark of "Why can't he make his point without yelling" she gave me the most direct and razor sharp answer I had ever heard on this subject that cut through a lot of my unnoticed white privilege: "Because no one was listening when he said it quietly."

If you ask the question of why BLM is protesting a thing, you should probably ask yourself first if they're doing it because we weren't listening the first time.

Also black skinhead is now one of my favorite songs of all time.

the thing that gets me the most about blm is that they are doing exactly what we've said good protests should do for a long time. civil disobedience, no violence, etc. but people hate blm with a passion for protesting the way we say is the proper way to protest.

hell, even when it's not mass protest, just one football player kneeling during the pledge they get unbelievably angry

it just goes to show that people really really don't care about civil rights and don't want to have to think about it

# ? Sep 13, 2017 08:55

The Muppets On PCP: Nov 13, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Agents are GO! posted:

We just need to find out what HILLARY CLINTON or NANCY PELOSI thinks about this development.

i know it's a rhetorical question but still

# ? Sep 13, 2017 08:59

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

The thought crossing my mind is that with people like Bernie and Franken and really most of the but name Dems getting on in years and this stuff coming out how theyre (Obama, clinton) not really supportive of socialist policies one of three things is going to happen.

1. DSA is going to suddenly and quickly get much stronger
2. The dems are going to get jerked left, like it or not
3. They hold onto power far too long just like GOP boomers and we get 2018 full of poo poo.

I want to avoid that last one at all costs.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 09:03

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

'We can't do anything as long as the Republicans are attacking us!'

How convenient given Republicans literally do nothing but attack anything and everything Democrats are and do.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 09:05

El Pollo Blanco: Jun 12, 2013; by sebmojo

Condiv posted:

the thing that gets me the most about blm is that they are doing exactly what we've said good protests should do for a long time. civil disobedience, no violence, etc. but people hate blm with a passion for protesting the way we say is the proper way to protest.

hell, even when it's not mass protest, just one football player kneeling during the pledge they get unbelievably angry

it just goes to show that people really really don't care about civil rights and don't want to have to think about it

The only way 'good' (good here means successful) protest works in a capitalist system is by causing economic disruption (MLK and other civil rights leaders understood this completely), currently BLM doesn't really protest with this as its primary focus, because to me it seems like BLM is not really an organisation with clear, decisive goals in regards to what protests actually mean.

Of course even more white people would hate blm activists if they focused on economic disruption, so god knows the answer there.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 09:06

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

The Muppets On PCP posted:

i know it's a rhetorical question but still

She's not wrong that protecting ACA should be the current legislative priority on healthcare and she's not wrong that single payer shouldn't be a litmus test.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 09:09

Inferior Third Season: Jan 15, 2005

Trabisnikof posted:

She's not wrong that protecting ACA should be the current legislative priority on healthcare and she's not wrong that single payer shouldn't be a litmus test.

Winning elections requires aspirational messages and for the entire party to be on the same page. Until the Dems regain power, "protecting ACA" and Medicare-for-all are both pipe dreams, so they may as well say they'll try to deliver what the base wants. Intra-party fighting is only going to hurt them.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 09:58

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Trabisnikof posted:

She's not wrong that protecting ACA should be the current legislative priority on healthcare and she's not wrong that single payer shouldn't be a litmus test.

it should actually

dems need to start actually pushing left and get us away from fascism, instead of cowering cause the repubs might call them socialist (which they do anyway)

# ? Sep 13, 2017 09:58

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

other things that should be litmus tests:

supporting ending civil forfeiture

legalizing marijuana

holding cops accountable for murdering innocent people

pushing hard on improving civil rights and fighting back on voter suppression and gerrymandering

Condiv fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Sep 13, 2017

# ? Sep 13, 2017 10:00

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

"Don't worry the dream of single payer isn't dead! ACA is merely the first step!"
"Okay now that we have ACA can we talk about single payer?"
"Single payer? Are you mad? We can't abandon the ACA!"

# ? Sep 13, 2017 10:01

The Muppets On PCP: Nov 13, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Trabisnikof posted:

She's not wrong that protecting ACA should be the current legislative priority on healthcare and she's not wrong that single payer shouldn't be a litmus test.

i mean sure if you never want to win a single chamber of legislature ever again that's correct

# ? Sep 13, 2017 10:41

Star Man: Jun 1, 2008; There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

El Pollo Blanco posted:

The only way 'good' (good here means successful) protest works in a capitalist system is by causing economic disruption (MLK and other civil rights leaders understood this completely), currently BLM doesn't really protest with this as its primary focus, because to me it seems like BLM is not really an organisation with clear, decisive goals in regards to what protests actually mean.

Of course even more white people would hate blm activists if they focused on economic disruption, so god knows the answer there.

I think I've heard that BLM is decentralized to prevent any named leaders from being targeted and hurt or kiloed.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 11:06

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Star Man posted:

I think I've heard that BLM is decentralized to prevent any named leaders from being targeted and hurt or kiloed.

yeah i've heard it too, and it makes sense considering what police did to people like fred hampton

# ? Sep 13, 2017 11:09

OtherworldlyInvader: Feb 10, 2005; The X-COM project did not deliver the universe's ultimate cup of coffee. You have failed to save the Earth.

I don't feel threatened walking past a statue of Jefferson, I do feel threatened (for good reason) walking past a confederate memorial. This is why confederate statues should be torn down. Almost without exception every historical figure was racist. What is is important is what causes people today hold them up to rally around. The Confederacy existed to perpetuate slavery and white supremacy, and the mass produced confederate statues of today exist to keep that legacy alive. I don't see Jefferson used in the same way.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 11:49

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Raskolnikov38 posted:

failing to recognize the humanity of their children because enslaving them netted him a four cent profit on nail production should be a hard pass on celebrating

Ugh yet another purity test from the "tolerant" left.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 11:59

There Bias Two: Jan 13, 2009; I'm not a good person

Raskolnikov38 posted:

failing to recognize the humanity of their children because enslaving them netted him a four cent profit on nail production should be a hard pass on celebrating

I think if you dig deep enough into every person's past actions, you'd find a reason to condemn almost each and every one of them. I don't think heroes really exist, at least not ones who are influential AND paragons of humanity in every way.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 12:07

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

OtherworldlyInvader posted:

I don't see Jefferson used in the same way.

Give it time.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 12:15

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

OtherworldlyInvader posted:

I don't feel threatened walking past a statue of Jefferson, I do feel threatened (for good reason) walking past a confederate memorial. This is why confederate statues should be torn down. Almost without exception every historical figure was racist. What is is important is what causes people today hold them up to rally around. The Confederacy existed to perpetuate slavery and white supremacy, and the mass produced confederate statues of today exist to keep that legacy alive. I don't see Jefferson used in the same way.

Heritage not hate? It's not a particularly convincing argument when "the south will rise again"ers argue it, but maybe you'll have better luck

# ? Sep 13, 2017 12:20

Moatman: Mar 21, 2014; Because the goof is all mine.

RuanGacho posted:

I'm generally of the mind that if something is held sacred you better be able to explain why and Jefferson is a great example of why you need to be willing to examine people held up as heroic.

We as a society need to be able to take the best of all of us and realize humans are not binary; there's a lot of people I hold in high regard but would never aspire to be myself because I have the gift of history and context to know where by our standards those people were lacking.

Jefferson doesn't even make my top 5, which as I think as an interesting point of discussion for USPOL would be the following:

5. Clair Cameron Patterson
4. Norman Borlaug
3. Fred Rogers
2. Albert Einstein
1. Ike Eisenhower

Each one of them could be considered heroes and yet the higher you get up on that list the more problematic things you can find. The more power they had in society, the more likely they did some heinous poo poo too, but that doesn't mean we don't try to repeat the good things.

I'm reminded of the statue of liberty, how the poem of The New Colossus I think is a perfect example of an ideal we must reach for, cherish and exalt, even if we've so far failed to make that ideal true for everyone, especially people of color.

Who else do people see as having done things worth emulating?

I'd be willing to put FDR in the top 5 but I don't know who on that list I'd replace him with.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 12:41

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Raskolnikov38 posted:

i mean if they're not utterly unreachable then talk to them about what jefferson did and the message that celebrating him sends to black people. either you'll get them thinking about it seriously and they'll come round or they were unreachable anyway

I suspect that in another twenty years, the general popular consensus will be similar to how he's presented in Hamilton, i.e., "Charming and likeable villain".

# ? Sep 13, 2017 13:08

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

Inferior Third Season posted:

Winning elections requires aspirational messages and for the entire party to be on the same page. Until the Dems regain power, "protecting ACA" and Medicare-for-all are both pipe dreams, so they may as well say they'll try to deliver what the base wants. Intra-party fighting is only going to hurt them.

Believe it or not, most politicians don't actually like to campaign on stuff they're never going to accomplish, and voters don't like when politicians cop out behind "hey it was aspirational, I was never planning to do it."

If you want an aspirational litmus test, you want something like, "affordable universal health care", not "10% of a specific proposal, we'll figure it out later but definitely include this stuff that may or may not be workable."

# ? Sep 13, 2017 13:46

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

This is the most "Local News Headline + Photo" thing I've ever seen.

https://twitter.com/WNEP/status/907817378754547713

# ? Sep 13, 2017 13:57

OtherworldlyInvader: Feb 10, 2005; The X-COM project did not deliver the universe's ultimate cup of coffee. You have failed to save the Earth.

Inescapable Duck posted:

Give it time.

Pretty much anything can be turned into a hate symbol, for sure.

Moatman posted:

I'd be willing to put FDR in the top 5 but I don't know who on that list I'd replace him with.

I was gonna use FDR as an example in the Jefferson thing. FDR was a racist, and is also lionized by the left. What do we gain and what do we lose if we tear his legacy down?

# ? Sep 13, 2017 13:59

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Ultra Carp

The key difference between someone like Lee and Jefferson is that Jefferson, though he was a slaveowner and a tremendous hypocrite, had many accomplishments outside of that-and no matter how he failed to live up to his own words, the core truth of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness," was incredibly revolutionary and influential, inspiring independence movements across the globe and men as diverse as Simon Bolivar and Ho Chi Minh. Lee's accomplishments, meanwhile, are entirely wrapped around his actions during the Civil War, and have little-to-no context outside of that. If you see a statue of Thomas Jefferson, it could have been put up for a number of reasons in a number of places-hell, there's even one in the Smithsonian's Museum of African American History and Culture. Meanwhile, if you walk past a statue of Lee, if you're not on an actual Civil War battlefield (And even then...) there's a guaranteed chance it was put up by white supremacists/Confederacy apologists. There's just nothing else.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 14:21

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Ultra Carp

OtherworldlyInvader posted:

I was gonna use FDR as an example in the Jefferson thing. FDR was a racist, and is also lionized by the left. What do we gain and what do we lose if we tear his legacy down?

It's all about context and how it's presented. We should remember and celebrate people's accomplishments, but also never forget their failings. For someone like Jefferson, talking about the Declaration and Sally Hemmings should go hand-in-hand. For FDR, it's Japanese Internment and the Four Freedoms. History is a constant struggle for improvement, and by forgetting our faults, we're merely papering over a shoddy foundation instead of working to actively repair it.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 14:25

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

Trabisnikof posted:

She's not wrong that protecting ACA should be the current legislative priority on healthcare and she's not wrong that single payer shouldn't be a litmus test.

ACA is unsustainable garbage

# ? Sep 13, 2017 14:27

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

This is the most "Local News Headline + Photo" thing I've ever seen.

https://twitter.com/WNEP/status/907817378754547713

Looks kinda like John Oliver

# ? Sep 13, 2017 14:28

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# ? May 24, 2024 00:58

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

There Bias Two posted:

I think if you dig deep enough into every person's past actions, you'd find a reason to condemn almost each and every one of them. I don't think heroes really exist, at least not ones who are influential AND paragons of humanity in every way.

Pal, there's a bit of a difference between somebody being a douchebag at some point in their life and somebody who literally enslaved their own children.

# ? Sep 13, 2017 14:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL: Pulitzer Feeling Increasingly Out Of Place In New York Times Office

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