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Please explain to me how streaming/let's plays are significantly different from things like rifftracks and mst3k in the form of entertainment they provide. Also, why is there no value in watching skilled players of games perform, i.e. pro-gamer streams and speed runs, TIA
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Sep 13, 2017 22:25
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The worst submarine posted:hm i feel like you have a good post but presented in the wrong format, maybe you could film yourself in a costume and link it here? What gets me about all the excuses for the sign, which all boil down to "He's just demonstrating how crazy this is!", is he could have done that without resorting to racist humor. He could have paid them to hold up a crude drawing of a cock, or maybe just the word "penis" if that's too on the nose. But no, he chose "Kill all Jews" because he's a loving moron.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:26
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boner confessor posted:i assume you're not going to go back and read my posts where i talk about exactly this, rather than just jumping in without context and assuming i'm saying something i'm not, so i'll just respond to you by quoting myself from the last page (easily checkable imo) That doesn't make it not a job for people who do make a living off of it. Any sort of self-employment runs the risk of you not making money, whether it's streaming or running a business or producing art. There are plenty of artists who don't make a living off of their drawings and have to sustain themselves with other work, that doesn't make the artists that do live off their art full-time somehow not have a job.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:And I content that this is bull loving poo poo with nothing to back it up other than your bias. Isn't the problem that there isn't much distinction right now between the professionals (i.e. folks doing this for money and able to it as a career) and amateurs/semipros (people doing it for enjoyment or as a small bit of side money) right now? I'd figure that even in the wild west of this kind of content, you aren't any more likely to get full-time successful at streaming, podcasting, or doing any of this other web 2.0 stuff than you are being a TV star. The only difference is that you can get maybe side-hustle level of cash out of it much more easily, meaning that it can be a hobby that either pays for itself or just breaks even. I expect that the adpocalypse is going to be the gaming crash of this generation, and it's going to push a lot of content of all kinds out. I expect by next year we won't be hearing about much of the alt right stuff on YouTube anymore, since if the money disappears that motivation for people to make two hour rambles about white genocide will pretty quickly vanish. This garbage about "useful" work is based on an arbitrary value of useful. Though I'll also say I'm not without a bias since a buddy and I have been tossing around the idea of doing a comic book podcast as a fun thing to pass time-- wild financial success would be covering all the hosting and production costs, including the booze consumed during taping. boner confessor posted:my point is that it's not a job if the vast majority of people who set out to do it for a living fail to make a living. there's not a lot of people out there clocking in at starbucks who are failing to make money at the end of the day. on the spectrum of "actual paid labor" to "don't kid yourself into thinking this will earn money" video game streaming is somewhere near cosplay accessory maker Under that stricture, lots of things people do and make huge amounts of money off of aren't real jobs. Careers like actor, professional athlete, or astronaut fall into the same category of being something you can do professionally but are also aren't something you have to be very lucky to be able to make a living at. It's not something we should tell kids is easily achievable, but it's also not something that's actually impossible either.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:30
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Refried Hero posted:Please explain to me how streaming/let's plays are significantly different from things like rifftracks and mst3k in the form of entertainment they provide. Rifftrax (Usually) don't include the actual IP/video that they're basing their commentary on in the thing that they're selling/marketing to people. It's kind of the reason that the IP owners have a legal leg to stand on at all and why LP's have always been kind of a weird legal grey area because no one wants to be the first bit of case law and lose one way or the other.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:31
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Refried Hero posted:Please explain to me how streaming/let's plays are significantly different from things like rifftracks and mst3k in the form of entertainment they provide. Also, why is there no value in watching skilled players of games perform, i.e. pro-gamer streams and speed runs, TIA my point is the volume of it - for every successful rifftrax there's a dozen or more lovely knockoffs. for everyone doing a speedrun of fallout 4 and showcasing glitches there's who knows how many people putting a ~wacky~ spin on a standard playthrough the large volume of just garbage is why it's silly to describe this activity as a job when for most people it isn't, as much as they would like it to be - a discussion we've had many times itt regarding the demonetization of youtube videos and the entitlement some independent pundits have regarding the living youtube owes them for sharing their bold opinions about black people via webcam again, here's the post which kicked this discussion off Gorn Myson posted:To be honest, the weirdest thing for me out of all of this are the people who think that sitting around recording yourself playing video games all day is a noble, hardworking job. are there a handful of people who work at this and make money doing it? yes are there a giant number of people who lazily halfass it and describe themselves as content creators while pretending their hobby is employment? double yes just because some goons have gone on to become bloggers, do you think it would be accurate for me to describe my dozens of posts a day on this site as a job? and in terms of the entertainment they provide, the people who can't make any money aren't providing entertainment - because nobody is watching. or they provide entertainment in the "wrong" way via mockery, aka this thread
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Sep 13, 2017 22:33
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If you make money from some work that you do that's a job. It doesn't have to support you by itself would you say a single mother working two positions to pay rent and feed and clothe her child has no job?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:33
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i'm mostly just jelly of awful and uninteresting people being able to make a job of just playing video games all day while i gotta toil away. pewdiepie is awful and is the number one youtuber. the number one hearthstone streamer is an uggo with a bad voice and no screen presence. i don't get how any of this works! none of it makes sense!
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Sep 13, 2017 22:33
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boner confessor posted:just because some goons have gone on to become bloggers, do you think it would be accurate for me to describe my dozens of posts a day on this site as a job? But if you got paid for it, I would say you are doing it as a job. Doing a thing and getting money for it is... like the definition of a job?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:36
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someone please alert trump to instruct the bureau of labor statistics to publish the huge, unprecedented employment gains this quarter in the new "masturbating while smoking weed" sector. why unemployment is in the negatives! america is finally great again!
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Sep 13, 2017 22:36
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Refried Hero posted:But if you got paid for it, I would say you are doing it as a job. Doing a thing and getting money for it is... like the definition of a job? there are some who make money at it, there are some who don't. an argument used earlier was "work doesn't have to pay to be productive labor" OwlFancier posted:The idea of valuable work being only what you can get paid to do is the kind of nonsense I expect to hear from the subjects of the thread not the posters in it. at a certain point when you're not making any money, and nobody is watching you do it, and you're not saying anything innovative or interesting... at what point do you stop being a hardworking content creator in the new economy, versus some schmo playing video games by themselves?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:37
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If people are making money at it then it's a job if many people are doing a same or similar job you have an industry an industry can have people both working and earning and people who are amateurs wanting their big break. Does the existence of amatur dramatics mean that paid stage acting isn't a job? Does the existence of lovely student film mean film making isn't a job? V Population density is low
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Sep 13, 2017 22:39
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Pewds must know golden one, right? I feel like Sweden's the kind of small place where you can't avoid seeing everyone whenever you go down to the corner store.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:39
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boner confessor posted:there are some who make money at it, there are some who don't. an argument used earlier was "work doesn't have to pay to be productive labor" And the people who aren't getting paid are doing it as a hobby. That does not in any way shape or form invalidate the idea that not all work has to be productive. I mean, I generally get where you are coming from, but I would seriously doubt that the people who make youtube videos or stream and aren't making money on it would call it a job, and this need to distinguish job from hobby just feels weird and unnecessary.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:40
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Someday the bottom is going to fall out of this craze and a lot of these guys are going to have to explain a multiyear gap in employment history. "Yeah I was jerking off and playing video games! That qualifies me for a position in management right?"
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Sep 13, 2017 22:40
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Rumda posted:If people are making money at it then it's a job if many people are doing a same or similar job you have an industry an industry can have people both working and earning and people who are amateurs wanting their big break. ah good to know i'm not a random shitposter, i'm a hardworking entrepreneur waiting for his big break in the political humor blog world Refried Hero posted:And the people who aren't getting paid are doing it as a hobby. That does not in any way shape or form invalidate the idea that not all work has to be productive. I mean, I generally get where you are coming from, but I would seriously doubt that the people who make youtube videos or stream and aren't making money on it would call it a job, and this need to distinguish job from hobby just feels weird and unnecessary. if it's not productive, and you don't get paid for it, is it really work? i agree this conversation is weird and unnecessary but it seems to be something many people don't like hearing and also, it is vitally important for my future career writing op-eds for the new york times and if you stop responding to me, i WILL sue you
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Sep 13, 2017 22:40
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Casimir Radon posted:Someday the bottom is going to fall out of this craze and a lot of these guys are going to have to explain a multiyear gap in employment history. Well, if the content still exists online, you could always say you worked on video/audio editing during that time, hoping to break big. Like, this isn't some crazy gotcha you seem to think it is if you have the content still and aren't a total shitlord as part of that content.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:42
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boner confessor posted:ah good to know i'm not a random shitposter, i'm a hardworking entrepreneur waiting for his big break in the political humor blog world And your existence as lovely and painful to your audience as it is doesn't mean people that actually get paid for humourous political commentary don't have a job.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:43
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Casimir Radon posted:Someday the bottom is going to fall out of this craze and a lot of these guys are going to have to explain a multiyear gap in employment history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKQyPfN6s88
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Sep 13, 2017 22:43
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boner confessor posted:if it's not productive, and you don't get paid for it, is it really work? i agree this conversation is weird and unnecessary but it seems to be something many people don't like hearing and also, it is vitally important for my future career writing op-eds for the new york times and if you stop responding to me, i WILL sue you Probably could fall under the same area as unpaid internships if you are leveraging your skills at video/audio editing to make quality content - which could, in theory, lead to a job in the future. EDIT: I do not condone unpaid or really any internships
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Sep 13, 2017 22:44
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Casimir Radon posted:Someday the bottom is going to fall out of this craze and a lot of these guys are going to have to explain a multiyear gap in employment history. No but it may qualify you for a presentation gig or an editing job.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:44
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Refried Hero posted:Well, if the content still exists online, you could always say you worked on video/audio editing during that time, hoping to break big. Like, this isn't some crazy gotcha you seem to think it is if you have the content still and aren't a total shitlord as part of that content.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:45
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Refried Hero posted:Well, if the content still exists online, you could always say you worked on video/audio editing during that time, hoping to break big. Like, this isn't some crazy gotcha you seem to think it is if you have the content still and aren't a total shitlord as part of that content. this is a crucial distinction, because video editor is an actual job many people get paid to do more than freelance video game streamer, and the video game streamers who make it big put a lot of work into their videos the redlettermedia guys (was getting tired of waiting for someone to bring them up) literally film themselves watching movies and then film themselves discussing movies, but the productive part is that they use editing to create something funny that's beyond just mumbling into a camera. all of us have watched lets plays i'm sure - how many of those lets plays are good and worth recommending, versus being just painful slogs of bad voiced nerds repeating pop culture references to each other? and as to "who out there is sucking at this but describing it as their job" again look at the uproar from youtube demonetization and the folks asserting their livelihoods will be or were damaged boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 22:46
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How many painful robotic student plays and films have you seen?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:48
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Rumda posted:How many painful robotic student plays and films have you seen? haha enough for two loving lifetimes, hell i've been in more than my share
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Sep 13, 2017 22:49
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boner confessor posted:this is a crucial distinction, because video editor is an actual job many people get paid to do more than freelance video game streamer, and the video game streamers who make it big put a lot of work into their videos We are kinda talking past each other here, I agree that most LP and stream content is garbage that doesn't deserve to be called a job. Sometimes it's bad because the person is lazy, other times it's bad because the person doesn't know enough about how to produce video yet. There are, however, many let's players that put in the effort of creating good content, usually with careful editing, that combines (at the very least) decent gameplay with an either comedic or informative bent to the commentary. That takes a lot of effort and time to do well.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:50
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Grouchio posted:I have a bad feeling that the reaction to Pewds' most recent racist comment is going to spark a witch-hunt that turns Youtube into a nanny-state site. Oh no, racists and bigots will be made to feel unwelcome on YouTube. How awful.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:52
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boner confessor posted:at a certain point when you're not making any money, and nobody is watching you do it, and you're not saying anything innovative or interesting... at what point do you stop being a hardworking content creator in the new economy, versus some schmo playing video games by themselves? Do you think that social interaction is useful work?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:53
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Here's the thing you seem to miss Boner people can have more than one job. A moderately successful YouTube channel could easily supplement a more traditional job but they both still count as a job if you put work into them and money comes out.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:55
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Refried Hero posted:There are, however, many let's players that put in the effort of creating good content, usually with careful editing, that combines (at the very least) decent gameplay with an either comedic or informative bent to the commentary. That takes a lot of effort and time to do well. i completely agree, but of the small portion of video game players who clear this hurdle of creating entertaining and watchable content, how many get paid to do it as full time employment? and of the folks in the other category - not entertaining, don't get paid - they would be inaccurate if they described themselves as being employed. i'd wager there are more wannabees and neverwills who say this is they job than there are people actually employed by streaming OwlFancier posted:Do you think that social interaction is useful work? not always, because a lot of social interaction (especially on the internet) can be toxic or harmful sargon pontificating on the laziness of nonwhites is definitely social interaction, after all
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Sep 13, 2017 22:55
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Who What Now posted:Oh no, racists and bigots will be made to feel unwelcome on YouTube. How awful. I said it earlier but also LOL at the idea of corporation flexing control over the IPs they own having anything to do with the State. Grouchio you're a dang dingus.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:55
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boner confessor posted:not always, because a lot of social interaction (especially on the internet) can be toxic or harmful But, I mean, you appear to be trying to class social interaction that doesn't make you money as being useless because it doesn't make you money. Whereas what carl does certainly does make money and is still pretty bad.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:00
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OwlFancier posted:But, I mean, you appear to be trying to class social interaction that doesn't make you money as being useless because it doesn't make you money. i'm saying it's not a job, because it doesn't make you money. then the idea came up that you don't have to get paid for it to be productive work, and i'm asserting that somewhere on the spectrum of "film myself playing video games" there's a point where it's not productive and it's just people filming themselves doing their hobby so that other people can maybe watch and maybe throw a buck in the tip jar. and at the lowest point of that spectrum where someone has so little audience that basically nobody watches them ( i work with a guy who streams dutifully to a crowd of 0 persons every weekend) then you're not even engaged in work at all and you're just doing your thing, aka leisure time it's like all i have to do is hook up a webcam to broadcast myself eating dinner and hey, i have suddenly transformed myself into a content creator who is engaged in socially beneficial labor instead of basic self care and maintenance
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Sep 13, 2017 23:02
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If I was in a pub and I got chatting to someone and I asked them what they did for a living, and they replied "oh I sit in front of a camera and play video games all day, you friend of the family", I'd probably think they were worthless regardless of how much they earn.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:08
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Ytlaya posted:Nope, that's the same thing because you would still need to explain why black people respond to welfare/whatever by becoming "lazy" and other races don't. Ultimately they would always need to explain why black people are having these issues, and any explanation that doesn't involve structural/systemic issues outside their control inevitably comes down to some innate racial difference. I don't think an alt-lite person would be an alt-lite person were they able to follow a simple line of logical reasoning. They more likely just fall into a circle: Alt-lite Person: Black people are lazy because they receive more money from government programs Someone else: Why do they receive more money? Alt-lite Person: Because they're poorer. Someone else: Why are they poorer? Alt-lite Person: Because they are lazy. Someone else: Why are they lazy? Alt-lite Person: Black people are lazy because they receive more money from government programs Someone else: Why do they receive more money? Alt-lite Person: Because they're poorer. Someone else: Why are they poorer? Alt-lite Person: Because they are lazy. Someone else: Why are they lazy? ...and so on.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:09
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While streaming to literally zero people is functionally an elaborate form of solitary leisure, streaming, or recording for one other person is providing some use to that one other person. And, well, we already have some rather poor attitudes towards people who spend a lot of their time providing small amounts of fulfillment to solitary people... I would venture that anybody you actually watch has probably provided something of value to a few hundred people, and that's arguably as much of a worthwhile use of their time as me visiting an elderly relative is.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:09
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Gorn Myson posted:If I was in a pub and I got chatting to someone and I asked them what they did for a living, and they replied "oh I sit in front of a camera and play video games all day, you friend of the family", I'd probably think they were worthless regardless of how much they earn. And if I walk up to a police officer and said I spend all day selling drugs to students I'd be arrested.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:10
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OwlFancier posted:I would venture that anybody you actually watch has probably provided something of value to a few hundred people, and that's arguably as much of a worthwhile use of their time as me visiting an elderly relative is. thanks for supporting my posting, friend  HMU on paypal if you like this fresh content!!!
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Sep 13, 2017 23:14
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boner confessor posted:thanks for supporting my posting, friend Who decides what is valuable though? I am mostly with you on this, but it feels like you are arbitrarily denying value to entertainment that doesn't have value to you personally, but might have value to others.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:21
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If it's their primary source of income, it's a job. Doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:22
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