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Everything I've read about Dresden Files seems like some fun supernatural ideas with the main character being probably the least interesting and original thing about it. Also, every setting's Lovecraft ripoff ancient reality-destroying abominations always seem to be infinitely more boring conceptually than anything Lovecraft ever wrote. Even the black people.
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Sep 14, 2017 06:04
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Inescapable Duck posted:Everything I've read about Dresden Files seems like some fun supernatural ideas with the main character being probably the least interesting and original thing about it. Dresden is an aquired taste. It is Urban Fantasy Ramen. It starts generic and gets better in book 3. For Lovecraft I would recommend either Lovecraft Country or the updated Beast of Red Hook.
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Sep 14, 2017 06:12
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Dresden Files is straight up modern-day pulp. As in cheap disposable fiction writtent competently but workmanlike, with an emphasis on sex, violence, and the lurid. It's the 21st Century nerd equivalent of Doc Savage. They're fun, have only a few creepy/messed up moments (in urban fantasy overall getting sex stuff pretty OK is a BIG accomplishment. I mean, he unilaterally equates rape with evil fuckers, and actively discourages sex that isn't between two equals with total consent between them) but I wouldn't call it fine lit, but poo poo man there's so much worse it's not even worth picking on them. Can I just say though, gently caress the Magicians I have no idea why people like that garbo series. I think it's cause they're brain-damaged and think DARK+CHILDRENS THING= GOOD because Christ Harry Potter as a useless whiny rear end in a top hat in Narnia is not fun it's loving tedious. Characters basically never develop, interesting relationships are thrown in the garbage so people can act like mindless fucks because they have to be miserable, there's like 5 different series worth of concepts and ideas crammed together and barely developed, a giant magic furry rapes a woman to death, and gently caress Quentin I was waiting three books for you not to be useless and you hosed IT. Why couldn't we read about the cool gay wizard with relationship issues? He was more interesting. Or just have the superfluous add-on main character from the third book be there the whole time because goddamn she was just shoved in there.
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Sep 14, 2017 06:24
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The TV series for The Magicians is pretty decent and I couldn't get fifteen pages into the novels after I watched that. Everyone had to have snarky loving one liners and the writing was bad on top of that and loving hell man urban fantasy is my guilty pleasure give me something.
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Sep 14, 2017 07:05
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Inescapable Duck posted:Everything I've read about Dresden Files seems like some fun supernatural ideas with the main character being probably the least interesting and original thing about it
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Sep 14, 2017 07:10
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Wapole Languray posted:Dresden Files is straight up modern-day pulp. As in cheap disposable fiction writtent competently but workmanlike, with an emphasis on sex, violence, and the lurid. It's the 21st Century nerd equivalent of Doc Savage. They're fun, have only a few creepy/messed up moments (in urban fantasy overall getting sex stuff pretty OK is a BIG accomplishment. I mean, he unilaterally equates rape with evil fuckers, and actively discourages sex that isn't between two equals with total consent between them) but I wouldn't call it fine lit, but poo poo man there's so much worse it's not even worth picking on them. It's not just kid stuff but daarrrk; it's a pretty biting takedown of a certain kind of children's lit. Or at least the first one was. I never got around to more of it because I feared lovely characters remaining lovely because the author just thinks it's more fun to write the flagellation of assholes over character growth.
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Sep 14, 2017 08:12
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It's not "a biting takedown of a certain kind of children's lit", it's a dude who thinks he's doing that but comes off as babby's first criticism of "chosen one" fiction filled with his own uncomfortable fixations that make it way worse than the most tepid narnia ripoff, because at least the narnia ripoff doesn't have furry demon rape and characters that can't pull themselves out of their asses ~because, like, they're not special, man, I'm making a literary point~.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:02
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Wapole Languray posted:Dresden Files is straight up modern-day pulp. As in cheap disposable fiction writtent competently but workmanlike, with an emphasis on sex, violence, and the lurid. It's the 21st Century nerd equivalent of Doc Savage. They're fun, have only a few creepy/messed up moments (in urban fantasy overall getting sex stuff pretty OK is a BIG accomplishment. I mean, he unilaterally equates rape with evil fuckers, and actively discourages sex that isn't between two equals with total consent between them) but I wouldn't call it fine lit, but poo poo man there's so much worse it's not even worth picking on them. Dresden Files is basically the fast-food equivalent of urban fantasy. Not high literature by any means and in some ways pretty bad, but generally quite entertaining and very well-paced. When I find myself finished with a book series and unsure what to read next, I often pick those back up. They're just plain fun to read and you can blast through each book in a couple of days easy. And as for The Magicians, I basically nope'd right out of there after the second graphic furry sex/rape scene. Once is a mistake, twice is a pattern.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:23
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Dresden also has the protagonist try to do the whole "chivalrous male" thing and get repeatedly shut down by strong female characters who think he's an idiot until he finally stops.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:37
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PJOmega posted:So you're saying this... What do you even get out of this? He's the same angry dork in that post whether he's mad about one book or two. Sham bam bamina! has a new favorite as of 13:52 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 12:47
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People seem to be insanely insecure about Dresden Files being terrible.
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Sep 14, 2017 13:18
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chitoryu12 posted:Dresden also has the protagonist try to do the whole "chivalrous male" thing and get repeatedly shut down by strong female characters who think he's an idiot until he finally stops. Are the female characters still boiled down to Madonna/Whore stereotypes? Butcher is hardly as egregious about it as most urban fantasy writers, but after seven? (or is it twelve?) books worth of the tough lady cop with a sword or a demon sidekick who he won't sleep with can he write past "strong female character?" Apologies if I'm remembering wrong, it's been a long time since I attempted to read the books when my peer group wouldn't stop loving talking about how supposedly great they were (book 1, which I know is the worst one, got thrown against a wall after the first chapter). BravestOfTheLamps posted:People seem to be insanely insecure about Dresden Files being terrible. I think this applies to most entertainment that folks identify with; in the case of Dresden Files I think a lot of guys identify with Harry Dresden because unlike Doc Savage (I think that's a really apt comparison btw Wapole) he's an imperfect guy trying to do the right thing, he just gets to do so with magic and vampires and reanimated dinosaur skeletons. I think people, and straight, cis men especially, dislike being challenged about their entertainment because they equate criticism with "you fail as/are less of a person for enjoying this." Which is funny because for all the scoffing at teenage girls for enjoying Twilight or The Hunger Games, those are also urban fantasy power trips (yes, Twilight - Edward all but disappears from the books once Bella becomes an uber-vampire).
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Sep 14, 2017 13:42
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so uh is this kind of intense aversion to just walking away from a perceived slight with a "lol ok" typical to this subforum?
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Sep 14, 2017 13:45
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The Dresden Files get a pass from me because every character rightly and openly identifies Harry as an idiot. Also IIRC the latest one had the goofy mortician turn into a skateboarder who hangs out with the talking skull all the time, they're fun pulp that really doesn't take itself seriously. ...if you want something by Butcher that DOES take itself seriously I've heard his pet project fantasy series is brainmeltingly bad.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:02
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food court bailiff posted:...if you want something by Butcher that DOES take itself seriously I've heard his pet project fantasy series is brainmeltingly bad. The steampunk one?
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Sep 14, 2017 14:03
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Are the female characters still boiled down to Madonna/Whore stereotypes? Butcher is hardly as egregious about it as most urban fantasy writers, but after seven? (or is it twelve?) books worth of the tough lady cop with a sword or a demon sidekick who he won't sleep with can he write past "strong female character?" Apologies if I'm remembering wrong, it's been a long time since I attempted to read the books when my peer group wouldn't stop loving talking about how supposedly great they were (book 1, which I know is the worst one, got thrown against a wall after the first chapter). I don't really get how Murphy or Susan are Madonna/Whore stereotypes. His hangups about a relationship with them are personal ones (in the case of Susan, she's a vampire who would probably kill him in a rage if they had sex) rather than viewing them as a whore if they have sex. As far as I can remember, he doesn't even try to get in a relationship with any of the other female characters, pretty much all of whom are depicted as just as tough or tougher than all the male characters.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:04
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Wheat Loaf posted:The steampunk one? I don't know, it's the Something Codex I think? There was a really brief excerpt I read somewhere a long time ago and it sucked.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:05
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His Furies(?) series, where everyone has magic Pokemon to do their work for them, was pretty bad. Lots of dumb plot twists and one-dimensional characters and then the Zerg showed up I guess?
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Sep 14, 2017 14:13
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food court bailiff posted:I don't know, it's the Something Codex I think? There was a really brief excerpt I read somewhere a long time ago and it sucked. Oh, yeah, Codex Alera. That's the one he wrote because he'd always wanted to write a swords and horses medieval fantasy story. I know I read it but can only remember little of it. I believe the premise he gave when he pitched it was something to the effect of "lost Roman legion meets Pokémon".
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Sep 14, 2017 14:14
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food court bailiff posted:I don't know, it's the Something Codex I think? There was a really brief excerpt I read somewhere a long time ago and it sucked. Codex Alera. I haven't read it, though from what I've heard it's intensely bland. I have read the the steampunk one, Aeronaut's Windlass, though I don't really remember anything too remarkable from it except that some of its gimmicks (Cats can talk and are super catty and arrogant! All the magic users have super weird mental quirks!) got pretty played out in a hurry.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:21
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Wheat Loaf posted:I believe the premise he gave when he pitched it was something to the effect of "lost Roman legion meets Pokémon". See, that sounds like it should be as fun as people find Dresden Files. How did he screw that up? Passion project with too much passion, not enough project?
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Sep 14, 2017 14:21
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Wheat Loaf posted:Oh, yeah, Codex Alera. That's the one he wrote because he'd always wanted to write a swords and horses medieval fantasy story. I know I read it but can only remember little of it. I believe the premise he gave when he pitched it was something to the effect of "lost Roman legion meets Pokémon". IIRC, he didn't pitch it as that - he asked for two random topics on a dare and those were the two he got, and it went from a single book to a series somehow. Windlass is loving terrible.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:58
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I still haven't found the steampunk anthology book in my things, but I did find this excerpt in my imgur account: To be charitable to a book that doesn't deserve it, that story was the worst. Okay maybe like tied for worst between that, the anime airship story, and the fourth grade reading level story about a paranormal detective dog.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:46
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:See, that sounds like it should be as fun as people find Dresden Files. How did he screw that up? Passion project with too much passion, not enough project? I don't think he messed it up, it really is as fun as Dresden Files. It's not, you know, a great literary or high fantasy classic, but they're well written, pulpy stories. People who don't like Dresden Files aren't going to like Codex Alera for pretty much the same reasons. But by all accounts, his steampunk series is garbage.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:07
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The Dresden Files series is easily one of the worst things I have ever read and also one of the most consistently entertaining These two things are not mutually exclusive.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:32
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:See, that sounds like it should be as fun as people find Dresden Files. How did he screw that up? Passion project with too much passion, not enough project? People should really realize that Dresden Files was kind of an accident, he wrote the first book to be absolutely generic genre tripe after getting upset that his ~~unique genius~~ wasn't appreciated, and his editor/professor/whatever ended up loving it and getting it published. The working title was SEMIAUTOMAGIC (which is a rad as hell title). I wasn't like being facetious or anything about Harry Dresden being written as an idiot, Butcher genuinely seems to have started the whole series with a ton of contempt. It just kind of happens to "work" anyway because it's fun reading about an awkward Star Wars fanboy wizard fighting mystical wars against soul vampires and evil fairies in Chicago. e: the 'big twist' of the latest Dresden book basically boils down to him managing to NOT utterly gently caress everything up for once
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Sep 14, 2017 16:33
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I was soured on The Magicians because all the early praise I heard from people was couched in a "It's Harry Potter for *smart people*" tone that I found obnoxious, and I'm a contrary bastard who will take any opportunity to not do something the "cool kids" are doing. It's a flaw, but I enjoyed the books I read instead, so it all worked out. As for Jim Butcher, I love the Dresden Files even though I know it's basically popcorn (and occasionally the kind with the fake butter that's basically cheap lard). Codex Alera was disappointingly bland, and the first book in that steampunk series felt like more of the same (although I did like the cat).
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Sep 15, 2017 00:03
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Senior Woodchuck posted:I was soured on The Magicians because all the early praise I heard from people was couched in a "It's Harry Potter for *smart people*" tone that I found obnoxious Wait till you hear about Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:16
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Senior Woodchuck posted:the first book in that steampunk series felt like more of the same (although I did like the cat). That cat was the most fleshed out and consistent character in the whole drat book.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:18
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I've got to second the "for once the TV show is actually way better" opinion re: The Magicians. I had the same problem, I couldn't manage to read the books after watching the first two seasons of the show, because the show took a sharp left early on and largely ignored most of the books, and ended up better for it. The books are super pretentious and Quentin is somehow even more of a whiny moron and ugh. No.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:18
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How do you people go outside
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Sep 15, 2017 00:24
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TheKennedys posted:I've got to second the "for once the TV show is actually way better" opinion re: The Magicians. I had the same problem, I couldn't manage to read the books after watching the first two seasons of the show, because the show took a sharp left early on and largely ignored most of the books, and ended up better for it. The books are super pretentious and Quentin is somehow even more of a whiny moron and ugh. No. Books can't be pretentious, that's not a real criticism
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Sep 15, 2017 00:25
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Hate Fibration posted:The Dresden Files series is easily one of the worst things I have ever read and also one of the most consistently entertaining And that's fine. Hell, I enjoyed listening to James Marsters do the audio books on a series of long rear end drives. There's a difference that more people need to learn between "I enjoyed this" and "this is good." Though the book that didn't have Spike as the audiobook voice was painful to get through, and I don't know if that was because of the book or the voice.
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Sep 15, 2017 01:53
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Trauma Dog 3000 posted:How do you people go outside I use either my front or back door, assuming you mean when I'm at home and want to go outside.
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Sep 15, 2017 02:33
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I like to put on flip flops even when the weather isn't good for flip flops 
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Sep 15, 2017 03:35
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Trauma Dog 3000 posted:Books can't be pretentious, that's not a real criticism The only non-pretentious art form is lewd public restroom graffiti.
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Sep 15, 2017 03:44
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Djeser posted:I still haven't found the steampunk anthology book in my things, but I did find this excerpt in my imgur account: TheKennedys posted:I've got to second the "for once the TV show is actually way better" opinion re: The Magicians. Trauma Dog 3000 posted:Books can't be pretentious, that's not a real criticism
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Sep 15, 2017 05:19
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PJOmega posted:And that's fine. Hell, I enjoyed listening to James Marsters do the audio books on a series of long rear end drives. There's a difference that more people need to learn between "I enjoyed this" and "this is good." They had Marsters re-read it and it's not appreciably better.
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Sep 15, 2017 05:33
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FreudianSlippers posted:The only non-pretentious art form is lewd public restroom graffiti. Clearly, someone has never been to the Tate Modern. No, this isn't me cracking wise about their exhibits - the bathroom graffiti there is legit something else.
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Sep 15, 2017 12:40
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Trauma Dog 3000 posted:How do you people go outside I only go because it's the only way I can get money for more books.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:56
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