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Ostentatious posted:same dude also said persona 4 was transphobic because naoto and i disagree entirely w/ it Yeah I think reading Naoto as trans is really grasping, though Persona 4 is even worse with the gay panic poo poo than Persona 5 with how it treats Kanji. Both games are still excellent, though I can understand being really put off by those parts and how the games each have a scene or two where they treat homosexuality as a joke and something threatening. Also Persona 5's best NPC is a drag queen named Lala Escargot who should've been a social link 
Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 14:45
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thinking back to the end p5 when real igor is back and he's got the voice ah...... nirvana.....
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Sep 14, 2017 14:50
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oddium posted:thinking back to the end p5 when real igor is back and he's got the voice me, except "I am the FBI"
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Sep 14, 2017 14:51
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I think the transphobia reading would come from the fact that Naoto's psychological problems appear come from wanting to become a man but when she makes peace with herself it's just about her wanting to achieve success in a male-dominated profession despite her gender, which is certainly progressive but then also codes the "transformation" stuff as bad. Also Yosuke is a piece of poo poo
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Sep 14, 2017 14:51
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I think the transphobia reading would come from the fact that Naoto's psychological problems appear come from wanting to become a man but when she makes peace with herself it's just about her wanting to achieve success in a male-dominated profession despite her gender, which is certainly progressive but then also codes the "transformation" stuff as bad. yeah like i dont want to seem like im just defending persona 4 or 5 endlessly, there are some big problems with how they handle poo poo in their games but i dont think the games aggressively falls apart because of a few really bad bits of character building. i always read naotos story as overcoming adversity as a female in a male dominated workplace/society which is a strong message especially in a place like japan. i think if you made her trans it would have read as 'conforming to what society wants her to be' and it falls apart.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:57
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Remember in persona 2 when you could be gay and it was just a real casual like "yeah I'm gay"
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Sep 14, 2017 15:00
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FirstAidKite posted:Remember in persona 2 when you could be gay and it was just a real casual like "yeah I'm gay"
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Sep 14, 2017 15:01
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its better than persona 1
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Sep 14, 2017 15:03
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Nate RFB posted:I really wish more people would play Persona 2. The gameplay is fine you wusses!! It's really not I mean it's better than P1 but that was about as fun as trying to hold your hand on a hot plate
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Sep 14, 2017 15:03
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don't take it persona lly hahahha
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Sep 14, 2017 15:04
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The extent of it was just "hey which of your friends do you love" and you could pick the guy and the guy loved you back and that was it, nothing more, nothing less. What are rpgs with good depictions of gay characters? Good in this case being defined as "not gay panic oh-no-what-if-I'm-gay" poo poo and also the gayness not being the source of antagonism with a character. I really wanna say shadow hearts covenant but I feel like I'm just lying to myself, even though Joachim is definitely really gay and his entire questline is most definitely gay, but not treated as bad, and then there is the gay porn sidequest that nets you additional outfits from the tailor brothers who collect the gay porn in exchange for making new dresses for your puppet.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:06
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idk about P3 but personally I can't go back to P4 after P5. The quality of life improvements were so good, I could never see myself doing those braindead corridor dungeons from P4 ever again. It took way too long to get through Persona 4 Golden due to how mind-numbing the actual combat was, at least for P5 they cut down on summon animation, gave you shortcuts, and put actualy effort into the Palaces. also Ryuji is better than Yosuke
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Sep 14, 2017 15:09
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FirstAidKite posted:The extent of it was just "hey which of your friends do you love" and you could pick the guy and the guy loved you back and that was it, nothing more, nothing less. The entire Trails series has a lot of pretty great lgbt characters. Olivier is pretty openly bisexual and the only sort of panic moment that series has is in the first game from a character who has had a pretty sheltered life and is in the middle of a coming of age journey at the end of which shes totally fine with it cause she's a bit more world wise. Then there's ya girl Angelica Rogner who has a straight up mech fight with her dad so he'll be okay with her being gay. It's good.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:14
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Nights of Azure
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Sep 14, 2017 15:15
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Harrow posted:Yeah I think reading Naoto as trans is really grasping, though Persona 4 is even worse with the gay panic poo poo than Persona 5 with how it treats Kanji. OTOH you've got Yosuke, who is very clearly gay and is desperately trying not to admit that to himself or deal with those feelings, which also explains his reactions to Kanji and his need to constantly prove himself as a normal het dude.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:28
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A couple of NPCs in the Borderlands games are queer and you only find out if you catch the offhand reference to a same-sex partner while talking about something else.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:32
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Lala would have been 100x more interesting to hang out with than freaking Ohya
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Sep 14, 2017 15:34
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Grapplejack posted:OTOH you've got Yosuke, who is very clearly gay and is desperately trying not to admit that to himself or deal with those feelings, which also explains his reactions to Kanji and his need to constantly prove himself as a normal het dude. drat dude i never thought of that, great take
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Sep 14, 2017 15:34
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In Training posted:Lala would have been 100x more interesting to hang out with than freaking Ohya  Wouldn't have fit the Devil tarot though but that's okay, just shuffle 'em around a bit and it'll be fine.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:48
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FirstAidKite posted:What are rpgs with good depictions of gay characters? Good in this case being defined as "not gay panic oh-no-what-if-I'm-gay" poo poo and also the gayness not being the source of antagonism with a character. Final Fantasy 7
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Sep 14, 2017 16:17
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In Training posted:Lala would have been 100x more interesting to hang out with than freaking Ohya Ohya isn't that bad but I still agree and I'm not gonna pretend I maxed her social link. Overall P4 is way more weird and problematic than 5, but 5 has issues. While 4 really seemed to be trying with it's gay stuff (and failing hard) P5 doesn't give a gently caress and the few times it comes up is awful but it also rarely comes up. The worst stuff in 5 mainly involves you getting involved with women too old for you (or in one case one who is both too young and is basically someone you're trying to help psychologically). Still, those parts are optional and unlike the rest of the series the game game doesn't guilt you for just being friends with them and in most cases doesn't even bring it up until you do. ANIME!
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Sep 14, 2017 16:19
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FirstAidKite posted:The extent of it was just "hey which of your friends do you love" and you could pick the guy and the guy loved you back and that was it, nothing more, nothing less. Bioware stuff is usually fine or at least no worse than every non-gay romance option
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Sep 14, 2017 16:23
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Bioware romances can be okay but a lot of them come off a bit skeevy from the perspective of the player, since there are very few characters that will outright break up with you and most of them culminate in a sex scene for the ultimate 'cheeve.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:27
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exquisite tea posted:Bioware romances can be okay but a lot of them come off a bit skeevy from the perspective of the player, since there are very few characters that will outright break up with you and most of them culminate in a sex scene for the ultimate 'cheeve. I'm not saying they're good, it's just the gay romances are problematic in ways that all the relationships are rather than anything to do with their gayness.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:30
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The game with the best romance options remains Saints Row 4
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Sep 14, 2017 16:32
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I liked it in Dragon Age Origins where you could still sleep with Morrigan even if she completely hated your guts because you bought her enough silver jewelry. Women, am I right fellas.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:32
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haveblue posted:The game with the only good romance options remains Saints Row 4 Player-determined romance in video games has never been done well. Not once. Mass Effect almost got close with keeping in contact with your ME1 partner between games, and having there actually be repercussions if you cheated on them. The Witcher 3 got even almost-closer by giving Triss and Yennefer their own separate plotlines for resolving your relationship issues with them, but after those quests it suddenly matters very little. edit: The only good relationship in video games is my relationship with the doom super shotgun
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Sep 14, 2017 16:44
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Life is Strange had a very beautiful central relationship that could be guided to be more romantic, although this is probably 100% nominal as Kiss Chloe was like a 96% decision point.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:48
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CJacobs posted:Player-determined romance in video games has never been done well. Not once. Mass Effect almost got close with keeping in contact with your ME1 partner between games, and having there actually be repercussions if you cheated on them. The Witcher 3 got even almost-closer by giving Triss and Yennefer their own separate plotlines for resolving your relationship issues with them, but after those quests it suddenly matters very little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgWmmk19fw
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Sep 14, 2017 16:51
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makoto is canon
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Sep 14, 2017 16:51
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The best romance in games is the wolfguy thing and the bearguy thing from Night in the Woods.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:53
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Saint Freak posted:The best romance in games is the wolfguy thing and the bearguy thing from Night in the Woods. Yeah that was a good one.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:54
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i've heard the lgbt characters in dragon age inquisition are really good but the gay romance in me3 always sounded kind of weird i'll second trails, even outside of two major recurring npcs who are gay and also consistently level-headed and working to help people, there are some memorable side npcs, too also despite being one of the worst tales games ever made, tales of zestiria generally presents sorey as being gay for his friend and not having any kind of feelings for any of the women in his party and that's pretty cool. the anime even goes a step further and presents alisha and rose, who go from never meeting in the game to being close buds for the entire anime, as being a couple through scenes of them just kind of hanging out a lot and getting really excited together when they manage to accomplish something nobody thought was possible, and the show ends on them quietly sitting together at the beach
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Sep 14, 2017 16:54
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Saint Freak posted:The best romance in games is the wolfguy thing and the bearguy thing from Night in the Woods. 
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Sep 14, 2017 16:58
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Hello thread I've posted an "Ask a Game Dev" thread for people what to ask questions about the industry to people who work in the industry for video games. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3834228 At least go check out the infographic I made because it took me a long time  THANKS!
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Sep 14, 2017 16:59
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The best romance in VideoGames is me and Lady VideoGames. (It's the only romance!)
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Sep 14, 2017 17:02
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hosed up that you're all forgetting X and Zero. Also it would be neat to see a game where the protagonists are a happily married couple, going on an adventure together.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:12
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Well look forward to Final Fantasy XV-2
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Sep 14, 2017 17:17
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I don't think I've really enjoyed any love story in RPGs but I did like Gwendolyn/Oswald in Odin Sphere because of how far each of them goes for the other in their respective stories, usually killing at least one dragon  I also thought the little scene were DaVinci introduces Salai to Ezio was cute, with him giving his blessings to the couple.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:18
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VideoGames posted:The best romance in VideoGames is me and Lady VideoGames. (It's the only romance!)
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Sep 14, 2017 17:28
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