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Basebf555 posted:Yea I really think at the very least we should have been told about how Leia's political reputation had been ruined by her connection with Vader. That's a pretty significant detail that really fills in a lot of blanks and it wouldn't have taken much time at all to cover it. Yeah, it would have been pretty easy. Just a couple lines like Han saying, "Can you really not get more support in the Senate for this?" And have Leia counter wish something like, "You know no one wants to hear from me anymore. Finding out I'm the daughter of Darth Vader himself used up any favors I had." Have someone who can actually write taking a crack at it would make it even easier.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:27
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thrawn527 posted:Yeah, it would have been pretty easy. Just a couple lines like Han saying, "Can you really not get more support in the Senate for this?" And have Leia counter wish something like, "You know no one wants to hear from me anymore. Finding out I'm the daughter of Darth Vader himself used up any favors I had." Have someone who can actually write taking a crack at it would make it even easier. Or maybe give her assistant a quick scene where Leia talks to her hologram and we learn about the political situation that way. Regardless, I can't imagine why that would be cut for time because it would literally take 60 seconds or less and would cover a lot of important ground. I think the fact that it wasn't included says that Abrams didn't think it was important, which I find odd.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:31
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Basebf555 posted:Or maybe give her assistant a quick scene where Leia talks to her hologram and we learn about the political situation that way. Regardless, I can't imagine why that would be cut for time because it would literally take 60 seconds or less and would cover a lot of important ground. I think the fact that it wasn't included says that Abrams didn't think it was important, which I find odd. I mean, there are plenty of reasons it could have been cut. Maybe the scene they had didn't flow well at all when they were making the final edit, and there was no time for a reshoot anymore. I know that happens a lot in the editing room. I think Kevin Smith once said the editing room is where he makes his "final draft". But I really wish, if this was the case, they had found the time to try another go.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:34
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thrawn527 posted:I mean, there are plenty of reasons it could have been cut. Maybe the scene they had didn't flow well at all when they were making the final edit, and there was no time for a reshoot anymore. I know that happens a lot in the editing room. I think Kevin Smith once said the editing room is where he makes his "final draft". But I really wish, if this was the case, they had found the time to try another go. I just think that there are so many ways to get the information in the movie, that the only explanation as to why it's not in there is Abrams didn't want it in. Hell, it could have been in the opening crawl! Zero time wasted and no need to worry about actually filming or having to reshoot a scene.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:47
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Basebf555 posted:I just think that there are so many ways to get the information in the movie, that the only explanation as to why it's not in there is Abrams didn't want it in. Hell, it could have been in the opening crawl! Zero time wasted and no need to worry about actually filming or having to reshoot a scene. That is actually a very good point. "GENERAL LEIA, having lost support in the Republic Senate due to discovery of the identity of her real father, has formed a RESISTANCE to..."
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Sep 14, 2017 14:50
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movies dumb also it won't get better from here on out at the end of the decade nerds will pilgrim to skywalker ranch to beg lucas for forgiveness
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Sep 14, 2017 15:20
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Wild Horses posted:movies dumb also it won't get better from here on out This is unlikely.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:40
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thrawn527 posted:This is unlikely. Literally speaking, it is unlikely. Figuratively, nerds are already doing it.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:02
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homullus posted:Literally speaking, it is unlikely. Figuratively, nerds are already doing it. You really can't please everyone.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:03
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NTRabbit posted:Planets from a star system a quarter of a galaxy away individually visible in the day time sky. Nothing to do with the beam, which has problems of its own. Why are you going through so many mental gymnastics to defend something so bad? The planets were pinpoint targets of the beam and therefore encompassed by whatever spatial warping effect allowed the beam to work at all. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that, for those thirty seconds, they were simultaneously visible from all points in the galaxy or something.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:04
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General Dog posted:For me the problem with Starkiller is the difference between a movie showing an eccentric billionaire owning the only flying car in the world and a movie showing the Benton, Arkansas chapter of the KKK owning the only flying car in the world. The physics of how the flying car would work isn't the first objection that comes to mind. yeah it's this people are getting stuck on those of us who didn't like the tfa death star because they think the objection is "b-b-b-but how does the ~SCIENCE FICTION THING~ work?!" and I honestly couldn't give a gently caress how it shoots its lasers ~~in the canon~~ the problem is that there's no visual language to tell us how it does what it does; the tfa death star just kinda exists because jj wanted to remake ANH so there had to be a death star in anh we understood the death star as a coldly mechanical roving planet, a sort of stand in for what people assume to be the inevitability and power of the empire. it's cold and unfeeling and even the act of firing it is sterile and bureaucratic in tfa the death star just...is. but it's even bigger and better somehow? we don't get any language about why or how it exists or what it's all about. they give a speech, it shoots, things die and no one gives a single solitary gently caress about it so on the whole, the idea of it shooting multiple lasers and how the characters seeing those lasers when it actually wouldn't make any sense for them to see them isn't what takes me out of the movie, it's that the starkiller is so blindingly, stupidly representative of the worst sort of star wars book style Like-The-Death-Star-But-BETTER!! creative bankruptcy that when it shoots multiple lasers into parts of space that completely eschew the distance between planets as we expect it, it makes the eyes roll even more like if you were gonna ape anh anyway why not show us some visual rhyming with the anh shooting sequence but then show the beam splitting or the beams going through a prequels-style hyperspace loop or SOMETHING so that we get some sort of visual language for this thing all of that is setting aside why it had to be so super duper new awesome cool better anyway. wouldn't it be more ominous and scary if all of a sudden leia's worst fears are confirmed and holy poo poo they've got ANOTHER one of these things, the thing she saw destroy everything she loved in one blast. imagine you're leia and you look up and YEP just like when I was 19 i see this thing in the sky again and OH gently caress it's yet another thing from my past that's seemingly here to haunt me in the other movies the death star(s) mean something. the starkiller doesn't mean jack poo poo in tfa, so when it does something new and stupid it leaves a sense of "whuh?" Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 16:37
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https://brorlandi.github.io/StarWarsIntroCreator/#!/AKu03TgKd50SjLlw2m5r
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Sep 14, 2017 16:46
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I've always thought the theory that Disney's afraid of any political talk/slowing down the pace at all because of the prequels made sense as an explanation for why everything in The Force Awakens seems like it's just there without much context. Which is silly, because A New Hope has quite a few scenes explaining the general state of the galaxy, particularly the scene with Tarkin and Vader meeting with all those other Imperial guys, so once again it seems like they're just trying to follow the memes about what people didn't like about the prequels and what people did like about the originals.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:59
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Disney haters sounding more and more like Prequel truthers. FAKE FANS, SAD!
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Sep 14, 2017 17:05
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Beeez posted:I've always thought the theory that Disney's afraid of any political talk/slowing down the pace at all because of the prequels made sense as an explanation for why everything in The Force Awakens seems like it's just there without much context. Which is silly, because A New Hope has quite a few scenes explaining the general state of the galaxy, particularly the scene with Tarkin and Vader meeting with all those other Imperial guys, so once again it seems like they're just trying to follow the memes about what people didn't like about the prequels and what people did like about the originals. It frustrated me that we find out nothing about what has happened in the 30 years between movies except Han and Leia had a kid, he was trained at Luke's new Jedi Academy, and it went bad for 'reasons'. That also led Han and Leia to split. I had to look up online to find out the planet that Starkiller Base blew up was not actually Corescant but a planet which was the rotating capital of the Republic. That whole sequence where the base blows everything up is pretty meaningless without the rest of the context.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:18
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The movie tells you it is the capital of the republic . Yeah I guess you could have thought it was Coruscant but why does it matter . euphronius fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 17:44
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Why didn't they (the filmmakers) just blow up Coruscant? That would have at least been a bit ballsy. We have no connection to the current iteration of the Republic, but we at least have some connection to the planet.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:49
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euphronius posted:The movie tells you it is the capital of the republic . The planet was throughout 3 previous films and shown as the capital of the previous republic. Itd be like a reunited germany making its new capital Bonn. Sure it could happen, butt its not expected
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Sep 14, 2017 17:55
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Coruscant is being saved for IX when Rey gets a bite to eat at a random diner and meets Dex, who immediately recognizes her as Obi's daughter, because he's smarter than the Jedi computers.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:05
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Ingmar terdman posted:Coruscant is being saved for IX when Rey gets a bite to eat at a random diner and meets Dex, who immediately recognizes her as Obi's daughter, because he's smarter than the Jedi computers. And sends her to the planet Chevi Vega
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Sep 14, 2017 18:12
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euphronius posted:The movie tells you it is the capital of the republic . it's about stakes euphronius forreal man isn't it better, if you're going to show genocide on a massive scale to establish emotional stakes, you show things being destroyed that are established as important to our characters? planets/locales destroyed in star wars phantom menace - jar jar's home city attack of the clones - sandpeople village revenge of the sith - jedi temple - senate chamber space with the pods anh - luke's family farm - alderaan - the death star esb - rebel base on hoth rotj - jabba's barge - death star tfa - max von sydow's village - several(??) planets - death star rogue one - sand planet city - ocean planet base In every one of these instances, including in Rogue 1, there's some sort of consequence for the plot or for the emotional journey of our characters or some visual storytelling point...except for the planets being destroyed in tfa. even max von sydow's village being destroyed by the stormtroopers demonstrates to finn that he can't be in the FO anymore it stands out in an absolutely massive way how little fanfare there is about the like, entire republic(????) being destroyed; not just in the moment but for the remaining movie in anh we have obi-wan basically being utterly rocked back on his heels, coupled with the falcon coming out of hyperspace and discovering that the planet is totally gone in tfa everyone goes outside of the bar to stare up into the sky having no idea what they're looking at (why would they?) until finn runs over "It was the Republic! The First Order, they've done it. Where's Rey?" ...and that's it! that's loving it aghhhh Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 18:33
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To be fair, it wasn't "the entire republic" that was destroyed. It was the seat of the government. The equivalent of D.C. blowing up; not the entire USA.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:35
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jivjov posted:To be fair, it wasn't "the entire republic" that was destroyed. It was the seat of the government. dude five planets were iced!  it's not just DC getting iced it's like DC, London, Berlin, Moscow and Tokyo being iced it's loving NUTS how few fucks anyone gives, even in the immediate aftermath Han says nothing, then Finn's like, 'where's rey' and they all.....move on
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Sep 14, 2017 18:41
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Um, even if the Starkiller beams had enough luminosity or whatever to be visible halfway across the galaxy, it would take millions of years for them to show up.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:48
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Waffles Inc. posted:dude five planets were iced! Okay, yes, the entire Hosnian system is destroyed. But that's not "the entire Republic"
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Sep 14, 2017 18:50
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porfiria posted:Um, even if the Starkiller beams had enough luminosity or whatever to be visible halfway across the galaxy, it would take millions of years for them to show up. 
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Sep 14, 2017 18:50
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jivjov posted:Okay, yes, the entire Hosnian system is destroyed. But that's not "the entire Republic" my dude i can't stress enough how little of a drat i give about books or extended materials or whatever the hell based on what we see in the film, this is what happens hux has his nuremberg rally speech: "today is the end of the republic. the end of a regime that acquieces to disorder. at this moment in a system far from here the new republic lies to the galaxy while secretely supporting the treachery of the loathsome resistance. this fierce regime which you have built will bring an end to the senate, their cherished fleet. all remaining systems will bow to this new order and will remember this as the last of the republic" what we then see is a big beam shoot off and split into five beams and we see those beams destroy planets, one of which gets a close-up panic shot of people in fancy clothes, who we presume to be like, politicians if we follow the visual and verbal language of the film, the first order destroyed the republic. it happened in this movie.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:58
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Waffles Inc. posted:my dude i can't stress enough how little of a drat i give about books or extended materials or whatever the hell In the movie, I saw a planet that had a city on it was destroyed and the surrounding planets. It looked like the equivalent of Earth, Venus, Mars, Mercury, and Jupiter were destroyed. So I just assumed it was like our Solar System. As you say, they blew up 5 planets. If this Republic is even remotely like the last Republic we saw in Star Wars, they'll have thousands and thousands of planets. Why are you taking 5 planets as the entirety of the Republic?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:08
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thrawn527 posted:In the movie, I saw a planet that had a city on it was destroyed and the surrounding planets. It looked like the equivalent of Earth, Venus, Mars, Mercury, and Jupiter were destroyed. So I just assumed it was like our Solar System. because the yelly first order man said they were destroying the republic, then they shot the thing unopposed and then we saw the planets get destroyed what reason do we have to believe that the hux doesn't think they were destroying the republic? are you telling me he was lying in his speech?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:18
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I'm pissed that Princess Leela didn't even mention Alderan after it was destroyed.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:21
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Waffles Inc. posted:because the yelly first order man said they were destroying the republic, then they shot the thing unopposed and then we saw the planets get destroyed ...yes. Or at least was over emphasizing what destroying the capitol would mean to the Republic. Like, if North Korea were to nuke D.C., I would imagine Kim Jong Un would make a similar speech about the death of America. What we saw was the destruction of 5 planets. If the Republic only had 5 planets, they're basically irrelevant in the galaxy even before their destruction. Don't get me wrong. They definitely should have gone into what this all means now, having their capitol destroyed. But what we saw was the immediate aftermath of the attack, with the Resistance reacting immediately with, "WTF, blow that thing up!" Since the next movie takes place immediately after this, I would imagine we're about to get into what this now means.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:23
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Waffles Inc. posted:dude five planets were iced! It's more like DC, Arlington, Silver Spring, Bethesda, and Tysons Corner being iced.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:26
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Waffles Inc. posted:it's about stakes euphronius forreal man Ok so the movie is telling us the republic wasn't all that important and it's gone now . Why is that "bad" The movie does say the republic is important to the First Order . There were big steaks for the First Order .
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Sep 14, 2017 19:27
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UmOk posted:I'm pissed that Princess Leela didn't even mention Alderan after it was destroyed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kxPJ_DLS-E 0m40s "you're safe. when we heard about alderaan we feared the worst" "we've got no time for our sorrows, commander. you must use the information in this R2 unit to plan the attack. it's our only hope." thrawn527 posted:...yes. Or at least was over emphasizing what destroying the capitol would mean to the Republic. Like, if North Korea were to nuke D.C., I would imagine Kim Jong Un would make a similar speech about the death of America. aight then. i guess we just disagree? i mean i can see why you want the NK comparison but the FO is pretty clearly well funded and super dangerous; they're not some petty insurgency. they've built something capable of destroying at least five planets in one go--i dunno why hux would purposefully lie to his dudes euphronius posted:Ok so the movie is telling us the republic wasn't all that important and it's gone now . Why is that "bad" is your point that you're ok with that sequence being meaningless or that thematically you think it's good storytelling to have it be meaningless? in other words like, do you think it was good storytelling and film making? Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 19:28
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The First orders power is only important in relation to the republic and resistance . The republic is gone so it is the only political power left. The resistance exists as a military insurgency. Above all this is the spiritual warfare being conducted by Jedi and whatever Snoke is . Probably a sith.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:31
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Waffles Inc. posted:aight then. i guess we just disagree? i mean i can see why you want the NK comparison but the FO is pretty clearly well funded and super dangerous; they're not some petty insurgency. they've built something capable of destroying at least five planets in one go--i dunno why hux would purposefully lie to his dudes Do you think the Republic consisted of 5 planets?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:31
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The Republic is 1 planet, Coruscant, which we see getting blown up
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Sep 14, 2017 19:41
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thrawn527 posted:Do you think the Republic consisted of 5 planets? what leads me to believe otherwise? we don't see anything of the republic in tfa except for the people before they get blown away evidence that the republic isn't destroyed - the assumption that it contains more than five planets or that the destruction of those five planets is inconsequential to its survival evidence that the republic is destroyed - the visual language of the film - a character's dialogue - the other characters' reactions euphronius posted:The First orders power is only important in relation to the republic and resistance . The republic is gone so it is the only political power left. The resistance exists as a military insurgency. fwiw I totally agree on that point, which makes the scene worse for me. i can't help but feel that there was pressure on the film to re-establish the OT status queue but everyone naturally assumed that the rebels winning in the OT meant that the empire would have to be re-established somehow so they figured "gently caress it we'll just have the bad guys win in TFA"
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Sep 14, 2017 19:41
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Don't the characters mention several times that the entire Republic fleet was blown up?
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Sep 14, 2017 19:42
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porfiria posted:Um, even if the Starkiller beams had enough luminosity or whatever to be visible halfway across the galaxy, it would take millions of years for them to show up. The planets are illuminated by the superluminal beam so they would show up across the galaxy too. This is how superluminal energy beams work.
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Sep 14, 2017 19:46
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