Sloober posted:

Ah the real life ben garrison trump

Surely real

Uroboros posted:

So, ever so gradually my mother has clearly been swayed by right-wing media over the last decade or so. I attribute this in large part to her libertarian husband, but it still dismays me considering what she has gone through in life.

Growing up I never knew her to feel strongly about politics, but I know she has been on the low side of life, having to declare bankruptcy after she divorced my father when I was very young, and working long hours and poor paying jobs. Through hard work and what I assume no small amount of assistance from a combination of friends/family/government she managed have a successful career in nursing, and now has her dream business of running a lucrative wedding venue.

Anyway, while I love my mother, I've always known her to be a woman who looks out for herself, especially when it comes to money, and she is very good at justifying her actions to herself. This being said she has taken to posting poo poo like this:
https://www.mrctv.org/blog/we-swore-we-would-never-forget-911-we-did

on social media, and I've gotten into the habit of calling her out on her awful opinions. I have been in the military just shy of 10 years, and this kind of stuff just makes my blood boil. It is only compounded by the fact that I've been interested in politics and history far longer than my mother ever has, and would consider myself a patriot, especially compared to a woman who didn't even want me to join the military, and as far as I can tell knows nothing about it beyond what she sees on TV.

I am almost at the point where I think my joining the military might be in part responsible for her political slide since she became noticeably more of a "flag-waver" after that. I told her this particular video was trash and that I wanted to sit down with her and go over it point-by-point why it is offensive and un-American. I've already typed up a synopsis that debunks a lot of the claims in it, but if anyone else has some commentary on it I would gladly incorporate it.

quote:

Today, we can’t even fly Old Glory at a baseball game without someone getting offended. Thugs burn the flag in the streets. You point out Islamic extremism, like we suffered 16 years ago, and you're deemed a racist and a bigot.

Uroboros posted:

So, ever so gradually my mother has clearly been swayed by right-wing media over the last decade or so. I attribute this in large part to her libertarian husband, but it still dismays me considering what she has gone through in life.

Growing up I never knew her to feel strongly about politics, but I know she has been on the low side of life, having to declare bankruptcy after she divorced my father when I was very young, and working long hours and poor paying jobs. Through hard work and what I assume no small amount of assistance from a combination of friends/family/government she managed have a successful career in nursing, and now has her dream business of running a lucrative wedding venue.

Anyway, while I love my mother, I've always known her to be a woman who looks out for herself, especially when it comes to money, and she is very good at justifying her actions to herself. This being said she has taken to posting poo poo like this:
https://www.mrctv.org/blog/we-swore-we-would-never-forget-911-we-did

on social media, and I've gotten into the habit of calling her out on her awful opinions. I have been in the military just shy of 10 years, and this kind of stuff just makes my blood boil. It is only compounded by the fact that I've been interested in politics and history far longer than my mother ever has, and would consider myself a patriot, especially compared to a woman who didn't even want me to join the military, and as far as I can tell knows nothing about it beyond what she sees on TV.

I am almost at the point where I think my joining the military might be in part responsible for her political slide since she became noticeably more of a "flag-waver" after that. I told her this particular video was trash and that I wanted to sit down with her and go over it point-by-point why it is offensive and un-American. I've already typed up a synopsis that debunks a lot of the claims in it, but if anyone else has some commentary on it I would gladly incorporate it.

DarkHorse posted:

If you feel like it, post what you got and people might be able to add some ammunition

quote:

Point 1: Speaker nostalgically says that there wasn’t a car on the road without an American flag bumper sticker after 9/11.

Criticism: She then mentions that someone got offended at a baseball game over the flag. Who? How many? Last I checked we can still fly flags basically anywhere. This is basically bullshit, and even if someone does get offended, why the gently caress does it matter? Maybe that person actually has a legitimate grievance? Ultimately, why is this a problem? Do we somehow think this is the first time anyone has ever protested the actions of their nation? Either way, no evidence is provided, no example, it’s hyperbolic bullshit. Bitching about people exercising their rights is the height of hypocrisy when glorifying how free your country is supposed to be.

Point 2: She mentions the flag raising over ground zero, and now suddenly things are different with rioters burning the flag.

Criticism: So? Does she not believe in freedom? She doesn’t even address what the riots may have been about. For someone who is proud of America she sure hates it when Americans do American things like protest injustice, or what they perceive as injustice.

Point 3: Next she goes on to mention how this was the first introduction to Islamic Extremism for millions, and then proceeds to assert that you can’t say Islamic Extremism without being accused of being a bigot.

Criticism: The first part is largely false for anyone who paid attention to world events and politics, and the second is 100% false since people use the term to describe terrorist acts all the time. I am genuinely unsure how I should approach this idea that not saying Islam enough in conjunction with the word terrorism is somehow giving aid to our enemies, it is so stupid on its face that beyond pointing out "this is dumb" is something I can't get past"

Point 4: She goes on to try and make a point about thoroughly vetting immigrants and how 3 of the 19 hijackers were here illegally, implying that 9/11 happened because we don’t thoroughly vet people who enter this country, and that you are xenophobe if you merely wish that our immigration laws were enforced.

Criticism: There is a lot to unpack with this statement, first off, no evidence is really offered to show that 9/11 wouldn’t of happened if we had more strict laws on people entering the country. I suppose banning all Muslims or people of Arab descent could’ve done the job, but considering what we know now an easier solution would’ve been to simply change security procedures when responding to hijackers. It is interesting to note that nothing like 9/11 has happened since, largely because prior to that point SOP had been for passengers to not risk to their lives interfering with hijackers, but now that will never happen again because all passengers will assume the worst at any attempted hijacking.

I assume the other half the argument here is over illegals entering from Mexico and Central America. It is interesting to note that the number of people immigrating to the U.S. from Mexico is less than those returning at this point. Basically, if you wanted to do something about illegal immigration you should’ve tried decades ago. When people bitch about illegal immigrants all I really hear is “boo hoo I don’t like all these non-white people around with their strange customs”. Apparently, they were good enough to come here and work all the poo poo jobs we didn’t want to do, but now that the face of the American landscape is changing as a result all the loving racists are getting upset. Growing up in Beardstown it is hard to perceive this kind of talk as anything but the most thinly veiled racism. The best question is, how does this have anything to do with 9/11? Why are the crime rates for immigrants lower than the general population if they are such an issue?
This is the hardest one for me to summarize, I feel like you could go on for days about this. It is doubly perplexing given where I have grown up. Part of me wants to tell my mother that she is straight up racist by agreeing with this kind of thing, despite how little that would help. I could use a better method of argument here.

Topic 5: Next, she claims we forgot 9/11.

Criticism: Clearly False and hyperbolic. She then claims that sanctuary cities mean we forgot 9/11. What the gently caress does this mean? How does an athlete’s protests mean we forgot 9/11?

How does one truly address this? It ventures into the "not even wrong" category.

quote:

Point 3: Next she goes on to mention how this was the first introduction to Islamic Extremism for millions, and then proceeds to assert that you can’t say Islamic Extremism without being accused of being a bigot.

Criticism: The first part is largely false for anyone who paid attention to world events and politics, and the second is 100% false since people use the term to describe terrorist acts all the time. I am genuinely unsure how I should approach this idea that not saying Islam enough in conjunction with the word terrorism is somehow giving aid to our enemies, it is so stupid on its face that beyond pointing out "this is dumb" is something I can't get past"

quote:

Point 4: She goes on to try and make a point about thoroughly vetting immigrants and how 3 of the 19 hijackers were here illegally, implying that 9/11 happened because we don’t thoroughly vet people who enter this country, and that you are xenophobe if you merely wish that our immigration laws were enforced.

Dameius posted:

Honestly man, the most productive thing you can do is lead her through questions that fully unpack her assumptions and beliefs that lead her to want to share that first and then, depending on what the reasoning is, provide evidence for falsely held ideas, and support for resolving knee-jerk emotional causes. It'll basically be therapy. But that is the best way to keep someone from the brink that you actively and specifically don't want to see go.

You gotta unpack their beliefs, because otherwise their biases will find ways to invalidate everything you say, because change requires thinking, and thinking is hard. Much easier to just maintain the status quo by invalidating the things that say you need to change. Just the way the brain works.

boner confessor posted:

this is very good advice, but also don't be surprised if she gets frustrated when you start really unpacking and categorizing those beliefs and their incoherence leads to frustration for both of you. relatively few people have a consistent, squared away perspective on the world

quote:

An ESPN anchor who called President Trump a white supremacist should be fired, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Wednesday.

“That is one of the more outrageous comments that anybody could make and certainly is something that is a fireable offense by ESPN,” Sanders said.

ESPN has reprimanded Jemele Hill, an African-American woman who co-hosts a show called “SC6 with Michael and Jemele,” for a string of tweets sent out over the weekend calling Trump and his supporters white supremacists.

Pththya-lyi posted:

Re: Sanctuary cities -

What that really means is that police detectives in the city don't report any witnesses they come across in their investigations to immigration authorities. This is a good thing: undocumented immigrants who witness crimes are more likely to help with criminal investigations if they don't risk being deported for speaking out. Uroboros, if an undocumented immigrant saw a thief carrying stuff out of your mom's home or business, wouldn't she prefer it if they came to the police with their information? Would she really rather they kept silent and protected the thief?

quote:

I was friends with someone for over 4 years who struggled with depression and did nothing to improve his mental health. He was a good person who was a good friend but the friendship became a burden. It was like dating a clingy guy except we weren't dating. We will call him Dan.

We met in high school. He was friends with my twin and met me through her. He was kind of a weirdo (I suspect he had an inflation and furry fetish but I have no proof), and my sister has little tolerance for weirdos so she stopped hanging around him pretty quick. He tried to vent to me about my sis from time to time which should have been a red flag. I understand complaining about my sis once or twice but more than that is just not appropriate imo.

Second warning flag that I somehow missed was that Dan would get very upset if I sat next to other people in the classes we had together. Keep in mind that I went to a small high school and everyone knew everyone. I wasn't his only friend there, although I might have been his best. If I changed things up one day and sat with someone else, he'd message/text me later and ask me what was wrong, if he'd done something, etc. He would need repeated reassurance that he hadn't done anything.

Pretty soon, Dan became comfortable with confiding in me about his depression, suicidal thoughts, etc. He was pretty open about being depressed and practically everyone who knew him knew he was depressed. I had sympathy. Depression is hard. About every two months, he'd have a minor breakdown and tell me that this was the night he was going to end it all, he didn't want to go on, etc. And of course I'd drop what I was doing to talk him down from it. Needless to say this was very emotionally stressful, but I felt like it was my duty as his friend. He was a year older than me, so he graduated and went to college while I was in my senior year.

So here's when the real crazy started. In my senior year, I had a Tumblr (gag). At the time, and probably still to this day, most of Tumblr was about obsessing over British television actors. So most of what I saw, and most of what I was reblogging, was stuff about Sherlock, Doctor Who, and the actors in those shows. I followed a few of my friends on Tumblr and a few of them followed me. Dan was one. Out of the blue nowhere, Dan messages me on Facebook. But not just any message. What he had to say was so long that he typed it in a document and attached it in a facebook message. He basically told me that he felt I spent too much time on Tumblr, that I valued these famous actors over my real friends, that I wasn't paying enough attention to my real friends, etc. The entire time, it was blatantly obvious that this moron was jealous of the time I was spending on Tumblr. In hindsight, he had a crush on me and that contributed to the jealousy. There was some back and forth but ultimately I told him he was being a weirdo and I didn't want to talk to him for a while.

Mutual friends at my school told me he was taking our little separation period badly. This was after maybe 2 weeks of not talking. They told me he was researching skin bleaching, colored contacts, and learning to talk with a British accent, because he thought that's what I was into.

Don't talk to him for a year. During that period, I myself have my own brush with depression and suicidal thoughts but I get myself in order.

Go to college, bump into him there. He says he acted horribly and has regretted how he behaved, but was respecting my space. Says he's gotten a better handle on himself since and isn't so needy and clingy.

I am hesitant to believe it, but willing to give him another chance since as I said he was a good person and a supportive friend.

He sees a therapist now and is on anti-depressants. Goes to the gym, eats well.

Some months pass, Dan is acting decently normal and friendship is overall wholesome. He'll come over to play vidya a few times a week and we'll help each other study in subjects we suck at. Always very supportive and willing to listen if I need to vent.

He works at Publix and starts socializing with the Publix trash. Publix employees, as a rule, cannot socialize without copious amounts of booze and drugs.

Starts going out to clubs, drinking, smoking weed, taking ecstasy and horse tranqs while on anti-depressants. Depression becomes worse. Resumes becoming suicidal once every 2 months or so.

Befriends a girl I used to know. I know she's an emotionally manipulative, crazy person. Warn him off. He responds by dating her. She encourages his drug use, constant mind games, constant fights, etc. He calls me once a week at least to vent about her, and I usually put him on speaker while I do something else because I am not interested.

He calls me while I'm at my brother's birthday party and gives me another iteration of "I'm going to end it." Tell him I'm busy atm and don't have time for his crap and that I'll call him in the morning. He doesn't answer any of my calls or texts the next day, and once 24 hours have passed I get ready to go to his house and prepare to find his corpse. He texts me back right before I leave and says he took a sleeping pill and slept all day. When I tell him that I thought he was dead, he gives me some crap like, "I'm so miserable, I feel like I'm dead :/." I tell him that we can stay acquaintances but our friendship is pretty much over. I have no more patience.

He breaks up with gf, stops the drugs, starts exercising again. Tells me so, and I say good job. Some months pass and he asks if we can go to starbucks and talk. He apologizes for how he acted. Tells me he started dating someone else. He met her online and they've met in person a few times. She is in the process of a divorce, and is leaving her husband because he's emotionally abusive. She has a 4 year old that she's leaving with him. Dan asks if I want to hang out again soon, and I say no.

Don't hang out with or talk to Dan anymore, just barely keep up with him through Facebook. Around the time the primaries were kicking off, notice that he isn't on my Facebook feed anymore. He unfriended me. A little relieved, in all honesty.

Fast forward to yesterday. Dan texts me and asks how my family is during the hurricane. Say fine thanks and ask about his. Everyone is safe. He's texting much more than me and obviously wants to engage in conversation. Tells me his gf now lives with him at his parents' house.

Says his gf made him unfriend me from facebook during the election because she didn't like that he was friends with and defending a conservative. Keep in mind that I barely post anything political on my profile, and when it's there it's super tame. I also was not a big Trump supporter until the tail end of the primaries. Says he's felt bad for a long time and has wanted to tell me what happened, feels like it's been long enough now that his gf won't care.

- he lives with both his parents and gf
- his gf won't tolerate him being friends with people who don't share her political beliefs
- he lets his gf dictate who he stays friends with
- he drops a friend of 4+ years at the behest of someone he's been dating for a few months
- he wants to go behind his gf's back and resume the friendship
- he's probably getting sick of the gf and just wants someone to vent to
- a cuck

I did not respond anymore and have no intention of doing so. Pic somewhat related.

quote:

MasterSlowPoke posted:

I think that falls into "why do you care?"

Pththya-lyi posted:

Re: Sanctuary cities -

What that really means is that police detectives in the city don't report any witnesses they come across in their investigations to immigration authorities. This is a good thing: undocumented immigrants who witness crimes are more likely to help with criminal investigations if they don't risk being deported for speaking out. Uroboros, if an undocumented immigrant saw a thief carrying stuff out of your mom's home or business, wouldn't she prefer it if they came to the police with their information? Would she really rather they kept silent and protected the thief?

SSNeoman posted:

3) her politics are really loving annoying; like "why isn't there a white history month" sort of poo poo

Dejawesp posted:

There is. The other 11 months of the year.

ChristopherRobin posted:

It's almost like there's a reason for black history month, like we take it for granted that history itself in America is seen through white, westernized lenses.

TinTower posted:

dr gun

Defenestration posted:

Defenestration posted:

Defenestration posted:

toanoradian posted:

What if I have more guns than my man has shoes, which he has more than his guns?

BarbarianElephant posted:

Then you are some sort of Republican math problem.

Verisimilidude posted:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/350509-white-house-espn-anchor-that-called-trump-racist-should-be-fired

Eagerly awaiting conservatives to come out in droves to defend Jemele Hill's 1st amendment rights.

ChristopherRobin posted:

I have a friend that unequivocally defended nazi free speech, but was silent about this other than asking how Trump was a white supremacist. So I asked him about why he wasn't outraged about a government official saying someone should be fired for free speech, and suddenly he was all about context and nuance. He also called the protesters of the Ben Shapiro thing at Berkeley triggered snowflakes. I am so close to telling him he obviously doesn't give a poo poo about free speech.

ChristopherRobin posted:

I have a friend that unequivocally defended nazi free speech, but was silent about this other than asking how Trump was a white supremacist. So I asked him about why he wasn't outraged about a government official saying someone should be fired for free speech, and suddenly he was all about context and nuance. He also called the protesters of the Ben Shapiro thing at Berkeley triggered snowflakes. I am so close to telling him he obviously doesn't give a poo poo about free speech.