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Evil Mastermind posted:Yes. At DF you're actually not allowed to talk about 3.x ("The Edition That Must Not Be Named") or 4e ("The Abomination That Must Not Be Named"). Wait, seriously? Well then, I'm sure they won't object if I post AD&D conversions of tieflings, dragonborn and warlords. 
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Sep 15, 2017 18:47
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Comrade Koba posted:Wait, seriously? this is completely derivative of USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST
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Sep 15, 2017 18:49
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Comrade Koba posted:Wait, seriously? quote:Dragonsfoot is NOT a 3E (or later) board. Post-TSR D&D is off topic here, even in the General Discussion forum. No posts in favour of 3E will be tolerated. No posts against 3E will be tolerated either. No d20 discussion at all in General Discussion. So far as I know, the only forum where any 3E discussion is on-topic is the C&C forum. If a 3E/4E thread is started, pro or con, DO NOT POST TO IT, no matter what your opinion. Assume it's already locked, because it WILL BE.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:54
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Comrade Koba posted:Wait, seriously? Dragonborn are just Draconians with fancy hats. AD&D 2nd Edition is the only game you need.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:55
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yes. At DF you're actually not allowed to talk about 3.x ("The Edition That Must Not Be Named") or 4e ("The Abomination That Must Not Be Named"). And then there's the Knight & Knaves Alehouse, birthplace of OSRIC, which bans everything later than the original 1974 three-booklet OD&D and 1st Edition AD&D.
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Sep 15, 2017 19:50
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I mean, I get wanting to keep discussion focused, but seriously.
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Sep 15, 2017 19:54
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unseenlibrarian posted:Just let John Rogers do a Fell's Five screenplay and call it good. I would loving murder for this. That comic was so ridiculously good considering it was a D&D comic.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:09
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Comrade Koba posted:Wait, seriously? AD&D already has tieflings 
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Sep 15, 2017 20:13
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Kai Tave posted:On the other hand "make an RPG movie where it's a cheap, schlocky fantasy flick that cuts to the real world with ~hilarious meta comedy~" is such an overused pitch by this point that I can't actually imagine it would be any good. I know I've never had an interest in watching any of the low budget nerdbait movies with that very premise that have already been made. Yeah, seriously, the last thing we need is a western version of isekai.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:13
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yeah, seriously, the last thing we need is a western version of isekai.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:15
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Emrikol posted:And then there's the Knight & Knaves Alehouse, birthplace of OSRIC, which bans everything later than the original 1974 three-booklet OD&D and 1st Edition AD&D. I'm sorry, but that is not ideologically pure enough. We only allow three book + chainmail discussion here. Gazetteers? BAN More than 8 level 1 spells? BAN THAC0? BAN Excuse me, is that a Special Attack line in your monster list?!? BAN WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE
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Sep 15, 2017 20:21
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I think all those forums used to allow such discussion, but it just lead the posters to try to destroy each other. I read a bunch of old threads when looking for reviews of TSR-era source books and adventures and that's the impression I got.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:40
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SirPhoebos posted:AD&D already has tieflings It also has (the equivalent of) daily and encounter powers, attacks of opportunity and a bunch of other "4E bullshit". But don't tell that to the DF crowd.
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Sep 15, 2017 20:47
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Lightning Lord posted:I think all those forums used to allow such discussion, but it just lead the posters to try to destroy each other. I read a bunch of old threads when looking for reviews of TSR-era source books and adventures and that's the impression I got. Dragonsfoot had a subforum dedicated to edition warring, which they deleted when they officially banned discussion of 3rd Edition altogether.
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Sep 15, 2017 21:30
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Emrikol posted:Dragonsfoot had a subforum dedicated to edition warring, which they deleted when they officially banned discussion of 3rd Edition altogether. It's good that forums like this exist to sequester these people away from the rest of the world.
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Sep 15, 2017 21:35
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Halloween Jack posted:Hahahaha the D&D team is now Palladium. Hell, even Palladium pays decent from what I understand if you're actually working on full book releases (and Siembieda doesn't reject your manuscript and then write something eerily similar). It's only The Rifter where they pay like utter crap, and at least they're clumsily honest about it compared to what's on display here. But the few that get hired on seem to do alright  gradenko_2000 posted:what a coup it would be if the D&D license somehow passed into the hands of Kevin Siembieda It says something about how badly fans feel burned by Siembieda that he was never embraced by the OSR community. I mean, he's been publishing a AD&D-alike for over thirty years! You'd think that would be grogbait of the highest order, but it's almost always forgotten when it comes to old-school fantasy games.
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Sep 16, 2017 00:14
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It almost feels like the vanity press industry was leaving money on the table all these years, focusing on peoples' crappy poetry instead.
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Sep 16, 2017 00:24
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paradoxGentleman posted:I can name a couple of comic strips that are clearly based on D&D but I think I only recall one that had you jump perspective from the players and the characters. Which are you thinking of, out of curiosity?
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Sep 16, 2017 03:37
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Alien Rope Burn posted:It says something about how badly fans feel burned by Siembieda that he was never embraced by the OSR community. I mean, he's been publishing a AD&D-alike for over thirty years! You'd think that would be grogbait of the highest order, but it's almost always forgotten when it comes to old-school fantasy games. Maybe this is a bad opinion wrought from too little practical play experience, but Palladium Fantasy / RIFTS has some "workable" mechanical ideas. Hit rates are fairly good since it's 4+ on a d20, and it's only ever within the 1-20 range of the die, armor is ablative, and skills are "just" percentile rolls. It's all the other poo poo like having to take certain skills like Boxing, having to take a zillion skills, multiple attacks per round, and the whole "counterpunch" and "roll-with-the-attack" mechanics that seem to weigh it down, not to mention the SDC/MDC inflation in RIFTS itself. (this is also why I rather really liked (reading) the 1st Edition of Palladium Fantasy, since it doesn't have all that cruft yet)
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Sep 16, 2017 03:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:Maybe this is a bad opinion wrought from too little practical play experience, but Palladium Fantasy / RIFTS has some "workable" mechanical ideas. Hit rates are fairly good since it's 4+ on a d20, and it's only ever within the 1-20 range of the die, armor is ablative, and skills are "just" percentile rolls. This isn't an uncommon opinion, that 1E Palladium Fantasy was pretty decent for the time but that RIFTS is where things really went off the rails. I mean, from the perspective of 2017 I can't say I see much to recommend any iteration of the Palladium house system (and neither does Kevin Sembieda, heyoooo), but from a historical perspective it was considered an attractive option for people looking for a non-D&D fantasy RPG back in the day.
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Sep 16, 2017 04:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:Maybe this is a bad opinion wrought from too little practical play experience, but Palladium Fantasy / RIFTS has some "workable" mechanical ideas. Palladium Fantasy is probably a better game than original AD&D, and perfectly fine considering when it came out. While it's a vague mess by modern standards, it's actually clearer than a lot of games of its time. It's certainly clearer and more elegant than most of the Palladium games that would follow, ironically. Unlike Rifts, for example, it actually tells you how to make skill rolls... If you have to play a fantasy game from the late seventies / early eighties you could do a lot worse. Kai Tave posted:This isn't an uncommon opinion, that 1E Palladium Fantasy was pretty decent for the time but that RIFTS is where things really went off the rails. I think you can see most of the warning signs crop up in Robotech (Invid Invasion and Sentinels form a pretty close blueprint for what Rifts would become), and Ninjas & Superspies presaged a lot of what would follow with its general and complete incoherence.
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Sep 16, 2017 04:28
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Which are you thinking of, out of curiosity? Order of the Stick and Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic are the first ones that come to mind.
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Sep 16, 2017 15:22
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paradoxGentleman posted:Order of the Stick and Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic are the first ones that come to mind. Sorry, I meant the one that jumps perspective from players to PCs.
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Sep 16, 2017 15:58
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Table Titans does. D20 Monkey jumps back and forth but the players are the main plot there with subarcs of gaming.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:07
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Bruceski posted:Table Titans does. D20 Monkey jumps back and forth but the players are the main plot there with subarcs of gaming. Thanks, though I feel compelled to say I can think of no greater indictment of webcomics as an industry than the fact that Scott Kurtz still makes a living at it.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:46
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Thanks, though I feel compelled to say I can think of no greater indictment of webcomics as an industry than the fact that Scott Kurtz still makes a living at it. Haha a webcomics "industry". Getting annoyed at Kurtz is like getting annoyed at a jar of mayonnaise.
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Sep 16, 2017 21:10
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Nuns with Guns posted:Haha a webcomics "industry". Swinging this back around to be less of a derail, I feel there is a distinction between webcomics-as-art-form and webcomics-as-industry, just like there is a difference between tradgames-as-hobby and tradgames-as-industry. The industry exists to support the hobby, but the fact that it exists as an industry cannot help but influence and alter the hobby, for better or for worse. Part of that includes perpetual job security for hacks like Kurtz, or say Dancey or GMS or whoever. Why is that, other than a blanket "nerds are terrible"?
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Sep 16, 2017 21:26
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Note that webcomics have become less of a thing now that everyone's got their own podcast.
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Sep 16, 2017 21:31
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I'm not really sure what's so bad about being able to make a living while having sub-genius talent, anyway. I'm pretty sure that's how most people make a living!
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Sep 16, 2017 21:37
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Rand Brittain posted:I'm not really sure what's so bad about being able to make a living while having sub-genius talent, anyway. I'm pretty sure that's how most people make a living! I guess I'm also thinking about people who are actively harmful to the hobby, like Zak S.
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Sep 16, 2017 21:46
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Sorry, I meant the one that jumps perspective from players to PCs. Up to Four Players http://www.uptofourplayers.com/comic/1-campaign-pitch/
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Sep 16, 2017 21:50
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Swinging this back around to be less of a derail, I feel there is a distinction between webcomics-as-art-form and webcomics-as-industry, just like there is a difference between tradgames-as-hobby and tradgames-as-industry. The industry exists to support the hobby, but the fact that it exists as an industry cannot help but influence and alter the hobby, for better or for worse. I think the big difference between webcomics and tabletop RPGs (or even board/minis games) is that webcomics almost invariably start up as a sort of hobby for the creators and may turn into a business through years and years of consistent updates (catering to a fetish helps, if you're amoral/a perv). Art is a secondary plus, but not mandatory and usually the pretty webcomics die off before the creators can make a living on them. TG stuff often starts as a hobby, but there are definitely more semi-professional outlets putting out products. The TG equivalent to consistent updates would be producing tons of games and supplements, but its a lot more involved work than a daily/weekly/monthly webcomic page. Making it big in TG things would mean entering an industry, albeit a niche one with kind of low standards. Making it big in webcomics means entering a space where right now it's a mix of disassociated parts that are slowly forming into an industry and/or jumping onto mainstream comic publishers that are going through their own rocky transition as print dies out.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:19
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Swinging this back around to be less of a derail, I feel there is a distinction between webcomics-as-art-form and webcomics-as-industry, just like there is a difference between tradgames-as-hobby and tradgames-as-industry. The industry exists to support the hobby, but the fact that it exists as an industry cannot help but influence and alter the hobby, for better or for worse. If you're upset about mediocre white dudes making mediocre art and making tons of money off of it I have bad news about every entertainment industry.
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Sep 17, 2017 07:44
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I think you can see most of the warning signs crop up in Robotech (Invid Invasion and Sentinels form a pretty close blueprint for what Rifts would become), and Ninjas & Superspies presaged a lot of what would follow with its general and complete incoherence. But yeah, over the course of Robotech they introduced M.D.C. and then inflated the numbers, and Rifts kind of picked up where that process left off. It also had some totally useless O.C.C.s. I wonder if literally anyone played a Communications Engineer.
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Sep 18, 2017 16:32
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Ewen Cluney posted:But yeah, over the course of Robotech they introduced M.D.C. and then inflated the numbers, and Rifts kind of picked up where that process left off. It also had some totally useless O.C.C.s. I wonder if literally anyone played a Communications Engineer. Yeah, I've commented before on how Rifts is an amalgamation of all their previous games with (generally) better art. You also have mutant animals from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness and psionics from Beyond the Supernatural and Heroes Unlimited. Even Recon leaves its mark on the skill system - the number of radio skills mades a lot more sense for a Vietnam War-based RPG where that sort of thing is essential, not so much when it's copy-pasted into their other games. Speaking of bad classes, Rifts' infamous Vagabond is borrowed from the class of the same name in Invid Invasion - the one used to simulate Annie. You know, just in case you wanted to play a character like Annie.
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Sep 18, 2017 17:40
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I'm surprised companies like White Wolf and Palladium haven't really done much to get their IPs mainstream recognition. There was that Vampire show in the 90s no one remembers. A really good movie or tv show and they'd have a ton of people buying in out of curiosity. Nuns with Guns posted:Getting annoyed at Kurtz is like getting annoyed at a jar of mayonnaise. That stupid nearly empty jar kept falling out of my fridge whenever I was moving stuff around last week.  One thing I remember about Kurtz was PvP was one of the major webcomics to feature D&D sessions as a regular thing back when he still made gaming jokes, yet he couldn't be assed to draw a tribute strip when Gary Gygax died.
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Sep 19, 2017 00:11
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super sweet best pal posted:I'm surprised companies like White Wolf and Palladium haven't really done much to get their IPs mainstream recognition. There was that Vampire show in the 90s no one remembers. It's not for the lack of trying. There have been at least five White Wolf video games (two Vampire games, three Hunter games) and a Werewolf one that was never finished. Palladium was trying to negotiate a movie production or cartoon for ages, and Siembieda would probably lose his poo poo at the idea of Rifts toys. A big issue with either is probably not being willing to just sell off all the rights, though, or give total creative control over to a third party. But there have always been attempts. Actually getting somebody to sign on to movie or the like these days requires a lot of "heat" or luck, though, and neither has had much "heat" since the nineties.
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Sep 19, 2017 00:27
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super sweet best pal posted:I'm surprised companies like White Wolf and Palladium haven't really done much to get their IPs mainstream recognition. There was that Vampire show in the 90s no one remembers. Even if they had the desire, few TTRPGs really have unique setting concepts that you can't get from somewhere else, and those companies and creators are generally a lot easier to work with. A production company wanting to make an urban vampire movie is generally going to find it easier to work with Marvel on Blade than with White Wolf on V:tM. TTRPG is very much a hobbyist industry and few publishers have the wherewithal to handle IP licensing well. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 00:34
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Alien Rope Burn posted:three Hunter games) That Is So Tabletop(tm)
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Sep 19, 2017 00:58
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Rifts action figures would actually be cool. Thanks Kevin Long and company for your good designs!
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Sep 19, 2017 01:25
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