|
Barry Convex posted:I made a gif of it This is the best thread.
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 18:47 |
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:did you know the server was actually bill's fault that loving blackberry
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
zegermans posted:gotcha I'm pretty sure you've been saying that Bernie was a shitbird for not giving up early probably for over a year now, so I don't think gotcha is appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
zegermans posted:that's not really wrong though is it? I mean it's wrong that the DNC was doing lovely sniping about Bernie internally, but it was absolutely in the bag before May Sorta just keep answering your own questions there  DNC is supposed to be impartial and the e-mails showed that they were anything BUT impartial so bias leads to rigging, and you'd have to be naive to handwave that favoritism, as innocuous as it's deliberately designed to look like, already curries towards a candidate and that's specifically supposed to be illegal but people don't want to handwring over the technicalities because *huffs* we're moving on, its closed, its settled, forget about it *huffs* It sets a bad precedent and it already makes people distrustful and contemptuous of the process, and Hillary here is just speeding that up by being contemptuous of the people who are contemptuous so there is basically no reconciliation here. thats the important issue, not whether to naval gaze about "where's your proof of rigging huh?" because even a soft thing like favoritism already is slanted to ruin credibility that the DNC is supposed to be fricking impartial in the first place. The damage is done.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
Lastgirl posted:im glad of it, look i like your posts sometimes and you make good points and i agree with you a lot but you can get a little stuffy and rigid sometimes and I'm sure I get a little too irreverent like that so we have a bit of a stylistic issue here. Yeah, it's cool, I realize that I'm not as C-SPAMmy ITT as I could be sometimes, there just aren't many places to talk about the Dems that aren't full of D&D types and you guys get it y'know? I can probably try keeping Condiv company in the dems are a waste thread, lord knows he needs the help
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Look, just because there was a ton of evidence that people who set the rules were extremely biased, that doesn't matter because the contest happened a long time ago.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:did you know the server was actually bill's fault Like, even from the most cold-blooded, pragmatic, politically realist perspective, how is the obvious course of action for her not to take full responsibility for this, and thus, I dunno, gain back at least a little of the respect you've lost?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:Look, just because there was a ton of evidence that people who set the rules were extremely biased, that doesn't matter because the contest happened a long time ago. I think there was a court case over it that got thrown out because they successfully made the case that they can rig their own primary if they want to (literally what happened in the Deflategate appeal btw, not sayin, just sayin)
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Like, even from the most cold-blooded, pragmatic, politically realist perspective, how is the obvious course of action for her not to take full responsibility for this, and thus, I dunno, gain back at least a little of the respect you've lost? i used to think she was cold-blooded, pragmatic, and politically "realist" but post this book i think she's been surrounded by sycophants for so long it's not conscious anymore
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
"Lastgirl" posted:It sets a bad precedent and it already makes people distrustful and contemptuous of the process, and Hillary here is just speeding that up by being contemptuous of the people who are contemptuous so there is basically no reconciliation here. it also highlights the whole "why does Hillary have a trust problem" thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:I'm pretty sure you've been saying that Bernie was a shitbird for not giving up early probably for over a year now, so I don't think gotcha is appropriate. word
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:i used to think she was cold-blooded, pragmatic, and politically "realist" but post this book i think she's been surrounded by sycophants for so long it's not conscious anymore Yeah, that's one of the most grotesque things about it: there's nothing less pragmatic than the strategy of these self-described "pragmatists." But even then, you'd think their self-image as practical statesmen would guide them a bit more. Guess not! \/\/\/yeah, that's about the size of it\/\/\/
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Like, even from the most cold-blooded, pragmatic, politically realist perspective, how is the obvious course of action for her not to take full responsibility for this, and thus, I dunno, gain back at least a little of the respect you've lost? this book isn't about redeeming herself to the 80% of the US that hates her, it's about cementing herself as a martyr to the 20% who don't.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
you know this explains the victim complex the hillary die hards have. if you accept her version of events as true then the only possible explanation is there must exist some cosmic force that loving hates her
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:did you know the server was actually bill's fault does she not even know the reason the email server was an issue because of perception? like, the whole public/private position thing, not releasing the wall st speeches, drowning out discussions she had with donors. all of that was part of a larger image and the email server played into the fact that she was (perhaps rightfully, in many cases) secretive. it was a bullshit scandal but was a perfect metaphor for her flaws as a politician. the fact that she didn't kill the issue immediately is why it, of all the scandals, stuck. it was bullshit, but it had the same air as everything else and was the only scandal that lingered due to her own incompetence and often-changing answers to it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
The primary was over in April...2015. But are we really surprised that Sanders drug it out in order to give the media more time to drag Hillary through the mud? He couldn't even get out of the way when the election was over--the primary OR the general.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
Bruce Rappaport wrote the Medicare For All bill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
Hold on, I thought the primary wasn't actually mathematically over all the way up to california?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
anime was right posted:does she not even know lemme stop you right there
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
anime was right posted:does she not even know the reason the email server was an issue because of perception? No that would need self awareness
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
Zhulik posted:Hold on, I thought the primary wasn't actually mathematically over all the way up to california? the primary still being a tossup into california requires such a lopsided turnout for bernie that the primary effectively ended with new york
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:you know this explains the victim complex the hillary die hards have. if you accept her version of events as true then the only possible explanation is there must exist some cosmic force that loving hates her i mean, to be fair, the 20 year campaign against her from republicans was absolute horseshit and i still think the underlying misogyny from it change her as a person (for the worse), but there was so much still in her control and she ran against donald trump so i can't really not blame her for losing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Zhulik posted:Hold on, I thought the primary wasn't actually mathematically over all the way up to california? Technically, but Bernie shouldn't have even tried to run so him staying in for any amount of time was too long.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
bennyfranks posted:The primary was over in April...2015. But are we really surprised that Sanders drug it out in order to give the media more time to drag Hillary through the mud? He couldn't even get out of the way when the election was over--the primary OR the general. that guy is so unbelievable, I swear He was shooting hoops too, and making nothing but net! His arrogance knows no bounds *huffs in disgust* Like hello, we're trying to win a democratic race and yer playing basketball instead of talking about the issues???
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:you know this explains the victim complex the hillary die hards have. if you accept her version of events as true then the only possible explanation is there must exist some cosmic force that loving hates her Given that there has been a constant, sustained campaign of abuse from the right against both Clintons stretching back to at least the early 90s I can kinda sorta understand falling into this mindset, but seriously we should have seen she'd gotten deranged about it back in 2008 when she tried to play Obama's campaign as a "vast left-wing conspiracy."
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
anime was right posted:does she not even know the reason the email server was an issue because of perception? like, the whole public/private position thing, not releasing the wall st speeches, drowning out discussions she had with donors. all of that was part of a larger image and the email server played into the fact that she was (perhaps rightfully, in many cases) secretive. it was a bullshit scandal but was a perfect metaphor for her flaws as a politician. the fact that she didn't kill the issue immediately is why it, of all the scandals, stuck. it was bullshit, but it had the same air as everything else and was the only scandal that lingered due to her own incompetence and often-changing answers to it. actually what the issue was was how incompetent her staff was that they couldn't make the issue go away no matter how many times she yelled at them
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
zegermans posted:the primary was effectively over by march 1, I'm not sure 3 months made that huge of a difference Actually, research indicates that political ads only have a measurable impact in the final weeks before a vote takes place. This makes sense, as the great majority of persuadable people 1) aren't wasting much time thinking about politics months out like we do and 2) arent terribly informed about the candidates in the first place (not anchored in their thinking). So in essence, all the anti-Bernie stuff came out when it actually mattered most, or even at all, arguably. Most people don't decide on their vote until shortly before casting it; the average is one or two weeks out, iirc. This is also why the final Comey development was real bad while the Trump grab em by the pussy debacle wasn't so bad--the former hit at the time of maximum potential impact. Vox Nihili has issued a correction as of 21:06 on Sep 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
A sustained campaign of of abuse, also known as partisan politics.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
anime was right posted:i mean, to be fair, the 20 year campaign against her from republicans was absolute horseshit and i still think the underlying misogyny from it change her as a person (for the worse), but there was so much still in her control and she ran against donald trump so i can't really not blame her for losing. A sane take.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:No that would need self awareness Raskolnikov38 posted:lemme stop you right there yea yea lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:05
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Given that there has been a constant, sustained campaign of abuse from the right against both Clintons stretching back to at least the early 90s I can kinda sorta understand falling into this mindset, but seriously we should have seen she'd gotten deranged about it back in 2008 when she tried to play Obama's campaign as a "vast left-wing conspiracy." It's not the healthy way of growing though, like becoming defensive and turning it into a bunker mentality, you start to divorce responsibility for even the minor things and it becomes a habit and it snowballs into this..this thing we're seeing in live time right now, it's all a culmination. that atlantic article still had it right, power makes people smoothbrained because this is literally hillary: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/power-causes-brain-damage/528711/ quote:Subjects under the influence of power, he found in studies spanning two decades, acted as if they had suffered a traumatic brain injury—becoming more impulsive, less risk-aware, and, crucially, less adept at seeing things from other people’s point of view. its not a real brain injury ofc, but the psychology is there, it allows you to shift your decision making and then divert the responsibility onto something else so you get the perception that you are not culpable for that decision because you assigned it to someone else, whereas you were the originator but there's a disconnect to that. So here we are, the reindeer game of blame~
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
hillary would have won if only republicans were the polite "center right" republicans that liberals somehow think exist instead of them all being the apocalyptic death cult slash "more money for us gently caress you" types they've been for 50 years
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:hillary would have won if only republicans were the polite "center right" republicans that liberals somehow think exist instead of them all being the apocalyptic death cult slash "more money for us gently caress you" types they've been for 50 years pretty much.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
anime was right posted:i mean, to be fair, the 20 year campaign against her from republicans was absolute horseshit and i still think the underlying misogyny from it change her as a person (for the worse), but there was so much still in her control and she ran against donald trump so i can't really not blame her for losing. I remember hearing (and making, let's be honest) the argument that one of the points in her favor is that she took decades of poo poo from the right wing and it didn't break her. Then it turned out that it kind of did. And I think 2016 completed the job of, er, shattering her. I think (probably uniquely in the suck zone) that what we're seeing now isn't Hillary Clinton As She Always Was, we're seeing What Little Remains Of Hillary Clinton, just the hollow remains of someone that could once have been, well, probably not a great leader but an okay one, now driven only by malice and spite to feast on the souls of the living. Or maybe that's Dracula. One of those.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
the Comey thing was complete bullshit tho media bad
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
anime was right posted:does she not even know the reason the email server was an issue because of perception? like, the whole public/private position thing, not releasing the wall st speeches, drowning out discussions she had with donors. all of that was part of a larger image and the email server played into the fact that she was (perhaps rightfully, in many cases) secretive. it was a bullshit scandal but was a perfect metaphor for her flaws as a politician. the fact that she didn't kill the issue immediately is why it, of all the scandals, stuck. it was bullshit, but it had the same air as everything else and was the only scandal that lingered due to her own incompetence and often-changing answers to it. HRC is comically/tragically bad at optics. her ineptitude at avoiding the appearance of impropriety has been way more damaging than any actual impropriety on her part
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:hillary would have won if only republicans were the polite "center right" republicans that liberals somehow think exist instead of them all being the apocalyptic death cult slash "more money for us gently caress you" types they've been for 50 years If that were true they also wouldn't have picked El Trumpo and it would have just been Rubio or Kasich stomping her in hilarious, 1980-tier fashion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
I think Hillary is actually fine, chilling in her multimillion dollar mansions, socializing with the wealthiest people on the planet, shielded from any scrutiny unless she chooses to engage with the public. If she is a terrible victim of world's injustices, inevitably broken by the weight of inequity, I want to be one as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
the two decades of republican smears were legit gross but so was framing leftist critique of her as being rooted in them
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 18:47 |
|
|
there was definitely some sort of cosmic karma/retribution going wrt the primaries the republicans wished they had a superdelegate system the dems wished they had simple majority system
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2017 21:13
|
|
