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loving love the cult of personality western leftists have developed over the russian revolution and the soviet union though. it’s really funny and just teenage rebellion as gently caress
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Sep 15, 2017 22:49
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Taxing capitalists has accomplished more than the planned economies of russia where they couldn't even get jeans right.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:50
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steinrokkan posted:Cuba is great if you are willing to forego all the modern conveniences. like "healthcare"
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Sep 15, 2017 22:50
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:loving love the cult of personality western leftists have developed over the russian revolution and the soviet union though. it’s really funny and just teenage rebellion as gently caress this is a teenage as gently caress thing to say.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:50
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John Steinbeck posted:Except for the field organizers of strikes, who were pretty tough monkeys and devoted, most of the so-called Communists I met were middle-class, middle-aged people playing a game of dreams. I remember a woman in easy circumstances saying to another even more affluent: 'After the revolution even we will have more, won't we, dear?' Then there was another lover of proletarians who used to raise hell with Sunday picknickers on her property.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:51
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Maya Fey posted:like "healthcare" give them the option to leave and see if they stay
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Sep 15, 2017 22:51
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Steinbeck was a huuuuge buzzkill man.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:52
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:this is a teenage as gently caress thing to say. ya lol sure it’s me that’s the idiot teen rather than the peeps who know so much about russia they make this happen https://twitter.com/seansrussiablog/status/892784689353826304
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Sep 15, 2017 22:53
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communism does away with the "profit taking" motive, otherwise known as "self interest," and always leads to inefficiencies and corruption. Find me a planned economy that hasn't.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:54
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This thread was better when it was about posting dumb things you can buy and not dipshits crying "B-b-b-b-but Communism bad!" and defending the maiden honor of corporate overlords.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:57
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Who What Now posted:defending the maiden honor of corporate overlords. turn on your monitor
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Sep 15, 2017 22:59
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Also for real you don't know what you're talking about because probably the only E. Europeans you do talk to are ones in the West. Hint hint they had money. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/ quote:A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process. http://www.balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/ quote:The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied. http://www.spiegel.de/international...m-a-634122.html quote:Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR. http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country quote:A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism". quote:Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided. Anyway, enough of this. Back to dumb products. 
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Sep 15, 2017 23:10
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[quote="“COMRADES”" post="“476440569”"] Also for real you don’t know what you’re talking about because probably the only E. Europeans you do talk to are ones in the West. Hint hint they had money. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/ http://www.balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/ http://www.spiegel.de/international...m-a-634122.html http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country http://www.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx Anyway, enough of this. Back to dumb products. [/quote] read me psot again
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Sep 15, 2017 23:16
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That wasn't directed at you that was to the earlier post about "I talked to people from E Europe and they all think communism was bad and you're dumb and poor."
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Sep 15, 2017 23:20
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COMRADES posted:Also shrinking profits are an inherent part of capitalist economics which is why development of new markets is so important. How do you not realize that mass immigration simply amounts to strike-breaking at a national level? Leftists will go on and on about unions, yet in your hearts you love nothing more than the opportunity to get the scab a job. Economic migrants already bailed on their first nation when the opportunity presented itself, and in doing so they commit themselves to the 13th hell of capitalism: an existence without ownership of the means of production. They bring no durable goods such as furniture, little to no capital goods such as a car, a refrigerator, a machine shop built by their father, a cattle herd raised by their grandfather. Capitalism does an excellent job at recognizing three things: the skill-sets developed by the individual, stewardship that doesn't involve murdering specialized workers, and the need for growing productivity. Since you act like you've read Capital you should know that to have super-profits firms need to have high productivity. To have high productivity you need to have a growing or stable ratio of capitol goods to workers, and also need a growing or stable ratio of man-hours invested in a skillset. You can't have this ratio when there is a continuous stream of people that have none of these things, and have not built or otherwise invested in any of these things. The "correct opinion" is to admire economic migrants for their blatant opportunism, and praise them for their virility as we will surely be saved from financial collapse by stuffing three of their kids to every two native into an already crowded, and under-funded system of education and medicine. Meanwhile the E/N thread is nothing but life is meaningless, and the world is so awful that i'd never have children. Of course if we take the racial narrative seriously, this hurts the children of the actual Africans brought here as slaves far more than the children of slave-owners. Never mind that the democrats were a party of slavery, this time it's actually for good reasons that we want to have more people out in the fields picking crops by hand. We're very progressive. By raising the minimum wage for people doing the most menial of work we'll fix everything, and will most certainly drive that racist 5th generation farmer at the edge of town out of business by driving his margins down so far deep he'll never be able to afford the replacement combine he needs to avoid having to hiring 15 more people. At that point we'll just have a mega-corporation with a diversity program to take over the land, and administer to it's new slum of workers. Don't worry they provide a corporate prison service too! Since the dustbowl came up earlier, how many of you actually read and remember "Grapes of Wrath"? There was no promised land in California. No one found their imagined happiness. They went from being landowners with their own crops to picking crops for the wealthy California bankers riding around in bullet proof cars. They were resented, and resentful, yet again people will claim that somehow things will be different this time. Diversity is good! Have you heard wages have been stagnant for over 30 years! We need to raise the H1-B visa limit! We need more visa's for agricultural laborers! The rhetoric is that capitalism creates racism, misogyny, etc. yet a post later there's a detailed demand that due to the sins of the father to the 20th generation such and such identity group is owed some absurd capitulation. They are godless people. Nietzschean watchmen. By loudly proclaiming God is dead they hope to supplant him and become god themselves, while failing to realize the irony in how much more vindictive, and unforgiving their new god is. They do not love their neighbor. They would consider it their greatest accomplishment to have incited an orgy of violence against their neighbors. Violent revolution, while failing to realize they would most likely doom themselves and many more to starvation, all the while believing that this time it will be different.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:21
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also nice bandwagon fallacy lol
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Sep 15, 2017 23:21
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Split Pea Superman posted:How do you not realize that mass immigration simply amounts to strike-breaking at a national level? Leftists will go on and on about unions, yet in your hearts you love nothing more than the opportunity to get the scab a job. Economic migrants already bailed on their first nation when the opportunity presented itself, and in doing so they commit themselves to the 13th hell of capitalism: an existence without ownership of the means of production. They bring no durable goods such as furniture, little to no capital goods such as a car, a refrigerator, a machine shop built by their father, a cattle herd raised by their grandfather. Capitalism does an excellent job at recognizing three things: the skill-sets developed by the individual, stewardship that doesn't involve murdering specialized workers, and the need for growing productivity. Since you act like you've read Capital you should know that to have super-profits firms need to have high productivity. To have high productivity you need to have a growing or stable ratio of capitol goods to workers, and also need a growing or stable ratio of man-hours invested in a skillset. You can't have this ratio when there is a continuous stream of people that have none of these things, and have not built or otherwise invested in any of these things. lol nice meltdown. I'm not even going to bother responding to this crap because it is so full of issues I'd spend another hour here and gently caress that on Friday. quote:Never mind that the democrats were a party of slavery, Like, are you dumb for real?
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Sep 15, 2017 23:23
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I mean I could just link to that effort post I made a few days ago about how it is empirically a fact that immigrants ranging from low skill to high skill have been a positive for our economy ever since the foundation of this country but really what's the point, your gut feels dictate your world views. Think about this though genius: more population = more jobs required. If a million immigrants come here they all need somewhere to live, something to eat, products to buy, etc. They aren't just a black hole into which wages disappear and the lack of decent jobs has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with the continual attacks on the demand curve. e: and gently caress here I go again I need to just learn to say "lol" and move on COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 23:24
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Maya Fey posted:like "healthcare" do you mean paying for healthcare
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Sep 15, 2017 23:26
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Split Pea Superman posted:How do you not realize that mass immigration simply amounts to strike-breaking at a national level? Leftists will go on and on about unions, yet in your hearts you love nothing more than the opportunity to get the scab a job. For just pennies a day you can rescue tortured analogies from their abusive owners.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:27
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[quote="“COMRADES”" post="“476440953”"] I mean I could just link to that effort post I made a few days ago about how it is empirically a fact that immigrants ranging from low skill to high skill have been a positive for our economy ever since the foundation of this country but really what’s the point, your gut feels dictate your world views. Think about this though genius: more population = more jobs required. If a million immigrants come here they all need somewhere to live, something to eat, products to buy, etc. They aren’t just a black hole into which wages disappear and the lack of decent jobs has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with the continual attacks on the demand curve. e: and gently caress here I go again I need to just learn to call people dumb and move on [/quote] sorry mordy but as a self described leftist your fate is to be engaged in fruitless discourse on the internet, forever
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Sep 15, 2017 23:27
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:sorry mordy but as a self described leftist your fate is to be engaged in fruitless discourse on the internet, forever I have no keyboard and I must post
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Sep 15, 2017 23:30
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:sorry mordy but as a self described leftist your fate is to be engaged in fruitless discourse on the internet, forever huh guess the left and right do have a lot of similarities.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:30
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Magius1337est posted:communism does away with the "profit taking" motive, otherwise known as "self interest," and always leads to inefficiencies and corruption. Find me a planned economy that hasn't. Capitalist economy is the product of managerial workers following their self interest and competing against each other to the detriment of the interests of their organization, and of the public. In that regard it is different from the Communist economies wrt efficiency to a degree, but not in principle. The only way to overcome the corporate feudalism that comes from organizational hierarchy in corporations is democratic socialism.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:31
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they think they will come over here and get rich that's the lure that's the bait and when they get here they are treated like slaves and blamed for taking jobs that no one else will do end up in prison deported or just out right killed and they never really escape the third world conditions in the land of plenty the land of the free meanwhile we post about it on a dead gay comedy forum Lead Pill Me Now
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Sep 15, 2017 23:31
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:loving love the cult of personality western leftists have developed over the russian revolution and the soviet union though. it’s really funny and just teenage rebellion as gently caress Literal Stalinists equating deliberate systematic genocide to a failure to cure all shortages globally: "why doesn't anyone take communists seriously, they must be so brainwashed  "
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 23:41
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Literal Stalinists equating systematic genocide to the existence of prisons: "why doesn't anyone take communists seriously, they must be so brainwashed Oh you think the gulag system was systematic genocide eh? Another person who knows poo poo all about history lmao. The gulag system had ~100,000 prisoners at its height and it wasn't ever designed as a "let's kill all of the X." It was for political prisoners and dissidents. You might be confusing the gulags with holodomor? For comparison the USA has over 2 million people incarcerated (not counting black sites!) and millions more on probation. Also for the record I compared the gulags to CIA black sites not just regular prisons. Angola just got a special mention because we literally have black people picking cotton for big corporations for 30 years because they were arrested for having marijuana. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 23:41
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Literal Stalinists equating systematic genocide to the existence of prisons: "why doesn't anyone take communists seriously, they must be so brainwashed 
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Sep 15, 2017 23:44
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Besides again I'll be the first to say yeah Stalin was a paranoiac megalomaniac and he was bad. What's your point here really? If you really think all leftism = Stalinism then you're dumb as hell regardless of how many words you type about it.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:45
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COMRADES posted:Oh you think the gulag system was systematic genocide eh? Sry my mistake y'all were equating genocide to the fact that in parts of the world there's still malaria, I'll edit for accuracy
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Sep 15, 2017 23:46
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Sry my mistake y'all were equating genocide to the fact that in parts of the world there's still malaria, I'll edit for accuracy Ohh you're mad about that graphic that mentions how every year 500,000 die of easily preventable malaria? How do you feel about the Indonesian genocide of 1965?
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Sep 15, 2017 23:46
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COMRADES posted:What's your point here really? That if the answers in the middle it means my stance of doing nothing is justified.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:47
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quote:Initially it began as an anti-communist purge following a controversial coup attempt by the 30 September Movement in Indonesia. The most widely published estimates were that 500,000 to more than one million people were killed,[8][9] with some more recent estimates going as high as two to three million.[2][10] The purge was a pivotal event in the transition to the "New Order" and the elimination of the Indonesian Communist Party (PKI) as a political force. The upheavals led to the fall of President Sukarno and the commencement of Suharto's three-decade authoritarian presidency. quote:It really was a big help to the army. They probably killed a lot of people, and I probably have a lot of blood on my hands, but that's not all bad. There's a time when you have to strike hard at a decisive moment. Oh but yeah we are shining city on hill no bad things!!! quote:Kai Thaler asserts that declassified documents show that "U.S. officials were accessories to this mass murder" and "helped create the conditions for the killings."[4] Bradley Simpson, Director of the Indonesia/East Timor Documentation Project at the National Security Archive,[126] contends that this was "an army-led and U.S.-backed campaign of extermination"[127] and claims that documents[128] show "the United States was directly involved to the extent that they provided the Indonesian Armed Forces with assistance that they introduced to help facilitate the mass killings," which included the CIA providing small arms from Thailand, and the US government providing monetary assistance and limited amounts of communications equipment, medicine and a range of other items, including shoes and uniforms, to the Indonesian military.[129][130][131] SHINING CITY ON HILL NO BAD COMRADES fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 23:47
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*teleports back to 90s Poland* Hmm yes this promised land of communism sure is great! I especially like all the crumbling grey concrete and lack of public infrastructure that is less than 30 years old. Now let's ask the neighbours about their son who was taken by police at night and never seen again.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:48
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funny how this picture of communists that only exists in my head and would make any historian laugh proves my point though
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Sep 15, 2017 23:49
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Breakfast Feud posted:I especially like all the crumbling grey concrete and lack of public infrastructure that is less than 30 years old. But enough about America you were talking about Poland.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:50
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Sedisp posted:But enough about America you were talking about Poland. 
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Sep 15, 2017 23:51
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It's okay that we enforce brutal economic policies that result in chaos in the third world so our corporations can more easily and cheaply extract resources which causes misery and death all over the globe because once upon a time Stalin existed and you wouldn't want to ever try to change anything would you? You might get a Stalin!!! sp00ky scARy sOCiaLISTS
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Sep 15, 2017 23:53
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COMRADES posted:I mean I could just link to that effort post I made a few days ago about how it is empirically a fact that immigrants ranging from low skill to high skill have been a positive for our economy ever since the foundation of this country but really what's the point, your gut feels dictate your world views. First: do you know what empiricism is? Second: do you not understand that the "more jobs" ends up being a new McDonald's and another field of strawberries to pick by hand? If there are no capital goods to valorize there are no profits. Immigrants don't have capital goods. They hardly have even durable goods. I suppose I'd prefer the Dept. of Education hire another ESL teacher to another Marxist professor, but sometimes you can get both in one package!
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Sep 15, 2017 23:56
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For accurate depiction of commies, see Hail Caesar
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