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Pierogi posted:There's a conspiracy theory that the east bloc governments were actively pushing ufos, psychic powers, etc. to drag people away from the church. Isn't that what Posadism is?
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Sep 14, 2017 03:56
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A Pale Horse posted:The Russians at least have the decency to shoot or poison or bomb you to death quote:In November 2008, neighbors had found Beketov lying in his front yard in Khimki, more than 24 hours after unidentified assailants crushed his skull, broke his legs, smashed both hands, and left him to die in the cold. Physicians removed part of Beketov's brain after the attack, and amputated a leg as well as some fingers, according to news reports. Edit: another interesting statistic about our favorite superpower 
Dwesa fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 08:05
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Dwesa posted:Eh, not always. I bet they don't count outhouses
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Sep 14, 2017 08:18
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Karmalis posted:I bet they don't count outhouses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proportion_of_the_population_using_improved_sanitation_facilities https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.ACSN?view=map Dwesa fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 08:47
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Dwesa posted:WHO is including also pit latrines with slabs or pour-flush into a category of "improved sanitation", so it's not really that exclusive and yet, Russia is still around 72%. Yeah thought so. Also, is everyone ready for the beach party of Zapadlo 2017 starting today? I'm sure I am. Very few ladies though. Or so I have been told.
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Sep 14, 2017 08:59
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Zapad (West) 2017 began today in Belarus. So far there's this: http://kyky.org/pain/rasplyazhit-sklon-i-ne-poteryat-miny-kak-ya-stroil-zapad-2017 Spending lots of time moving piles of dirt and shaping them into mounds flattened into ramps. Sounds like fun. quote:Preparing for the West-2017 exercise is something that is equivalent to the war time. Those who disagree with the conditions were politely listened to and sent to the guardhouse to stand in a cell for about ten days and think about their behavior. Neither days off nor leaves. Only duty to the Motherland. Has some very interesting observations about Russian military. quote:
Read it all.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:29
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Lightning Lord posted:Isn't that what Posadism is? No, Posadism was a Trotskyist tendency (well, a cult tbqh), so nothing to do with Eastern Bloc governments. Plus the "Interstellar Comrades bringing communism to our backward planet" thing was a later development, the Posadists were initially best known for the idea that total nuclear war is desirable and that true communism will arise from the ashes of the post-apocalypse. Which, uh... Honestly, I find the Ayy Lmaoism aspect less crazy, the idea of E.T. coming to bring us into the post-scarcity Galactic Marxist Federation is at least a nice fantasy, but why would you agitate in favor of a nuclear holocaust 
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Sep 15, 2017 10:24
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Posadsim was like a partial flip from materialism back to Hegelian idealism. They argued that the important thing about the progress towards socialism was the consciousness, the ideology extant at any given level of social development, and that while a nuclear war would destroy most of humanity and material culture, that was insignificant as it left the level of ideology and consciousness unaffected. Thus the nuclear war would wipe the slate clean, so to speak, for a movement that could utilize this consciousness in the newly vacated space of a post-nuclear Earth, unhindered by the bourgeois institutions standing in the way currently. They didn't consider that ideology - consciousness are dependent on the material reality which they describe, and so a radical destruction of material conditions would necessarily render them meaningless.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 10:45
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Did not followers of Posadism believe that any aliens visiting had to be perfect communist socity, and that one should therefor colleberate with aliens in taking over Earth?
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Sep 15, 2017 11:41
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If you want to see a bunch of clowns, look up "Christian State" (in Russia).
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Sep 15, 2017 14:54
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cinci zoo sniper posted:If you want to see a bunch of clowns, look up "Christian State" (in Russia). Ha-ha, yes! Incidentally, I've just read this article on them. https://meduza.io/feature/2017/09/14/pravoslavnaya-strana-dolzhna-byt-takoy-kak-iran 'The Orthodox State Must Be Like Iran'. The dude is responsible for the barrage of false calls about bombs at cinemas where the film about Nicholas' II relationship with a ballet dancer is shown. It's already cost Russia millions, and even Vladimir Medinsky, Russian minister of culture who is a rather 'patriotic' public figure, is now very cross with this organisation.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:13
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Paladinus posted:Ha-ha, yes! Incidentally, I've just read this article on them. They're already dead, I think. https://ria.ru/religion/20170915/1504849828.html The patriarchate is asking to strip rights to use religious denominators from organisations not directly related to them.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:24
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Wonder if that includes various "orthodox activist" sorts threatening art exhibits? On a lighter, but related note: https://mobile.twitter.com/opendemocracyru/status/908694951122391041
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Sep 15, 2017 18:04
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OddObserver posted:Wonder if that includes various "orthodox activist" sorts threatening art exhibits? Should apply to pretty much everyone outside actual church, i.e. what church thinks they can get away with impunity. Might slip into obscurity in the post-election season though, since now bomb-callers will just get shat on even if they did only prank just a single pig farm in Nenets, to show the law and order.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:07
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It's interesting how many religious people are attached to an incompetent and weak ruler that got nickname "Bloody".
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Sep 15, 2017 19:57
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cinci zoo sniper posted:..since now bomb-callers will just get shat on even if they did only prank just a single pig farm in Nenets, to show the law and order. Wrong animal. 
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Sep 15, 2017 20:13
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For those that might be interested in quick recap (12 pages) of various pro-Kremlin political organizations, paramilitary groups and media operating in Visegrad group countries:quote:The Visegrad Countries and “Post-Truth” Dwesa fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 10:36
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Russia's busy making friends today. https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/909002397397200896
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Sep 16, 2017 12:36
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Sinteres posted:Russia's busy making friends today. Well, the alcoholist fascist is still Czech president, so, you could that it czechs out.
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Sep 16, 2017 12:42
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Sinteres posted:Russia's busy making friends today. Zapad 2017 - More than just tanks and amphibious assault simulations!
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Sep 16, 2017 12:56
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Sinteres posted:Russia's busy making friends today.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:14
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The truth doesn't always make friends. Poland doomed Europe to suffer the horrors of WW2 by preferring to stab Czechoslovakia in the back rather than support the Soviet-Czech anti-German alliance. Poland more than paid for that, and Russia making GBS threads all over a country it effectively occupied for decades after stabbing it in the back in turn, in order to make its own crimes seem less awful, isn't exactly a brave stand for truth and justice.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The truth doesn't always make friends. Poland doomed Europe to suffer the horrors of WW2 by preferring to stab Czechoslovakia in the back rather than support the Soviet-Czech anti-German alliance. Newsflash: the Soviets were not the good guys in WW2, they were just the bad guys on the other side (and even that only after a certain point). And if you're talking about dooming to horrors, look up Ribbentrop-Molotov first. gently caress off.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:19
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Funny story about how those lands ended in Czechoslovakia: there was supposed to be a local vote but since Poland was fighting Bolshevik Russia Czechoslovak government just took them. When Polish government resigned the claim (since they were in various stages of hostile to warring with the rest save Romania) and simply asked for the transfer of ammo and weapons delivery from France Czechoslovak government said "lol, gently caress you".
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Sep 16, 2017 13:41
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Sinteres posted:Poland more than paid for that, and Russia making GBS threads all over a country it effectively occupied for decades after stabbing it in the back in turn, in order to make its own crimes seem less awful, isn't exactly a brave stand for truth and justice. They invaded and occupied both parties involved in this case. Poland twice in a row.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:42
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Aumanor posted:Newsflash: the Soviets were not the good guys in WW2, they were just the bad guys on the other side (and even that only after a certain point). And if you're talking about dooming to horrors, look up Ribbentrop-Molotov first. gently caress off.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:48
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alex314 posted:Funny story about how those lands ended in Czechoslovakia: there was supposed to be a local vote but since Poland was fighting Bolshevik Russia Czechoslovak government just took them. When Polish government resigned the claim (since they were in various stages of hostile to warring with the rest save Romania) and simply asked for the transfer of ammo and weapons delivery from France Czechoslovak government said "lol, gently caress you". lol The war broke out after the Poles had started militarizing the disputed territory and recruiting Tesin men into their army, against the provisional agreement to keep the territory politically neutral. Only then, after an intervention of Entente powers did Poland and Czechoslovakia agree to hold a plebiscite, and eventually it was Poland that refused to actually carry it out because the German speaking minority was likely to pick Czechoslovakia over Poland, and because enthusiasm of Polish citizens for joining independent Poland was starting to get more lukewarm, giving Prague an upper hand steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 13:49
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Oh noes, those dastardly Poles which attacked us,and we had to defend by taking the territories and never doing the vote afterwards.
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Sep 16, 2017 13:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The ship had sailed for peace in Europe by the time Ribbentrop-Molotov came around, so the Soviets were just embracing the horrors of the path that Europe had been set on. Obviously they were themselves very much one of those, but they did start out as bad guys on the good guy side, before they became convinced that trying to work something out with the western powers was a no go. They wanted to occupy Poland with a million troops placed in strategic locatiins throughout the country "just in case" Germany invaded. At a time they were pretty antagonistic to Poland. Poland was not stupid to turn this down. They didn't need to "work something out" with the Western powers to oppose Germany - it's a thing they already did by existing next to Poland right up until they decided they'd get part of europe by joining up with the (at the time winning) Axis. If they'd met the Germans in the middle of Poland with artillery rather than parades and ammunition shipments the war would have been over very quickly.
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Sep 16, 2017 14:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The ship had sailed for peace in Europe by the time Ribbentrop-Molotov came around, so the Soviets were just embracing the horrors of the path that Europe had been set on. Obviously they were themselves very much one of those, but they did start out as bad guys on the good guy side, before they became convinced that trying to work something out with the western powers was a no go. TBF, Poland was tied to France, which rejected aiding Czechoslovakia first. Also in previous attempts to form an eastern counterpart to the Locarno pact, Russia only ever agreed to mobilize against Germany in the case of an unanimous agreement between France, the USSR and their junior partners, so the question remains if the USSR would have actually decided to fight in 1938 if they had failed to convince France to join them.
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Sep 16, 2017 14:00
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alex314 posted:Oh noes, those dastardly Poles which attacked us,and we had to defend by taking the territories and never doing the vote afterwards. The Poles refused to have a vote, you idiot, Czechoslovakia was the country that called for it happening. Warbadger posted:They wanted to occupy Poland with a million troops placed in strategic locatiins throughout the country "just in case" Germany invaded. At a time they were pretty antagonistic to Poland. Poland was not stupid to turn this down. They didn't need to "work something out" with the Western powers to oppose Germany - it's a thing they already did by existing next to Poland right up until they decided they'd get part of europe by joining up with the (at the time winning) Axis. If they'd met the Germans in the middle of Poland with artillery rather than parades and ammunition shipments the war would have been over very quickly. Stalin didn't want Russia to become the sacrificial lamb of Europe once again, after it was stabbed in the back in WWI. He would rather see Germans and the French slaughter each other, not have Russia used to blunt the German army and enable a Western victory while Russia was plunged into another civil war. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 14:01
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steinrokkan posted:Stalin didn't want Russia to become the sacrificial lamb of Europe once again, after it was stabbed in the back in WWI. He would rather see Germans and the French slaughter each other. Poland had to be defeated prior to Russia being a sacrificial lamb w/r/t anyone in Western Europe, including Germany. Helping that happen and removing the existing buffer between the Soviet Union and Germany while abandoning the defenses at the Russian border did not align with that goal. Making wholly unreasonable demands to occupy a major allied country prior to hostilities kicking off was not a great way to oppose Nazi Germany or garner support. Nor was providing assistance in gobbling up Europe while seeking entrance to the Axis. It was a great way to opportunistically occupy Eastern Europe, though! Warbadger fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 14:12
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steinrokkan posted:The Poles refused to have a vote, you idiot, Czechoslovakia was the country that called for it happening. That's not what I remember from history and what Wikipedia claims. Czechoslovakia was probably the least poo poo of the countries involved, but it was a blatant opportunistic landgrab. No idea why you need to add some fake reasoning to it, every country did it. Same way Klaipeda ended in Lithuania.
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Sep 16, 2017 14:19
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steinrokkan posted:TBF, Poland was tied to France, which rejected aiding Czechoslovakia first. Also in previous attempts to form an eastern counterpart to the Locarno pact, Russia only ever agreed to mobilize against Germany in the case of an unanimous agreement between France, the USSR and their junior partners, so the question remains if the USSR would have actually decided to fight in 1938 if they had failed to convince France to join them. In any case, the fact that both Churchill and the Soviets are in agreement on the issue speaks to the truthfulness of the statement. Churchill posted:"over a question so minor as Teschen, they [the Poles] sundered themselves from all those friends in France, Britain and the United States who had lifted them once again to a national, coherent life, and whom they were soon to need to sorely. ... It is a mystery and tragedy of European history that a people capable of every heroic virtue ... as individuals, should repeatedly show such inveterate faults in almost every aspect of their governmental life." Molotov posted:"Hitler's jackals" Warbadger posted:Germany had to rearm prior to Poland being a sacrificial lamb w/r/t anyone in Western Europe, including Germany. Helping that happen by letting Germany grab a ton of military equipment in Czechoslovakia and undermining the anti-German alliance did not align with that goal.
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Sep 16, 2017 15:28
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Military junta ruling Poland during that time was so utterly terrible with their strategic decision it warrants a nice post. Highlight would be trying to take Liberia.
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Sep 16, 2017 16:03
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Eastern Europe: Why fight Russia when we can fight each other?
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Sep 16, 2017 16:27
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No slapfight like slavfight
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Sep 16, 2017 16:31
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Warbadger posted:They invaded and occupied both parties involved in this case. Poland twice in a row. Of course, to make things even more complicated, part of "Poland" were really the (multi-ethnic) lands of West Ukraine.
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Sep 16, 2017 16:45
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2017 hot take: Stalin did nothing wrong.
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Sep 16, 2017 16:49
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Warbadger posted:Poland had to be defeated prior to Russia being a sacrificial lamb w/r/t anyone in Western Europe, including Germany. Helping that happen and removing the existing buffer between the Soviet Union and Germany while abandoning the defenses at the Russian border did not align with that goal. Well, what I said pretty much means that Stalin wasn't interested in opposing Germany, he was interested in using it as part of his geopolitical scheming? I didn't mean to imply he was an unfairly wronged guy forced to defend himself by attacking Poland, he was trying to nudge Europe towards a war more beneficial for his goals than would happen otherwise. He gave up on trying to form an alliance that would actually proactively oppose Germany around '36. Which is why his offers to Czechoslovakia in 1938 rang hollow, he knew the exact same plans had been rejected several years prior, and was just covering his rear end. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 17:00
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