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The Bee posted:With this being the reason why blast weapons kinda suck in this edition. 66% x 3.5 is no different than 3.5 × 66%.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:18
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Corrode posted:66% x 3.5 is no different than 3.5 × 66%. But you can use a single command point to reroll your to-hit and end up with d6 hits, or you can reroll the number of shots on a successful hit. Either way it's more impactful than reroll in how many shots (which still need to hit) or the hit die on one of those shots.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:26
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Liquid Communism posted:Shocking news, noted critic Goose Willis does not know wot of the basic game mechanics. the game cannot fail it can only be failed
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Sep 16, 2017 19:29
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It also drastically cuts down on dice bloat, and makes it more in line with how flamers work compared to how other former template weapons work. It also feels a bit more intuitive to me, at least (roll hit to see where you throw the grenade, roll the dice to see how the shrapnel explodes.)
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Sep 16, 2017 19:29
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thanks for all the aberrant advice hams. i think ill sideline them for now and give metamorphs a try for some variety.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:30
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Booley posted:But you can use a single command point to reroll your to-hit and end up with d6 hits, or you can reroll the number of shots on a successful hit. Either way it's more impactful than reroll in how many shots (which still need to hit) or the hit die on one of those shots. Also speeds the game up overall. Do you know how annoying it is to watch someone reroll 1s with 4d6 wyvern shots, rather than for 4 shots that each do d6 hits?
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Sep 16, 2017 19:31
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chutche2 posted:Also speeds the game up overall. Do you know how annoying it is to watch someone reroll 1s with 4d6 wyvern shots, rather than for 4 shots that each do d6 hits? I've done worse. Reroll 1s on 36+6d6 aggressor shots and another 5d6 from a repulsor.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:34
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Booley posted:I've done worse. Reroll 1s on 36+6d6 aggressor shots and another 5d6 from a repulsor. This but all misses and reroll 1s to wound.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:35
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You hate me because you fear me
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Sep 16, 2017 19:44
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The combination of 40k being heavily reroll based, full of bucket-of-dice scenarios for both horde armies and elite forces, having rather passive turns for the player not in the hotseat, and still insisting on having a 3-step (4 step in cases of Feel No Pains, and now in some cases even friggin 5 steps) program for determining wounding is probably one of the reasons why the game breeds so much salt, come to think of it. Imagine spending your turn in a game you're already losing watching your opponent slowly pluck the 1s out of his Aggressors, one by one due to how many dice are being flung at once, to see if he's decimating your entire unit or only half of it. Then repeat the same thing for wounding, because he has both a Captain and a Lieutenant stapled to their gravis-clad asses. All the while, you're doing nothing except waiting for a chance to roll and see if you can maybe salvage a few of your guys. I think automation would drastically cut down on the length of your average 40k turn. I'm imagining an app where you plug in your To Hit, Strength, and rend values, alongside any rerolls available and your opponent's Toughness and Save values, and then it rolls dice while optionally playing a few canned battle noises to keep the game-feel visceral. (And I know they currently have an officially licensed app, but I don't know if it properly updated to 8th, nor do I know if it automates the entire roll process instead of making you throw the dice for each new reroll or step of the roll process). The Bee fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 19:45
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40k minis with some kind of electronic bases that tracks their position in a computer system so you don't have to roll dice at all and just like tap units and then it projects how many died or something would be mega rad. The future of tabletop. But not really practical yet. I agree though. I've been thinking similar things about MOBA games, the ways games are designed can kinda make them inherently more salty or toxic. How invested you get, how long the matches are, how many opportunities you have to turn-around the momentum so its not just a slow slog into certain death once you've lost the advantage, things like that really matter.
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Sep 16, 2017 19:55
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A couple of games have tried that (Ex Illis and Golem Arcana). It's a gimmick with no future at the moment. Personally I like wargames precisely because it's physical and not electronic.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:07
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With how much faffing on people do with digital rulebooks already, I'm happy not loving around with any more AR/automation poo poo in my plastic spacemans games right now.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:10
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Corrode posted:A couple of games have tried that (Ex Illis and Golem Arcana). It's a gimmick with no future at the moment. Personally I like wargames precisely because it's physical and not electronic. I know, that's why the tech has to be better, that's my point. It has to be really slick and unobtrusive which right now it can't be. My point was it would still all be physical it would just automate parts of the physical experience. You'd move your units on a table and then simply point at this guy and then point at the guy you're attacking and it'd project a bunch of lasers and explosions onto the battlefield with an overhead projector and then say "4 marines die" so you can quickly just scoop the marines and move on to the next attack order. It'd require cheap projectors and image recognition and stuff so that you wouldn't have to touch a screen or anything.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:11
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Duel Disks, but for Warhams.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:12
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The problem with an app is spending more time putting in the specs than you would rolling dice. Although you could have your opponent do it.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:25
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A fully automated 40k would be amazing like that, but I agree it isn't practical without taking the game fully online. And taking the game fully online is good for everything but mini sales, which means GW would never go for it. Maybe if they made it so you needed to "register" purchased models to use them online, but that would kill the resale market and likely end up way less practical than it's worth. Finding a level between "horribly consumer unfriendly" and "something GW would actually go for" is a surprisingly difficult process, especially when miniature wargaming is a super niche hobby that, value wise, would be laughed out of any other business. "You sell your customers unpainted, unassembled figures at a massive markup, oftentimes with individual characters going for 35 dollars despite being a slightly different flavor of Power Armored Strong Man. And then they can't even use these without buying several also-expensive books, unless they're willing to use a comparatively substandard amount of rule options. And then you sell them the paint and assembly tools, also at a large markup, with a paint system designed to encourage using as many different shades of these expensive paints as possible." I think analyzing the aspects of 40k that lead to inherent toxicity value, both in the producer vs. consumer and in the player vs. player aspect, can be really interesting. I myself have a few ideas. No Gaming is better than Bad Gaming - 40k isn't just an entirely in-person activity. It's an in-person activity where you gotta lug cases of space barbies around, bring your army books with you, and need access to ample table space. If you want to play video games, you can bail on an improperly fitting match so easily that ragequitting is considered a huge problem. If you want to play tabletop games, you need to find an in-person meeting area. If you want to play 40k, your list of potential play spaces drastically drops down to peoples' houses and local gaming spots. This means if you want to play 40k you have a hilariously poor ability of picking your crowd, because the local That Guy might be one of your only four options that actually plays. Some people who really want to play 40k just swallow it down and deal with it, and that toxicity can jump from player to player in the process. Losing the game at the store counter - 40k has a problem with losing at listbuilding. If you bring a tank company to deal with a bunch of Primaris, the Primaris player is going to be praying that he can get his Power Fist captain in range and that his Plasmas won't overheat and mulch his entire squad turn 1. Otherwise, he's a sitting duck. However, the problem isn't losing at listbuilding. It's a problem of losing at list purchase. Sometimes a model you really like just isn't great. Sometimes it is a good model, but is a poor fit for the armies you'll be facing at your game store. Sometimes somebody brings a Knight, and you realize you either counter it really well or get stomped due to all of your opponent's eggs being put in a really big, stompy basket. You're going to lose, and lose, and lose, and keep losing until you eventually shell out for a Devastator squad or something. Basically having to pay to win due to not being able to easily shake up your list is unfortunately just a reality of playing a physical game with a huge, diverse model list, but it also doesn't feel good when you realize there's little you can do. Not helping matters is that, for reasons both practical and petty, there's a degree of gatekeeping in what people can and can't use. Some of this is understandable yet also kind of upsetting. Maybe you just really love Magnus, both as a model and as a piece of your army, and nobody wants to play with you when he's around because they fear you being That Guy. Maybe their lists just can't handle it and it's the best move for everyone, but it's still disheartening. You basically spent $130 bucks on a fancy piece of plastic nobody wants you to actually use. On the other hand, there are people who push the painting element of the hobby so hard that they houserule that unpainted models should take double damage or poo poo like that. For someone who really just wants to play the game, or someone who doesn't have the time and money to paint, or someone who wants to try the game first before committing super hard, this is basically saying "get out, we don't want you here until you put in exactly as much hard work as we did." Some people probably make rules like that to encourage painting, but I think there are others who relish in the idea of bullying others out of their hobby. More Space Marine releases - At this point in time, 40k has 29 factions available. 7 of these are Space Marines, and one of these is the Ultramarines who don't even have their own rules. They get about 2 codexes per edition, not even counting non-codex factions, and are in the middle of a huge line push / renovation with the Primaris that I doubt is over yet. Meanwhile, some other factions have maybe a handful of models total. Genestealer Cults have 12 models/model groups per sale, and 4 of those are headswapped Guardsmen models. Custodes and Sisters of Silence each have like 4 models, including a total lack of HQs. Harlequins have 8 models, only 1 of which is a basic troop for your troop, and their only HQ is tied to the Ynnari package you may not want. Thousand Sons have about 6 unique units counting a Primarch, whereas Death Guard have that many in a single starter box and at least another 6 to come. At the same time, the models I'm describing are at least plastic. Who can even count how many Finecast models are still kicking around? It's understandable that GW can't show love to every single faction at once, but the resentment this breeds between popular factions (Space Marines, Tau) and less-popular ones is another toxic factor. Of course you lost. Space Marine bias. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The problem with an app is spending more time putting in the specs than you would rolling dice. Tie it to the Warscroll app, too. Keep a record of all units, and then just tap those units as part of you and your opponent's armies. You don't need to input a ton of values when you can just quickly tap the units, weapons, and powers at play. Attacker: Intercessor Squad (10) Weapon: Bolt Rifle (+1 to armor penetration) Support Unit: Primaris Captain (reroll 1 to hit) Modifiers: The Horror power (-1 to hit) Defender: Termagants (30) Maybe make it so you can easily connect and share lists. That way instead of having to write in your opponent's whole list, you can just share codes and quickly load up both side's forces. The Bee fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Sep 16, 2017 |
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Sep 16, 2017 20:28
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The Bee posted:Tie it to the Warscroll app, too. Keep a record of all units, and then just tap those units as part of you and your opponent's armies. You don't need to input a ton of values when you can just quickly tap the units, weapons, and powers at play. I know this is pure fantasy by this point, but imagine how cool that could be with augmented reality. Charge into combat and you actually see your dudes running in and fighting.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:38
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goose willis posted:You hate me because you fear me 
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Sep 16, 2017 20:42
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I'm only accepting a VR/AR version of 40k if it allows me to do stupid Yu-Gi-Oh poo poo like blow up the moon or order my Onagers to blow up scenery and cause rubble to crush some Orks.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:42
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You are a traitor to all waterfowl
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Sep 16, 2017 20:47
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:I know this is pure fantasy by this point, but imagine how cool that could be with augmented reality. Charge into combat and you actually see your dudes running in and fighting. I've always been under the impression that, even if just using canned Total War or Dawn of War style animations, Duel Disks being real would be the best thing imaginable for most games.
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Sep 16, 2017 20:55
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So Nids should be the next book? Previews this week and preorders on the weekend?
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Sep 16, 2017 21:01
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The Bee posted:I've always been under the impression that, even if just using canned Total War or Dawn of War style animations, Duel Disks being real would be the best thing imaginable for most games. How long until china provides us bootlegs
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Sep 16, 2017 21:04
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TKIY posted:So Nids should be the next book? Previews this week and preorders on the weekend? No reason it's Nids instead of Eldar or Guard. Those three will all be out by the end of October though (or was it mid-November?)
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Sep 16, 2017 21:19
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I thought it was confirmed it would be DG, AdMech and Bugs for the next three?
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Sep 16, 2017 21:24
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The only thing confirmed is that bugs, eldar, and guard are out by november. Nothing's been said about the order they're going to be released in.
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Sep 16, 2017 21:29
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IIRC at Nova they announced it Nids, IG, Eldar in that order. Not sure if that's the actual order. I'd guess that there'll be a few weeks of just DG stuff before the next book.
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Sep 16, 2017 22:20
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Admech is next week Also Cawl is not a lot cheaper than the Triumvirate of the imperium box
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Sep 16, 2017 22:23
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The problem with an app is spending more time putting in the specs than you would rolling dice. The 40k vassal module has solved this problem. You only need to enter values and select some tickyboxes and it does all the hard work. You can do it as you're explaining whats happening to the opponent. "I have Xd6 shots with strength Y against toughness Z rerolling 1s to hit and wound" same for the saves. Not at all difficult.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:24
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MasterSlowPoke posted:IIRC at Nova they announced it Nids, IG, Eldar in that order. Not sure if that's the actual order. I'd guess that there'll be a few weeks of just DG stuff before the next book. Did you weather Irma fairly well?
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Sep 16, 2017 23:43
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I played my first 8th lastnight, 2v2 500pts each. My Blood Angels and my partners Primaris Wolves vs Tau and Necrons. Sent my Librarian Dreadnought against the Necron Overlord. I could have done it better. Took two combats but I failed my 4++ Psyic Power and got crumpled. Didn't even blow up. Also left my best dice at home. 
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Sep 17, 2017 00:04
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Pendent posted:I really like how this turned out. Her head in general looks great- the flesh tone, the glow around the eyes and the edge highlighting on the hair all look incredible. Good catch. Duncan's tutorials leave out a few details, I usually follow a different route for white wings, which I used on the actual wings but not the armor detail, it involves a line shade of dawnstone.
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Sep 17, 2017 00:51
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Uroboros posted:Good catch. Duncan's tutorials leave out a few details, I usually follow a different route for white wings, which I used on the actual wings but not the armor detail, it involves a line shade of dawnstone. That's interesting and would probably be better than the wash for white. What are you using for the base- Ulthuan Grey?
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Sep 17, 2017 00:59
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chutche2 posted:The only thing confirmed is that bugs, eldar, and guard are out by november. Nothing's been said about the order they're going to be released in. Did they mention if GSC will be rolled into Nids? I'm guessing not because more money.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:02
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Why on earth would they be?
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Sep 17, 2017 02:27
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I played a game yesterday where a squad of my guardsmen met the business end of a Repulsor. Even being in cover there's nothing they could have done to avoid the hilarious amount of firepower that thing has.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:30
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If anything, I think we're going to get more Imperial Guard units auto-rolled in to the Cult. It's weird to me that some you can take as is, but some have to be a separate allied detachment.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:40
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Got to play in the fate of konor last day tournament. Might post later but two things. gently caress Ynnari an the auto hit guns Jesus Christ. gently caress eldrad an his ghost helm. 3rd game played against aworld eaters army. We got 24 inch board edge deployment. We got a Twist card that gave all models +1 attacks. It was glorious. Just pure enjoyment.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:47
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Can somebody explain how the Knights work in the new mechanicum book? It sounds to me like these are the rules for Mechanicus aligned Knight houses, but there's no mention of the imperial aligned houses at all. Is this the book that everybody with a knight will need to buy or will there be another one coming up?
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Sep 17, 2017 04:32
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