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open24hours posted:I don't disagree with this, but I do struggle to see how it's relevant. Conservatism adapts to its environment like any other political movement. In the 1980s and 90s the decriminalisation of gay sex was the focus of many activists, and as a fundamentally reactionary ideology conservatives responded by arguing that it shouldn't be. Now that same sex marriage is the focus they are responding to that, and they will respond to whatever becomes the new focus after SSM becomes law. That they move on to complain about new things isn't something to bemoan, it's a sign of progress. it's relevant because someone posted this AgentF posted:I can easily see acceptance of gay marriage leading to acceptance of other progressive causes one we have gay marriage and people can see that society hasn't collapsed. please at least try and follow the flow of conversation
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Sep 17, 2017 05:37
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I remember after the Irish referendum on SSM, Bolt conceded that SSM is an inevitability and asked that gays now "join us with love" by turning to anti-SSM conservatives for advice on marriage, since, based on some horseshit stats he quoted, gays are incapable of marriage or raising children. It was hosed up. He has a lesbian sister IIRC.
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Sep 17, 2017 06:04
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Bolt isn't religious either remember. He just cares about the Culture War.
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Sep 17, 2017 06:08
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Bolt isn't religious either remember. He just cares about making money.
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Sep 17, 2017 06:52
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Yeah he's a huckster in every respect, except when his actual hatred of non-whites and fascist love bleeds through his writing.
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Sep 17, 2017 07:05
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Can any sydgoons confirm that vote no was sky written?
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Sep 17, 2017 07:17
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Zenithe posted:Can any sydgoons confirm that vote no was sky written? https://twitter.com/LucyXIV/status/909291446917849088
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Sep 17, 2017 07:19
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https://twitter.com/millieu_milk/status/909241675045679104 one ton? idgi
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Sep 17, 2017 07:29
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Don Dongington posted:Okay since Trump, but we all know there were way more factors in play there than a mystery cohort of quiet conservatives. Weren't the predictions for Trump pretty drat bang on for the ones that properly accounted for the College's weirdnesses?
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Sep 17, 2017 07:35
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Every time no people complain about how they're being 'told' to vote yes, just quote those pictures.
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Sep 17, 2017 07:37
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Zenithe posted:Can any sydgoons confirm that vote no was sky written? https://twitter.com/JC_my_security/status/909240092274843649 life and death. thank goodness the abc is here to report on stupid tweets of angry fuckwits with 44 followers
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Sep 17, 2017 07:44
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My first car was a stick
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 Our Lady Star of the Sea Church/Primary School, Miranda, Sutherland Shire, Sydney. The school motto is "Our love is not just words, but something real and active". (I took this yesterday, then last night when I was browsing News.com it looks like someone else took a similar picture earlier that day - 5th one down.
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Sep 17, 2017 07:50
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Sep 17, 2017 08:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8INW18E-Aw
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Sep 17, 2017 08:01
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Box of Bunnies posted:Probably not the case for those people but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a contingent of bi and trans people voting no in protest against the bi erasure and bi/transphobia within the larger queer community I doubt it, they're affected too much by the issue and generally aren't spiteful enough
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Sep 17, 2017 08:01
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Oh boy, that's gunna be fun to walk past
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Sep 17, 2017 08:02
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gently caress me, the one Monday I have an off campus lecture
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Sep 17, 2017 08:06
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rumble in the bunghole posted:I doubt it, they're affected too much by the issue and generally aren't spiteful enough
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Sep 17, 2017 08:10
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Ugh this on going shitshow.
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Sep 17, 2017 08:17
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Don't doxx Bonelord.
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Sep 17, 2017 08:19
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MikeJF posted:Weren't the predictions for Trump pretty drat bang on for the ones that properly accounted for the College's weirdnesses? I think like Brexit they were within the margin of error but not really what people thought would happen. We don't really get a significant Shy Tory contingent here, but a postal survey on a specific issue in a country used to compulsory voting is all new territory.
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Sep 17, 2017 08:22
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CrazyTolradi posted:I know of at least a couple of people who are boycotting the survey over these issues, so honestly, yeah I'd bet you anything there's some voting no because of this. That seems pretty pathetic to be honest. What do they hope to achieve from doing that?
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Sep 17, 2017 08:31
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gay picnic defence posted:That seems pretty pathetic to be honest. What do they hope to achieve from doing that? Personally, I don't agree with taking that stance and not voting yes myself, but I understand their frustration.
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Sep 17, 2017 08:34
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MikeJF posted:Weren't the predictions for Trump pretty drat bang on for the ones that properly accounted for the College's weirdnesses? iirc 538 had the critical states anywhere between 30-50% Trump. So it was definitely the least likely outcome but it wasn't unforeseen.
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Sep 17, 2017 08:42
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First person arrested for wearing a mask today in Melbourne. Literally that's the entirety of the offence. They were standing silently at the rally and cops dragged them out.
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Sep 17, 2017 09:00
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bandaid.friend posted:https://twitter.com/JC_my_security/status/909240092274843649 Something I've been finding genuinely interesting about the 'no' campaign is just how their tactics are manifesting. They want to run a grassroots, ground-level, interaction and public presence campaign (largely because they work, but also because they want to look like the cool young people that tend to be the core of those campaigns), but the only advantage they possibly have in a campaign like that is the one thing they want to look like they don't have--money. Which is leading to an interesting display of things. -Their placards don't seem to turn up very often, and when they do they're on signs for places like private schools; big, vested institutions. I'd wager they probably went up overnight, or some other time nobody was watching. -Skywriting is basically the perfect choice of public stunt for them, because while it will get seen by a lot of people and presumably give them a lot of eyes, only two people actually have to do anything (and one of those two got paid for it). Unfortunately for them, it isn't exactly high-impact. -Their public appearances as a campaign, like that line of people and the UQ event, are clearly stacking the deck. It's dangerous for them to actually go out and do public one-to-ones, or at least probably feels like it to them, so they instead only appear in numbers or environments that make it hard to confront them. -Similarly, note that in that line every single person has a placard, and they're all the same placard. That sounds almost normal at first, since it's a specific and new campaign, but compare it to other groups in public events, both recently-emerged (Stop Adani's a good example) and longstanding, and you'll see not everybody's displaying something, you'll see homemade or modified signs, generally just proof of imperfections and people from different walks of life. These guys either haven't thought about that or don't know how to do it, so their whole movement is too uniform and well-funded to be believable as grassroots. They're coming from an interesting direction, but they're god-awful at it.
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Sep 17, 2017 09:11
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We had some of those clever "It's ok to vote no" signs at the Adelaide rally, but then we also had a contingent of religious crazies with signs about facing judgement. I can only imagine that undecided voters would be weirded out by that sort of message. That opposing SSM seems to be for religious crazies and not really for normal people to be doing.
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Sep 17, 2017 09:28
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CrazyTolradi posted:As for outcomes, I'm not entirely sure, the main point of contention I've heard from them is that the gay community are ignoring trans/non binary people and letting the right attack them, so gently caress them both. How are the gay community ignoring them? Is there really anything the gay community can do to stop the right from attacking them?
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Sep 17, 2017 09:59
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AgentF posted:We had some of those clever "It's ok to vote no" signs at the Adelaide rally, but then we also had a contingent of religious crazies with signs about facing judgement. I can only imagine that undecided voters would be weirded out by that sort of message. That opposing SSM seems to be for religious crazies and not really for normal people to be doing. They are clever, aren't they? I heard about anti-abortion activists calling themselves 'pro-life' because it's a more likable position than 'anti'. I can see how this slogan's achieving the same thing, turning a negative phrase into something positive They can still gently caress right off, though http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-17/ssm-tony-abbott-sister-christine-forster-for-yes-vote/8954790 quote:Former prime minister Tony Abbott's sister Christine Forster has accused same-sex marriage opponents of fearmongering, as a string of high-profile Yes campaigners staged rallies across the country to urge supporters to remember to return their survey forms.
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Sep 17, 2017 10:00
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AgentF posted:We had some of those clever "It's ok to vote no" signs at the Adelaide rally, but then we also had a contingent of religious crazies with signs about facing judgement. I can only imagine that undecided voters would be weirded out by that sort of message. That opposing SSM seems to be for religious crazies and not really for normal people to be doing. Yeah, the other interesting thing is that driving slogan of 'it's OK to vote no'. Attempting to imply a silent majority/facilitating the Shy Tory Factor. I'd be interested to know where exactly it came from, because it's weirdly kinda passive from a subset of people that's normally inclined towards far more assertive and angry statements. I can't decide if they either genuinely believe that angle is their best shot, or if they're just following the tactics of more progressive movements (particularly LGBTIQ-focused movements) who tend to go for the more feelgood-sounding messages. And if it's the latter, is it because they're continuing to push the idea of the left being 'unreasonable and disrespectful' and want to look like the sane and rational ones in the debate? Or is it them totally conceding the tone-off to the marriage equality movement and having to follow their lead? EDIT: gay picnic defence posted:How are the gay community ignoring them? Is there really anything the gay community can do to stop the right from attacking them? This is a bit of a hard one, because a huge argument of the 'no' campaign is built on transphobia, constructing lies about trans people and what happens if we accept them. It's easy to rebut stuff like 'if gays can get married then they'll force my son to wear a dress' through essentially 'um, no', and indeed since those assertions are pretty much straight-out lies it can feel very effective, but it can really shut out trans people if you're not careful. For what it's worth I think the Greens are doing a great job on this, by having Janet Rice's relationship be sort of a central focus and as such being very trans-positive. But it's an easy hole to fall into if you're not careful, even if you are very friendly to trans people. Hell, I feel like I've fumbled it on a few occasions, and I am trans. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 10:02
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Its not ok to be a brony.
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Sep 17, 2017 10:26
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A brony and a Queenslander? How unfortunate.
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Sep 17, 2017 11:03
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I can't figure out if that poster is pro or anti-horse loving.
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Sep 17, 2017 11:06
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:I can't figure out if that poster is pro or anti-horse loving. When in doubt
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Sep 17, 2017 11:16
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Pretty sure the "It's ok to say no" came from Cory Bernardi as part of his attempt to protray the Australian Conservatives as representing the "silent majority".
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Sep 17, 2017 11:24
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Cleretic posted:They're coming from an interesting direction, but they're god-awful at it. It's call astroturfing in the USA, and that sums it all up. They know they can't go all out with the religious hatred because that at best weirds most people out, so rambling lies and passive-aggressive cry-bullying is all they have. I'd say it's one of the dying gasps of Jesus freaks as an organised force; they're old fucks with money trying to appeal to people's ignorance, fear and worst impulses, and too afraid to actually confront people because they know they'll lose and look like monsters.
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Sep 17, 2017 12:37
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Cleretic posted:For what it's worth I think the Greens are doing a great job on this, by having Janet Rice's relationship be sort of a central focus and as such being very trans-positive. But it's an easy hole to fall into if you're not careful, even if you are very friendly to trans people. Hell, I feel like I've fumbled it on a few occasions, and I am trans.
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Sep 17, 2017 13:03
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Senor Tron posted:Pretty sure the "It's ok to say no" came from Cory Bernardi as part of his attempt to protray the Australian Conservatives as representing the "silent majority". It sounds like the counterpart of "It gets better", but while that's a reach out to gay people suffering under homophobia, "it's okay to say no" sounds like a reach out to bigots suffering anti-bigotry. They've retracted to a level of perceived victimization. They at least know they've lost the high ground. snoremac fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 13:30
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No "it's ok to say no" is extremely clever because it appeals to people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality but are guilted out of voting no. They don't believe in gay marriage but probably wouldn't say it to family or co-workers and can see the happiness and love in the pro-SSM messages and wonder if being opposed to SSM might be the wrong thing to do. The positive message of "it's ok to say no" makes them feel comforted about the way that they feel. "Yeah, if everyone's supposed to be tolerated then I should be tolerated for my views too". It focuses on the person rather than the issue because the no campaign is negative about the issue whereas you can be positive about the potential no-voter. It assuages their guilt and reassures them that they aren't doing anything wrong. Wonder if all this poo poo will be addressed on Gruen.
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Sep 17, 2017 14:39
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"It's okay to say no" is co-opting the language people are told to use to stand up to bullying and peer pressure.
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Sep 17, 2017 15:05
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