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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Like Leto's Joker, Alexander Luthor enjoys humiliating people. With the extended edition (I think?) ending reveal that Batman's having Luthor sent to Arkham, my first thought was of course that's going to backfire, Lex might get along great there.
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Sep 18, 2017 06:21
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I actually kinda wish we got a bit more Henry Cavill as 18-year-old Clark in Man of Steel. We really only get the one scene in the car, and once the tornado shows up he kinda matures a little bit, but he really, really nails the snotty "i'm 18 and I know everything" bullshit. Him talking with his dad about not wanting to farm felt very real, especially bringing up the fact that his dad isn't really his dad. It's all vocal too, because they don't do a whole lot to make him look younger, but his voice has a deepness and maturity in the present-day scenes that's absent during that one scene. it's definitely too late for that now, obviously. But it just further leads me to believe that Henry Cavill is really underrated as an actor. He's not given a lot of flashy scenes, and his one big "actorly moment" is the primal screen post-neck-snapping, but there's a conflictedness just under the surface and he doesn't overplay it, especially when he has to play the part of World Savior Superman instead of just Clark. god man of steel is so loving good. I feel like I grow to love it a little more each time I watch it.
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Sep 18, 2017 08:12
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DC Murderverse posted:I actually kinda wish we got a bit more Henry Cavill as 18-year-old Clark in Man of Steel. We really only get the one scene in the car, and once the tornado shows up he kinda matures a little bit, but he really, really nails the snotty "i'm 18 and I know everything" bullshit. Him talking with his dad about not wanting to farm felt very real, especially bringing up the fact that his dad isn't really his dad. It's all vocal too, because they don't do a whole lot to make him look younger, but his voice has a deepness and maturity in the present-day scenes that's absent during that one scene. He actually plays Clark as several quite distinct characters through the film, often differentiated by little more than small changes in inflection and body posture. There's even a distinct difference between 'wanderer Clark' and 'rescuer Clark' Cavill's good, and Man of Steel is very good. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 08:18
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Nah MoS wasn't good. The character progression of Clark didn't make much sense: a boy who is made to hide his true nature, a son who watches on, traumatised, as his father dies. A high school runaway drifter for 12 years, finds his true father and all of a sudden is like 'the s on my world stands for hope'. Then gets a job as a journalist? In today's market he would need at least some undergrad to get a spot there, his resume up to that point would have been awful, and his high school writing skills would be calcified. But then why would he even bother? Clark Kent has been dead since his father died. He doesn't need to hide an identity, it's a lovely excuse to gather intelligence which could be done anyway using super senses and maybe twitter or something. It's like Prometheus, it's been 'not my superman/alien' up until that point, then it tries to be my superman with some half assed attempt to shoehorn in some classic Superman rubbish that isn't justified by the story.
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Sep 18, 2017 13:50
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Goffer posted:Nah MoS wasn't good. The character progression of Clark didn't make much sense: a boy who is made to hide his true nature, a son who watches on, traumatised, as his father dies. A high school runaway drifter for 12 years, finds his true father and all of a sudden is like 'the s on my world stands for hope'. Then gets a job as a journalist? In today's market he would need at least some undergrad to get a spot there, his resume up to that point would have been awful, and his high school writing skills would be calcified. Clark Kent isn't a cover story for Superman.
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Sep 18, 2017 14:27
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Lobok posted:Clark Kent isn't a cover story for Superman. There was a great scene in a recent comic about the first time that Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman met. Wonder Woman got them all to hold her golden lasso and reveal their true names:  
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Sep 18, 2017 14:43
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Christ, that is some astoundingly awful art.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:09
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Saying your real name is Batman is pretty sad and horrifying. Not cool at all, dude needs help he's far gone.
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Sep 18, 2017 15:11
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Gatts posted:dude needs help he's far gone. You didn't realise that until that now???? 
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Sep 18, 2017 15:16
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:You didn't realise that until that now???? I felt like a moron when I realized Batman saying "Superman was a beacon and symbol of hope" is a really big deal in BvS/JL because he himself is a symbol of fear and terror. Him coming to terms with that really finalized his arc in BvS. Do Batman's tactics change? Will he still work as a demon bat crawling on ceilings and attacking from the shadows? Or is he leaving that aspect behind?
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Sep 18, 2017 16:07
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Chris Mckay talks about his vision for Nightwing to Collider How many more people need to die making superhero movies?
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Sep 18, 2017 16:10
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Shortly after leaving the cemetery he falls into a spider hole. Realizing Spider starts with S like his hero Superman, he resolved that he must become a spider.
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Sep 18, 2017 16:10
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Violator posted:Do Batman's tactics change? Will he still work as a demon bat crawling on ceilings and attacking from the shadows? Or is he leaving that aspect behind? He declined to brand Lex Luthor, so he has softened up a little
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Sep 18, 2017 16:12
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Shortly after leaving the cemetery he falls into a spider hole. Realizing Spider starts with S like his hero Superman, he resolved that he must become a spider. Come into my parlor, said the spider to the clown
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Sep 18, 2017 16:22
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Gatts posted:Saying your real name is Batman is pretty sad and horrifying. Not cool at all, dude needs help he's far gone. I like at the end of Sandman where there's a single panel cameo of Superman and Batman at Dream's wake in the Dreaming, and since it's their dream selves, they both show off what they think of themselves as. Superman is just Clark, while Batman is this gross bat-hybrid monster.
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Sep 18, 2017 16:35
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Gatts posted:Saying your real name is Batman is pretty sad and horrifying. Not cool at all, dude needs help he's far gone. I also gotta call bullshit to an extent. I get the whole "Batman is the true persona and the 'Bruce Wayne' he shows everyone is just a mask" angle but for someone who is obsessed with his dead parents and their legacy to not truly think of himself as a Wayne...doesn't seem correct to me. Chairman Capone posted:I like at the end of Sandman where there's a single panel cameo of Superman and Batman at Dream's wake in the Dreaming, and since it's their dream selves, they both show off what they think of themselves as. Superman is just Clark, while Batman is this gross bat-hybrid monster. This is a way cooler variation on that same theme. Also the Mark Waid JLA comic where everyone's two identities get split by some alien technology and Batman eventually becomes this literal faceless automaton literally going through the motions while Bruce Wayne becomes a rich dude filled with impotent rage.
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Sep 18, 2017 16:44
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:There was a great scene in a recent comic about the first time that Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman met. Wonder Woman got them all to hold her golden lasso and reveal their true names: What is with their noses
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Sep 18, 2017 16:46
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One of the only real problems I still have with BvS from a plot POV is the way Batman approaches Wonder Woman completely differently than Superman. He is hell bent on someone with these powers being wildly dangerous for our planet, going to elaborate lengths to ensure his destruction. While planning this, he discovers there is someone else with extraordinary powers, and he immediately starts trying to coax her out into the light to help him. Like, sure, he didn't know what she can do beyond "Live a really long time, I'm guessing fight since she was in WWI", but he states later he thought she was "with" Superman. So he had it in his head she may be the same kind of deal as Superman, but instead of wanting to kill her he wants her to embrace her powers or something? I'm, like, 99% sure those emails were sent before the "Martha!" turn, so it's not that he changed his mind in time. I'm posting here not to criticize the movie, but because I genuinely don't understand and am hoping someone does.
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Sep 18, 2017 16:55
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thrawn527 posted:One of the only real problems I still have with BvS from a plot POV is the way Batman approaches Wonder Woman completely differently than Superman. He is hell bent on someone with these powers being wildly dangerous for our planet, going to elaborate lengths to ensure his destruction. While planning this, he discovers there is someone else with extraordinary powers, and he immediately starts trying to coax her out into the light to help him. Like, sure, he didn't know what she can do beyond "Live a really long time, I'm guessing fight since she was in WWI", but he states later he thought she was "with" Superman. So he had it in his head she may be the same kind of deal as Superman, but instead of wanting to kill her he wants her to embrace her powers or something? I'm, like, 99% sure those emails were sent before the "Martha!" turn, so it's not that he changed his mind in time. I think it does a pretty good job of illustrating Bruce's relationship to trauma. I don't think it's a coincidence the film opens up with the death of his parents followed immediately by the death of his extended Wayne Enterprises family. Those are basically the two major events that define who he is: first the classic one that makes him into Batman as the fans know him and then a new one that informs who he is during the course of this movie. By contrast Wonder Woman is just a mystery for him to solve. Her appearance isn't tied to some traumatic event for him to obsess over, so his natural curiosity is what wins over in this case. It shows us a better side of Bruce and an alternate way his relationship with Superman could have started, if things hadn't started off so hosed up.
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Sep 18, 2017 17:06
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Goffer posted:Nah MoS wasn't good. The character progression of Clark didn't make much sense: a boy who is made to hide his true nature, a son who watches on, traumatised, as his father dies. A high school runaway drifter for 12 years, finds his true father and all of a sudden is like 'the s on my world stands for hope'. Then gets a job as a journalist? In today's market he would need at least some undergrad to get a spot there, his resume up to that point would have been awful, and his high school writing skills would be calcified. And Zod and his crew speak perfect English right after coming to Earth? And Superman mastered flying literally right after he learned he can?? How come his cape doesn't burn up in the atmosphere when Zod's cape burned up in a gas station explosion??? What's WITH THIS BULLSHIT?!?!
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Sep 18, 2017 17:14
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Guy A. Person posted:I think it does a pretty good job of illustrating Bruce's relationship to trauma. I don't think it's a coincidence the film opens up with the death of his parents followed immediately by the death of his extended Wayne Enterprises family. Those are basically the two major events that define who he is: first the classic one that makes him into Batman as the fans know him and then a new one that informs who he is during the course of this movie. So his reaction to WW is more who Bruce actually is, and his reaction to Superman is basically his broke brain overreaction, until hearing Martha's name makes him snap out of it, and he starts treating Superman the same way he's been treating WW? I can buy that, I think. I still think he's a little too open to her coming forward if the "I thought she was with you" line was legit.
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Sep 18, 2017 17:40
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Effectively, yeah. Wonder Woman is also some one he wants to have sex with, while Superman is some one he wants to gently caress. There is an important difference there. I think seeing that she has been around for so long and HASN'T committed wild atrocities like he thinks Superman has/will, also put points in her favor from Bruce. Bruce is not an unbiased man
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Sep 18, 2017 17:43
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thrawn527 posted:One of the only real problems I still have with BvS from a plot POV is the way Batman approaches Wonder Woman completely differently than Superman. He is hell bent on someone with these powers being wildly dangerous for our planet, going to elaborate lengths to ensure his destruction. While planning this, he discovers there is someone else with extraordinary powers, and he immediately starts trying to coax her out into the light to help him. Like, sure, he didn't know what she can do beyond "Live a really long time, I'm guessing fight since she was in WWI", but he states later he thought she was "with" Superman. So he had it in his head she may be the same kind of deal as Superman, but instead of wanting to kill her he wants her to embrace her powers or something? I'm, like, 99% sure those emails were sent before the "Martha!" turn, so it's not that he changed his mind in time. Superman didn't wear a sexy dress and flirt with him
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Sep 18, 2017 17:55
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Gatts posted:Saying your real name is Batman is pretty sad and horrifying. Not cool at all, dude needs help he's far gone. It has precedent. 'That's not what I call myself in my head.' Al Borland Corp. posted:Superman didn't wear a sexy dress and flirt with him Says you? Though I think the idea of Superman not only being apparently responsible for wrecking Metropolis but being an alien, part of a race of invaders that terrorised and nearly destroyed the world, rather influences his first impression with Batman, compared to Diana being a mysterious, beautiful stranger who's managed to fight in a war without leaving cities ruined. (Though with some further thinking, it was WW1, who'd notice?)
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Sep 18, 2017 18:01
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Guy A. Person posted:I think it does a pretty good job of illustrating Bruce's relationship to trauma. I don't think it's a coincidence the film opens up with the death of his parents followed immediately by the death of his extended Wayne Enterprises family. Not only that, but finding the little girl whose mother just got killed, the same age he was when his mother just got killed. Actually, since he clearly has mother issues, maybe he sees Diana as a replacement mom.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:05
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Ironically, Batman sees Superman much like the image Batman deliberately cultivates; an inhuman, unstoppable, unaccountable vigilante who dispenses justice only on his own terms and commands the loyalty of those who need order.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:20
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Inescapable Duck posted:Ironically, Batman sees Superman much like the image Batman deliberately cultivates; an inhuman, unstoppable, unaccountable vigilante who dispenses justice only on his own terms and commands the loyalty of those who need order. who in one day changed the world more than bats had ever changed gotham in over 20 years.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:22
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I really wanted to like MoS and there's plenty of bits I like, but experiencing that final fight was just an agonizingly long wall of noise and din for me. A very well done portrayal of the true horror of superhuman battle but not an enjoyable watching experience.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:41
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graham cracker posted:Have any BvS fans justified the jar of piss yet? TRUMP
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Sep 18, 2017 18:43
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I mean, Lex got dunked on by the lady with a piss metaphor, and he made sure the last thing she saw before she died was a metaphorical jar of piss. Cause he's a little poo poo. No justification needed.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:45
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Chairman Capone posted:I like at the end of Sandman where there's a single panel cameo of Superman and Batman at Dream's wake in the Dreaming, and since it's their dream selves, they both show off what they think of themselves as. Superman is just Clark, while Batman is this gross bat-hybrid monster. Batman's not a gross monster in that panel:  It's a cool idea though.
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Sep 18, 2017 19:54
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:You didn't realise that until that now???? Oh no I've been anti Bat since a kid in the 90s about his being too far gone and not a good example of a hero and praising Morrison for finally moving him forward to actually do something functional with Batman Inc.
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Sep 18, 2017 20:05
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I'm not sure starting a company to export justice is exactly the right step, but I never read that arc.
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Sep 18, 2017 20:07
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MacheteZombie posted:I'm not sure starting a company to export justice is exactly the right step, but I never read that arc. The point is that he's this broken arrested development child who lets mature adults run his company and do the charitable work his father started while he sits in his basement spending all those resources for him to dress up in pajamas and bring teenagers into his war to get killed while he sits at his computer in the basement of his parents house with cool action toys so he can go out and punch poors and mental patients in the face and get his wards killed...dude, take a step back. But yeah your point does stand. At least for once he has the right idea to take his resources and think beyond his issues but exporting his own brand of justice isn't right I mean in Batman Begins Ras says his father by being a doctor and a business man delayed the destruction of Gotham by turning things around economically though proper adult means and Bruce's solution is not to continue that but Batman? Come on.
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Sep 18, 2017 20:13
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BiggerBoat posted:Also to protect his identity, which didn't work out so well. The coolest depictions of DD are when they actually show him struggling with stuff his senses can't decipher, like a computer screen or a cell phone. Being able to read ink on a printed page from the "impression" is bullshit because offset printing plates don't leave an impression and there's no "raised ink" either. 
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Sep 18, 2017 20:20
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thrawn527 posted:So his reaction to WW is more who Bruce actually is, and his reaction to Superman is basically his broke brain overreaction, until hearing Martha's name makes him snap out of it, and he starts treating Superman the same way he's been treating WW? I can buy that, I think. I still think he's a little too open to her coming forward if the "I thought she was with you" line was legit. I might be misremembering but I thought that line came after he reconciled with Supes and saw her in action. So my theory of the timeline would be: he was researching her/Lexcorp info, found out about the other metas, sent her the email question because he wanted to assess how exactly she fit in with the other metas and Superman, went to fight Superman because he was the immediate threat (from his POV), then by the time she shows up as strong as Superman he has already changed his outlook on who was actually dangerous and his enemy (namely, the new immediate threat being Doomsday, who she was standing against).
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Sep 18, 2017 20:38
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Guy A. Person posted:I might be misremembering but I thought that line came after he reconciled with Supes and saw her in action. It did come after, but immediately after, and I saw it as being what he's thought for a while now. As in, "I've been thinking she was with you". I guess it could go either way.
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Sep 18, 2017 20:42
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Oh sure, that's fair. I saw it as him doing the math on the fly. He sees Luthor's research and thinks the metas might have something to do each other, but at the moment he is focused on Superman as the immediate threat. He might actually have the others on his potential hit-list but they're not his priority. When she shows up and displays her super strength he reassesses and thinks maybe they are working together, but at that point it doesn't matter because they're on the same side against Doomsday anyway.
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Sep 18, 2017 20:58
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Meanwhile Superman literally has no idea about what's going on, and seemingly only learned about Batman after he became Superman I kind of want Supes to come back, see the Justice League, and be VERY confused about who all these weirdos are
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Sep 18, 2017 21:03
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I kind of like the implication that Superman just thinks Batman is some dude then he shows up in a loving robo-suit with Kryptonite gas and a high tech jet so he's like, sure, maybe he also had this crazy super powered chick waiting in reserve, why the hell not at this point 
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Sep 18, 2017 21:11
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