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Watched the pilot of The Orville. It's a cheap imitation and not really worth it.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:01
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Josh Lyman posted:Watched the pilot of The Orville. It's a cheap imitation and not really worth it. Counterpoint: its attention to detail and constant referencing of the source material is really great.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:02
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Snak posted:Counterpoint: its attention to detail and constant referencing of the source material is really great. Yeah, I think it has potential, and I want to like it, the jury will probably be out for me until the season is over though.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:04
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Like, the second ep is the first one to have an intro sequence. And it's literally a star trek intro sequence. it's just slaw shots of the ship being in space near various cgi things like nebulas and planet rings and poo poo. Like it's a terrible intro, and it's exactly like almost every star trek intro. The episode opens with a generic establishing shot of the ship, and then it cuts to the captain's office, where they are drinking from a mug, and the doorbell rings. Like 25% of star trek episodes start that way.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:07
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LionArcher posted:Whoever buys Bonds rights is an idiot if they don't do an expanded universe. Hear me out. The movies are just the movies. But make a limited series (8 or 10) episode series that's about 003 or 009 and have it be a female agent. Each season could focus on a single long arc while also doing episode of the week. It's 24 meets meets The Americans meets Bond. One or the other of them - either Apple or Amazon, I can't remember which - said they're interested in pursuing the rights because they think the Bond franchise is "underexploited" so I wouldn't be surprised to see that if either of them got it. Of course, Sony (in)famously thought they'd be able to spin off a new series of movies anchored by Halle Berry as Jinx from Die Another Day while I learned more recently that MGM wanted a spin-off led by Colonel Wai Lin, Michelle Yeoh's character from Tomorrow Never Dies (which I personally would've been more down for).
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Sep 18, 2017 21:09
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Iron Crowned posted:I'm honestly surprised that no one has taken a run at Kolchak since the X-Files. There was a Kolchak series starring Skeet Ulrich I think didn't last long
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Sep 18, 2017 21:10
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less laughter posted:The Crown got 13 nominations. I said "great shows". 
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Sep 18, 2017 21:12
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Shageletic posted:There was a Kolchak series starring Skeet Ulrich I think didn't last long Night Stalker from 2005 starred Stuart Townsend. 10 episodes, only 6 aired on tv.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:13
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My younger sister - who is 18 - is really looking forward to the Dynasty reboot and says all her friends who know about it are too. This is very strange to me because original Dynasty is one of my elderly grandmother's favourite programmes. 
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Sep 18, 2017 21:14
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Bitchy rich people is a tv genre.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:17
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Snak posted:Like, the second ep is the first one to have an intro sequence. And it's literally a star trek intro sequence. it's just slaw shots of the ship being in space near various cgi things like nebulas and planet rings and poo poo.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:25
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I've already seen Voyager like 4 times. I'm cool with watching The Orville.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:31
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Snak posted:I've already seen Voyager like 4 times. I'm cool with watching The Orville.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:38
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Josh Lyman posted:You watched Threshold 4 times? Voluntarily?! "Threshold" won an Emmy  And yeah, it's bad, but it's far from the worst Voyager episode.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:46
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LionArcher posted:Whoever buys Bonds rights is an idiot if they don't do an expanded universe. Hear me out. The movies are just the movies. But make a limited series (8 or 10) episode series that's about 003 or 009 and have it be a female agent. Each season could focus on a single long arc while also doing episode of the week. It's 24 meets meets The Americans meets Bond. There's a lot of options you have with the Bond rights. Can build out the universe or just go with a modern day Bond dealing with modern day situations. We definitely will have a void for a good spy show when the Americans is done. Homeland is pretty terrible.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:46
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I thought Homeland got good again after Brody was gone.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:56
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Blindspot is the best spy shows after The Americans. I'm kidding. Go watch Reilly, Ace of Spies. Although warning about some really cringy yellowface in one of the early episodes.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:58
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Snak posted:Counterpoint: its attention to detail and constant referencing of the source material is really great. Look, I'm really embarrassed to say this having been on your exact side of this debate for other shows, but that pilot's attention to detail and constant low-key references to its inspirations doesn't count for poo poo without good grounding. I mean, let's go back to Malloy pulling that maneuver against the enemy ship in the first episode. There's some handwringing about it, a bit of "Gee, Ed, I don't know if I can pull this off, it's been a while" and then he just does, and it's a thing that happens, and I don't have a reason to get excited about it. Compare that to Galaxy Quest, which is what a lot of people were kind of hoping for with The Orville: That scene where Fred, who's been chill the whole movie, suddenly freaks out when he has to transport Jason because the test run didn't go so well and suddenly the stakes just hit home for him. And then he finds his steel when Laliari shows up, and he pulls it off. THAT'S excitement. You know Fred's gonna pull it off, but you feel the emotional stakes of the moment and that's what stops your breath and makes you go "gently caress yeah!" when Fred pulls Jason out in the nick of time. With The Orville, poo poo just happens. To be fair, The Orville is its own thing and the answer to its problems (as I see them, anyway) isn't necessarily "Be Galaxy Quest." It's insulting to make things that simple. And besides, if you were thrilled by it, then everything I have to say up above is moot; I didn't grow up with The Next Generation as MacFarlane did or you might have, so I'm probably missing something very specific that snaps the show into better relief. But I don't see how having that specific thing means you can't do that very basic sort of buildup/climax/comedown structure. But here's the thing: I still think MacFarlane is a better writer than most people give him credit for—when he's focused. I'll go to bat for Ted any day of the week. A Million Ways to Die in the West and Ted 2, not so much. The good news is that by going purely episodic, he's got a chance to experiment more and figure out what works. And on top of that, he's making a show that so far seems very sincere, and that'll take you farther than too-cool-for-school bullshit every time. What works against him is that the passion that can make this show so appealing can also blind the poo poo out of him; that's what happened with A Million Ways; he clearly loved westerns, but he was trying to balance that with an attempt to take the piss out of the western by injecting his acerbic take on what the frontier was really like, and he was so caught up in that balancing act that he couldn't build his characters, or put them in a story that was worth following. With a good writer's room that isn't getting high off his farts, I think he stands a better chance than he did with A Million Ways. To that effect, I like seeing Liz Heldens (from Friday Night Lights) as one of the producers. Wellesley Wild and Cherry Chevapravatdumrong from Family Guy, not so much. I'm willing to wait and see for now, but that pilot could have been so much better.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:04
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https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/909698756223913984 How many people are going to complain that Good Omens ripped off the name Crowley from Supernatural?
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Sep 18, 2017 22:08
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I grew up with TNG. It was the first show I ever followed. I even bought a couple TNG novels and the Enterprise D Technical Manual. The Orville makes me wish we had more Star Trek, but I don't mean Enterprise or the JJ Abrams films and certainly not ST Discovery.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:12
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If there’s any franchise that we don’t need more of, it’s Star Trek.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:14
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Josh Lyman posted:I grew up with TNG. It was the first show I ever followed. I even bought a couple TNG novels and bought the Enterprise D Technical Manual. Don't hold your breath waiting on Star Trek or Star Wars that doesn't feel like fan fiction. It's all expanded universe now.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:15
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Snak posted:I'm kidding. Go watch Reilly, Ace of Spies. Although warning about some really cringy yellowface in one of the early episodes. Oh, yeah, Sam Neill directed by Martin Campbell (among others). You can watch it and think about what could have been.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:17
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Josh Lyman posted:I thought Homeland got good again after Brody was gone. Maybe for a season. The biggest problem the show has is Carrie. They have to shoehorn her in now because she's no longer in the CIA. And her having a kid (which was pointless) adds another level of gymnastics to the writing. I'd say it devolved into 24 but at least 24 has action.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:19
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Galaxy Quest is a fundamentally different type of parody from The Orville. Galaxy Quest doesn't actually ape the structure of Star Trek. Galazy Quest is a classic fish out of water comedy that uses mocking Trek for its comedic material. And it works great. But the Orville is not doing that at all. The Orville is essentially "playing it straight" and instead mocking the characters and conceits of trek. The Orville has a lot of room for improvement, but I don't want Galaxy Quest out of The Orville at all. Galaxy Queat is a great movie, but I can't see it as a series at all Meanwhile, a serirs that apes trek exactly, but has characters frustrated with bullshit of the genre, is perfecg for someone like me whose watched every trek series at least 3 times. Except Enterprise, I couldn't stand that garbage. For example, ep2 of The Orville makes fun of how, in star trek "A starfleet officer's duty is to the truth" and "you don't deserve to wear that uniform", except when the plot says you should just say "to hell with our orders". As far as I'm concerned, the funniest part of The Orville it's criticism of the "holier than thou" attitude that starfleet has been given over time by the writers. For me, the Orville is a show about the hypocrisy of starfleet that the writers are oblivious to. Also, I got run out of the trek thread because I'm too critical of trek, so The Orville is basically custom made for me, its primary steengths being rigorous references to trek, and constantly mocking hypocrisy of trek's premise. This episode does 4 things at once, outside of visuals: it does the "junior officer struggles with taking command" this is done 3 times in tng, at least once in ds9, and at least twice in Voyager. Then it does "alien person has to take a leave of absense for weird, reproductive thing that's super weird to humans". TOS, VOY, and DS9 all do this at least once. Then it does "What if things had happened differently, how would our relationships be different?/Getting a second chance". TNG and VOY both did this multiple times. Then it does "Alien Zoo" which is mostly TOS. But also multple times. It also does "aliens scanned us and used projections of.our family members to trick us as part of a trap involving a fake distress call". Which has also been done many times. And the fact that all of these ideas have been done multiple times in trek means that watching The Orville is a very similar experience as watching a a trek show for the first time is. By the second episode of TNG, you're already in a situation where it's like "oh hey, this is like the other episode". So The Orville exactly recreates what watching start trek is like for me, but instead of all the characters acting like they are the most mature and morally superior people, they are actually written as the shortsighted dicks the plot demands. And so I find the whole thing quite entertaining. And the fact that it does all this in a structure that looks and feels like trek makes it work. Galaxy Quest does something completely different.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:28
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We're going to be arguing about the Orville three years from now huh
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Sep 18, 2017 22:30
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If Amazon really wants the "next Game of Thrones" they should start knocking on the door of the people working on the new Dune adaptation. It has all the things they're looking for; name recognition, political maneuvering, massive battles, sex scenes and plot twists. Unlike Game of Thrones they can keep actor costs down by the way the story moves on to different characters but leaves an option to bring people by with clones. Also they have a bunch of blank spots that weren't directly covered by books that they could mine for stories, like Paul consolidating his power or the reign of Leto II.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:32
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zoux posted:We're going to be arguing about the Orville three years from now huh I swear, this is all HBO's fault for making Westworld have a 18 month gap inbetween seasons 1 and 2.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:34
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The Orville ship itself is ugly af tho
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Sep 18, 2017 22:36
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Was Jen Kirkman the source of those Louis CK dick-showing rumors?
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Sep 18, 2017 22:36
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Josh Lyman posted:The Orville ship itself is ugly af tho I like ugly ships. It tricks my brain into thinking they must be designed that way for functional reasons.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:37
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zoux posted:Was Jen Kirkman the source of those Louis CK dick-showing rumors? She claims not, or at least she claims she didn't mean to: http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/jen-kirkman-louis-ck-tig-notaro-harassment.html
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Sep 18, 2017 22:38
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:She claims not, or at least she claims she didn't mean to: I don't think her later explanation squares with her original quote.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:47
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:She claims not, or at least she claims she didn't mean to: Yeah that's why I was asking, I didn't realize she was the original source.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:51
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So in order to properly get The Orville, you need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of a show from another network they don’t have the rights to directly reference?
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Sep 18, 2017 22:57
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Vice Principals second and final season hit the ground running. Ya'll are missing out if you ain't watching.
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Sep 18, 2017 22:58
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zoux posted:Yeah that's why I was asking, I didn't realize she was the original source. Actually, I remember that back before Jen Kirkman, there was a blind item a while back that claimed C.K. whipped it out in front of Garfunkel and Oates. It might have been reposted in one of the Louis threads, but it's worth stating that I'm sharing my memory of a piece that wasn't a direct accusation from Riki Lindholme or Kate Miccuci. I think there's some smoke, but it's not Bill Cosby or Woody Allen smoke, at least not yet.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:03
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EL BROMANCE posted:So in order to properly get The Orville, you need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of a show from another network they don’t have the rights to directly reference? I get the feeling that the Orville is written for people familiar with Trek
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Sep 18, 2017 23:03
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EL BROMANCE posted:So in order to properly get The Orville, you need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of a show from another network they don’t have the rights to directly reference? Yeah, pretty much. It's a show for trekkies, not for a mainstream audience. So obviously I don't begrudge anyone disliking it, but it's perfect for me.
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Sep 18, 2017 23:04
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EL BROMANCE posted:So in order to properly get The Orville, you need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of a show from another network they don’t have the rights to directly reference? I'll say this: The second episode was much better, I actually enjoyed it, but it's still got a lot of problems and I wouldn't dream of recommending it. I can see this having an uneven at best first season followed by a solid second season, though (if it gets a second season).
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Sep 18, 2017 23:06
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