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Yeah all murderers should get months-long paid vacations where they roll in upper five figure salaries for doing nothing and then get back to working a job safer than picking up garbage.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:47
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Department receives complaints about Officer A that do not (for one reason or another) result in civil or criminal negative impacts on him or the department. Y but without a leg to stand on or any lengthy disputation process available if the complaints demonstrate, to a reasonable standard, that officer A's conduct is not befitting of a public servant at this time
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Sep 19, 2017 07:49
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Your Parents posted:Yeah all murderers should get months-long paid vacations where they roll in upper five figure salaries for doing nothing and then get back to working a job safer than picking up garbage. Worker protections are, generally, good. I personally like the "you shoot someone for any reason, you ride a desk maybe not just for the duration of your investigation, but forever" happy medium - stuff 'em in some paper-pushing job that needs to be done but won't result in more dead people.
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Sep 19, 2017 07:50
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Jazerus posted:Y but without a leg to stand on or any lengthy disputation process available if the complaints demonstrate, to a reasonable standard, that officer A's conduct is not befitting of a public servant at this time That's reasonable! I tentatively agree with it!
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Sep 19, 2017 07:52
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Your Parents posted:Yeah all murderers should get months-long paid vacations where they roll in upper five figure salaries for doing nothing and then get back to working a job safer than picking up garbage. Where do murder cops make upper five figures? I'm actually serious the starting salary in idahos 33k and median is 48k. If actually found (fairly not the fake poo poo we get now) murder cops should have to pay back their PTO imo. I'm not defending cops. I'm not defending cops. I'm not defending cops. 
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Sep 19, 2017 07:57
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Boon posted:The Navy at least desperately needs it. why? so they can buy more ships that dissolve at sea? GreyjoyBastard posted:the same people who'll loving abolish law enforcement officers in Hellblazer's hypothetical, presumably bodycams are worthless at this point. I do not doubt we could have a cop shooting an innocent person execution style in glorious HD and he would be acquitted of any wrongdoing hell, we've got cops caught with their bodycams planting drugs for arrests and their departments are covering for them we've got a cop on dashcam saying "i'm gonna murder this guy" and then murdering him and being called a hero by judges. cops are completely rotten
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Sep 19, 2017 08:09
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Condiv posted:why? so they can buy more ships that dissolve at sea? I reiterate, would you like to make a constructive proposition? Maybe glance at Campaign Zero which I have been reintroduced to and which seems cool and good? I mean, if you just want to grouch about law enforcement in the States being bad and mean, that's a thing you can do and I will nod along and generally agree, that's a pleasant pastime. 
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Sep 19, 2017 08:49
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Your Parents posted:Should just not have cops imo this is a good idea. would it start by taking their guns? what are you going to do if they don't want to give them up?
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Sep 19, 2017 09:46
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I reiterate, would you like to make a constructive proposition? Maybe glance at Campaign Zero which I have been reintroduced to and which seems cool and good? I'm not sure what can be done aside from tearing down the concept of "police" and maybe starting from scratch. I dunno what you're looking for me to suggest? I mean, south carolina seemed to have some success with holding officers accountable iirc, but right now every system that's supposed to keep cops in check are instead complicit in their lawlessness
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Sep 19, 2017 10:29
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https://www.google.it/amp/amp.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article167275827.htmlquote:COLUMBIA, SC
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Sep 19, 2017 10:33
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awesmoe posted:this is a good idea. would it start by taking their guns? what are you going to do if they don't want to give them up? Send in the armed forces. and then we start using the armed forces for policing, and they start killing people, and we need a civilian police force, yeah we get it
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Sep 19, 2017 10:34
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i mean, better than what's going on elsewhere, but still waayyy waayyy too lenient we need rule of law to apply to cops (harsher than regular citizens) and we need it now
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Sep 19, 2017 10:39
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there is no justice in a country where you can be murdered by a cop cause he's feeling particularly bloodthirsty that day and that cop gets paid time off at worst there is no justice in the united states of america Condiv fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 10:40
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Nah. Harshness of sentencing has no correlation to deterrence, and no one should be excluded from progressive and lenient criminal justice. Five years in jail, and long probation after shooting someone who survives is a pretty fitting sentence. Literally no cop looks at Groubert's sentence and thinks "ok no biggie". Slightly modifying a quote: To minorities, progressive and lenient prosecution with regular benefit of doubt, and nothing less. To cop, progressive and lenient prosecution with regular benefit of doubt, and nothing more. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 10:40
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Vahakyla posted:Nah. Harshness of sentencing has no correlation to deterrence, and no one should be excluded from progressive and lenient criminal justice. until the rest of the justice system is convinced of this fact (and I doubt they will ever be as long as cops face no consequences for their crimes), cops should be sentenced to harsher sentences than normal citizens. they have a greater responsibility to the law than most, and we should penalize them appropriately until they realize that deterrence isn't actually a thing in our overly punitive penal system
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Sep 19, 2017 10:43
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Yardbomb posted:"The dumpy campus cop should call the bluff of the person begging to be killed and brandishing what looks like a knife who keeps coming forward" Theres were two cops, and the dude had a closed multitool. IDGAF about other situations or whatever dumb pig hater poo poo you're putting on me, this situation was avoidable.
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Sep 19, 2017 11:38
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At this point, the problem isn't just the police unions, it's the entire process of policing and justice itself. Elected judges and prosecutors routinely collaborate with police. Police not only get the public's benefit of the doubt, they are also being given the tacit support of the entire local justice system. At the very least, you have to begin by dismantling the elected system of judges and the collaboration between local law enforcement and judiciaries when investigating cops. In most decent countries, there is something similar to an SIU, and independent body that investigates police shootings and can sometimes make binding recommendations to the court system.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:21
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Deteriorata posted:Actually, what I saw was that they were reported to police as having both a khife and a gun and that's the premise the cops were operating under. They didn't know he only had a knife until after. Shooting a guy you think is coming at you with a gun is at least more justifiable. again, if someone considers this a danger, they don't need to be in a position to end lives with impunity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeSzAJv6naY
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Sep 19, 2017 13:25
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skeleton warrior posted:I certainly think that would help, but again, if you're not just taking the lowest bidder, then you're spending more money. IT is so interconnected and interwoven to everything that money cut there usually costs you more down the line. For instance, let's say there's a problem with a hard drive on a server, and that server is essential to Application X. Every day that hard drive is hosed up is a day that everyone who works on Application X and everyone who depends on Application X in their work is basically just playing with themselves at work all day. If you go with a mid-priced decent-quality contractor, everything's fixed in a day or two. If you go with an underpriced bottom-dollar PoS contractor, it'll take you a week or more to handle the situation, and you'll have a lot of dudes who can't do their jobs in that time.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:26
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Jackson Taus posted:IT is so interconnected and interwoven to everything that money cut there usually costs you more down the line. Yes and no: there are plenty of places the government is massively overpaying for old systems that need specialized maintenance or proprietary/closed-source systems or for systems whose job is to interface with old systems and make them pretend to be modern. But until you invest to replace those with better systems, you're stuck with them: you can't defund them and not expect things to fall apart.
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Sep 19, 2017 13:58
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In today's edition of https://twitter.com/AliceOllstein/status/910128599495249920 quote:The Republican Governors Association has quietly launched an online publication that looks like a media outlet and is branded as such on social media. The Free Telegraph blares headlines about the virtues of GOP governors, while framing Democrats negatively. It asks readers to sign up for breaking news alerts. It launched in the summer bearing no acknowledgement that it was a product of an official party committee whose sole purpose is to get more Republicans elected.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:28
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I've heard of them! I'll read up, thanks. The problem with abolishing police unions is that police and especially prison guards are more likely to become (more) corrupt and either shake people down or facilitate criminal activity when they receive lower pay. Plus, lower pay and less benefits will probably mean worse applicants, exacerbating our problems.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:38
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I love so many bits of the BLM constellation
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Pembroke Fuse posted:At this point, the problem isn't just the police unions, it's the entire process of policing and justice itself. Elected judges and prosecutors routinely collaborate with police. Police not only get the public's benefit of the doubt, they are also being given the tacit support of the entire local justice system. At the very least, you have to begin by dismantling the elected system of judges and the collaboration between local law enforcement and judiciaries when investigating cops. In most decent countries, there is something similar to an SIU, and independent body that investigates police shootings and can sometimes make binding recommendations to the court system.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:45
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Democrazy posted:The problem with abolishing police unions is that police and especially prison guards are more likely to become (more) corrupt and either shake people down or facilitate criminal activity when they receive lower pay. Plus, lower pay and less benefits will probably mean worse applicants, exacerbating our problems. The problem with police unions is that they do things like use twitter to advocate murdering protestors.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:50
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You won't be able to fix policing until our broken justice system is fixed. That's not "we can't do two things are once so don't do either" bullshit but it's admitting that all the cameras in the world won't matter until prosecutors don't intentionally tank cases for officers or in the rare cases that make it to court, the judge and laws aren't bent in the police's favor. There was a lot of naivety that if people saw police breaking laws on camera that the system would do its job and punish accordingly. However like with our Trump and Republican controlled government in general it's becoming clear the system is so corrupted that you can't assume people won't blatantly break the rules to cover for anything if they know they won't be held accountable since a scary amount of the public supports fascism against their enemies.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:59
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https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/910137266009407488 Is there a profession with as many psychopaths as law enforcement?
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Sep 19, 2017 15:00
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Javes posted:https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/910137266009407488 Economics, stock trading, upper level banking...
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Sep 19, 2017 15:04
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Javes posted:https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/910137266009407488 Republican congressmen?
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Sep 19, 2017 15:04
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Javes posted:https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/910137266009407488 So I just looked up spit mask and it appears to be a bag placed over the mouth and potentially nose of an inmate. Isn't that an insane smothering hazard?
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Sep 19, 2017 15:07
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It never ceases to amaze me how many fewer people are shot by police in Canada per capita.  Also, ban military contractors and consultants. I'm not sure who is better or worse on a per $ basis but the Canadian Navy is a literal 3rd world shitshow right now.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:11
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Wistful of Dollars posted:It never ceases to amaze me how many fewer people are shot by police in Canada per capita. Exmilitary people have been advocating and selling the idea of military training to US cops since a bunch of them got back from the Iraq war with nothing to do.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:16
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Did Trump just nickname Kim Jong Un on the loving UN floor? e: wrong thread, whoops. dreffen fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 15:21
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PSA: The President of the United States is speaking before the UN.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:24
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Potato Salad posted:PSA: The President of the United States is speaking before the UN. All you need to know is: Rocket Man.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:25
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CommieGIR posted:All you need to know is: Rocket Man. And loser terrorists
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Sep 19, 2017 15:29
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Javes posted:https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/910137266009407488 Law enforcement draws psychopaths like moths to a flame. The corrupt cop is literally one of the oldest story-telling devices in literature. i am harry posted:Exmilitary people have been advocating and selling the idea of military training to US cops since a bunch of them got back from the Iraq war with nothing to do. If they brought their ROE with them, I'd say fine. It's easier for a cop to murder you in America than a US soldier to murder you in Baghdad. They won't though. No, they'll just be psychopaths with pent up rage about not being able to kill people. Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 15:39
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i am harry posted:The problem with police unions is that they do things like use twitter to advocate murdering protestors. In that case, I would say that the unions reflect the culture rather than cause it.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:54
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Your Parents posted:Yeah all murderers should get months-long paid vacations where they roll in upper five figure salaries for doing nothing and then get back to working a job safer than picking up garbage. It blows my mind how easily officers can be re-hired in other departments even if they are, somehow, against all odds, fired.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:01
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Aren't exmilitary people also usually way better cops, because they have both trigger discipline and deescalation / situational awareness drilled into them for years?
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Sep 19, 2017 16:01
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Grapplejack posted:Aren't exmilitary people also usually way better cops, because they have both trigger discipline and deescalation / situational awareness drilled into them for years? I've heard that ROEs in Iraq were more stringent than whatever training cops get, but can't confirm first-hand. Could just be bullshit.
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Sep 19, 2017 16:26
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