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Cyouni posted:The wall-spider and her actual ability to do that suggests otherwise. As well, she specifically went out to fetch Natsuhi in episode 5, so clearly it doesn't force everyone to be there. The fact that Erika selectively chooses to assume Kinzo is alive despite knowing he's dead shows that she doesn't really care about finding the truth in that episode, at least once she set her eyes on Natsuhi. Like, we have a specific example of her conveniently ignoring information because it doesn't fit the theory she's trying to sell. Pointing out something is fishy with Shannon/Kanon in EP5 would just help remove suspicion from Natsuhi, which isn't something she would want. Cyouni posted:That seems to defeat the whole "no more people will die" section of Beatrice's promise if she then goes off and kills Nanjo. There probably wasn't time to go deactivate the bomb, so everyone was going to die anyways. That being said, was Nanjo staked? If so, that casts doubt on my "she killed Nanjo for personal/situational reasons rather than as part of the epitaph killings" idea. If he wasn't, it supports the idea that his killing was unrelated to any attempt to maintain the charade. I don't think you can safely just assume other peoples' issues match your own. Everyone interprets people through the lens of their own experiences to a certain extent, but you can choose to also acknowledge and understand that other people have very different experiences from your own. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 17:14
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From the way Yasu just... shut down when the adults discovered the gold, I don't get the impression that Yasu has a death wish particularly, or that they even want to commit suicide. It's certainly not their first priority, or they wouldn't take such roundabout ways of getting there; additionally, I hardly think the scale of their plans suggests the possibility of copping out whatsoever. It's a very strong commitment to... something. I'm not sure that giving up is part of Yasu's thought process, in brief. I think they just feel... done, and the death part doesn't even factor into that at all. I suspect Yasu starts the roulette wheel, and views its eventual stopping position as something inevitable, rather than something they've actively chosen. free Trapt CD fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 17:36
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Hi, ZD, it's me, your friend Witchchat poster alcharagia. I'd just like to say, as someone who has had issues with this same sort of thing on the forums, that perhaps you could've worded this better, or perhaps opted not to say it at all. Maybe this wasn't the post you wanted to make. Just, uh, take a moment to think about this, please.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:48
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ZiegeDame posted:Warning: this post is about to get a bit personal, for the benefit of resurgam's understanding. ZD, there are potentially irl people here who have either lost a loved one to suicide or are in a situation where they are personally struggling with suicidal feelings, and maybe consider that these kind of statements could do actual harm to them. It's okay if Yasu's situation doesn't resonate with you personally or you don't sympathize with her, but I think that wide application onto her feelings and response to them isn't really appropriate to express here.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:52
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Hi, everyone else has put it way more politely than me so I don't feel the need to That was the worst goddamn these I've ever seen and I think worse of you for reading it Please think about how your words can affect other people And try not to poo poo on people at the lowest moment of their YOu obviously haven't thought about the fact that real people go through this poo poo and you're equating having a bad situation to being a bad person I've personally had to help talk my closest friends out of suicide And I'm legitimately angry at you. You made me stop lurking to post this Go gently caress yourself, rear end in a top hat Nea Nea fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Sep 19, 2017 |
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Sep 19, 2017 17:56
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 So uh, witches are real, I think we can all agree to that
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Sep 19, 2017 18:12
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Hi I'm just going to post this resource in case anyone reading this thread needs it for some reason! THE SUICIDE PREVENTION LIFELINE IS GREAT! Call 1-800-273 TALK or chat online! I'm so glad you're alive 
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Sep 19, 2017 18:16
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Additional places are https://www.imalive.org/ and http://www.7cups.com/ .Yeah, thank god that those resources exist. The people there do good work. Everyone stands to know of these sort of places when things are pretty dire. The world sucks poo poo, but I hope things go well for everyone.
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Sep 19, 2017 19:16
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E: Woah hey, I take a while writing up a literary analysis effort post and a bunch of people have a problem with me expressing the (admittedly harsh) attitude I take with myself in hard times. It was never my intention to poo poo on anyone else's struggles or those of their loved ones. Every post I've made for about the past week or so has been in an effort to understand my own emotional response to this text, and hopefully to make the same understood by others, as people seem to have been taking issue with my reactions of late. I'm sure anyone who has read this far in this story can understand that desire. But I will happily edit out the offending content if everyone who quoted it would be kind enough to do the same. Anyway, I've made a few adjustments to my post below, but will still post it as it has very little to do with the sensitive subject that set this off. If you find it interesting of insightful in any way, let me know. If you want to tell me how wrong it is, hey, maybe some other time, yeah? But to clarify, when I'm talking about getting a happy ending, I'm in particular referring to the interaction between Clair and Lion when Lion's existence is essentially Yasu saying "if only [thing outside my control] had been different, I would have been happy." Which is a position the story itself (via Bern) immediately refutes. Changing certain elements outside your control (aka Fate) might make the 'happy ending' easier to harder to reach, but you still have to reach for it yourself. As Battler already demonstrated, nobody is going to ride up on a white horse and hand it to you. (Incidentally this is where I get a little suspect of George and Shannon's relationship. How much does Yasu genuinely love George, and how much of it is latching on to the first person who offered to take them away from this lovely island.) It's also worth keeping in mind getting a happy ending is not this fixed, immutable thing, especially in the context of a story where the concept of death is fuzzy at best. We've sort of paused the story at the lowest point, right before the dramatic turnaround is supposed to start, so of course the hero is gonna look bad right now. (Is Yasu the hero? gently caress if I know, nothing in this story is that simple.) But it's worth considering what the death of Beatrice could really mean here. Kanon, for all his pessimism and anger and colorless world, is the persona that consistently advocates against the "kill everyone then myself" plan. And every time he takes up arms against this plan, Beato('s minions) kills him for his trouble. Consider EP4 where only Kanon can effect the jailbreak, Shannon can only talk him into struggling once more. And in EP6 his position is basically "let's give Jessica a fair shot" while Shannon's is "gently caress this I'm outie". (The relative merits of these positions probably comes down to how much you trust George.) And even though Kanon dies here too, the net effect is it allows him to be the one to rescue Battler. At the end of the day, Kanon is a man of action. Probably not a coincidence that Yasu assigned that trait to the male persona. Let's actually look at the positions in the love duel for a second. Shannon's goal if to leave the island behind a forget all about Kanon. In other words, excise the parts of their self that don't fit with cultural norms and just be Shannon, the popular servant girl who everyone likes. It definitely doesn't include ever telling George about all the hosed-up Kinzo stuff. Kanon meanwhile promises to treasure Shannon, ie embrace all aspects of themself. (ok maybe not Beato but I'll get to that later.) Seeing giving things a shot with Jessica, romantic feelings aside, can also be viewed in the fact that Yasu and Jessica have ostensibly been friends for ten years, but in all that time Yasu has never talked to Jessica about any of the real stuff going on in their life. Treasuring Shannon while exploring a relationship with Jessica would have to mean trying to let Jessica understand the full Yasu. Writing this all out has, I think, lead me to a greater degree of understanding of the three faces of Yasu. What follows is not an argument or assertion, but a signpost to test against my own future re-read. I share it only for the chance that someone else might find it interesting or helpful. Shannon is societal expectations, the idealized form of what (Yasu believes) the world wants Yasu to be, played to the best of their ability. Kanon is all those aspects of Yasu that don't fit in the above, including anger, resentment, and some criminally under-explored gender and sexuality issues. Thoughts or feelings that are difficult to express or act on get dumped here. Beatrice is coping mechanisms, escapist fantasy and the trauma-induced cruelty common to most witches in this story. The latter of which manifests both as harmless pranks and elaborate murder plots.
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Sep 19, 2017 19:23
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ZiegeDame posted:But to clarify, when I'm talking about getting a happy ending, I'm in particular referring to the interaction between Clair and Lion when Lion's existence is essentially Yasu saying "if only [thing outside my control] had been different, I would have been happy." Which is a position the story itself (via Bern) immediately refutes. I actually largely agree with your evaluation of the roles Yasu's personas have, but this bit in particular I'd like to ask: Do you feel like you fully understand why Yasu feels Lion specifically is their only avenue to happiness?
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Sep 19, 2017 19:29
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ProfessorProf posted:Nanjo: Kinzo maybe you should stop poisoning the lives of everyone in your life Nanjo was pretty much the other reason everything happened aside from Kinzo and he regretted it less. I am decently content with Yasu killing Nanjo not for the ceremony, but because gently caress Nanjo. PetraCore posted:Stubborn and observant aren't the same thing. In fact, Erika's extreme dedication and stubbornness is what makes her a poor detective, imo. I don't think she's nonobservant, I just think she's far too rigid. Oh yeah definitely. That's not something that can be disputed. rko posted:I don't really think the point of her backstory in EP6 was supposed to highlight her exceptional powers of observance; she super clearly decided her partner was cheating and then fit all of her observances into that schema. She's consantly searching for a "truth" that fits into her preconceived notions, and she's far too full of herself to reexamine said conceptions. In both episodes she has appeared in, she came in with a clear and obvious mission and then singlemindedly pursued her goals, so why should it be so hard to believe she would get fooled so badly? I mean at that point you might as well have a blinded Jessica as the detective. The whole point of presenting someone with actual abilities to deduce and observe, even if they're exceptionally rigid and have an outside agenda, should mean that they have the ability to actually observe things. Hell, I can't think of a single person in the Ushiromiyas who I'd think would be able to miss the fact that someone was absent when 'everyone' was theoretically present, but they can be excused by bribery. Erika can't. Ytlaya posted:The fact that Erika selectively chooses to assume Kinzo is alive despite knowing he's dead shows that she doesn't really care about finding the truth in that episode, at least once she set her eyes on Natsuhi. Like, we have a specific example of her conveniently ignoring information because it doesn't fit the theory she's trying to sell. Pointing out something is fishy with Shannon/Kanon in EP5 would just help remove suspicion from Natsuhi, which isn't something she would want. Ytlaya posted:There probably wasn't time to go deactivate the bomb, so everyone was going to die anyways. -- ZiegeDame posted:But to clarify, when I'm talking about getting a happy ending, I'm in particular referring to the interaction between Clair and Lion when Lion's existence is essentially Yasu saying "if only [thing outside my control] had been different, I would have been happy." Which is a position the story itself (via Bern) immediately refutes. I won't comment on the thing that set this off (having a very...interesting view on the situation), but I'm pretty sure Lion was happy until they were shot by Kyrie. Kyrie's murder-o'clock has nothing to do with Lion's happiness vs Yasu's lack of it.
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Sep 19, 2017 21:10
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resurgam40 posted:And? Do you wish to actually have sex with everyone you flirt with, or who flirts with you? That's... sudden, did I misread you?  What I meant to say was that the elements of their romantic love didn't just suddenly pop up out of nowhere in EP3, they have consistently been there from the beginning. I guess without shipping it can't be seen, but whatever.resurgam40 posted:And while it is nice to think that the Big Twist in EP3 is just a particularly extreme way of pushing Battler back into seeing the truth... well, for one thing, Battler didn't need to be pushed, he was still absolutely gunning for the truth even at the beginning until Beato decided to add the extra wrinkle herself. The point of the North Wind and the Sun strategy was to give him another sort of clue and to punish him for being so easily led down a path because it confirmed his biases... but there is really something darker here that we can't ignore.  "Well, love is different for every person. As long as you're with someone who's fun to be around, does anything else matter?"Battler absolutely needed to be pushed, many times. He admitted to enjoying his time together with Beato. He wanted to give up several times, notably at the end of EP2 where he needed to be shown a pretty gruesome scene just to get him to stand up again, and at the end of EP3 where he was already going to sign the paper admitting that magic is real so he could live happily in the Golden Land with his witch waifu. He had already completely given up in his fight against EVA, he was going to stop thinking for good. The only reason he didn't is because Virgilia and Beato stopped him just before he signed by acting really obviously strange and suspicious, just short of cackling. I would call it dropping the mask, but really it's the opposite: they had to put on the mask of the evil witches they were supposed to be to get Battler fighting again. The real strategy was actually more like the Sun and the Northern Wind: they were trying to make him wary again by first acting warm and then throwing cold water on him. The tea party battle in EP4 is rife with Battler trying stop hurting Beato with every chance he gets, and every time she has to hit him where it hurts the most by mocking Ange just to keep him going. resurgam40 posted:Yasu wants to be known, yes, more than anything else, and it would be nice if Battler was the one who knew them... but they also want to die. I was going to write something longer here but tl;dr - you shouldn't assume that Yasu and meta-Beatrice are strictly the same person and/or in the same situation. Even assuming that Yasu wanted to die, that doesn't necessarily carry over to Beatrice as-is. Beatrice never showed any intention of dying until just the end when Bern and Lambda gave her no other choice and literally chained her to her fate. ZiegeDame posted:(Incidentally this is where I get a little suspect of George and Shannon's relationship. How much does Yasu genuinely love George, and how much of it is latching on to the first person who offered to take them away from this lovely island.) Yasu/Shannon 100% genuinely loves George and that's the whole crux of Umineko. If she could just drop George in favor of Battler, there's no reason for things to have escalated as badly as they did. Just like Clair said, if Battler had arrived a year sooner when their relationship hadn't yet progressed too far or later when the decision to marry George had already been made, whatever incident there might have been wouldn't have been anywhere near the same scale.
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Sep 19, 2017 22:32
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Cyouni posted:I mean at that point you might as well have a blinded Jessica as the detective. The whole point of presenting someone with actual abilities to deduce and observe, even if they're exceptionally rigid and have an outside agenda, should mean that they have the ability to actually observe things. Hell, I can't think of a single person in the Ushiromiyas who I'd think would be able to miss the fact that someone was absent when 'everyone' was theoretically present, but they can be excused by bribery. Erika can't. Also, I find it easy to believe that people could miss the fact that Shannon or Kanon was missing at any given time during EP5 and 6. Did you watch that video I posted? When we're focused on one thing, it's extremely easy for other things to pass us by. This was helped along by the fact that nobody even really mentions Shannon or Kanon to Erika, who is ostensibly "new" to the island, and the narrative was specifically designed by Battler and Lambda to elide that fact. She didn't see the gorilla; she was too busy watching the balls getting passed.
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Sep 19, 2017 22:37
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resurgam40 posted:And? Do you wish to actually have sex with everyone you flirt with, or who flirts with you? As an expert on goons and dating games, the answer is clearly "yes."
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Sep 19, 2017 22:52
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rko posted:I mean, it's cool if this story beat doesn't work for you. Witchchat spent a lot of time debating it a few days ago, as a matter of fact. That said, R07 didn't "[present] someone with actual abilities to deduce and observe." He did the opposite; he created a deeply flawed character designed to explore a certain kind of detective/reader that R07 wanted to critique. She may be observant and clever, but none of that matters if your vision only extends as far as your predetermined theory. My assertion is simply this: I'm decently observant, probably only slightly more than the norm though. Even the first time I'd ever seen that video, the gorilla stood out to me. However, I don't particularly think I'd be able to track the particular ways a paper towel's folded unless it's radically different, or in some insanely decorative shape. That's something that Erika was specifically noted as doing. Similarly, if you specifically call everyone in to question them, I find it incredibly difficult to see someone completely overlooking the sudden absence of someone that had been questioned, and then declaring that everyone's in a group. tiistai posted:Battler absolutely needed to be pushed, many times. He admitted to enjoying his time together with Beato. He wanted to give up several times, notably at the end of EP2 where he needed to be shown a pretty gruesome scene just to get him to stand up again Point of order: he wanted to accept the witch in episode 2 just so that he could believe that no family member or servant was capable of committing the murders.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:04
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Cyouni posted:My assertion is simply this: I'm decently observant, probably only slightly more than the norm though. Even the first time I'd ever seen that video, the gorilla stood out to me. However, I don't particularly think I'd be able to track the particular ways a paper towel's folded unless it's radically different, or in some insanely decorative shape. That's something that Erika was specifically noted as doing. Did Piece-Erika ever meet Shannon? Did she know Shannon was supposed to be there? Piece specifically, not Meta, since we know the meta incarnation of the detective can see things that aren't true reflections of the game board.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:17
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tiistai posted:I was going to write something longer here but tl;dr - you shouldn't assume that Yasu and meta-Beatrice are strictly the same person and/or in the same situation. Even assuming that Yasu wanted to die, that doesn't necessarily carry over to Beatrice as-is. Beatrice never showed any intention of dying until just the end when Bern and Lambda gave her no other choice and literally chained her to her fate. And what does that tell you? That only reinforces the image I have for Berne and Lambda to be the stand ins for mental illness: That Beatrice, and therefore Yasu wanted to walk away several times, but the sicknesses that they had and the growing guilt for their actions (that we can just see growing and weighing down on them throughout the story) forced them into the tragic path that we see. If the meta Beatrice is a metaphor for Yasu and her struggle (and I believe that they are), this is a parallel that can be drawn, and you can see the mental strain Yasu is under throughout. Think about it: when is the first time we see Beatrice completely, utterly lose it? When Kanon and Shannon start standing against her- well, the latter mostly, but you begin to notice how much more crazy she gets when Kanon starts fighting- and now that we know that they are truly facets of her being, well... that paints a really interesting portrait of the overall psyche of Yasu, doesn't it? It shows that although they say that they have given themselves entirely to the roulette and now have to play this game for their own sake, that they are a lot more conflicted that they pretend... that now that the situation has placed them in a situation where they had to kill the cousins- and people they loved, truly- that their conscience and history with the Ushiromiyas, and the knowledge that no, they don't really deserve what Yasu is going to do to them, truly starts welling up despite her own rage and torment. It puts their decision to commit to this bloody path in an unflattering light, and reveals it for the lie it is: that doing this isn't going to vindicate or sooth her suffering, or avenge what happened to her mother, because punishing Kinzo's heirs is not the same as punishing the Coward himself. Nor will this help them fix their dysphoria, or do anything to get them off this terrible place... the reason Beato goes mad in the face of Shannon's calm reactions to her torture and goading is because she knows that she is right- this isn't going to help her in the end, and she is pathetic for insisting upon this path: pinning all her hopes on some vague mystery that they hope the only one they cannot bring themselves to kill personally will get what they're saying at the end. The fanciful flourishes of magic, which vexed us all so much last novel... was actually shorthand for a mind tearing itself apart. Of breaking itself down under the pressure forced upon it until there is nothing left to want.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:36
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ZiegeDame posted:But to clarify, when I'm talking about getting a happy ending, I'm in particular referring to the interaction between Clair and Lion when Lion's existence is essentially Yasu saying "if only [thing outside my control] had been different, I would have been happy." Which is a position the story itself (via Bern) immediately refutes. Changing certain elements outside your control (aka Fate) might make the 'happy ending' easier to harder to reach, but you still have to reach for it yourself. As Battler already demonstrated, nobody is going to ride up on a white horse and hand it to you. (Incidentally this is where I get a little suspect of George and Shannon's relationship. How much does Yasu genuinely love George, and how much of it is latching on to the first person who offered to take them away from this lovely island.) I think you're not really putting yourself in Yasu's shoes and taking into account the life they've had up until that point. She's always lived on Rokkenjima and literally all of her emotional connections are there, and she's still a teenager. Running away from home, especially for someone who has lived an exceptionally limited existence up until that point, is a zillion times easier said than done. And that's not even taking into account the love stuff, which is another thing she felt was binding her to Rokkenjima. I think most people would agree that Yasu could have made more optimal choices. For example, even if things don't work out with George/Jessica/Battler, life is long and they don't know what lies in the future. But the whole problem is that they can't help but view Rokkenjima as their entire universe. Do you remember in EP2 when Shannon is on her date with George and mentions how, to the fish, the tank must seem like the entire ocean? That's basically an analogy for what Rokkenjima is to her. Simply throwing away everything she's ever known is not simple, especially for someone that young and saddled with so many other issues/traumas. There's also the fact that she feels trapped. She feels that a confrontation with (at least) George is necessary (which is basically true unless she decided to preemptively dump him, which she doesn't want to do), and is hopelessly terrified of it. This makes perfect sense, given that people in real life are frequently murdered for revealing such things to their partners (not saying George would necessarily go this far, but just that there's a good reason for her to be scared shitless of revealing things to him or others). So basically I think the key is to think of things not in terms of "what is technically/physically possible for Yasu" and more in terms of what was emotionally possible for her given her background and previous experiences. ZiegeDame posted:Writing this all out has, I think, lead me to a greater degree of understanding of the three faces of Yasu. What follows is not an argument or assertion, but a signpost to test against my own future re-read. I share it only for the chance that someone else might find it interesting or helpful. I think this is basically spot-on re: what each facet represents.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:53
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Re: story beats that don't work for witchchat, Lion Timeline Massacre is a really dumb thing.
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Sep 20, 2017 00:12
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Rodyle posted:Re: story beats that don't work for witchchat, Lion Timeline Massacre is a really dumb thing. Is it? I mean, if the adults all found the room and the firearms and ammunition were there waiting, these assholes probably would've slaughtered each other and everyone else.
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Sep 20, 2017 00:16
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By the way, I think many people misinterpret the North Wind and Sun strategy from EP3 as Beato punishing Battler for not thinking hard enough (as I think resurgam mentioned). It's far more likely that the strategy was an attempt to get Battler to approach the "puzzle" from a perspective more sympathetic to Beatrice, because previously he had been treating things as a direct battle with her as The Enemy, and such a view will never lead him to really understand the truth (Yasu's feelings, motive, etc). So Beato introduces Eva-trice and also adds some sappy scenes to get Battler to think "hmm, maybe there's more to this than I thought." But the problem is that Battler buys into it whole-hog and begins totally supporting Beatrice's existence as a witch. This is not what Beato intended from the strategy, and you can see how surprised she is at how strongly Battler supports her. So when she reveals the trick at the end, it's just out of necessity, because she doesn't really want a "Battler accepts the witch" outcome. So the important thing to realize is that the "troll" at the end was not the intent of the strategy. It was something done out of necessity due to the strategy backfiring and making Battler like Beatrice way more than she ever intended or expected.
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Sep 20, 2017 00:28
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Is it? I mean, if the adults all found the room and the firearms and ammunition were there waiting, these assholes probably would've slaughtered each other and everyone else. Possibly, but here's something to think about : why would the guns all be there in that timeline like they are in OTL because Lion put them there, but Kinzo doesn't normally KEEP them there, one assumes the massacre is made possibly by such a specific series of events, the Lion bit just comes off as Bern/R07 embellishing for maximum tragedy rather than a plausible outcome
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Sep 20, 2017 01:03
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Is it? I mean, if the adults all found the room and the firearms and ammunition were there waiting, these assholes probably would've slaughtered each other and everyone else. Don't forget the gold and the bomb! The guns were known all along, after all: they're Kinzo's. The point of contention is in that "if," and trying to imagine how finding the three items, guns, gold, and bomb all at once in a world without Yasu or the Epitaph would work. But yeah, it'd still totally happen if the opportunity arose, but the how without resorting to a "Don't think about it too hard" is a little more mysterious.
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Sep 20, 2017 01:05
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There aren't many, but I finally added the TIPS for episodes 6 and 7.
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Sep 20, 2017 01:13
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Rodyle posted:Possibly, but here's something to think about : D3m3 posted:Don't forget the gold and the bomb! The guns were known all along, after all: they're Kinzo's. The point of contention is in that "if," and trying to imagine how finding the three items, guns, gold, and bomb all at once in a world without Yasu or the Epitaph would work. But yeah, it'd still totally happen if the opportunity arose, but the how without resorting to a "Don't think about it too hard" is a little more mysterious. Isn't that the room where Kinzo placed all the gold? Also, Kinzo totally seems like the type who keeps his illegal firearms piled up with his dumb, nigh un-launderable gold so he can have Scrooge McDuck wealth baths while screeching KIRISAKU WOOOOO DESIIIIIRE, BEATO-RI-CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. The bomb is already so implausible in either timeline that I don't find it bears much consideration. 900 tons of sᴍᴀʟʟ ʙᴏᴍʙs rigged to blow from a grandfather clock is just silly as hell no matter what meta layer we're looking at. Honestly, the introduction of Lion to this story just feels like a distraction. They may share a common body across the timelines, but Lion and Yasu are two very different people.
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Sep 20, 2017 01:15
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Rodyle posted:Possibly, but here's something to think about :
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Sep 20, 2017 01:19
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Kinzo hides them there during the conference to make sure a gunfight doesn't break out. Unfortunately he forgot about that when he spontaneously decided to introduce the epitaph. He's old, the elderly are prone to forgetfulness. Let's not forget he's probably at least mildly intoxicated thanks to his absinthe habit. Of course he forgot he threw the lit matches in with the tinder!  Kinzooooo!
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Sep 20, 2017 01:23
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:He's old, the elderly are prone to forgetfulness. Let's not forget he's probably at least mildly intoxicated thanks to his absinthe habit. Of course he forgot he threw the lit matches in with the tinder! "Well, I wouldn't put it past Father..."
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Sep 20, 2017 01:55
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Kinzo is deeply concerned for the wellbeing of his family in the Lion timeline. That's why he put a notice on the grandfather clock warning people NOT to flip the switch or else it will blow everything up at 24:00.
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Sep 20, 2017 01:58
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I wasn't even going to get into the clock but yeah
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Sep 20, 2017 02:50
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Idran posted:Did Piece-Erika ever meet Shannon? Did she know Shannon was supposed to be there? ProfessorProf posted:
I'd be quite sure everyone involved includes Shannon/Kanon.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:09
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"Yes, that's right. We did get fairly tired. We decided to take a short rest and then start up again."
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Cyouni posted:I'd be quite sure everyone involved includes Shannon/Kanon. This is pretty easily explained by ether them changing outfits after being questioned. Or one giving an ailbi for the other and Erika not bother to check with the other.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:13
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Honestly, the introduction of Lion to this story just feels like a distraction. They may share a common body across the timelines, but Lion and Yasu are two very different people. Lion's existence and the circumstances that allow them to exist is a hugely important clue to Yasu's situation, mindset, and why they feel that suicide is potentially the only way out.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:13
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Raelle posted:Lion's existence and the circumstances that allow them to exist is a hugely important clue to Yasu's situation, mindset, and why they feel that suicide is potentially the only way out. Are you saying this as a witch?
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Sep 20, 2017 03:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:This is pretty easily explained by ether them changing outfits after being questioned. Or one giving an ailbi for the other and Erika not bother to check with the other. Why would they need to provide alibis for two people? From the moment Erika stepped onto the island, nobody has said anything about there being two servants named Shannon and Kanon. Suppose that, on this board, Genji informs Natsuhi that the servants who will be available to work on that day are Gohda, Kumasawa, and Kanon. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 03:17
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Are you saying this as a witch? No, it's based on this:  and clues regarding it that are contained within the other episodes.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:25
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Raelle posted:No, it's based on this: I'm not seeing why this requires Lion, to be honest. I'm probably just slow.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:40
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Cyouni posted:I won't comment on the thing that set this off (having a very...interesting view on the situation), but I'm pretty sure Lion was happy until they were shot by Kyrie. Kyrie's murder-o'clock has nothing to do with Lion's happiness vs Yasu's lack of it. I think the disconnect here is you're talking about a person or character, and I'm talking about a story. It'd be a pretty boring story where a witch just descends from the heavens and gives the hero everything they want. The hero has to face adversity and struggle to overcome it in order for the happy ending to feel earned, to make the story worth reading. This, to me, is the difference between happiness and a happy ending. Ytlaya posted:So basically I think the key is to think of things not in terms of "what is technically/physically possible for Yasu" and more in terms of what was emotionally possible for her given her background and previous experiences. I'd think that the existence of Kanon suggests that Yasu is at least capable of contemplating choices that aren't self-destructive, but I'll need to do a more thorough reading to see if I can find a reason that him getting totally owned is inevitable. - And if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm struggling find a meaning behind 'a body incapable of love' that doesn't feel transphobic as hell
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Sep 20, 2017 03:46
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ZiegeDame posted:And if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm struggling find a meaning behind 'a body incapable of love' that doesn't feel transphobic as hell I choose to see that as the character's feelings rather than something the narrative is trying to push as a truth.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:48
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| # ? May 21, 2024 01:50 |
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It is absolutely unambiguously the character's own depression and anxieties, and not the narrative's position. The narrative is a love story between her and Battler!
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Sep 20, 2017 03:57
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