|
Well, I screw over Aztechnology as a matter of course as a runner (when my scruples allow me to, of course), so I let the guy go as well. I don't remember if I made it clear that I did so to Mr. Johnson, but I don't think so. I don't need that kind of Azzie heat on me, even if it lets me kill whatever security forces they send after me until they just stop playing and a Jaguar Guard hacks my face off with his obsidian machahulti (or however you spell it) after I down the rest of his squad or an Azzie blood Mage gets to me when I turn out to be too much trouble and piss off the wrong guy. Also, never noticed that cyber shows up on your character either, though I should, since I chromed up my Street Sams so much in these games. Then again, I never got cyber limbs, so I guess stuff like cyber eyes, dermal plating, bone lacing, and wired reflexes wouldn't show up on my character model like that.
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 07:04 |
|
|
Was this mission added in a later patch? The only time I played Returns was right after it came out and I don't remember doing this at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 18:54
|
|
|
Alacron posted:Was this mission added in a later patch? The only time I played Returns was right after it came out and I don't remember doing this at all. It's optional and you can only do it at this time so there's a 50% chance you just missed it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
It's also the least memorable mission in the entire series, so I wouldn't blame anyone for forgetting it even if they had done it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 19:40
|
|
Kanfy posted:It's also the least memorable mission in the entire series, so I wouldn't blame anyone for forgetting it even if they had done it. I at least thought it was somewhat memorable because of the line "I have a fragging HERD of BASILISKS, idiot." Something about that line is just special. Also, the corp mage has some pretty neat getup.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
Goddamn it, I love these corporate mage getups so loving much. There's something about seeing people in sorcerers' robes coupled with SHIRT AND TIE that makes me giggle for some reason. Can you imagine what the conversations with management must have been like? "Sir, for the last time: these robes are essential for the channeling of arcane forces! Any additional fabric could have consequences!" "And I am telling YOU for the last time, that this is a BUSINESS FORMAL office! You don't get to A+ status by having people walk around in their every day clothes like some two bit startup! Find a way to work with the friggin ties!" "Well, Clarence over at the Arcana Division has been drawing plans to make a sort of "Etheric Antenna" that looks similar to a tie but so far all of his test subjects have been horribly..." "Uh uh uh! You started by stating a SOLUTION but followed it up with another PROBLEM. Do you want to go through another corporate value training session?" "NO NO NO! I will see what I can do, sir." Incidentally, when I stumbled across this...thing I couldn't help but think of this game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:I at least thought it was somewhat memorable because of the line "I have a fragging HERD of BASILISKS, idiot." Something about that line is just special. Also, the corp mage has some pretty neat getup. That's true. One of the responses to him is "This is just a job to me, Merlin. You beat my price and you live." which is pretty good too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 20:20
|
|
|
I find it absolutely hilarious that the npc mages in these games are utter morons who doesn't know that there is no such thing as arcane spell failure or anything like that with Shadowrun magic. Put on the heaviest armor you can realistically wear you dumbasses! Hopefully the robes are at least a little bit bulletproof but they drop like civilians. Oh, but you don't need any armor because you can just cast this armor spell and- blablabla my mage will spend that action blasting your buttocks into separate hallways.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
Poil posted:I find it absolutely hilarious that the npc mages in these games are utter morons who doesn't know that there is no such thing as arcane spell failure or anything like that with Shadowrun magic. Put on the heaviest armor you can realistically wear you dumbasses! Hopefully the robes are at least a little bit bulletproof but they drop like civilians. Oh, but you don't need any armor because you can just cast this armor spell and- blablabla my mage will spend that action blasting your buttocks into separate hallways. Those robes ARE very very armored. Anyways, the later games tend to reward you more (karma) for following through on your orders (cuz being professional is super important) when it comes to the moral quandary. There are a one or two exceptions though, usually due to a betrayal of some sort by your client.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
mauman posted:Those robes ARE very very armored. Personally, I think it's a mistake, but I guess that's mirrorshades for you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 02:02
|
|
|
Manic_Misanthrope posted:It's optional and you can only do it at this time so there's a 50% chance you just missed it. I'm also trying to think of how it couldn't be a victory lap like Kanfy demonstrated; at this point in the game you're pretty much at the top of your trees. I had a sub-optimal character when I did it the first time (troll melee) and it was just as easy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 03:12
|
|
|
Keeshhound posted:Personally, I think it's a mistake, but I guess that's mirrorshades for you. It's up the GM I suppose. But most Shadowrun GM's, or at least the ones I've played with(due to being recommended by the books), run the game as that professionalism is key, to the point that goody-two-shoes have their own slang in the universe (and it's not generally a good thing to be called as it affects your rep, which can SERIOUSLY hurt your work opportunities). Furthermore, Shadowrunners are (by definition) thieves and murderers used for corporate warfare. If you can't stomach that you shouldn't BE one. It's generally considered best to follow your contract (even if you find distasteful), unless; A: The Johnson/client fucks you - all bets are off B: Or if the contract involves something mind boggingly EVIL, A good example of both would be lacing a soda truck aimed at Trolls/Orcs with a killing agent when told it would just spoil it (taken from actual shadowrun story). Frankly, if I was the GM I would have punished you for choosing the goody-two-shoes route, and I'm personally glad that the game took that into account in the later games. Mind you, I can think of one situation in the later game that rewards you for following the LETTER of an agreement rather than the SPIRIT, so there's still some leeway. mauman fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Sep 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
Oh man, now I want to play Shadowrun Returns yet again. I usually wind up playing a decker/samurai (with pistols or assault rifles) because I like shooting things. I tried doing a rigger/decker, but gave up halfway when I found out I couldn't equip two drones, a deck and a gun. Maybe it's time to try again, and this time leave the guns at home...
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 03:59
|
|
|
I just find it weird that the one shadowrun had the client lie to you and the whole mess turns out to be for the Azzies. Like, morally ambiguous is fine. But this is just murdering a bunch of dudes so you can shove someone into slavery. It's weird to have the one point where you're not the good guy set you as the villain of the piece. Edit: And yeah. Professionalism is key. Which makes the target not wanting to be extracted feel relevant. Like, client says up front "He doesn't want to work for us, either, but we need him", then this would be a doublecross. With the intel suggesting the opposite, feels like professional ethics give you some wiggle room. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Sep 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 04:32
|
|
|
I mean... he could just be saying it's Aztechnology. They have a terrible rep, and all runners work for Mr. Johnson, anyway. Who's going to check his story?
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
mauman posted:Frankly, if I was the GM I would have punished you for choosing the goody-two-shoes route, and I'm personally glad that the game took that into account in the later games. Oh, no; you should absolutely be punished in game for doing it (client gets pissed, you get worse jobs, someone sends a "gently caress you" squad after you at some point, etc.), I'm just saying I prefer the idea that doing the "right" thing gets you more karma, since it gives you competing resources. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Sep 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 05:13
|
|
|
Poil posted:I find it absolutely hilarious that the npc mages in these games are utter morons who doesn't know that there is no such thing as arcane spell failure or anything like that with Shadowrun magic. Put on the heaviest armor you can realistically wear you dumbasses! Hopefully the robes are at least a little bit bulletproof but they drop like civilians. Oh, but you don't need any armor because you can just cast this armor spell and- blablabla my mage will spend that action blasting your buttocks into separate hallways. Generally speaking, any suit being worn by corporate security is, at the very least, made from bullet resistant fabric. And those robes are usually lined with ballistic plates. A++ ranked Corps can afford to make body armor look good when they don't want the intimidation of obvious combat gear. But yes, professionalism is key to most Shadowrunner teams. Hong Kong gets a little more into personal morals, in a good way, but Dragonfall has a team of experienced runners that generally just wants to get the job done and go home. The only time I can think of where you can decide "gently caress this job and everyone associated with it" and have everyone agree that it's the right choice is when you're extracting a prototype drone from a corp which turns out to be a cyberzombie Stroth fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Sep 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 05:40
|
|
|
Stroth posted:The only time I can think of where you can decide "gently caress this job and everyone associated with it" and have everyone agree that it's the right choice is when you're extracting a prototype drone from a corp which turns out to be a cyberzombie This is actually what I was referring to when I mentioned one contract lets you fulfill the letter of the contract, but not the spirit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 21:05
|
|
|
Stroth posted:Generally speaking, any suit being worn by corporate security is, at the very least, made from bullet resistant fabric. And those robes are usually lined with ballistic plates. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
Stroth posted:But yes, professionalism is key to most Shadowrunner teams. Hong Kong gets a little more into personal morals, in a good way, but Dragonfall has a team of experienced runners that generally just wants to get the job done and go home. The only time I can think of where you can decide "gently caress this job and everyone associated with it" and have everyone agree that it's the right choice is when you're extracting a prototype drone from a corp which turns out to be a cyberzombie Would Luca Duerr's little "audition" count as well? I know that's probably the only time in a videogame where I felt legitimately dirty for doing something and enraged at the rear end in a top hat who tricked me into doing it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
I was sad that there was no "take the dude's money and then turn him over to Aztechnology anyway" option, because being a complete rear end in a top hat is funny 
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
AceOfFlames posted:Would Luca Duerr's little "audition" count as well? I know that's probably the only time in a videogame where I felt legitimately dirty for doing something and enraged at the rear end in a top hat who tricked me into doing it. Well, I admit I forgot about that since I generally skip that one. But given that everyones advice there is "Never get involved with anything to do with the Lodge under any circumstances" yeah probably.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
Stroth posted:Well, I admit I forgot about that since I generally skip that one. But given that everyones advice there is "Never get involved with anything to do with the Lodge under any circumstances" yeah probably. I always do the Lodge missions*. I do skip on the cyberzombie part but as long as you do 2/3 of the bonus objectives you get that sweet, sweet bonus near the end of the game. Honestly, trying to find morality in ones' actions when you spend time stealing, kidnapping, and murdering dozens of guys who are just there as security (and getting a paycheck) rings stupidly hollow in these games. I mean, it's nice to have some standards in Shadowrun, but the bar is EXCEEDINGLY low considering what your job is. *I did mess the mission up once though just to see what happened. RabidWeasel posted:I was sad that there was no "take the dude's money and then turn him over to Aztechnology anyway" option, because being a complete rear end in a top hat is funny Honestly, I'm kinda shocked this wasn't an option(and disappointed). Poil posted:Yes but it doesn't seem like they're wearing anything heavier than armor clothing at the most. Surely the mages know about "geek the mage first" and should invest in some decent protection. A low body stat, poor armor rating and an outfit that screams "Hello I am a mage please kill me quickly before I get off any spells" is not a good long term strategy. Combat armor is still bulky and annoying to deal with and generally doesn't help ones ability to dodge. There's a reason that most runners use armored clothing unless they're going up against something REALLY big (that and stealth). Those robes are just as well armored as your standard armored duster, but with that sleek corporate look that says  .mauman fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Sep 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
I'm not sure if this came up 20+ pages ago, but do the random security goons feel they have a good job in this universe? Or is it like taking entry level retail, its something that lets you eat but gently caress trying to actually resist the shadowrunners? Its a really cool setting that I only learned about through these games (and only bought the games due to an SA LP).
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 02:28
|
|
|
It really depends on the interpretation of the GM or the writer, but it's not as if shadowruns happen every day so it's usually not that exciting. I usually have guards be expected to patrol and report, not provide meaningful resistance to a 9 foot troll throwing a fridge at them. The more powerful and influential the place they're guarding, though, the more likely they are to be expected to stand and fight. Is it a good job? It's probably not bad, I'd expect guards get a few more perks than a similar Corp employee, if only to help maintain high moral and loyalty.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
AmishSpecialForces posted:I'm not sure if this came up 20+ pages ago, but do the random security goons feel they have a good job in this universe? Or is it like taking entry level retail, its something that lets you eat but gently caress trying to actually resist the shadowrunners? Its a really cool setting that I only learned about through these games (and only bought the games due to an SA LP). Base level security is for wageslaves all the same. They're not hurting and they can probably afford decent living (ie they're not slumming it in the Redmond Barrens) and can put food on the table. They're being exploited and they know it, but there's nothing they can do. As for dealing with runners, security officers generally are only there to press the big red "SUMMON HRT" button and then take cover. Generally speaking, runners don't aim to kill indiscriminately. They're in for a job, and if they don't need to kill John Doe, third shift patrolman, they're gonna just tie him up or try to bypass him. Runners will not hesitate to end you if you start unleashing fire on them, but if you make yourself scarce, you'll probably go home.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 03:45
|
|
|
My general impression with corp security (at least on low level places) you run and hide, set off an alarm to call for backup, fire a quick shot ot put up a fight/get cover while scramble away. Because honestly Lone Star autopsy reports have a 'death by superior firepower' box on them - and do you really want to be the one to fill it when you see the troll hauling a gatling gun backed by a street mage that can throw fireballs? you do your job. You don't die for your job. If your job requires you to die for it either you are paid commeasurately and skille denough to do so, or you're a cultist/lunatic of a sort (which is also allowable because hey Renraku has REALLY GOOD LOBOTOMY HIRING PRACTICES)
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 10:11
|
|
|
Also, don't forget that any sane person knows that Runners are amoral douchebag criminals. Some people take a duty to protect others seriously against arrogant gun-toting mercenaries here to do God knows what just because they chose to help whichever complete stranger dangled a couple cred in their face.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
mauman posted:Honestly, trying to find morality in ones' actions when you spend time stealing, kidnapping, and murdering dozens of guys who are just there as security (and getting a paycheck) rings stupidly hollow in these games. Pft, no, I can't be like that. My brain isn't wired like that. I just have a real hard time being evil in games. Like, if my character is evil and I get no choices regarding that (Like, say, Legacy of Kain), I can deal. But if I'm given the option? I always hit light side. With the notable exception of punching assholes. I mean it, I have played PNP RPGs where I go out of my way to reign in the evil players.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 03:55
|
|
|
Siegkrow posted:Pft, no, I can't be like that. My brain isn't wired like that. I just have a real hard time being evil in games. Like, if my character is evil and I get no choices regarding that (Like, say, Legacy of Kain), I can deal. But if I'm given the option? I always hit light side. With the notable exception of punching assholes. I think this goes back to the definition of player characters being "murder hobos", going around the gameworld, killing bad guys and taking their stuff. The thing about Shadowrun is that it is a "grim" setting, so the bad guys you're killing aren't necessarily bad, they're just on the other side (i.e. salarymen for the corporation you're taking down, or a rival shadowrunner gang).
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 11:36
|
|
|
mauman posted:I always do the Lodge missions*. I do skip on the cyberzombie part but as long as you do 2/3 of the bonus objectives you get that sweet, sweet bonus near the end of the game. All the more reason to cling to the standards you can keep. The closer to the bottom the rungs get, the more reason you have to avoid slipping.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 12:13
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:The closer to the bottom the rungs get, the more reason you have to avoid slipping. The closer you are to the botoom, the easier it is to jump the rest of the loving way down.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 13:48
|
|
|
painedforever posted:I think this goes back to the definition of player characters being "murder hobos", going around the gameworld, killing bad guys and taking their stuff. EXACTLY. A Shadowrunner by definition is not a "good guy". Usually you're villain protagonists. At best you're a very dark anti-hero. If you have to play the good guy, then Shadowrun isn't the system for you. Also, I did say that you can keep standards, but the standard is going to be way low considering your day job.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
Some groups only do hooding, all the time. Generally a poor money prospect though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
You could just not accept any job that involves wetwork or taking a van out into the barrens to grab children. It shouldn't be any problem to specialize in things like body guarding or transporting and spending your non-running time helping people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
I'd always been under the impression that the runner who takes wetwork jobs is kinda rare. Like, yeah, they'll kill people in self defense or who get in the way, but the person who will pick up an out right assassination isn't your "average" runner. They're not good guys though, for sure.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
Skypie posted:I'd always been under the impression that the runner who takes wetwork jobs is kinda rare. Like, yeah, they'll kill people in self defense or who get in the way, but the person who will pick up an out right assassination isn't your "average" runner. Definitely takes a certain type, but nuyen is nuyen at the end of the day. Depends on who the person getting hit works for too--it's one thing to steal from a mega, it's another thing to start whacking their people specifically. Not that they care, generally, but taking out a midlevel guy or better will probably affect project timetables and that means there'll be hell to pay. So there's that heat to consider. More likely though, a liquidation job would be against another runner or other annoyance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
Poil posted:Yes but it doesn't seem like they're wearing anything heavier than armor clothing at the most. Surely the mages know about "geek the mage first" and should invest in some decent protection. A low body stat, poor armor rating and an outfit that screams "Hello I am a mage please kill me quickly before I get off any spells" is not a good long term strategy. In the tabletop game the amount of armor you can stack is limited by your body stat. So maybe you can get a mage with a heavy suit of military body armor, but unless your mage is swole as gently caress (which is possible) they're going to be immobile in it, and that's a huge survivability problem in and of itself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
Skypie posted:I'd always been under the impression that the runner who takes wetwork jobs is kinda rare. Like, yeah, they'll kill people in self defense or who get in the way, but the person who will pick up an out right assassination isn't your "average" runner. But really this applies to most RPGs. Sure, the goblins may be designated evil, but you still broke into their home, murdered them and took their stuff. It may say "good" on your character sheet, but if you apply real world standards to it then you're a psychopath.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 07:04 |
|
|
Tiggum posted:Can you really claim "self defence" when you only needed to defend yourself because you broke into a high security building and threatened the guards? At that point it's them claiming self defence, not you. Change "goblin" to "black" or "jew". 
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2017 03:56
|
|
