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Senor P. posted:I'm not going to hold my breath. There was Gupta-gate and he survived that. After the NWC meeting and Mantashe coming out accepting Zuma's firing of Gordhan directly and Ramaphosa seemingly willingly taking the blame for cancelling the Kathrada memorial I think Zuma has shown he is still v much in charge of the party, the letter from the Integrity Committee that was circulating calling on Zuma to resign was also subsequently withdrawn after members of the committee said it was drafted without their consultation. So with Zuma's hands firmly back on the reigns I don't think there's gong to a widespread revolt from ANC MPs come vote time, even with the pressure from the marches. 
kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 22:10
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The war nerd podcast was talking about massacres in the Kasai province in Congo. Anyone in the thread know much about it?
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Apr 11, 2017 04:07
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Possibly a stupid question, apologies. I'm travelling in southern Africa for my first time and now in Mozambique. When I was in South Africa pretty much every white person didn't like Zuma. That's fine,he isn't great. My question is that they with only one exception called him a baboon and several suggested his head was like a butternut. Is there anyway that isn't racist? Being from the UK that sounds massively so, but I might just be hearing things. Intriguing talking to the locals. A farmer in his 60s that I stayed with was fast to assure me that a war was coming in the next couple of years as the whites finally rise up to fight against the Blacks.
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Apr 14, 2017 16:32
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Sad Panda posted:Possibly a stupid question, apologies. I'm travelling in southern Africa for my first time and now in Mozambique. When I was in South Africa pretty much every white person didn't like Zuma. That's fine,he isn't great. My question is that they with only one exception called him a baboon and several suggested his head was like a butternut. Is there anyway that isn't racist? Being from the UK that sounds massively so, but I might just be hearing things. Was the only one exception Breyten Breytenbach? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU
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Apr 14, 2017 16:36
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Sad Panda posted:Possibly a stupid question, apologies. I'm travelling in southern Africa for my first time and now in Mozambique. When I was in South Africa pretty much every white person didn't like Zuma. That's fine,he isn't great. My question is that they with only one exception called him a baboon and several suggested his head was like a butternut. Is there anyway that isn't racist? Being from the UK that sounds massively so, but I might just be hearing things. Calling Zuma a baboon/bobbejaan is 100% massively indefensible racist. Butternut head not - the EFF in particular bring that up and have in the past carried around butternuts on sticks and Malema himself has joked about it, most of the editorial cartoonists in the country exaggerate zuma's head shape for comic effect. Though if they're calling Zuma a baboon in one breath and then mr butternut in the next that's well well dodgy tekz posted:The war nerd podcast was talking about massacres in the Kasai province in Congo. Anyone in the thread know much about it? Here's a massive long read on the insurgency - Kasai is an opposition stronghold, throw in the current tumultuous political situation with Kabila clinging to power, local grievances and the death of a local chief in conflict with the government and you've got yourself a recipe for an insurgency. https://www.crisisgroup.org/africa/central-africa/democratic-republic-congo/kamuina-nsapu-insurgency-adds-dangers-dr-congo
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Apr 15, 2017 20:01
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Sad Panda posted:Possibly a stupid question, apologies. I'm travelling in southern Africa for my first time and now in Mozambique. When I was in South Africa pretty much every white person didn't like Zuma. That's fine,he isn't great. My question is that they with only one exception called him a baboon and several suggested his head was like a butternut. Is there anyway that isn't racist? Being from the UK that sounds massively so, but I might just be hearing things. White privilege is a hell of a drug. Did you try talking to locals who weren't white? I mean, white South Africans are probably about 50/50 on the casual racism, depending on the area, but I think you would have heard more interesting and diverse opinions from a more diverse group of people.
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Apr 17, 2017 18:32
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Oh don't worry, I stayed with non-whites too. It was just that baboon comment was the most commonly heard one. I'm in Mozambique now, where it's lovely meeting South Africans who don't spend the whole time warning me that some bugger is going to kill me or steal my bicycle. I'm sure I'll have more questions about this part of the world as I make my way slowly back to Joburg via the nearby countries maybe as far as Angola. If there are suggestions for reading materials (ones with audiobook preferred as I have so many hours a day to listen) about the area in general or must reads about a place in particular is love to hear.
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Apr 17, 2017 21:07
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I haven't ran into any openly racist whitey in SA, though I'm sure there are plenty of them. Probably depends on who exactly you talk to, as always, but I did speak with a middle-class hostel operator and some workers travelling to install solar panels or some poo poo. "Farmer in his 60s" sounds like it would be the most racist demographic in any country, pretty much.
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Apr 18, 2017 14:59
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Sad Panda posted:Oh don't worry, I stayed with non-whites too. It was just that baboon comment was the most commonly heard one. I'm in Mozambique now, where it's lovely meeting South Africans who don't spend the whole time warning me that some bugger is going to kill me or steal my bicycle. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3664178-dark-continent-my-black-arse He's a bit of a sexist rear end in a top hat, but it's good to read a travelogue written from a black perspective. Also he's from my home town. Long Walk to Freedom (Mandela autobiography) is a great read too.
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Apr 18, 2017 23:04
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Lead out in cuffs posted:http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3664178-dark-continent-my-black-arse Perfect, I'll definitely give that first one a look. Being me (tall, white, British male) colours my travels so much it's great to read from such a perspective. Long Walk to Freedom - abridged or unabridged? Abridged is 6 hours, unabridged 27:40.
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Apr 19, 2017 16:49
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Sad Panda posted:Perfect, I'll definitely give that first one a look. Being me (tall, white, British male) colours my travels so much it's great to read from such a perspective. Get the unabridged. The prose is beautiful and engrossing; I'd imagine that'd translate well to audio.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:44
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Is there any reasons for white South Africans to be so tense against Zuma and black South Africans besides blatant racism?
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Apr 23, 2017 08:13
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Sad Panda posted:Perfect, I'll definitely give that first one a look. Being me (tall, white, British male) colours my travels so much it's great to read from such a perspective. Hey, you're back on the road! Congrats and I'm super jealous. Did you come all the way down East Africa? What are your plans after possibly Angola, heading up the west coast? It's probably paved and traverse-able the whole way to Port Harcourt.
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Apr 23, 2017 15:49
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is there any reasons for white South Africans to be so tense against Zuma and black South Africans besides blatant racism? A quick google suggests that Zuma is viewed unfavorably, albeit less unfavorably, by black South Africans, so while there's probably some racism involved, there are probably legitimate reasons to dislike/criticize Zuma too. I don't know the ins and outs of the situation enough to comment beyond that, though. It's still unacceptable for whites to frame their criticism in racist terms regardless, mind you.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:52
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is there any reasons for white South Africans to be so tense against Zuma and black South Africans besides blatant racism? Zuma is the best more blatant example of corruption, so if you have something against that I guess you can be tense without blaming it on racism. The fact that his own party has done everything just short of actually impeaching Zuma should tell you something. Though they are also a bunch of idiots and believe in party over country so take their condemnations with a grain of salt.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:39
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Sad Panda posted:
Diamonds, Gold and War is a pretty good historical book about the origins of Europeans in South Africa and how the discovery of diamonds and gold pretty much lead to a lot of fighting between the boers and the Brits with a lot of Africans caught in the middle.
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Apr 24, 2017 19:45
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is there any reasons for white South Africans to be so tense against Zuma and black South Africans besides blatant racism? There are legit reasons to be concerned about Zuma, but a lot of the way those are framed from white South Africans comes across as pretty racist. As for being tense about black South Africans, it's basically the same thing as white Americans crossing the street to avoid African Americans (ie straight-up racism). As I said earlier, white privilege (aka white supremacy) is a hell of a drug, and a lot of white South Africans react very poorly to even the suggestion that some of that should be taken away and distributed more fairly. This attitude is quite racist, but it's probably easier to persuade a heroine addict to go cold turkey than to persuade the average super-privileged white South African of that. Basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8AEwiDRYf8 * Obviously this is not universal, but it is pervasive.
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Apr 24, 2017 23:41
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Happy Freedom Day, thread! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Day_(South_Africa)  
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Apr 28, 2017 02:10
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Aliquid posted:Hey, you're back on the road! Congrats and I'm super jealous. Did you come all the way down East Africa? I did not, no. I got a cheap return flight to Joburg from the UK. 7 months for £220 so a loop in SA/Swazi/Moz/Zam/Zim/Botswana/Nam/SA/Lesotho before I have to get to Joburg at the end of October. Congo visa a pain in the arse, Angola would be feasible but only 7 months would make it a rush.
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May 3, 2017 14:00
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39799961quote:Security forces on patrol came across a vehicle blocking the road and, thinking it was being driven by militants, opened fire, police Major Nur Hussein told Reuters news agency. Find the book and throw it down a well.
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May 4, 2017 11:43
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So I hear that a lot of these African countries, including South Africa, have extremely high levels of unemployment. However I also believe that they don't have any kind of welfare system. How exactly do these people survive without money coming in from a job or the government?
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May 8, 2017 03:51
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I hear that a lot of these African countries, including South Africa, have extremely high levels of unemployment. However I also believe that they don't have any kind of welfare system. How exactly do these people survive without money coming in from a job or the government? South Africa has a fairly well-established social welfare system, with extensive (but cheap) government housing being built, basic amounts of electricity and water free, and (very modest) income grants to cover food. Also "these countries" ... "these people" ?
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May 8, 2017 18:25
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Lead out in cuffs posted:
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May 8, 2017 18:36
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lollontee posted:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39799961 I mean, accidents happen. Especially to rising stars with substantial control over a buttload of federal money.
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May 8, 2017 18:43
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Also just a note from that week's worth of groceries photo series: Mali:  Chad:  You can live off rice and beans for a long time if you really have to. It can be a lovely existence, and doesn't speak to the meeting of other needs (e.g. access to education or medical services), but it is "surviving". It's also traditional for families to share resources, even across generations, so one employed person may be feeding 15 other people.
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May 9, 2017 02:52
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I see. I guess being from a highly developed nation we tend to forget how little we can technically survive on.
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May 9, 2017 03:04
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I hear that a lot of these African countries, including South Africa, have extremely high levels of unemployment. However I also believe that they don't have any kind of welfare system. How exactly do these people survive without money coming in from a job or the government? Subsistence farming, corruption, organized crime or general black market activity. It's when all of these options fail that you get starvation, emigration and civil war.
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May 9, 2017 07:54
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-k...SKCN1BC4A5?il=0
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Sep 1, 2017 14:29
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Which is interesting, because international observers said everything seemed OK. So were they wrong? Did the court know something they didn't? Or did they take this step knowing that the opposition would never accept the results, and just have another election in an effort to avoid violence?
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Sep 1, 2017 14:32
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So far the court has just annulled the result as the election violated the constitution but haven't given an indicator as to what those violations actually were. And they won't release those findings for 21 days.
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Sep 1, 2017 14:39
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Mozi posted:Which is interesting, because international observers said everything seemed OK. The case hinged on accusations of irregularities with the electronic transmission of individual polling station results to the central electoral commission (the opposition contested that their servers had been compromised) The court ordered the commission to open their servers to scrutiny and apparently the limited access provided did show some irregularities with missing signatures with stored copies of individual forms from polling stations. So the actual counting and voting is considered generally sound (what observers where monitoring) and the opposition has been contesting that their constituency level counts did not match the final declared numbers. Interestingly the short form of the judgement which was released stressed they found no evidence of illegality on the part of Jubilee but the issue was purely with irregularities with the electoral commissions procedures.
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Sep 1, 2017 15:12
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Mugabe why are you still alive?
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Sep 1, 2017 23:17
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Grouchio posted:Mugabe why are you still alive? The Just-world Hypothesis of national leaders.
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Sep 2, 2017 08:25
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Grouchio posted:Mugabe why are you still alive? The good die young.
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Sep 3, 2017 04:05
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Grouchio posted:Mugabe why are you still alive? As long as those shitbag settlers keep trying to retake their formerly stolen land, he has work to do
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Sep 7, 2017 15:43
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Does anyone know the history of the word baboon in Afrikaans here in SA? I'm just wondering cos when I've mentioned baboon being a word that shouldn't be used for describing others (Zuma in particular) I've been told that it's not racist and it just comes from baboons being stupid animals and is used about people irrespective of their race.
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Sep 20, 2017 07:51
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Sad Panda posted:Does anyone know the history of the word baboon in Afrikaans here in SA? I'm just wondering cos when I've mentioned baboon being a word that shouldn't be used for describing others (Zuma in particular) I've been told that it's not racist and it just comes from baboons being stupid animals and is used about people irrespective of their race. Um the reason why it's not OK for a white person to call a black person an ape has nothing to do with the etymology of the word for baboon in either English or Afrikaans.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:27
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And yes it is racist as gently caress, and has a long history of being racist as gently caress, and the racists who told you that it isn't are morons on top of their racism.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:31
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Lead out in cuffs posted:And yes it is racist as gently caress, and has a long history of being racist as gently caress, and the racists who told you that it isn't are morons on top of their racism. Different words have different connotations in different languages. In the US, there's a long history of racist cartoons and hate speech that portrayed African Americans as apes, and that's why it's a racially charged term today. For instance, dog is a nasty thing to call someone, but there's no racist connotation with it because that's not a line people tried to draw historically. But if they had, and dog was a common slur for black people, calling anyone a dog today would have a whole different meaning. And if there was a society in which dog had a history as a racial slur, I'm sure that society would be appalled at people from another society not recognizing that context. That said, "ape" is a common one across multiple languages, and South Africa and the US have very similar histories re: race. quote:On January 26, 1990, a heartbeat ago in historical terms, a father took his son to a cricket match. During the lunch interval, they paused on a grass bank behind a chain-link fence and watched riot police set dogs on protesters. It's definitely a leftover term from apartheid. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 09:31
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The sa courts have confirmed a couple of times that yes calling a black person a baboon is hate speech and even struck down the defence "gosh gee I didn't know black people thought it was racist!" as being outright unbelievable. Ask your friend if he would call one of his black friends a bobbejaan to their face. The answer will probably be hilarious.
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Sep 20, 2017 10:09
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