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Operation Enduring Health As for planned changes, I like the speed increase for Kapkan but the mine changes don't seem good. Instakill mines with invisible lasers seems a bit too strong, but 40 damage is too low for static placement with no HUD placement indicators; Lesion fits new Kapkan's role better. I would prefer it to have either HUD indicators, free placement on any wall or floor, or 75 damage per mine if the instakill has to go. Blitz's change sounds fun, but I don't see it really helping fix what makes him suck. Fixed recoil sounds terrible, even though I would probably be affected by it the least due to the limited amount of operators I actually play. It is just asking for recoil macros and constant issues between teammates when someone doesn't get a character they are used to. If RNG recoil is unacceptable (I think it's fine, but whatever), a psuedo-fixed recoil system would at least be healthier than straight fixed recoil: -assign a pattern for each gun as in normal fixed recoil -give each gun pattern a range of degree variation (from closest to straight line to the extreme end of the pattern) to pick within per trigger pull -allow the pattern to horizontally mirror at random per trigger pull This still has the issue that people can memorize the pattern to a degree and have an advantage, but eliminates the potential for a full macro/'laser fire' memorization and still solves the issue of a random off-target shot scoring a hit due to RNG style recoil.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:39
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Floodkiller posted:a psuedo-fixed recoil system would at least be healthier than straight fixed recoil: E: For reference, even though it's pointless since Ubisoft is communicating as always. 
cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 19:45
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Floodkiller posted:Operation Enduring Health Agreed on all counts. Sprinting Blitz is going to be hilarious but will just lead to him dying even faster because people will shoot his legs. Fixing Blitz is incredibly simple: 1. Extend his range a little. 2. Give him points when he fully blinds an enemy. That won't fix shields in general, but it will make him useful and fill the gaps in his gadget that lead to him getting killed. All the changes this patch seem incredibly half-baked. (The map changes were also a terrible idea.) I don't think any of them solve the issues they're trying to address and actually create worse issues. I want to go back to the days of claymore and impact patches, when it felt like the developers knew what the gently caress they were doing. Coming next Spring: "We've noticed some inconsistencies and problems with the dynamic level destruction, so we've removed it. We're excited to bring Siege into the era of modern shooters where pro league players know what to expect from the level and can memorize their routes without being surprised by changes."
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Sep 20, 2017 19:48
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Honestly I can't wait for macros to just make my life easier. Great change Ubisoft!
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Sep 20, 2017 19:49
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Lol IQ has only one recoil pattern to learn.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:56
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Kikas posted:Lol IQ has only one recoil pattern to learn. Most buffed operator 2015-2017 (Lol if you think anyone is going to learn more than one gun from any operator)
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Sep 20, 2017 20:02
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Most buffed operator 2015-2017 Lol
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Sep 20, 2017 20:05
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Sep 20, 2017 20:07
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If the devs are doing nothing but asking for feedback on a major change I don't know why you'd be chuffed because a lot of the casual player base doesn't like a fundamental change catered towards pro players and streamers who play the game 40 hours a week. The change is going to happen anyways so just weather the complaints This is ridiculous, but I know this isn't representative of the final changes that will be going into the live game: https://clips.twitch.tv/ArborealAntsyPartridgeVoteNay Macie Jay likes the changes so expect them to stay
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Sep 20, 2017 20:11
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Honestly I doubt it will make that much of a difference except for high level play. It will be an unpopular decision for a while before people adapt to it and no one cares anymore. I personally prefer the current system but oh well.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:13
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Guillermus posted:Recoil patterns make weapons completely useless. Simple up-right patterns will make weapons top-tier instantly over "zig-zag" and so. Hell, even Valve has patched CS:GO weapons several times to match MLSproXXXwhatever requeriments of them being closer to CS 1.6 and more than half of the weapons aren't used at all because they've been bad since years. I'm more prone to systems like BF4 where you have "predictable" recoil (not really patterns) and attachments change how a weapon kicks, not drastically but enough to notice. It also has some spread so you can't shoot two bursts exactly at the same spot while keeping good first shots. CoD games (at least until Black Ops 2) have predictable recoil as in the weapon (and sights) tend to kick to a side or other, some weapons just have a big upwards kick, others will jump from side to side, etc... You can control it, but makes sense and makes every weapon feel unique. Well said. Re: will this kill the game? Probably not but it is scary to start loving with something that could fundamentally change the way the game plays and more importantly feels this late in the game. Also echoing concerns of people using recoil macros... We just got over the hackerpocalypse. What are we going to do when people are using macros that will most likely go undetected in ranked/casual. Or are we choosing to ignore that because it's not gonna happen at a live esports event.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:14
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IceOrb posted:Well said. Its really really funny because the side in favor of this says: "Well darnit RNG has no place in a competitive game." OK fine, add fixed recoil patterns, then I can create a macro on my bloody which is literally undetectable that will give me almost pinpoint accuracy. "Well then add some variance to the fixed recoil pattern". Weird so it sounds like you do want RNG in your weapons. Make up your mind. Either you want some level of RNG in which point fixed recoil is idiotic. Or you want none and you want macros to rule the game.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:17
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IceOrb posted:Well said. Aimbots/Wallhacks being loaded into pro players mice happened more than you think at cs:go lans. Undetectable recoil macros are going to be mandatory unless the people running the siege events ban players from using their own keyboards/mice.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:17
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The poo poo that stinks the most is that they're making this change to pander to people that care about CS/esports, no one else wants this change. To reiterate a point I've made before, changing your game to be more like CS is not going to make people stop playing CS in favour of your game, it's just going to piss off the people that already play your game. This is the sort of poo poo that came up with Red Orchestra 2, where they tried to cater to CoD players only to neuter their potential. Now while that poo poo happened early in RO2's development, and other factors contributed to no one playing it anymore (fracturing player base, etc), Siege making this sort of move so late in development is just as, if not more baffling.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:26
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Recoil macros are really awkward to use and, as a consequence, barely a nuisance in the same CS:GO. Overwatch sure does help, but almost anyone above bottom-feeder ranks is able to land their shots well enough. It will be even easier in this game, where you just need to land a single headhshot, so good luck with your fixed-length macros for spray patterns I guess. Moreover, locking yourself into trash tier mice like Bloody.  All the elite hacking in CS:GO that happens usually is soft-lock aimbot, that usually kicks in once you land your shot. Speaking of them though, there have been far funnier delivery methods than mouse/keyboard storage - Source engine used to have a vulnerability allowing code execution through map files, later through ragdolls, so you could get yourself "fixed" just in a warmup map, if you were given map, or later server, choice. Knifegrab posted:Its really really funny because the side in favor of this says: "Well darnit RNG has no place in a competitive game." OK fine, add fixed recoil patterns, then I can create a macro on my bloody which is literally undetectable that will give me almost pinpoint accuracy.  Stop being intentionally obtuse.Penpal posted:If the devs are doing nothing but asking for feedback on a major change I don't know why you'd be chuffed because a lot of the casual player base doesn't like a fundamental change catered towards pro players and streamers who play the game 40 hours a week. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 20:30
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Yeah I chose that figure because it's essentially saying I don't play the game like a full-time job. I'm not a teenager so I don't invest my all spare time into video games, they're essentially my primary way of hanging out with the buds who have moved away.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:49
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Recoil macros are really awkward to use and, as a consequence, barely a nuisance in the same CS:GO. Overwatch sure does help, but almost anyone above bottom-feeder ranks is able to land their shots well enough. It will be even easier in this game, where you just need to land a single headhshot, so good luck with your fixed-length macros for spray patterns I guess. Moreover, locking yourself into trash tier mice like Bloody. Yeah those mouse macros are so awkward to use. When I hold down full auto I don't experience any recoil. Boy that sure is awkward to use. Btw cinci have you considered just, ya know, playing CS:GO? That way you can have your terrible dated gunplay mechanics and the rest of us can actually enjoy Siege? Knifegrab fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 20:52
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Knifegrab posted:Yeah those mouse macros are so awkward to use. When I hold down full auto I don't experience any recoil. Boy that sure is awkward to use. Usually with macros you have to select which gun's recoil pattern you're using (since they're not universal usually) but you could just do that in planning stage. That the guns have set recoil patterns for like half a dozen guns in a group is gonna make it a lot easier for people to macro.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:56
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Party Plane Jones posted:Usually with macros you have to select which gun's recoil pattern you're using (since they're not universal usually) but you could just do that in planning stage. That the guns have set recoil patterns for like half a dozen guns in a group is gonna make it a lot easier for people to macro. Yeah pretty much. With bloody software I would have the macro presets up and open on my second monitor. Then after I've locked in an operator I will just select one of the six macros I need. Then I'd have a thumb button on my mouse than enables/disables it. As soon as the round starts and I am guns out, I flip it on. Note I use extensive macros for certain RTS's and things the like. I also use Macros to aid me when doing things in VR. I do not use macros in competitive games cause that is lame but I am familiar enough with them to know how easy they are to use.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:00
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Knifegrab posted:Yeah those mouse macros are so awkward to use. When I hold down full auto I don't experience any recoil. Boy that sure is awkward to use.  I'm playing Siege because my both me and friends got bored of CS:GO, and Siege is not too shabby of an alternative for CS:GO. I might be tempted to go back once the dd2 rework is done, but that's unlikely since there's not much of a collective interest in playing it, and I seldom play team multiplayer games alone.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:03
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Can't wait for your trip report with macros. How thick can you be? Watch this: https://clips.twitch.tv/ArborealAntsyPartridgeVoteNay If a person can compensate for his recoil that easily, imagine a computer program that has no variance. cinci zoo sniper posted:
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Sep 20, 2017 21:06
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im glad for the recoil changes cause now it means bucks assault rifle won't have 10x the recoil of every other gun.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:09
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Knifegrab posted:How thick can you be? if you think my point of laughter is the ability/inability of a macro to compensate recoil as such, especially if there won't be any variance in the final implementation.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:09
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Yo just gonna throw out that what's currently on the TTS probably isn't final and they'll probably re-add bullet spread. They're just keeping it basic for the sake of testing. Fixed recoil patterns are still dumb though.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:11
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Jehde posted:Yo just gonna throw out that what's currently on the TTS probably isn't final and they'll probably re-add bullet spread. They're just keeping it basic for the sake of testing. Unless they add so much variance that the "fixed" pattern effectively goes away, in which case yay, macros will still hugely hugely help you stay center on target.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:13
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cinci zoo sniper posted:To be honest, I don't see how all this contradicts having a recoil system that does not allow 3rd shot to randomly instakill a person somewhere on the screen. I have no idea why people keep saying this as if recoil changes will change this. That's a consequence of one-shot headshots and penetration, not recoil. Full auto sprays will still drive into heads from people with slower/poorer aim aiming a little lower-right of their target with the xi, or at some poor fucker in the room behind the target. Like all this does is favor memorization over reaction. If that's something you think should be more emphasized, then okay cool that's a fair position to have, but don't act like it's anything else. Dog Fat Man Chaser fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 21:16
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Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:I have no idea why people keep saying this as if recoil changes will change this. That's a consequence of one-shot headshots and penetration, not recoil. Full auto sprays will still drive into heads from people with slower/poorer aim aiming a little lower-right of their target with the xi. If you read my earlier posts, I don't care about recoil mechanics so long as they are tight, and that is the likely stance of other people content with the upcoming change.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:23
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It raises an interesting point, is there a threshold where a developer can change the core mechanics of a game without it being slimy? Like I bought and play Siege specifically for its gunplay and fun operators. If this change goes live in its state I will probably start playing something else, Destiny 2 or finally play one of my millions of singleplayer games. Like if I bought destiny 2, and then a year after release they are like "Oh btw weapons are no longer hitscan, they are all projectiles and we've removed ADSing from the game." I cannot imagine that would go over well. And while this change isn't that drastic it is quite significant to the core mechanics of siege.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:23
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Siege devs became slimy when Operation gently caress Poland happened.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:29
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The gist of complaints is that bullets shouldn't be able to land on anything in central two quarters of the screen if you commit to half-assed full auto, not that they shouldn't be able to drive into heads as such. This doesn't fix that.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:29
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Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:This doesn't fix that. This does, bullets take entirely predictable path in absence of external factors, unless there's a variance on the scale exceeding target. There's no random chance my 4th bullet will hit a meter above target despite recoil control.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:32
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Have you ever considered that having bullets go in random directions actually adds to the gameplay experience? I just can't fathom why anyone would want to remove recoil management. Unless that person just doesn't like tacticool shootmanning and just wants to repetitively swipe down and right to activate their skinner box, in which case Siege probably isn't the type of game for you.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:12
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Only shoot people in the head with a single shot and/or lay under windows and use your knife Human Frost Trap style. I dont see an issue with recoil on those options.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:24
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Or play on console for heck's sake
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Sep 20, 2017 23:49
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Tons of console controllers that can do the same thing
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Sep 21, 2017 00:14
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Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:This doesn't fix that. Yeah honestly that's a nonexistent problem to begin with and the idea that fixed recoil will solve it is laughable. Recoil already follows a semi-predictable pattern; it's explicitly shown to you in a heat map when you buy attachments for your gun.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:40
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do you guys really lay down full mags worth of automatic fire? maybe i'm just some stupid newbie but i just fire 5 or 6 rounds per burst peeking from behind cover and get my kills that way are you guys really mad about a recoil thing or is this more about ethics in videogame journalism? Tumble fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 00:44
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If I know somebody is on the other side of a pen-able wall and don't know exactly where, yeah. Dump while generally dragging the bullets around until somewhere in that stream you should get a yell of pain to refocus on. Most people use something like 1/20th of their ammo in a round, you've got the bullets, most things can be shot through, make a few guesses, make life uncomfortable for someone camping, costs nothing if they already know you're there.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:48
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Bullet patterns as consistant as they are in the ADS seem like theyll be really easy to macro. The videos Ive seen have no spread or variation in the pattern when ADSing, just nice predictable lines. I'm not sold on the Kapkan changes. The 2/2 change and the removal of the laser is a godsend and definitely something he needed but doing 40 damage seems underwhelming considering how many counters they have, how predictable they can be, and the number of limitations on where they can be placed. Maybe have them put the target in DBNO like Frosts traps. Blitz changes own bones.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:52
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^e I think dbno would be way too much like frost traps. I like the idea that the kapkan traps can still be instantly lethal a lot, although I guess maybe just 40 won't be enough. I don't think it'll be so bad like people are saying though; having 40 or less health in the later part of a round isn't especially rare, so if kapkans adapt to that it could work out. Maybe make it 50 so it can instantly get someone that's been downed and revived. Yeah once you get more used to the destruction you find yourself wanting to use it to your advantage a lot. Unless I get blapped without seeing it coming (which tbf happens a lot) I think rounds where I'd only use 1/20th of my ammo are vanishingly rare. That's what, like a quarter of a clip? Also times where you, you know, miss, and have to shoot more than one burst. Happens to most of us. Koramei fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 00:52
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