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PUN IS HER
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Sep 20, 2017 22:36
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zoux posted:Official Punisher trailer Neat. Galvanik posted:What, like, ever? It just seems like Frank Castle versus corrupt cop would be something that comes up given who he is. It's a personal rule the character has had since his inception, basically as an attempt to make his vigilantism easier to root for, and also partially explain why he doesn't just get shot on sight by some off-duty cops. Even in Garth Ennis' extremely violent and R-rated MAX series, the worst thing he does to a very dirty cop is send him someplace where he's very likely to get killed. The only instances of Punisher outright killing cops I know of are: In Jason Aaron's Punisher MAX, which follows Ennis' run, he tortures a cop on kingpin's payroll to death moments after telling himself he really shouldn't. It's part of a storyline about Frank losing control that ultimately ends in his death. It's acknowledged as him crossing a line he never has before. In a What If where Frank became a policeman upon returning from Vietnam, his family is killed by dirty cops. He becomes the Punisher, but with a focus on institutional corruption. He kills dirty cops and politicians as well as more routine criminals, and always leaves evidence he compiled of their crimes next to their bodies. In the Ultimate Marvel universe, Punisher has a similar origin as a cop who lost his family to corrupt officers. He's introduced in Ultimate Spider-man when he shoots a cop right through her loving head in broad daylight with a sniper rifle. Punisher's had a lot of writers over the years so it's possible some rando who only wrote 3 issues had him shoot a cop one time, but as far as I know that rule of not killing cops has been mostly consistent through all his portrayals, and is a big part of why some cops put Punisher logos on their patrol cars. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 23:01
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I'm completely turned around on Marvel Netflix. When they first announced I was most looking forward to Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Jessica would be generic detective stuff that ties them all together and Daredevil was added because people have actually heard of Daredevil. Instead Daredevil came out real strong, Jessica has next to nothing to do with the others and the most serious story while Luke and Danny were disappointing. Defenders was forgettable and now here I am ridiculously excited for a Punisher TV show.
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Sep 20, 2017 23:36
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I objectively know Luke Cage isn't as good as Jessica Jones or Daredevil S1 but I still enjoyed it more.
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Sep 21, 2017 00:13
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Luke Cage is the absolute poo poo in spite of Diamondback. The Method Man scenes are gold.
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Sep 21, 2017 01:00
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Lurdiak posted:I objectively know Luke Cage isn't as good as Jessica Jones or Daredevil S1 but I still enjoyed it more. Ultimately I think Luke Cage is up there with DD season 2 as being extremely frustrating because the first half is really, really good but it kinda loses what made it good in the second half. Iron Fist doesn't annoy me in the same way because I thought it was crap from the very start.
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Sep 21, 2017 01:07
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JBP posted:Luke Cage is the absolute poo poo in spite of Diamondback. The Method Man scenes are gold. Part of the problem is that the first half is so good, and Mahershala Ali is such a better villain than Diamond Back, so it suffers with the comparison. The Hail to the Chief scene is up there with anything in the MCU.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:24
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zoux posted:The Hail to the Chief scene is up there with anything in the MCU.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niqZnjPvwv0
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Sep 21, 2017 02:40
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zoux posted:Part of the problem is that the first half is so good, and Mahershala Ali is such a better villain than Diamond Back, so it suffers with the comparison. The worst part is that Erik LaRay Harvey is, in my opinion, really drat good as Diamondback, it's just that the character is written all over the place. They can't decide if he's a cold and calculating crimelord who's the ruthless puppet-master behind Cottonmouth, of if he's a crazy rear end in a top hat bent on revenge against Luke at any cost. So he ends up seeming like he's really bad at both.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:50
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Lurdiak posted:The worst part is that Erik LaRay Harvey is, in my opinion, really drat good as Diamondback, it's just that the character is written all over the place. They can't decide if he's a cold and calculating crimelord who's the ruthless puppet-master behind Cottonmouth, of if he's a crazy rear end in a top hat bent on revenge against Luke at any cost. So he ends up seeming like he's really bad at both. Yeah, I'd say that's probably my biggest complaint. He's written all over the place. Honestly, if they had spent the entire season showing his descent into madness I think it might have worked better. Instead we don't really meet him until he's already showing cracks. There were some good beats with him. That crazy marked up bible he carried around was a good touch, I thought. Oh, and that loving super suit. Literally any other look than Public School Janitor Jumpsuit would have been better. I was teetering on edge for the back half, and that loving suit was the bird that landed on my hood sending me over.
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Sep 21, 2017 03:10
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Yeah if we'd seen Diamondback when he was still mostly sane it would've felt like an arc instead of a contradiction. Like you're supposed to infer that stuff from how Shades talks about him vs how he reacts when he sees him acting all gonzo, but it's not really enough. I didn't mind how stupid the suit looked because it made me laugh, but that fight was straight up retarded. They had Diamondback make a big show of his suit absorbing the kinetic impact of Luke's punches, complete with like 3 zoom ins on the generator on his back, and at no point does Luke think "Maybe I should hit that thing instead of his suit".
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Sep 21, 2017 03:15
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Lurdiak posted:at no point does Luke think "Maybe I should hit that thing instead of his suit". He clearly does think that, but deliberately chooses not to. Pay attention to the flashbacks. Luke is consciously choosing to fight the man, not the suit.
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Sep 21, 2017 03:45
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This whole thing makes me miss Ali bc he's so great. rip Cottonmouth, you were the real MVP.
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Sep 21, 2017 04:06
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Proteus Jones posted:Honestly, if they had spent the entire season showing his descent into madness I think it might have worked better. Instead we don't really meet him until he's already showing cracks. Basically they should've taken more lessons from Kingpin.
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Sep 21, 2017 04:25
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The long burn villain in Luke Cage is Mariah, and they did a great job with her arc
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Sep 21, 2017 04:33
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Lurdiak posted:Neat. I think it's because they want to kill people, and think of the Punisher as a hero. He doesn't kill cops because unlike the real world, cops in fiction are good people doing their best to help people.
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Sep 21, 2017 06:02
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I hope The Punisher shoots a bunch of folks
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Sep 21, 2017 06:13
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Zzulu posted:I hope The Punisher shoots a bunch of folks with a minigun and, later, a tank or helicopter gunship. FTFY.
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Sep 21, 2017 06:41
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Slime posted:Ultimately I think Luke Cage is up there with DD season 2 as being extremely frustrating because the first half is really, really good but it kinda loses what made it good in the second half. Iron Fist is quite decent if you think of the Mitchums as the main characters and Danny as a side character who is suffering from asperger's.
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Sep 21, 2017 06:42
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enraged_camel posted:Iron Fist is quite decent if you think of the Mitchums as the main characters and Danny as a side character who is suffering from asperger's. David Wenham is always great to watch and his starring role in the deceptively titled television program "Iron Fist" is unfairly maligned.
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Sep 21, 2017 07:40
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I've watched the Punisher trailer like 5 times and I can't get over how perfectly they sync the action to the music. 'One' is a song about a severely injured war veteran constantly reliving the war in his head, which is a great analogy to Frank's PTSD. I know I've seen the guy who plays Micro before but I can't place where. sticklefifer fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 08:09
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sticklefifer posted:I know I've seen the guy who plays Micro before but I can't place where. He played one of the infected guys on TNT's The Last Ship.
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Sep 21, 2017 13:47
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Lurdiak posted:I objectively know Luke Cage isn't as good as Jessica Jones or Daredevil S1 but I still enjoyed it more. This is where I'm at, and yeah, I agree with most of the critiques below (though I don't hate Diamondback, he was just a comparative letdown). It's absolutely the series I enjoyed the most even if it didn't quite stick the landing. Jessica Jones is probably objectively the best one (and Jessica's a personal favorite character). Really what gives Cage an edge ahead of it for me is the music.
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Sep 21, 2017 14:20
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docbeard posted:Jessica Jones is probably objectively the best one (and Jessica's a personal favorite character). Really what gives Cage an edge ahead of it for me is the music. I think it was more than the music (though that helped). It was a tone the whole show had. It was a show about African Americans by African Americans and it showed. That lent it a real authenticity and sincerity. Although the part about Harlem rooting for the police to hunt down Luke was a weird mis-step.
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Sep 21, 2017 14:26
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LoL the only OBJECTIVE truth about JJ is "It stars a woman and focuses on women's issues". Daredevil (S1) has infinitely better action and a stronger supporting cast. I agree with the above sentiments because Luke Cage is just a better character than either DD or JJ. "Waaah I'm sad I have super powers and the city is a shithole and every night I'm haunted by horrible visions of my past and my trauma and..." *DOPE HIP HOP BEAT* Hi everyone it's your friend, Luke! I love my community and I'm just here to help. I like boning, Def Jam, sweeping up debris and quizzically staring at people when they explain the plot up until now, it's me, Good Guy Luke." The overwhelming conceit that "super-powers" are a curse is so played out because those stories have no weight in a US society where there are basically no consequences for anyone in authority. If cops can get away with literal murder and politicians can do whatever they want and spend money like it's nothing and they never have to enact legislation because "LoL-itics" then why are all these superheroes moping around, whose gonna stop you? Luke Cage uses his powers whenever he wants because he understands that wasting your powers is the greatest curse, he could be helping people. I just read somewhere "Luke Cage drops off sharply when it stops being a black show and starts to behave like every other Netflix Marvel property, and losing the backdrop of the club and its black music when Cottonmouth dies is the giant nail in that coffin, and then it's like one episode later when magic bullets etc happen." The culture on display takes a sharp nosedive as the comic book plot ramps up, and DDS2 does the same dramatic tonal shift because everything that happens to Frank is very real and visceral but the faceless army of plot ninjas holds no weight at all so everyone stops caring. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 14:31
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Proteus Jones posted:I think it was more than the music (though that helped). It was a tone the whole show had. It was a show about African Americans by African Americans and it showed. That lent it a real authenticity and sincerity. Did that really happen? Mariah was trying to make it happen and there was that scene where Trish is arguing with someone who wants it to happen. But I feel like the big message sent was that the cops were pissing everyone off by roughing up people and then they did that thing where everyone was wearing a hoodie. It felt like Trish's audience and Mariah were a "different neighborhood" but "the people" were with Luke.
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Sep 21, 2017 14:34
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STAC Goat posted:Did that really happen? Mariah was trying to make it happen and there was that scene where Trish is arguing with someone who wants it to happen. But I feel like the big message sent was that the cops were pissing everyone off by roughing up people and then they did that thing where everyone was wearing a hoodie. It felt like Trish's audience and Mariah were a "different neighborhood" but "the people" were with Luke. Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't there that outdoor rally or press conference or some poo poo where Luke was branded as a cop killer. It seemed like the community had turned or at least become ambivalent at that point. I admit my attention started to drift on the back half of the season.
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Sep 21, 2017 14:38
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My memory is that Mariah did a big showy press speech calling Luke out as a cop killer and menace and them there was the rally at Harlem's Paradise that turned into a shoot out. But that all seemed organized by Mariah and Diamondback and the actual neighborhood tone seemed to be on Luke's side. I think they played up a little bit of uncertainty after the video of him attacking the cops came out and the cops were blaming everything on him, but I don't think they ever showed the neighborhood turning on him, just the cops. Then after the shoot out Misty's boss says she believes Luke is innocent and then we get the Method Man/hoodie stuff. So I think it was less "Harlem turns on Luke" and more "Mariah and the cops are pushing hard and Luke's not here to defend himself".
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Sep 21, 2017 14:45
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DrNutt posted:I think it's because they want to kill people, and think of the Punisher as a hero. He doesn't kill cops because unlike the real world, cops in fiction are good people doing their best to help people. Yes, obviously. I'm just saying if the fictional character was a cop killa, they might not idolize him so much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg7-lxZfZPc
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Sep 21, 2017 15:29
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Lurdiak posted:The worst part is that Erik LaRay Harvey is, in my opinion, really drat good as Diamondback, it's just that the character is written all over the place. They can't decide if he's a cold and calculating crimelord who's the ruthless puppet-master behind Cottonmouth, of if he's a crazy rear end in a top hat bent on revenge against Luke at any cost. So he ends up seeming like he's really bad at both. Yeah I loved his role in Boardwalk Empire, he was really menacing and intimidating, so I was very disappointed with the role they gave him. That whole back half is just a mess, I actually never finished it. The last scene I watched was Misty and that semi-corrupt lieutenant having this weird conversation in the back of an ambulance I couldn't follow and I was like, nah. It's like once they started to go full comicbook it went off the rails. I'm not a stickler for scientific accuracy in comics by any means, but everything that happened in the barn was just too much.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:50
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It would be weird for Punisher to shy away from that when NYC's corrupt police force has WAY WAY more to do with his family's death than the loving Hand. Also lol in the trailer at "I'll just execute you in my military fatigues, despite them functioning in completely the opposite intended manner as I skulk about your perrywinkle-blue suburban home. Where does Frank live with a house like that? The nicest part of Queens?
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Sep 21, 2017 15:50
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Bust Rodd posted:Also lol in the trailer at "I'll just execute you in my military fatigues, despite them functioning in completely the opposite intended manner as I skulk about your perrywinkle-blue suburban home. We already know from Daredevil that Castle's family was killed at the merry-go-round. The guy shooting his wife is almost certainly Frank having a nightmare.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:06
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On the plus side, Frank's current existence means that he won't accidentally trip into bed with Claire.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:10
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Timby posted:We already know from Daredevil that Castle's family was killed at the merry-go-round. The guy shooting his wife is almost certainly Frank having a nightmare. And we know that Frank did live in a very nice, respectable suburban home before then. Frank burns down the house with all the memories in it when he embraces the Punisher persona.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:11
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sticklefifer posted:I've watched the Punisher trailer like 5 times and I can't get over how perfectly they sync the action to the music. 'One' is a song about a severely injured war veteran constantly reliving the war in his head, which is a great analogy to Frank's PTSD. "One" is a song based on a movie based on a novel about a soldier who wakes up to near total sensorial silence and slowly, tortuously, over the course of the story pieces together that his limbs, his face, and everything below his waist have been blown off and he is being kept alive on orders from high up as a scientific and medical experiment/demonstration of prowess. So, uh...
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Sep 21, 2017 17:33
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RareAcumen posted:On the plus side, Frank's current existence means that he won't accidentally trip into bed with Claire. I'm still upset she didn't sleep with Jessica in Defenders.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:46
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Lurdiak posted:I'm still upset she didn't sleep with Jessica in Defenders. Same. Or Colleen. Still waiting for Colleen and Misty to get their due. Give me Daughters of the Dragon!! I agree with the consensus that I enjoyed Luke cage more, even though I know it dropped sharply. The vibe and atmosphere was just perfect. It also came out at the perfect time. I know some people thought the "Bulletproof black guy" promotions was kinda cheesy or overwrought but gently caress, it was really great to see. It was something I've been waiting for since I was a kid, and I ate it up. I love that they marketed it as a show that's embracing it's blackness. I really felt the heartbeat of Harlem, it felt more real than the settings in the other shows. I love that Misty slept with Luke and didn't give a gently caress and there was no love triangle drama. I am worried about how/if they do Misty/Danny because they are my favorite Marvel couple but Misty is like one of the most likeable characters and Danny is the loving woooorst.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:53
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Lurdiak posted:I'm still upset she didn't sleep with Jessica in Defenders. Same but learning from these threads that it didn't happen in Jessica Jones either.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:54
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Habibi posted:"One" is a song based on a movie based on a novel about a soldier who wakes up to near total sensorial silence and slowly, tortuously, over the course of the story pieces together that his limbs, his face, and everything below his waist have been blown off and he is being kept alive on orders from high up as a scientific and medical experiment/demonstration of prowess. At least the tone and lyrics have a similar theme to Punisher. Better than a car company using "Born in the USA" over truck footage.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:57
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Koalas March posted:I agree with the consensus that I enjoyed Luke cage more, even though I know it dropped sharply. The vibe and atmosphere was just perfect. It also came out at the perfect time. I know some people thought the "Bulletproof black guy" promotions was kinda cheesy or overwrought but gently caress, it was really great to see. It was something I've been waiting for since I was a kid, and I ate it up. I love that they marketed it as a show that's embracing it's blackness. I really felt the heartbeat of Harlem, it felt more real than the settings in the other shows. I love that Misty slept with Luke and didn't give a gently caress and there was no love triangle drama. I just wish they'd leaned a bit more into social commentary. There were some pretty blatant moments, but the show seemed afraid to just come out and say words like "institutionalized racism".
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Sep 21, 2017 17:59
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