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twice burned ice posted:This is a dumb question, and I'm sorry for asking it. It's an attempt to reassure themselves and their white supporters that they're not racist, because racist is the worst thing you can call a white person.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:08
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Shout it from the mountaintops with me, D&D: CRIME IS DECLINING AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS YOU STUPID gently caress
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Sep 22, 2017 02:10
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oh for fucks sake Just lol if your immediate reaction to this is anything other than rolling your eyes so hard you give yourself a headache
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Sep 22, 2017 02:11
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Flavahbeast posted:transgender troops? in my bathroom? Roy Moore, proud defender of the Third Amendment
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Sep 22, 2017 02:17
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DC Murderverse posted:Shout it from the mountaintops with me, D&D: No. No it hasn't. 
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Sep 22, 2017 02:18
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Is the fat acceptance movement inherently bourgeois decadence or should it be part of a more inclusive new-left civil rights platform? Kelli Jean Drinkwater is leading an effort to include protections for bigger bodies in the Democratic Party Platform. These include vows to not allow health insurance companies to charge larger people more or require them to lose weight or enroll in wellness programs to receive discounts. Additionally, publicly funded transportation networks such as the MTA, National Airlines, or Amtrak would have to provide seating that can fit a variety of body types. "Fat bodies are inherently political, and unapologetic fat bodies can blow people's minds." she says. https://www.ted.com/talks/kelli_jea...social%20issues Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 02:19
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DC Murderverse posted:Shout it from the mountaintops with me, D&D: I think you mean reported crime, look at all the unreported crime especially in undocumented immigrant heavy areas.  because undocumented immigrants were basically the perfect victims even before the Age of Trump because what're you gonna do, go to the cops?
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Sep 22, 2017 02:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Is the fat acceptance movement inherently bourgeois decadence or should it be part of a more inclusive new-left civil rights platform? Yes and no, respectively, in a true socialist state the revolutionary consciousness of the people would lead to everyone pursuing, and being empowered to pursue, peak physical fitness in order to better contribute to society. 
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Sep 22, 2017 02:22
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I think you mean reported crime, look at all the unreported crime especially in undocumented immigrant heavy areas. Look at all this loving undocumented illegal crime. it needs to go back from where it came from: Crime Land
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Sep 22, 2017 02:25
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Is the fat acceptance movement inherently bourgeois decadence or should it be part of a more inclusive new-left civil rights platform? There's a difference between "don't be lovely to overweight people," which for all you know can be due to factors outside of their control, such as health care, medication, food deserts, etc. - and these are often political problems that can be solved. With a universal healthcare program you can include a provision for the Democrats' favorite policy - tax credits - for say, joining a gym and attending regularly. Or seeing a nutritionist. On the other hand, yes, there's people to make fun of... until you realize it's often a coping mechanism for dealing with a cruel society where people need to feel better about themselves by lashing out at someone else.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:25
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If I understand insurance and medical rates correctly, which I dont, fat people jack up rates for everyone else. Like smoking
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Sep 22, 2017 02:28
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Regarding this whole leftist racism thing, there are two important separate issues that bear addressing. The first is the issue of racism on the left, and the second is the opinion of black Americans towards Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. 1. The main issue with this first point is that literally every American political faction has a problem with race/racism, but among those the radical left is objectively the least bad. Like, this is a thing that is factual; the left has literally always been superior on race issues compared with mainstream liberals/Democrats, and Sanders primary voters statistically poll as holding less racist opinions*. I believe that it is completely reasonable to question the left on issues of race (i.e. "How do you plan on dealing with X problem?") or to call them out if they say someone that is problematic, but the problem is that there has been a disproportionate focus on the left relative to mainstream liberals when it comes to racism, which is extremely dishonest (not to mention downright counterfactual). Calling out problematic things people on the left say makes sense - for example if someone says that racism is just a manifestation of classism, they should be called out - but there is a huge amount of vague insinuations targeted at people solely based on identifying as leftist/socialist and unrelated to any specific thing they've said. 2. The other issue is that the general idea of "Hillary Clinton is the black candidate (in the sense of being the one chosen by black Americans)" is very misleading in a couple ways. The first is that there's usually an implication by the people saying this that black people are also generally opposed to (or at least actively find fault with) Bernie Sanders and the radical left. This isn't true; both candidates held very high approval among black Americans. The second is that Bernie Sanders currently enjoys higher approval among black Americans than Hillary Clinton. Now, you could respond "well, that's because Hillary Clinton just lost an election", and you would be 100% correct in doing so. The key point illustrated by this change is that support for a candidate does not necessarily imply some objective judgement of how good they are relative to a particular demographic or issue, particularly when the difference is just "both candidates are liked, with one being liked a little more." In the same way as Hillary's current lower approval is influenced by her election loss, Sanders' lower approval during the primary was also influenced by various factors unrelated to policy/politics, such as his lower name recognition. At the end of the day, neither of these candidates were ever "rejected" by most black Americans. And regardless, Sanders is currently the most well liked politician by all major ethnic demographics, so painting him and/or the left as in opposition to black Americans in the here and now is completely absurd. (There's also the issue of the great discrepancy in black primary voting based on age demographic, with younger black voters being slightly more in favor of Sanders than Clinton, but I imagine most people are already aware of this point.) Anyways, I think everything I said above is pretty reasonable. In particular, I feel like it can't really be denied that the disproportionate focus on racism on the left is heavily politically motivated and toxic in various ways (for one, the whole "white Bernie Bro" narrative is effectively erasure of leftist PoC). As mentioned before, it is completely reasonable to hold leftists' - or any other political groups' - feet to the fire. But it is very strange to do so in a way that specifically implicates leftists as uniquely problematic relative to mainstream Democrats. *In the interest of honesty, this is likely due to the fact that Sanders' support is so heavily tilted towards young Americans, and young Americans tend to be less racist than older Americans. But that still doesn't change the general point that, regardless of the reason, they're still less racist. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 02:32
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IIRC, black voters followed the trend of everyone else. Olds for Hillary, youth for Sanders
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Sep 22, 2017 02:36
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Trabisnikof posted:I was looking for some good online texts on this, but sadly most of it is still offline or a bunch of theory online. Also my search terms may be off because I'm too lazy to go look find my textbooks. There are lots of methods to develop social systems and a number of them start from perfection rather than reality. One method I was trained, the specific name escapes me, is designed for improving social systems at a small group level, say a workplace or a family or even for an individual. So once you have something that you have both your existing leadership and stakeholders agree should change you can get everyone together in a room and use this process (roughly): Thanks for this. I teach at a highly mission-oriented prep school and this is the sort of meta-talk they get off on. I'll run the basics of it by my STEM team and maybe we can implement.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:41
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:IIRC, black voters followed the trend of everyone else. Olds for Hillary, youth for Sanders Nah. Sanders lost the under 35 black vote too. He just lost it by 4 points instead of the 93 points he lost the 65+ black vote.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:43
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Trump administration's CMS numbers on the impact of Graham-Cassidy has been partially released. Even they couldn't polish this turd that well. Kind of important, as Murkowski is relying on these numbers to "inform her decision." If she's looking for cover, this might make it a little more awkward. That said. Hope is a lie. https://www.axios.com/new-estimate-shows-key-holdouts-states-lose-funding-under-graham-cassidy-2488106027.html
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Sep 22, 2017 03:19
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twice burned ice posted:This is a dumb question, and I'm sorry for asking it. Republicans do not fundamentally understand anything about race is why. They all think being black is absolutely no different from being white
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Sep 22, 2017 03:22
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Raskolnikov38 posted:They all think being black is absolutely no different from being white Actually, they think that being black is easier because you have affirmative action and can get double welfare checks and free Obamaphones, etc.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:34
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Taerkar posted:Turns out that I was the real racist all along. Going to quote myself from literally the first page of (new) USPOL: Pembroke Fuse posted:Just to pre-empt every argument we're going to have:
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Sep 22, 2017 04:04
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Sep 22, 2017 05:43
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IRT the leftist racism thing I feel like there's a thing where white leftists are way, way too optimistic about economic policy alone being able to solve racism.
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Sep 22, 2017 05:46
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Der Waffle Mous posted:IRT the leftist racism thing I feel like there's a thing where white leftists are way, way too optimistic about economic policy alone being able to solve racism. I agree, a lot of leftists idealistically feel that Keynesian or some form of Nordic model (lol) econ policy alone can fix racism, in pretty much the same way that Libertarians think that free-market economics fixes racism through their stupid rational actor theory.
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Sep 22, 2017 05:54
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What if it's all a hoax and we create a better world but it doesn't end racism?
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Sep 22, 2017 05:56
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Nanomashoes posted:What if it's all a hoax and we create a better world but it doesn't end racism? the people we leave behind on the way will quite rightfully be pissed off at us for it for which reason their concerns are worth addressing
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Sep 22, 2017 06:03
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Nanomashoes posted:What if it's all a hoax and we create a better world but it doesn't end racism? The fear is the powers that be will deem that effort sufficient and then leave us minorities to deal with our problems for another generation or two. Y'know like every time this happens.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:17
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Will breaking up the big banks end racism? Will it end sexism?
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Sep 22, 2017 06:23
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:It's an attempt to reassure themselves and their white supporters that they're not racist, because racist is the worst thing you can call a white person.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:25
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Taerkar posted:Kekeke has been used as an anti Korean thing on the internet for a long time, mocking their version of lol You can't be serious
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Sep 22, 2017 06:41
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Der Waffle Mous posted:IRT the leftist racism thing I feel like there's a thing where white leftists are way, way too optimistic about economic policy alone being able to solve racism. Pardon me for the effort post, but let's be clear here. The very origin of this nation's economy was on the backs of black slaves making profit for the white man. After the horrors of the American Civil War, the efforts of Reconstruction and the promise of "40 acres and a mule" were not simply to give newly freed Black Americans independence symbolically, but economically as well. To have land and the opportunity to create wealth from that land was power that gave them direct representation in the halls of government, and the white former slaveowner simply could not accept this, which soon led to the birth of the Ku Klux Klan, a terrorist group which waged an all out war to thwart this new program of liberty promised by William Tecumseh Sherman, who if resurrected today and granted nuclear weapons, would be bombing south Manhattan and Silicon Valley, not poor white rural folk. There has been a concentrated effort to keep people of color as an exploitable, disenfranchised labor force with no power or representation by the wealthy in America, regardless of political affiliation. To not say that economic and racial injustice are not directly intertwined is directly ahistorical and utterly reprehensible. Mostly white, almost certainly wealthy liberals labored time and time again to force this divide during 2016. The infamous line, "would breaking up the banks end racism?" was iconic of this horseshit. The fact of the matter is that in America's hyper-capitalist society, wealth represents power, especially in the aftermath of Citizens United. All the while, Barack Obama insisted on doing nothing about 50% of Black America's wealth being wiped out by the 2008 housing crisis, and after even going to Flint and insisting the water was just fine, left office collecting millions from the same financial criminals he refused to prosecute. In the aftermath of the Great Recession, wealth inequality (which was already concentrated in the hands of a few rich whites) has gotten even worse along racial lines. (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/12/racial-wealth-gaps-great-recession/) All the while, in their insistence that wealth and race have no connection, white liberals have insisted half-measures like police body cameras, which have done nothing to reduce extrajudicial police murders while making a lot of money for Taser International, the same company that produces "less lethal" options that still murder and disable American citizens. On the other hand, leftists want a full abolition of the modern policing superstructure and the creation of a community based law enforcement program that resolves disputes and de-escalates violence, instead of shooting people of color on a whim with no consequences. For some reason, the liberals who keep punching left at leftists who focus on economic justice to help fight racism, keep proposing solutions that do little more than make more money for already rich white men. Liberalism has never had a "plan" to end racism. The most Hillary Clinton could articulate was demanding black people respect police more and hey, maybe they should run for something if they really care. It's not like she was going to go into the Oval Office day 1 and sign a bill outlawing white people from digital blackface or banning Native American headdresses at music festivals. It was all coding bootcamps and diversity pledges and telling the disenfranchised to "lean in" to a horribly exploitative workplace. The leftist political project sees a focus on redistribution of wealth on more equitable lines in order to give the disenfranchised Americans of color greater representation and power in a nation that is actively hostile and exploitative to them. In the ideal leftist America, no, there will be no more billionaires, from Elon Musk to Zuckerberg to even Jay-Z and Beyonce - that wealth comes from a brutally exploitative and violent system that even the supposedly most woke of all still profit from sweatshop labor. (https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/d7anay/beyonce-topshop-ivy-park-sweatshop-factory-labor) Until the end of homelessness, hunger, education defecits, lead poisoned water supplies, nobody will be a loving billionaire because as an American, you have an obligation not to step on the neck of your fellow citizen. Breaking up the concentrations of wealth hoarders who are almost all white and male and enacting horrendous grifts such as Elon Musk's project of turning taxpayer dollars into a private spaceflight service for the extremely wealthy are a robbery of the American citizen. Yes, liberals love to poke at white leftists and try to insist they're racist, but fail to articulate it, and more importantly, can never exactly pinpoint how their policy platform would benefit people of color more. Free health care and free college would both take massive burdens off of the backs of people of color who are already struggling just to meet their basic needs. Borrowing policies on food waste (which we waste 40% of, by the way,) from France and Italy would be a huge benefit, especially with how hard it is to give poor kids access to proper nutrition nowadays. Again, the leftist platform is that our American hypercapitalist society generates an enormous amount of waste for the profit of a mostly white mostly male few that is better utilized via seizure to enrich and embolden our most disenfranchised, and give them a better distribution of power and wealth so that they may be more fairly represented in our horribly unjust excuse of an allegedly representative democracy.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:48
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Have you considered the possibility that the criticism of the leftist position of 'only economic leftism will solve racism/sexism etc' doesn't only come from centrist Liberals? Like it's possible to believe in genuinely leftist economic positions, but also criticise leftists' constant mockery of social justice issues they see as coming from a place of wealthy Liberal privilege? This isn't some dumb zero sum game.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:12
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El Pollo Blanco posted:Have you considered the possibility that the criticism of the leftist position of 'only economic leftism will solve racism/sexism etc' doesn't only come from centrist Liberals? Like it's possible to believe in genuinely leftist economic positions, but also criticise leftists' constant mockery of social justice issues they see as coming from a place of wealthy Liberal privilege? This isn't some dumb zero sum game. The problem is this is impossibly large and vague terms to be arguing from. Is leftypol choir and their "death to idpol" theme wrong? Yes, sure. The most notable leftist group in America right now, the DSA, has made social justice planks a pretty core part of their platform. Are there some white leftists who live well off and are a bit glib when it comes to minority issues? Certainly. It's an entirely anecdotal perception problem depending on who sees what if you're going to remain vague and not point at a core case here. From where I sit, as a DSA member, Current Affairs subscriber, Street Fight Radio listener, all of which are rather popular leftist platforms, the only "mocking" of social justice issues is in regards to how wealthy liberals appropriate them in order to punch left, or allow the whims of capital to mask itself as a supposedly progressive force.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:19
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Saagonsa posted:You can't be serious He may or may not be serious, but it's absolutely true.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:35
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Maybe I was just oblivious the whole time, but I never saw it as pejorative, but more a weeaboo thing.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:37
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In terms of it being Korean, yeah that's true (But also Japanese, although originally stolen from Korean). It's the whole "anti-korean" thing I took issue with.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:42
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empty whippet box posted:Maybe I was just oblivious the whole time, but I never saw it as pejorative, but more a weeaboo thing. I wouldn't know about it as a pejorative, I was just pointing out it's a phrase that's been around way longer than most of us have even been members of this forum. EDIT: That's what I thought Saagonsa was incredulous about, and I was apparently mistaken.
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Sep 22, 2017 07:44
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Like for context I'm speaking as a native person. I.e. The other victim of America's original sin and more or less ignored by the discourse unless an oil company is involved or for photo ops. Growing up on a Rez gives you some insight into things like poverty, and outside politicians trying to say they have your interests in mind. Edit: or inside for that matter. It's a foreign system imposed on us after all. Der Waffle Mous fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 07:44
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Taintrunner posted:The problem is this is impossibly large and vague terms to be arguing from. Is leftypol choir and their "death to idpol" theme wrong? Yes, sure. The most notable leftist group in America right now, the DSA, has made social justice planks a pretty core part of their platform. Are there some white leftists who live well off and are a bit glib when it comes to minority issues? Certainly. It's an entirely anecdotal perception problem depending on who sees what if you're going to remain vague and not point at a core case here. From where I sit, as a DSA member, Current Affairs subscriber, Street Fight Radio listener, all of which are rather popular leftist platforms, the only "mocking" of social justice issues is in regards to how wealthy liberals appropriate them in order to punch left, or allow the whims of capital to mask itself as a supposedly progressive force. Your 'entirely anecdotal perception problem' and describing some leftists as being a 'bit glib' about minority issues is telling. Why should minorities trust that leftists actually have their best interests at heart when their concerns are often written off like this, just as an appropriation of Liberals to attack leftists more? I understand that most leftists movements have gotten past this kind of thing (Corbyn embraces social and economic justice, in a way that is compatible with my beliefs, for instance), but this poo poo still needs to be called out when it happens, otherwise creating the big tent that leftism requires to have any electoral impact is going to be nigh on impossible.
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Sep 22, 2017 08:04
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Like for context I'm speaking as a native person. I.e. The other victim of America's original sin and more or less ignored by the discourse unless an oil company is involved or for photo ops. iirc, a lot of crimes like rape are able to be committed by white people on reservations and our courts will refuse to make them subject to the laws of the tribes who govern the reservation. tackling problems like that seems like something that should be done. Condiv fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 08:08
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https://twitter.com/jcassano/status/910987746440892418 dems shouldn't be advancing the causes of saudi arabia either....
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Sep 22, 2017 08:15
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Condiv posted:iirc, a lot of crimes like rape are able to be committed by white people on reservations and our courts will refuse to make them subject to the laws of the tribes who govern the reservation. tackling problems like that seems like something that should be done. It's a clusterfuck of jurisdiction combined with our own often dysfunctional governments and sovereignty issues. And, like, sovereignty or at least the outward appearance of it is very important. But that seems like a topic for another thread.
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Sep 22, 2017 08:28
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