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Xelkelvos posted:If I'm just getting into writing (like within the last few weeks), would it be wise to sign up for the Thunderdome even though my writing skills probably have as much polish as week old cow pie? yeah, I'd do it. it's not a panacea, but it's fun, gives you an incentive to write and see yourself improve, and let's you know whether your self assessment is right. the worst that might happen is you get a loser av.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:34
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Burkion posted:So I'm conflicted on this. You would definitely need to scrub them from these forums before getting anything actually published, should you ever reach that point. People have had to edit out TD entries once they've started shopping them around.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:40
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anime was right posted:thanks for the tips (and thats to both zaepho and you). is there a good list of local literary stuff (obviously filtered by like, state or something) by any chance? i live right outside of nyc so i can attend that kind of stuff on weekends in that circle too. I was going to send you to LunaCon, but it looks like they've already cancelled for next year, so that doesn't bode well. I'll have to ask the lady, she's really the con person, I just try to help with what I can. How far are you willing to travel?
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Sep 21, 2017 21:42
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:You would definitely need to scrub them from these forums before getting anything actually published, should you ever reach that point. People have had to edit out TD entries once they've started shopping them around. That's what they get for actually finishing and submitting their stories.  
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Sep 21, 2017 21:45
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After The War posted:I was going to send you to LunaCon, but it looks like they've already cancelled for next year, so that doesn't bode well. i'll travel anywhere if its worth it and within reason (im not spending more than my allocated budget on going to a shack in wyoming). i've set aside some money for worldcon 2018 already. i probably wanna try some more local stuff tho. maybe i'll hit up dragoncon next year too.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:29
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:You would definitely need to scrub them from these forums before getting anything actually published, should you ever reach that point. People have had to edit out TD entries once they've started shopping them around. or scrub them anyway and never get them published like me (i have only submitted three places i think lol)
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Sep 21, 2017 22:32
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Burkion posted:So I'm conflicted on this. Sooner or later your thread will be archived and you won't be able to delete. Choose carefully.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:07
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HIJK posted:Sooner or later your thread will be archived and you won't be able to delete. Choose carefully. Yeah that is the worry. I'll keep it private
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Sep 21, 2017 23:32
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sebmojo posted:yeah, I'd do it. it's not a panacea, but it's fun, gives you an incentive to write and see yourself improve, and let's you know whether your self assessment is right. The thought of losing my perfect Karin av breaks my heart and so I'll never pay the Thunderdome Price, even if it means sacrificing my career for eternity.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:37
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Honestly I'm kind of masochistically excited for the day I get a loser av.
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Sep 22, 2017 00:57
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sebmojo posted:the worst that might happen is you get a loser av. MockingQuantum posted:Honestly I'm kind of masochistically excited for the day I get a loser av. All it takes is a Showgirls/Black Swan erotic fan fiction. I think. I forgot what the hell I was going for now.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:18
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What's the rules on replacing thunderdome avs anyway? Are they juat straight up forever or you're a coward?
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Sep 22, 2017 02:53
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Taciturn Tactician posted:What's the rules on replacing thunderdome avs anyway? Are they juat straight up forever or you're a coward? If you replace it in under a day we will laugh at you.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:03
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Taciturn Tactician posted:What's the rules on replacing thunderdome avs anyway? Are they juat straight up forever or you're a coward? it's cool when people keep them for a little while b/c sometimes it brings new people to the thread. But there's not really set expectation, though dockloc is correct
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Sep 22, 2017 03:05
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HIJK posted:Sooner or later your thread will be archived and you won't be able to delete. Choose carefully. it won't be archived until it's been dormant for a while. alternatively use gdoc links. if you are finding the thread useful, keep with it imo.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:33
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if you have a TD losertar and then you end up winning somebody will usually buy you a new one because we're proud of you
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Sep 22, 2017 05:15
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Taciturn Tactician posted:What's the rules on replacing thunderdome avs anyway? Are they juat straight up forever or you're a coward? Replacing them costs money and we're all too cheap to do it so we leave them forever.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:21
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Chairchucker posted:Replacing them costs money and we're all too cheap to do it so we leave them forever. Going on 5 years now I believe. But - to be fair. I think I replaced the first one. After the second one half a year later I decided F that just leave it as a bitter hostile reminder that I continue to suck at this game.
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Sep 22, 2017 13:36
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magnificent7 posted:Going on 5 years now I believe. But - to be fair. I think I replaced the first one. After the second one half a year later I decided F that just leave it as a bitter hostile reminder that I continue to suck at this game. if you go in again and HM or better i'll change your av to something cool (or ask mojo to, more likely)
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Sep 22, 2017 19:18
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So as I have learned, if I write in a character's voice that heavy again, try and be more overt about what actually happens in the end. Good to know! Thanks Hawklad!
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Sep 23, 2017 00:00
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So during the start of TD I was pretty hopeful and getting good advice. Pick up punctuation books, fix spelling, fix grammar. I have gotten better on that side that the advice is no longer "pass grade 5 english". Still room for improvement of course. The problem I'm having now is the advice im getting is.. inconsistent and vague. It's not something that has mechanics around it nor a clear-cut goal. The best crit I got for my last story was to make the start interesting. Now the advice I'm getting is to have more weight or make things move less quickly. Which isn't something I can exactly look up nor do I understand it. I get line by line crits sometimes but they seem more to be sarcasm than actual help. Before getting a DM or Loss was okay because I was getting better advice or knew how to improve. This time it stings a little bit because I don't really know how to improve and its the fourth consecutive DM.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:18
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talk about physical things that are happening in your story, use precise nouns and verbs. don't say cloth, say silk or wool. don't say hit, say punched or headbutted. spend time on developing an important idea through physical relationships. talk about the chair in the room as if it represents the room itself, then don't tell us about the room unless we need to know something else. space all actions around the chair so readers know where characters are at all times with certainty.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:23
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Also, pacing. Pacing is key. Pacing is this intangible thing that you can't really do much more than plan around. There's no magic thing, just set the flow of your story. If you take things too fast, the pacing is off. If you take things too slow, the pacing is off. Line by line stuff tends to be more for fun than actually helpful. There's some intrinsic stuff when you get past the basics that you just have to struggle with and work around to really pick up.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:33
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Exmond posted:So during the start of TD I was pretty hopeful and getting good advice. Pick up punctuation books, fix spelling, fix grammar. I have gotten better on that side that the advice is no longer "pass grade 5 english". Still room for improvement of course. Maybe get a couple more weeks in first, but volunteer to cojudge sometime soonish. It's a big part of the learning process, critically reading other stories and talking about them in the small group.
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Sep 26, 2017 06:20
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I'm real bad at judging, which is why I've never offered, but maybe I should give it a whack. When it comes to TD, as long as I don't lose I'm happy, but I really hate that I didn't have more time to write and fix my entry because I was out of the house all Saturday. Just thinking about it right now I can come up with a handful of problems that probably got me points docked without even looking at the drat thing. I'm so loving out of practice, but with moving house coming up I can't afford the stress of a deadline.
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Sep 26, 2017 06:28
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Exmond posted:So during the start of TD I was pretty hopeful and getting good advice. Pick up punctuation books, fix spelling, fix grammar. I have gotten better on that side that the advice is no longer "pass grade 5 english". Still room for improvement of course. Alright, I was going to put this at the end of my post, because it feels like more of a "p.s." kinda thing, but then the post ended up being kinda long, and I want to be sure you read it, so: I really only entered this week because of that conversation with you and trex about your entry. Like...I was so into your idea I was like "let's do this," and then of course I got my own card and had to write my own story and was like "argh, why can't I write about a teacher fighting a dragon like I was thinking about???" So don't quit. ALSO our dude with the highest number of losses is none other than Jay W. Fricks, winner of this week and general hero. Our DM champion is Thranguy, who also has nine wins. Moving on: This is probably not particularly comforting, but one reason the advice you are getting is now inconsistent and/or vague is actually BECAUSE you are getting better (Muffin mentioned this in his judgement post as well). It's easy for everyone to agree like "oh yeah, fix punctuation, fix grammar," etc. And seriously, you've done a good and remarkably swift job of doing that. Past that, you are going to start running into everyone else's opinions on how they think things should work generally, or if they they are talking about something specific, specifically, and even a single person's advice may end up being vague or inconsistent between those things. Like when we were talking a few days ago in IRC, and Trex and I were telling you things at the same time--some of it was the same, some of it wasn't, some if it would work for you, some of it wouldn't Such is the nature of the beast. At some point the path to improvement stops being a well-paved avenue and becomes a winding path with branches and thorns and who even loving knows. It's tough. I think you can do it. I'm bummed that you find the line-by-lines you are getting more sarcastic than helpful. There's a lot of ~omg everything here is the worst~ in Thunderdome, but personally, I still want it to be a helpful thing. I think most of the people participating do, too. A lot of things in-thread tend to end up a little bit overblown though, and I really don't want that to discourage you (or anyone). Like...for me the over-the-top nature of the criticism makes it easier to take, because when you're expecting an enraged hellbeast to come storming in screaming about how every word you wrote is terrible, it's less bad when they are like "half of these words are terrible." But that's just me. I'm happy to give you a read-through of your latest story and tell you where I think you can improve with zero sarcasm, I promise, and I think other people in IRC will as well. If anything brings us together (besides blood lust and rage, obviously), it's actually trying to make everyone a better writer. hosed up, but true. Actual p.s.: CantDecideOnAName, I was pretty stoked to see you enter again after you said earlier that the intense kayfabe was bad for you the first time around! Even if you don't end up judging, it's always a productive (and very much appreciated) act to go through a week and give even a brief opinion on everyone's story. You really do get a lot out of looking at what other people wrote with an EYE OF EVALUATION. (Critical Eye sounds dumb)
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Sep 26, 2017 07:27
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Exmond posted:So during the start of TD I was pretty hopeful and getting good advice. Pick up punctuation books, fix spelling, fix grammar. I have gotten better on that side that the advice is no longer "pass grade 5 english". Still room for improvement of course. just @ me next time dont subtweet me. thats a joke i dont mean that but for real tho, thats like, how writing goes. like its easy to look up guides on how to punctuate dialogue or read a quick guide on the internet to grammar. but grammar and dialogue punctuation doesnt make a story interesting. no journal or agent is gonna be like "whoa holy cow did you see how good this guy can punctuate." so youre in the hard part of writing now, where your stories might be technically good (aka: error free, sentences make sense, plot points exist and there are characters) but not actually good (the story is interesting, the characters are enjoyable, the prose flows or has a particularly compelling style). and the solution isnt going to be some easy "how do i write a compelling story" because you will find conflicting advice, inconsistency, subjective thoughts, and wide variety of different interpretations of why a story is "good". and looking up the answer doesnt actually help you in the long run, because you can read somebody saying "make your character likeable and have motivation" but actually doing that in a story is completely different. the advice is simple but also lovely af. you have to read, to see what people think are interesting and engaging. and you have to write. i cant tell you how to write a good story, no matter what happens. like, i can tell you why your story didn't work. i can tell you what i disliked. i can tell you what i think makes a story good, but when it comes down to you putting the words on the page, i cant tell you how to do it. i really wish i could. i really wish there was some simple way rather than spending a stupid amount of time writing these loving lovely words and then still writing lovely loving words until sometimes i might get not as lovely words. the only way to get better is to write. and to keep writing. keep getting critiques, but you dont wake up one day and know how to do it. you have to go down into the word mines and break your pickaxe against the rocks over and over again until you start finding something decent. and it takes a time, sometimes a lot, but it's okay. i mean look at me. im a loving idiot. i racked up like 8 dms in my first 10 td entries or w/e. and sometimes im writing decently occasionally and some people even paid me for my words like wtf. but that took me years to go from "dumb idiot who cant stop dming" to "dumb idiot who can write okay sometimes." and the only way i got there was by writing constantly. and it wasnt by looking up guides or anything (i didnt read style manuals or anything, gently caress that poo poo). i just kept writing, trying to make my stories better, trying to come up with different ideas, trying different styles, seeing what people liked and disliked, but also what i liked and disliked writing. and i think i finally got something of a personal style that works for other people and also myself, but it was only after a lot of writing. also if you thought my crit was sarcastic, it is not. like im a jerk but i also want you to write better. mostly because i hate reading bad things but also because i want you to write better. but the advice i gave in there, while admittedly harsh, is there to help you. like as fun as it is to yell at somebody, i also try to make sure that im giving genuine advice. so dont think im trying to be an rear end in a top hat for being an rear end in a top hat's sake. i want to help. i was there with you, at one time. and it sucks. god it loving SUCKS to keep getting DMs over and over again and your trying your loving hardest and people hate it and youre like how do i write good what do i do i dont know im not trying to write bad but its all i can do. but you have to put the work in. you have to keep trying because eventually it starts to break through. you start to find your style, start to find the stories that work for you as a writer, and you find who you are as a writer. it can take a long while, but you can do it. i know you can. i mean i did it and im a barely functional human being. as a little aside, i think that my first collection of DMs in TD were perhaps the most useful things to ever happen to my writing career. they were what made me grow a lot as a writer and i think if i didnt get them i wouldnt be anywhere close to where i am today as a writer.
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Sep 26, 2017 08:14
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I have nothing super constructive to add to some of the good advice that is being given out here, except to say that while at times the harshness of criticism here can sting, it will be way more useful in making you a better writer than what you are likely to get elsewhere, because this is one of the few places I have seen where people don't feel it would be impolite to tell you what's wrong with what you've written.
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Sep 26, 2017 09:00
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Thank you for all the advice. Im going to go through all the advice and topics given (passive voice and etc) and then rewrite that story and see if I can get it to "Above DM" levels.
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Sep 26, 2017 21:54
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Dunno if it'll help, but I always c/p my TD crits to the end of my submission document so I can look them over at a later date if I ever revisit the story. Might help you find patterns. Plus it's always kinda nice to see the rare praise again.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:15
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I love when dreams give you a great story. I hate deciphering my almost-asleep voice trying to narrate that story via voice memo.my half awake rear end posted:"he's the key see. The ivy from laotian volcano ash. He's drawing on -- no above -- the pillow. he's the key." I mean. What?
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Sep 28, 2017 14:43
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magnificent7 posted:I love when dreams give you a great story. I hate deciphering my almost-asleep voice trying to narrate that story via voice memo. I don't have anything helpful to say but this made me laugh
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Sep 29, 2017 03:40
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DAMMIT what's the best way to say this in this order:quote:“Those were her associates from a time long before I came along.” Is that grammatically correct? I'm setting up the pacing - the confiding body language, then the word, and then the payoff that it's said in disgust. edit - also - "From a time, long before I came along" or "from a time long-before I came along" I can hear it all perfectly in my head, but it reads like a drunk cat scaling a Christmas tree. edit again: one last thing: WHAT do you call people who attend a funeral to pay their respects? Well-wishers? Mourners? Sympathizers? magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 18:57
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magnificent7 posted:DAMMIT what's the best way to say this in this order: How about this: He leaned in close. "Actors," he whispered, in the same tone one might say "cancer" or "creditor." E. "From a time way before I came along." I don't like the repetition of "long" and "along" but that's just me. Also depends on the voice of the character obviously.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:03
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About submitting work to journals. This article says, "If you are submitting your work, you will inevitably deal with rejection. The average short story or poem may be rejected twenty times before it is accepted, and even famous writers deal with rejection daily. " https://electricliterature.com/lit-mag-submissions-101-how-when-and-where-to-send-your-work-887f826ff7d9 They've mentioned it a few times on that site, the twenty rejections number. Is that true? Or even generally accurate? I know they say, "may be rejected," but even then that seems like a lot.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:05
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Mrenda posted:About submitting work to journals. This article says, "If you are submitting your work, you will inevitably deal with rejection. The average short story or poem may be rejected twenty times before it is accepted, and even famous writers deal with rejection daily. " https://electricliterature.com/lit-mag-submissions-101-how-when-and-where-to-send-your-work-887f826ff7d9 idk usually i subbed around 10-15 different journals for most of the ones that got picked up eventually but the same general principle is there. it will be rejected, a lot. but it getting rejected is normal, and shouldnt be discouraging
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Sep 29, 2017 19:26
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magnificent7 posted:
Attendees?
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Sep 29, 2017 19:31
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Phil Moscowitz posted:How about this: OH drat that's good. Phil Moscowitz posted:Attendees? WHAT ARE YOU, HEMINGWAY? Perfect word. My brain shut down.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:47
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Mrenda posted:About submitting work to journals. This article says, "If you are submitting your work, you will inevitably deal with rejection. The average short story or poem may be rejected twenty times before it is accepted, and even famous writers deal with rejection daily. " https://electricliterature.com/lit-mag-submissions-101-how-when-and-where-to-send-your-work-887f826ff7d9 Kevin J Anderson has a trophy in his office from his group of successful writer friends for the most rejection letters, by weight. Yes they all had so many rejections, they measured by weight because counting would take too long. You will be rejected. Repeatedly. Usually with form letters because giving actual feedback takes too much time and invariably leads to whining, complaining and/or begging on the part of the average submitter. There are a zillion reasons somebody will reject your work so prepare to work your way through them all! Let the work make the rounds and if it doesn't get picked up, shelve it and get the next thing out the door. You can always revisit/revise and after some time, resubmit that shelved work. Don't let the rejection stop you from trying. Also, look for smaller imprints to submit your work to. They're usually more willing to take a chance and put in some extra effort on a new author.
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Oct 2, 2017 16:30
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Why did they save every rejection letter to be able to weigh them? Does this man just have a sack of sadness that he reaches into to pull out a rejection letter to read and feel bad about?
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Oct 2, 2017 16:39
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