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tekz posted:This is pretty surprising, is that really true for most people? It is both true and not useful. Most people never have to use their health insurance for anything much, and don't get anything serious until they are at the end of life and on Medicare. And it ignores the problem that if you get very seriously sick you generally lose your job and health insurance with it.
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Sep 20, 2017 16:25
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But COBRA! 
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Sep 20, 2017 16:29
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tekz posted:This is pretty surprising, is that really true for most people? http://www.gallup.com/file/poll/186758/Healthcare_I_Personal_Situation_151119%20.pdf Quality of Care: Excellent: 31 | Good: 45 | Only Fair: 16 | Poor: 7 Health Care Coverage: Excellent: 25 | Good: 42 | Only Fair: 22 | Poor: 10 Satisfaction with Total Cost: Satisfied: 57 | Dissatisfied: 42 We know from the wider survey (that I can't find at the moment for crosstabbing) that satisfaction of those insured by private employers trails those on government plans but still comes in at 69%. It's worth noting that satisfaction metrics don't account for expectation level, so that can skew results some. I've seen elsewhere-I think Gallup as well-that Dems are much more satisfied than Republicans, which creates a risk of wedging as well-it's easier to write off opposition when it comes from the other side. This doesn't excuse the myriad failures of the US healthcare system. But it's the reality that reformers have to grapple with, and I'm intensely skeptical of any plan that doesn't address it explicitly. e: BarbarianElephant posted:It is both true and not useful. Most people never have to use their health insurance for anything much, and don't get anything serious until they are at the end of life and on Medicare. And it ignores the problem that if you get very seriously sick you generally lose your job and health insurance with it. It's thoroughly useless as an indicator of whether or not we need reform (we do!), for the reasons you indicated. It's pretty drat relevant as it comes to how that reform is perceived and voted on though. ee: vv  vv
Paracaidas fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 16:30
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tekz posted:This is pretty surprising, is that really true for most people? It's slightly incorrect but the basic message is very, very true. People aren't so much "satisfied" with their insurance as they recognize its importance and are not willing to tolerate getting less. They want better insurance, for less, so "satisfied" is the wrong word. But that's not that relevant a point. The real political force against Obamacare wasn't the wealthy, it was people with insurance who were convinced Obama was going to make it worse. That makes any changes to the system very difficult as people do not trust involuntary changes to their status quo. It is, however, what is helping protect Obamacare now: Obamacare is the status quo and each "repeal and replace" is changing it.
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Sep 20, 2017 16:34
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evilweasel posted:It's slightly incorrect but the basic message is very, very true. People aren't so much "satisfied" with their insurance as they recognize its importance and are not willing to tolerate getting less. They want better insurance, for less, so "satisfied" is the wrong word. But that's not that relevant a point. The real political force against Obamacare wasn't the wealthy, it was people with insurance who were convinced Obama was going to make it worse. That makes any changes to the system very difficult as people do not trust involuntary changes to their status quo. Posting rather than just passiveaggressive smilie editing: how do you square "slightly incorrect" with the gallup data? It's typically my go-to in this conversation, so if there's another way to measure it or a better source I'd love to use it.
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Sep 20, 2017 16:56
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I'm on board for single payer, but I do understand why some people would be afraid of insurance getting worse. I have multiple levels of insurance available to me, from 'basically free bronze crap' to 'horribly expensive platinum plan'. Many of my older co-workers depend on the platinum insurance to survive, as in they or their spouses have conditions where they would die very quickly without proper coverage. They have been told for years about single payer in Canada where there are long waits for insurance, and while they are unhappy about the cost, our platinum insurance is really good.(one co-worker was telling me he pays more for insurance that he does rent. In the suburbs of Seattle) I'm sure for a lot of younger people on this website insurance couldn't be worse as it is very expensive, but for my coworkers they are terrified that it will prevent the care they need and their loved ones will simply die. A single payer plan needs to stress that these people won't be left behind.
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Sep 20, 2017 17:19
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Peachfart posted:A single payer plan needs to stress that these people won't be left behind. It's hard to trust. Even if the Democrats pass the perfect plan, the next time the Republicans get in, they will viciously attack it and make it unworkable. They would probably cripple it so it works like the strawman version of single-payer - hellish long waits, denials for anything expensive or new. Anything to prove government doesn't work.
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Sep 20, 2017 17:33
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The GOP can't manage to dismantle the ACA and that affects a small segment of the population compared to a federal single-payer system. They're not even going to be able to touch single payer.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:53
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's hard to trust. Even if the Democrats pass the perfect plan, the next time the Republicans get in, they will viciously attack it and make it unworkable. They would probably cripple it so it works like the strawman version of single-payer - hellish long waits, denials for anything expensive or new. Anything to prove government doesn't work. yeah but they're gonna do that with literally anything the government does until all the disciples of grover nordquist are purged from politics
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Sep 20, 2017 22:57
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Just listened to Rand Paul bitch about the Graham-Cassidy bill on NPR. He avoided answering a direct question on whether his No is set in stone, but at least he's still going at it. So we have Collins a near definitive No. Murkowski an unclear but leaning No. McCain an unclear. And 2 or 3 unclears in Medicaid heavy states like West Virginia. Way too early to tell. Call these people up!
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Sep 21, 2017 00:50
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:Just listened to Rand Paul bitch about the Graham-Cassidy bill on NPR. He avoided answering a direct question on whether his No is set in stone, but at least he's still going at it. Apparently Graham's still having to put in effort with McCain. https://twitter.com/ericawerner/status/910634307831681025 Oh, and apparently this is the state plan for pre-existing conditions waivers, which is, uh... https://twitter.com/steventdennis/status/909410978550439936 
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Sep 21, 2017 00:56
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[quote="“Office Pig”" post="“476599701”"] Apparently Graham’s still having to put in effort with McCain. https://twitter.com/ericawerner/status/910634307831681025 Oh, and apparently this is the state plan for pre-existing conditions waivers, which is, uh... https://twitter.com/steventdennis/status/909410978550439936 [/quote] I assume "The invisible hand!" Is an acceptable response?
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Sep 21, 2017 01:02
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hobbesmaster posted:I assume "The invisible hand!" Is an acceptable response? Invisible? Sure you can't see any skin or muscles but those cold, bony digits sure seem visible from this
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Sep 21, 2017 01:06
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hobbesmaster posted:I assume "The invisible hand!" Is an acceptable response? How about "praying very hard for their health."?
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Sep 21, 2017 01:46
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We intend to keep health care affordable by subsidizing it. *never puts any legislation forward to that intent.*
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Sep 21, 2017 01:47
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BarbarianElephant posted:How about "praying very hard for their health."? Currently, victims of gun violence and their immediate families are the primary recipient of our thoughts and prayers. Our state intends to expand this thoughts and prayers program to all the rest of our citizens (and if there is budget for it, perhaps their families too) who require medical care that is no longer affordable due to our actions. Thanks And God Bless,
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Sep 21, 2017 02:27
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Grace Baiting posted:Currently, victims of gun violence and their immediate families are the primary recipient of our thoughts and prayers. Our state intends to expand this thoughts and prayers program to all the rest of our citizens (and if there is budget for it, perhaps their families too) who require medical care that is no longer affordable due to our actions. Thanks And God Bless, Given that thoughts and prayers are worth poo poo, it's really easy to expand the program given that the budget is full of it.
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Sep 21, 2017 02:48
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lmao https://twitter.com/mepfuller/status/910933764703956994
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Sep 21, 2017 19:44
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Hahaha what an absolute farce.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:08
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This the only noteworthy development on the Graham-Cassidy bill today, unless I missed something. Murkowski continues to be worked on. She said back in June she wouldn't let them "get" her through deals like this that are favorable to Alaska but leave a nationwide healthcare system worse as a whole. Of course, using that statement to predict her ultimate decision would assume she sticks to principles, which the GOP generally does not have, and that she cannot be bought out, which the GOP generally can. I'm waiting for Rand Paul to announce he changed his mind, maybe next week? He need not worry about looking like a jackass. One week is long time in 2017 time.
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Sep 22, 2017 00:15
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:I'm waiting for Rand Paul to announce he changed his mind, maybe next week? He need not worry about looking like a jackass. He's already there Fixed
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Sep 22, 2017 03:27
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:This the only noteworthy development on the Graham-Cassidy bill today, unless I missed something. Murkowski continues to be worked on. She said back in June she wouldn't let them "get" her through deals like this that are favorable to Alaska but leave a nationwide healthcare system worse as a whole. Yes, you did miss something. That's not the deal or a deal, it's one of those ideas along with federal Medicaid adjustments getting floated around as lures rather than concrete proposals for Murkowski. This is an instance where reporters are playing a game of telephone and we get 'Alaska gets its own ACA' as a result.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqILOA5bdjI A man with a loving brain tumor — which is being treated with government healthcare — is about to take Medicaid and Obamacare away from poor people.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:22
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viral spiral posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqILOA5bdjI Not that I don't believe McCain can flip, but no other source is saying he's a yes. The last statement McCain has put out was about wanting regular order.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:52
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Who the gently caress is Jimmy Dore
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Sep 22, 2017 05:00
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Our loud and annoying lord and savior
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Sep 22, 2017 05:08
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Spiritus Nox posted:Who the gently caress is Jimmy Dore Subscribe to his channel for regular updates on how worthless the Democrats are at everything.
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Sep 22, 2017 05:26
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this would honestly be the funniest way for graham-Cassidy to fail https://twitter.com/randpaul/status/911218525800419328
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Sep 22, 2017 17:03
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hobbesmaster posted:I assume "The invisible hand!" Is an acceptable response? I actually don't understand that waiver thing or rather what that tweet is calling out How does this bill destroy coverage for pre existing conditions
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Sep 22, 2017 18:23
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Hollismason posted:I actually don't understand that waiver thing or rather what that tweet is calling out States can just opt out of the system. Similarly, Louisiana refused to raise it's drinking age to 21 for around 2 decades after the rest of the country in a similar waiver and sacrificed a shitton of federal funding for roads and highways.
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Sep 22, 2017 18:25
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Spiritus Nox posted:Who the gently caress is Jimmy Dore One of the few honest to god Bernie or Busters.
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Sep 22, 2017 18:33
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https://twitter.com/yashar/status/911286545000419328
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Sep 22, 2017 18:58
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https://twitter.com/benjysarlin/status/911287742436388865 This really doesn't leave much room to justify a flip before the deadline. It's not over till it's over, but if they save this bill I think it'll be without McCain
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Sep 22, 2017 19:02
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viral spiral posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqILOA5bdjI Spiritus Nox posted:https://twitter.com/benjysarlin/status/911287742436388865 Don't trust random yahoos on YouTube for political analysis.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:15
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In a shocking turn of events, Jimmy Dore is a loving moron.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:21
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here's jimmydore.gif for ya
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Sep 22, 2017 19:36
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Acebuckeye13 posted:In a shocking turn of events, Jimmy Dore is a loving moron. Jimmy Dore: spits on nazis You: who gives a gently caress, probably some boring poo poo
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Sep 22, 2017 20:20
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Spiritus Nox posted:Who the gently caress is Jimmy Dore A man who thought it was more likely for the moon to crash into lake Michigan than Donald Trump being able to fill a SCOTUS seat (IF ELECTED).
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Sep 22, 2017 20:23
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Acebuckeye13 posted:In a shocking turn of events, Jimmy Dore is a loving moron. ...because he thought McCain was going to be a bigger piece of poo poo than he normally is? Okay, I guess. Flip Yr Wig posted:A man who thought it was more likely for the moon to crash into lake Michigan than Donald Trump being able to fill a SCOTUS seat (IF ELECTED). Nobody thought Trump was going to win, kiddo. Including you.
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Sep 22, 2017 23:59
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viral spiral posted:...because he thought McCain was going to be a bigger piece of poo poo than he normally is? Okay, I guess. because even if we accept your "he was just predicting" he reported his prediction as fact the reality is that mccain had not done the thing he claimed he did and he was just dumb
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Sep 23, 2017 00:02
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