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Nevvy Z posted:Show me people purporting this? the left is a waste 
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Sep 22, 2017 20:08
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LunarShadow posted:Maybe don't use my wording and point when talking about centrists. It comes off as directed towards me when you do that, and I ain't a centrist. Like I said earlier, literally a Maoist I like that you think you coined the phrase "unexamined racism."
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Sep 22, 2017 20:10
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what if instead of circular firing about racist accusations we talk about combating racism and our goals to reform the justice system from top down.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:11
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Majorian posted:The Symone Sanders piece cites a lot of examples in the press. You may have to just paste the drat thing because she's apparently completely loving invisible otherwise.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:11
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Majorian posted:I like that you think you coined the phrase "unexamined racism." I don't think I did, I was just saying that it comes across as directed towards me cause that was the exact wording I used earlier when me and you were quoting each other.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:12
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Majorian posted:Are you asking genuinely? Because I don't think centrists have really, publicly tackled poo poo like the Clinton's racist policies in the 90's, or Hillary's extremely dogwhistle-y primary campaign in '08. They don't have to. "Centrism" is, definitionally, ideology-free, so centrists aren't concerned about attacks on their ideological purity in the same way that leftists are. Of course we make horrible compromises and do horrible poo poo to win! Listen, that's how the game is played! Once you've said "all I care about is the least-bad practical option," then a bad policy is just a price to be paid (hopefully by someone else).
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Sep 22, 2017 20:12
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Nevvy Z posted:Show me people purporting this? Didn't you resolve to better yourself and try to post in semi-good faith? You're relapsing, pal. EDIT: Koalas March posted:what if instead of circular firing about racist accusations we talk about combating racism and our goals to reform the justice system from top down. Disband every police department in America and build up a new peacekeeping organization directly integrated in and responsible to the communities they serve, with every officer serving in a community being subject to immediate dismissal from office on a successful recall vote in said community. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 20:14
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LunarShadow posted:I don't think I did, I was just saying that it comes across as directed towards me cause that was the exact wording I used earlier when me and you were quoting each other. All right, well, I never meant to suggest that you're a centrist. "Unexamined racism" is an appropriate phrase for the phenomenon we're talking about.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:14
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Koalas March posted:what if instead of circular firing about racist accusations we talk about combating racism and our goals to reform the justice system from top down. Fair enough. Honestly don't see much hope for doing it within the system. Am a big fan of neighborhood policing of one's own community, a la the BPP's programme. But that may be a little pie in the sky in the current climate. Edit: all good dude, sorry that I seem3d antagonistic.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:15
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I guess it is time to add centrism to the list of words that mean "thing or person I don't like".
Xae fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 20:15
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centrist is just hipster for the post trump woke era
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Sep 22, 2017 20:17
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Cerebral Bore posted:Didn't you resolve to better yourself and try to post in semi-good faith? You're relapsing, pal. Go gently caress yourself idiot. I do mean this entirely in good faith.  boner confessor posted:centrist is just hipster for the post trump woke era Are they the new emos?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:17
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Xae posted:I guess it is time to add centrism to the list of word that mean "person I don't like". This is one reason I wear the title as a badge of honor. most of the people railing against "centrists" are pretty loving awful and I have no problem that they don't like me or my opinions. it's not like engaging in good faith means anything to them. The left is a waste.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:19
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Koalas March posted:what if instead of circular firing about racist accusations we talk about combating racism and our goals to reform the justice system from top down. Yeah seriously these past several pages of debate about who's racist and how much without anyone ever talking about specific ways to start improving on racial issues is not good. Makes it really feel like no one actually gives a poo poo about the issues except as a bludgeon to call the people you disagree with bad.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:20
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Koalas March posted:what if instead of circular firing about racist accusations we talk about combating racism and our goals to reform the justice system from top down. I agree with LunarShadow on this; at the very least, it's going to take a new administration to reform the racist shitstorm that is the DOJ. I like the idea of Black Panther-style community policing. White people freak out about the BPP, but I think the last few years have unfortunately shown us that, with or without militant defense of black lives, any sort of social justice protest, no matter how peaceful, is regarded as scary violent black supremacism. Leftists of all racial and ethnic backgrounds need to be proactive in protecting the safety of PoCs. Calling out racism in our personal lives and online is obviously an important, ongoing task. Also the next time elections roll around, we need to do stuff like volunteering to bus people from disenfranchised communities to polling stations, to chip away at voter disenfranchisement wherever we can. These are just a couple thoughts that come to mind. Majorian fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 20:21
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Is the police the place to start, the DOJ? Is part of the problem federalism so we can't consistently fix this stuff across the country?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:27
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Why was that number so high to begin with? What substantive policy has ever been passed that warrants that 85%?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:28
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Majorian posted:I agree with LunarShadow on this; at the very least, it's going to take a new administration to reform the racist shitstorm that is the DOJ. I like the idea of Black Panther-style community policing. White people freak out about the BPP, but I think the last few years have unfortunately shown us that, with or without militant defense of black lives, any sort of social justice protest, no matter how peaceful, is regarded as scary violent black supremacism. Leftists of all racial and ethnic backgrounds need to be proactive in protecting the safety of PoCs. To further expand on bussing people to polls, also helping people get IDs a in places where they are more onerous to get. Not a perfect solution, And I have a general disdain for electoralism, but this poo poo /is/ important to do. There are still problens wuth that too cause it still relies on getting time off since most places the do IDs have poo poo hours for working folk. But still help who we can with that.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:28
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Why was that number so high to begin with? What substantive policy has ever been passed that warrants that 85%? Those policies were called "desperation" and "nowhere else to go".
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Sep 22, 2017 20:29
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RuanGacho posted:Is the police the place to start, the DOJ? Is part of the problem federalism so we can't consistently fix this stuff across the country? It is honestly the whole drat system. Gotta remember that in the US modern law enforcement was born partially from slave patrols in the South. It is a big problem with a lot if facets that I dont beleive =can/ be fixes due to the nature if the Amerucan justice system. One of the reasons revolution is nescessary.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:31
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LunarShadow posted:To further expand on bussing people to polls, also helping people get IDs a in places where they are more onerous to get. Not a perfect solution, And I have a general disdain for electoralism, but this poo poo /is/ important to do. A-loving-men to that. quote:There are still problens wuth that too cause it still relies on getting time off since most places the do IDs have poo poo hours for working folk. But still help who we can with that. Yeah, to really solve the problem we would kind of have to tear the whole system down to its foundations, build it back up, and hope that white supremacists don't gently caress it all up in the process (which they would). But for the time being, what we can do is make things less lovely for a few people.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:31
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Why was that number so high to begin with? What substantive policy has ever been passed that warrants that 85%? Believe it or not there are democrats who have worked extensively with the black community. Hillary Clinton is one of them. Also we are women. So those policies affect us as well.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:31
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RuanGacho posted:Is the police the place to start, the DOJ? Is part of the problem federalism so we can't consistently fix this stuff across the country?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:33
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LunarShadow posted:To further expand on bussing people to polls, also helping people get IDs a in places where they are more onerous to get. Not a perfect solution, And I have a general disdain for electoralism, but this poo poo /is/ important to do. There are still problens wuth that too cause it still relies on getting time off since most places the do IDs have poo poo hours for working folk. But still help who we can with that. I still don't see why we can't hold elections on a weekend, or make Election Day a day off. Obviously the reason why that's not the case is so poor and minority communities are disenfranchised, but why is there seemingly no will for this even among Democrats in congress? We always hear about low voter turnout and how it's such a problem. Making Election Day a mandated day off, and maybe making voting mandatory like it is in Australia, could do a lot to help disenfranchised people participate. I can see why mandatory voting might run into resistance, but who wouldn't want an extra day off to vote?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:35
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RuanGacho posted:Is the police the place to start, the DOJ? Is part of the problem federalism so we can't consistently fix this stuff across the country? I would say Federalism was a mistake but then I look at Southern Republicans and get very thankful they have limited ability to gently caress things up for me.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:36
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LunarShadow posted:It is honestly the whole drat system. Gotta remember that in the US modern law enforcement was born partially from slave patrols in the South. It is a big problem with a lot if facets that I dont beleive =can/ be fixes due to the nature if the Amerucan justice system. One of the reasons revolution is nescessary. The big challenge is that not only do you need a DoJ that will say 'No, gently caress YOU' to the local police and the local politicians, you need one that will hold firm in the face of the countless lawsuits that will be filed against them. Oh and a SCOTUS that isn't filled with poo poo. Casey Finnigan posted:Making Election Day a mandated day off, and maybe making voting mandatory like it is in Australia, could do a lot to help disenfranchised people participate. I can see why mandatory voting might run into resistance, but who wouldn't want an extra day off to vote? The closest thing this country has to a 'mandatory day off' are federal holidays, and those are pretty much universal excuses to make the disenfranchised work more. Taerkar fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 20:36
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Koalas March posted:Believe it or not there are democrats who have worked extensively with the black community. Hillary Clinton is one of them. But that view of Clinton and the Democrats seems to only take part of the picture into account. There's a lot of other stuff on their record that's pretty awful. Shouldn't that also factor into it?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:37
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LunarShadow posted:To further expand on bussing people to polls, also helping people get IDs a in places where they are more onerous to get. Not a perfect solution, And I have a general disdain for electoralism, but this poo poo /is/ important to do. There are still problens wuth that too cause it still relies on getting time off since most places the do IDs have poo poo hours for working folk. But still help who we can with that. Do the democrats have programs like this in place in any states? WHy aren't there chartered bus services for all districts that need them paid for on the dime of DNC donors? Same goes for ID acquisition. There should be a fund the DNC can use to make these issues go away for their voters.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:38
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Majorian posted:But that view of Clinton and the Democrats seems to only take part of the picture into account. There's a lot of other stuff on their record that's pretty awful. Shouldn't that also factor into it? will you stop god drat injecting how evil you think hillary clinton is into every single post you make jesus christ you can't logically explain why other people have different ideas than what you think they should have based on your reading of reality. gently caress!
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Sep 22, 2017 20:38
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boner confessor posted:will you stop god drat injecting how evil you think hillary clinton is into every single post you make jesus christ I like how reflexively you erase a woman of color's perspective when it doesn't line up with your narrative. 
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Sep 22, 2017 20:41
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I hypothetically believe that we can reform the justice system and keep our current build in place, but in order to do that the "right" people need to be in every single position of power. We need to get rid of every single cop, let them reapply if they must, then drill completely new training into every applicant. There should also be psychological tests that would help root out violent behavior. I think that in addition we would add community policing, and you should live in the community you are sworn to protect and have cops and volunteers to "patrol" wherein patrolling is redefined as a "walkabout". Basically they would go about the community, engage their community and actually be a positive part of it. We need to drill "Protect & Serve" into actual protection and serving. Basically every cop should be Luke Cage. 
Koalas March fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 20:42
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If only we could lead these poor ignorant black folks to the correct view that I, as a white leftist, have of Hillary.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:42
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Majorian posted:I like how reflexively you erase a woman of color's perspective when it doesn't line up with your narrative. is this meant to be a joke about how KM said "hillary clinton did good things for black people" and you directly quoted her and said "actually she's done bad things" are you that compelled to poo poo talk hillary clinton every five minutes that you don't realize what you're posting aside from said poo poo talk
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Sep 22, 2017 20:42
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Majorian posted:But that view of Clinton and the Democrats seems to only take part of the picture into account. There's a lot of other stuff on their record that's pretty awful. Shouldn't that also factor into it? This is a pretty dumb post dude. Even if you think they should dislike Hillary, they don't. Not everyone thinks like you do, and community outreach (which I'm not informed about but I believe Koala's March when she says Hillary engaged in it well) counts for a lot
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Sep 22, 2017 20:42
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Majorian posted:I like how reflexively you erase a woman of color's perspective when it doesn't line up with your narrative. Are you a WoC? because if not you are using them pretty grossly right now.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:42
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Those policies were called "desperation" and "nowhere else to go". Koalas March posted:Believe it or not there are democrats who have worked extensively with the black community. Hillary Clinton is one of them. Also: quote:said Amanda Brown Lierman, political director of the DNC, in a statement. “We're organizing around the values we share — access to affordable health care, the dignity of a good-paying job with good benefits and a path to retirement security, and a quality education that opens the doors of opportunity." I really hate that framing. "Access" is the most mealy mouthed bullshit third-wayism has foisted upon us. Access is a feel good unquantifiable term. It's like saying everyone in NYC has "access" to affordable housing. It's a lie. I also "love" the slavish adherence to jobs and education as a panacea. As if the only problems within American society are a lack of healthcare, education, and employment "access."
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Sep 22, 2017 20:43
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Majorian posted:But that view of Clinton and the Democrats seems to only take part of the picture into account. There's a lot of other stuff on their record that's pretty awful. Shouldn't that also factor into it? what about ism . t x loving t. seriously Majoran, why is every one of your posts A: about how  is bad B: democrats shouldn't be voted for or C: PoC don't vote the right way (IE why are they voting for democrats)What is your goal with the line of inquiry you chose in that post.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:43
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Majorian posted:I like how reflexively you erase a woman of color's perspective when it doesn't line up with your narrative. There are four threads for attacking hillary. Go live there, please. As for this healthcare bill... surely it's the same as pre-trump, right? They're just proving they want to pass it while making McCain jump on the proverbial grenade right?
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Sep 22, 2017 20:43
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boner confessor posted:is this meant to be a joke about how KM said "hillary clinton did good things for black people" and you directly quoted her and said "actually she's done bad things" It's a reference to the fact that the piece I cited was by a woman of color who is critical of Hillary Clinton and thinks that her record on race is spottier than is commonly assumed. And you ignored it, because it doesn't fit with your narrative.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:43
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Koalas March posted:what if instead of circular firing about racist accusations we talk about combating racism and our goals to reform the justice system from top down. Here are my thoughts on it: Justice System: 1) Police body cameras, mandatory suspension without pay if the camera is ever off, and if someone dies at police hands while the camera is off explicit legislative language that allows this to be treated as evidence of guilt. 2) A federal task force with the power to investigate and root out white supremacy in our police forces. Somehow there must be some funding tied to this to give it teeth - ie the local departments lose funding if they don't cooperate, get bonus funding if they do, etc. 3) A new federal statute allowing federal prosecutors to indict police officers for excessive force 4) Legalization of marijuana 5) Decriminalization of all drugs 6) Federal prohibition on private prisons 7, Bonus) Complete replacement of all currently serving US police officers withing the next 5 years. 8, Double Bonus) Just get rid of police. Economics: Standard lefty stuff. Universal Pre-K, Negative Income tax, UHC, free post secondary education, etc. There's more to racism than economics, but economics are a big part of it. Increasing economic equality for all would help black and brown Americans tremendously. Other: I haven't made it all the way through The Case for Reparations. It's really difficult to read. But, I've read enough that I'm convinced. As a political matter, selling reparations for slavery would be really difficult politically, of course. Maybe it's small ball, but I think a case really could be sold to the general white public for reparations for some narrow 20th century discrimination. Like he talks about how white GIs got to take advantage of the GI bill but black GIs didn't because of housing policy in place at the time. And, the white grandads that were able to get super great financing on super great suburban houses created wealth that moved down through the generations, including a good number of 3rd+ generation white Americans today. I think that makes it easier to show how some white folks are still profiting from that racism, and I think a lot of whites might accept it more easily than they accept arguments that they're still benefiting from slavery. And we've still got WWII and Korea and Vietnam service records, so it's easier to show "my dad/grandad fought in x war and got screwed coming home!" than it is to show "my great great great granddad was literally property and built your country." It's also easier to calculate the net benefits that they were screwed out of. I don't know - maybe it's just as impossible as a more robust reparations. And it's still a limitation on what African Americans deserve simply for the preservation of white fee fees.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:43
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