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Lord Hydronium posted:See, I quite like Jabba's cameo, because it really makes him feel like an institution of Tatooine. He's not just an obstacle that shows up at the end of the saga to give Luke something to do in the first half of ROTJ, he's a hugely important part of Tatooine society who's been around since the days of the Old Republic (and who was a big deal even then, so he's been around longer than the saga itself). It's not "necessary" in a plot sense - you could easily tell TPM's story without him - but I think it's a really cool addition to Jabba's character and the sense of Tatooine as a place. I'd actually put it as one of the better OT cameos. It does make him seem like an institution, what I don't like about his inclusion is that it's the wrong kind of institution. I guess all rulers are gangsters so it works on that level, but going from shady drug/sex den Jabba to Roman Emperor Jabba still is a weird jump, no matter how many orgies the Romans had.
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Sep 22, 2017 09:18
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I think it works because it highlights exactly how hosed Tatooine has always been. Jabba isn't running some sort of hidden slave ring behind his palace doors. It's systemic, and the Republic (and the Jedi) choose to do nothing about it because they believe disrupting the system is worse than allowing slavery to continue as long as it's out of sight and mind.
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Sep 22, 2017 09:24
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Grendels Dad posted:It does make him seem like an institution, what I don't like about his inclusion is that it's the wrong kind of institution. I guess all rulers are gangsters so it works on that level, but going from shady drug/sex den Jabba to Roman Emperor Jabba still is a weird jump, no matter how many orgies the Romans had. its not a shady sex/drug den its a mobsters nightclub
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Sep 22, 2017 10:00
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banned from Starbucks posted:its not a shady sex/drug den its a mobsters nightclub It's not a nightclub. There are no patrons in Jabba's castle, they're all his henchmen and/or slaves. He has strippers performing for his own personal amusement, but it's not like you can just come for a drink, watch the strippers get eaten, and leave again.
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Sep 22, 2017 10:11
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No its a nightclub. Complete with bouncers, guest list a full band and huge musical performances. He has dedicated droids to serve people drinks.
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Sep 22, 2017 10:35
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banned from Starbucks posted:No its a nightclub. Complete with bouncers, guest list a full band and huge musical performances. He has dedicated droids to serve people drinks. Maybe I have a narrow definition of the concept of a nightclub, but for me a key part of a nightclub is that it has patrons. You know, like the cantina in ANH. If that were a bit posher and bigger, I might call it a nightclub. Jabba place has been called a palace, it has guards and a court that he entertains with music and games. Also, the droids serve drinks on the pleasure barge, which again is not a nightclub, it's a pleasure barge.
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Sep 22, 2017 11:00
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The whole back wall opposite Jabba is little alcoves with people sitting around tables with drinks and stuff watching entertainment. It def has more than just a "place where his cronies go to get the next bounty contract" feel to it. Also theres really no difference between the palace and barge. Its filled entirely with the same people who moments ago were all in the palace. His patrons are all getting served booze inside while his henchmen are riding on the little flying dingys.
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Sep 22, 2017 11:42
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banned from Starbucks posted:The whole back wall opposite Jabba is little alcoves with people sitting around tables with drinks and stuff watching entertainment. It def has more than just a "place where his cronies go to get the next bounty contract" feel to it. Also theres really no difference between the palace and barge. Its filled entirely with the same people who moments ago were all in the palace. His patrons are all getting served booze inside while his henchmen are riding on the little flying dingys. So the patrons just hang out there for days on end?
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Sep 22, 2017 11:47
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The weirdest part is the outside of the palace isn't at all inviting, but the inside is kinda a nightclub. It's kinda like a coke palace, full of his hangers-on and ''friends'' who're down to do whatever.
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Sep 22, 2017 11:48
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Grendels Dad posted:So the patrons just hang out there for days on end? Sure? I mean its not like a casino is gonna go up to someone and be like "poo poo youre still here spending money? Go home"
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Sep 22, 2017 11:52
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banned from Starbucks posted:Panaka is just a clueless racist. Hes just repeating what hes heard about a planet hes never been to. Which is why he stays on the ship. Its like saying We cant take her majesty to Hollywood its controlled by the Jews. Probably smart she's pretty young.
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Sep 22, 2017 13:39
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banned from Starbucks posted:Sure? I mean its not like a casino is gonna go up to someone and be like "poo poo youre still here spending money? Go home" Though they'll probably kick people out when they start sleeping on the floor. Unlike Jabba's Palace. Bongo Bill posted:The sequel to the movie in which Jabba is assassinated depicts him, briefly, at the height of his power. Retroactively it makes it so that the objective of Luke's raid was not merely to storm the hideout of some gangster, but to overthrow the ruler of his home planet. It is the capstone on the film's depiction of Tatooine. This also adds to the characterization of Owen, softening further its criticism of his attempts to remain apolitical and live with the Empire, in that its rise did not bring much change to the world; it's just always been like that. See now, this? This I like. I take back my earlier complaint about Jabba in TPM.
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Sep 22, 2017 13:42
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Bongo Bill posted:I'm pretty sure Jabba's dad is also in the establishing shots in the podrace. Of course, don't they show a second member of Yoda's species at some point, too? euphronius posted:Iirc there is a second hutt in the traditional Roman emperor box seat That's Gardulla the Hutt, who Anakin mentions used to be his owner until Watto won them in a podrace bet. The reading of Luke's takedown of Jabba being heightened by TPM is cool. I've always seen Luke's homecoming as being really foolhardy, with him trying his best to prove that he's strong and badass and just barely squeaking out a win. Like a cocky college kid coming back to his one-horse town and trying to...blow up...his old high school principal. Hmmm
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Sep 22, 2017 15:21
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Ingmar terdman posted:Like a cocky college kid coming back to his one-horse town and trying to...blow up...his old high school principal. Hmmm  Also dresses in black, checks out.
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Sep 22, 2017 15:33
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banned from Starbucks posted:Panaka is just a clueless racist. Panaka actually ended up the Moff of the Naboo system and figured out that Leia was Padme's daughter. Leia assassinated him before he could tell her/anyone else.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:25
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PriorMarcus posted:Panaka actually ended up the Moff of the Naboo system and figured out that Leia was Padme's daughter. Leia assassinated him before he could tell her/anyone else. IIRC, he was also the one who told Palpatine about Anakin and Padme's marriage.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:27
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I had the Panaka action figure. He was a cool and honorable dude and the EU will not bersmirch his reputation.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:58
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Grendels Dad posted:So the patrons just hang out there for days on end? It's probably got lodging and where else are you gonna go while you're getting ship repairs or waiting for a part to come in? Mos Eisley? gently caress that poo poo
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Sep 22, 2017 17:21
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Jabba is both a kingpin and a king. Whereas an ordinary crime syndicate uses leverage over government officials to gain impunity, Jabba's crime syndicate is a heightened version of that where he just is the government. Star Wars has lots of things that are two things.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:45
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The pod races being run by the space-mafia is a fairly important plot point; Quigon gets away with cheating by threatening to have Watto whacked. It's also part of the theme that 'there's always a bigger fish'. Watto is a minor nuisance compared to this planet-wide criminal empire.
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Sep 22, 2017 20:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The pod races being run by the space-mafia is a fairly important plot point; Quigon gets away with cheating by threatening to have Watto whacked. And Jabba has such a stranglehold that Watto makes a joke about Qui-Gon being a Jedi, because in his mind, no Jedi would dare come out there.
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Sep 22, 2017 21:52
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One problem I have with all this is how little of it shows in ANH, the movie that constitutes Tatooine's reputation as a backwater shithole kinda sorta in the grasp of criminals. But it's the Empire we see in control of Tatooine there, the only guy ever worried about Jabba is Han. The connection between RotJ and TPM works fine now that I had time to think about it, Jabba really comes across as a decadent ruler in RotJ, which fits nicely with the Roman thing in TPM . But the Tatooine of ANH almost seemed too lovely to have a despot like that. The planet and society depicted in ANH is more like whatshisname desert planet in TFA, plus imperial supervision.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:06
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Grendels Dad posted:One problem I have with all this is how little of it shows in ANH, the movie that constitutes Tatooine's reputation as a backwater shithole kinda sorta in the grasp of criminals. But it's the Empire we see in control of Tatooine there, the only guy ever worried about Jabba is Han. The connection between RotJ and TPM works fine now that I had time to think about it, Jabba really comes across as a decadent ruler in RotJ, which fits nicely with the Roman thing in TPM . But the Tatooine of ANH almost seemed too lovely to have a despot like that. The planet and society depicted in ANH is more like whatshisname desert planet in TFA, plus imperial supervision. A lot of what we see in ANH is Luke's perspective on Tatooine. Ironically given Lynch almost directed it, RotJ has a Blue Velvet thing going on where he discovers his boring hometown has thriving criminal and bdsm scenes
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Sep 22, 2017 22:12
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DeimosRising posted:A lot of what we see in ANH is Luke's perspective on Tatooine. Ironically given Lynch almost directed it, RotJ has a Blue Velvet thing going on where he discovers his boring hometown has thriving criminal and bdsm scenes That makes Luke's demeanor at Jabba's place extra funny, kid is trying very hard not to notice the hookers.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:21
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Grendels Dad posted:That makes Luke's demeanor at Jabba's place extra funny, kid is trying very hard not to notice the hookers. Even as a kid I read him like that, he wants to look cool so bad he won't even scope the titties cause titties are like, blase. I've seen hella titties before, plus I'm a monk?
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Sep 22, 2017 22:23
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Jabba has taken a fall between TPM and ROTJ. In TPM he's a louche emperor, seeing people live and die in the pod race for his amusement, sole despot on a planet outside the control of the republic. By ROTJ, (presumably at the instigation of Vader!) Tatooine has been brought under the heel of the Empire and Jabba is a petty tyrant in exile, wallowing in the shadow of his former role in a dank speakeasy surrounded by lickspittles and scum.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:56
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josh04 posted:Jabba has taken a fall between TPM and ROTJ. In TPM he's a louche emperor, seeing people live and die in the pod race for his amusement, sole despot on a planet outside the control of the republic. By ROTJ, (presumably at the instigation of Vader!) Tatooine has been brought under the heel of the Empire and Jabba is a petty tyrant in exile, wallowing in the shadow of his former role in a dank speakeasy surrounded by lickspittles and scum. I like that road, but there is still the bump of ANH. I guess by ANH Jabba is desperate enough to let a good smuggler disrespect him and get away with owing him money, but it lacks the clarity I'd like for a reading like this. I might need to rewatch ANH though.
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Sep 22, 2017 23:23
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Which version of ANH are you watching? Its best to ignore the added jabba scene from the Lucas Edition
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Sep 22, 2017 23:36
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The funny thing is, either version, is that Han, hiding from a crime boss he's on the run from, chose to hang out on the very planet the crime lord is based.
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Sep 22, 2017 23:43
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banned from Starbucks posted:Which version of ANH are you watching? Its best to ignore the added jabba scene from the Lucas Edition They are all Lucas editions And he's in the theatrical release.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:07
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But we know even in Empire that there are bounty hunters all over the galaxy looking for Han. Both from the dialogue Han has with that General as he's trying to leave, and the fact that at least one of the bounty hunters the Empire employs is looking for Han for that reason. So that already implies it's not a low-level thing.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:08
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Beeez posted:But we know even in Empire that there are bounty hunters all over the galaxy looking for Han. Both from the dialogue Han has with that General as he's trying to leave, and the fact that at least one of the bounty hunters the Empire employs is looking for Han for that reason. So that already implies it's not a low-level thing. That is an escalation of the events of ANH, though. Like, Jabba could still be a low-level thug on rear end planet X, being disrespected like that demands retribution.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:14
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Davros1 posted:The funny thing is, either version, is that Han, hiding from a crime boss he's on the run from, chose to hang out on the very planet the crime lord is based. Han is both very brave and very stupid. I also get the impression that his dumping of the cargo was a very recent thing, done while he was en route to Tatooine, and the bounty was placed on his head because Jabba caught wind that he had landed there with an empty ship. Han is still somewhat in Jabba's good graces in A New Hope. He's able to talk his way past him and fly off, after all. The bounty is honestly more of a way of sending a message, a summons. Things only go wrong between them when it has become clear that he isn't coming back, and that, too, is more about the betrayal than the money.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:15
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Grendels Dad posted:I like that road, but there is still the bump of ANH. I guess by ANH Jabba is desperate enough to let a good smuggler disrespect him and get away with owing him money, but it lacks the clarity I'd like for a reading like this. I might need to rewatch ANH though. He's still powerful, and wealthy. He's just the old order, and if they ever had cause to Vader and the Emperor would sweep him away at a stroke like they do the Senate at the start of ANH.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:35
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Jabba isnt some shmuck. Its clear hes respected by Vader since hes hiring Jabbas men and lets Fett bring Han to him even agreeing to compensate him for whatever value Jabba claims hes worth. Vader would even be justified in wiping him out since its Jabba who lets slavery exist on tatooine which resulted in his poo poo childhood. Yet he does nothing.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:44
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Bongo Bill posted:Han is both very brave and very stupid. Not sure I follow because Greedo was going to kill him .
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Sep 23, 2017 02:59
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euphronius posted:Not sure I follow because Greedo was going to kill him . Greedo is also very brave and very stupid.
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Sep 23, 2017 03:04
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Did those Storm Troopers who killed Owen and Beru pour lyme on them or something? Why the gently caress are they skeletons? the prequels suck btw
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Sep 23, 2017 07:51
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Yaws posted:Did those Storm Troopers who killed Owen and Beru pour lyme on them or something? Why the gently caress are they skeletons? They were set on fire.
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Sep 23, 2017 08:00
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Gonz posted:They were set on fire. Even fire doesn't burn people to the bone that quickly though, right? I didn't think Luke was gone that long. edit: Like when they found the bodies of Hitler and Goebbels they didn't find skeletal remains. They found charred bodies. Yaws fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Sep 23, 2017 |
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Sep 23, 2017 08:01
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