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Archer666 posted:Right. I'll break it down then: I think PDP and Notch have a right to the money they legally earned by doing the work they did. They're dicks and need to get their poo poo together, but they still have a right to what they earned. Ok so how much should Notch get for being the guy Microsoft negotiated with to pay for the work that other people did? How much should PDP get for talking over the work that other people did? Is their current compensation proportional to the work that they did?
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Sep 23, 2017 22:02
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Who What Now posted:I see the problem here. You think they earned that money for some reason. Hey now, he might strike it lucky one day and stop being a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. He needs to stick up for rich arseholes now, in case he manages to become one.
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Sep 23, 2017 23:15
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Archer666 posted:Right. I'll break it down then: I think PDP and Notch have a right to the money they legally earned by doing the work they did. They're dicks and need to get their poo poo together, but they still have a right to what they earned. He arguably earned what he made while "working" on minecraft. He didn't earn what microsoft paid him. But that's Microsoft's fault.
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Sep 23, 2017 23:23
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Regarde Aduck posted:He arguably earned what he made while "working" on minecraft Argue it then, given that he didn't come up with the concept and the implementation he did come up with had to be fixed by other people. Do you think he deserves the payout that he got, given the amount of work he put in?
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Sep 24, 2017 00:02
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OwlFancier posted:You mean using the law to prohibit being rich? That would depend on the tax rate. Rigged Death Trap posted:nah man gently caress that and remove tax credits for charity. No government is that efficient, I'm sure there will always be areas of need.
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Sep 24, 2017 07:03
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Actually governments can be plenty efficient to invalidate the need for almost all charity, people just don't want them to be.
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Sep 24, 2017 07:43
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twitter really needs to stop shadowbanning for swearing if they're not going to ban racists.
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Sep 24, 2017 11:02
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Somfin posted:Ok so how much should Notch get for being the guy Microsoft negotiated with to pay for the work that other people did? Regarde Aduck posted:He arguably earned what he made while "working" on minecraft. He didn't earn what microsoft paid him. But that's Microsoft's fault. In my opinion he earned that money by not only creating the game from scratch, but also co-founding the company that would maintain and expand up on his idea. Its hard to find information on what he was doing during his time at Mojang, but I'm almost certain it was a lot more than just his own lead programming duties. Somfin posted:How much should PDP get for talking over the work that other people did? You mean how much worth is PDP's work cycle of daily recording and editing his work, alongside maintaining his brand and his numerous side-projects? Somfin posted:Is their current compensation proportional to the work that they did? One guy's idea and work spawned a smash-hit video game that's still selling like hotcakes and the other guy found a goldmine by making silly videos that appeal to kids. Both of them could have hosed up royally and have been much worse off than they are now, but they haven't. I feel you're underestimating the amount of work they've done to get where they are. Its a difficult question to answer, regardless. On one hand its obvious to say no, no work could ever be worth the amount that Notch earned. But on the other hand, seeing the reach of their work and how it has impacted on society and the fans it has spawned, its difficult for me to outright dismiss the idea too.
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Sep 24, 2017 12:26
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Unless you think that he went out and individually handed copies of minecraft to people you should be taking into account the very obvious fact that the success of minecraft depends on vastly more things than one dude having the idea. Like if you drop baby notch in a field at birth and the end result 20 years later is still minecraft ex nihilo, then sure it's all his doing. Otherwise it's the product of everything that went into it.
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Sep 24, 2017 12:47
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OwlFancier posted:Unless you think that he went out and individually handed copies of minecraft to people you should be taking into account the very obvious fact that the success of minecraft depends on vastly more things than one dude having the idea. I was more thinking along of the lines of Minecraft starting as a solo-project that he worked on solo in 2008-2009. The idea and work of Minecraft began with him. Archer666 fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 12:52
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Archer666 posted:I was more thinking along of the lines of Minecraft starting as a solo-project that he worked on solo in 2008-2009. The idea and work of Minecraft began with him. Well no the idea is ripped from infiniminer, and the very notion of computer programming is the result of enormous amounts of preceding labour done by other people.
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Sep 24, 2017 12:58
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Archer666 posted:One guy's idea and work spawned a smash-hit video game that's still selling like hotcakes and the other guy found a goldmine by making silly videos that appeal to kids. Both of them could have hosed up royally and have been much worse off than they are now, but they haven't. I feel you're underestimating the amount of work they've done to get where they are. why didn't he give the people that actually got minecraft to the 2 billion dollar level a cut? and like owlfancier said minecraft was ripped off from infiniminer.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:10
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OwlFancier posted:Well no the idea is ripped from infiniminer, and the very notion of computer programming is the result of enormous amounts of preceding labour done by other people. And to be honest it was successful in spite of notch rather than because of him.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:12
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There's also the socialst/communist idea that you have to consider all work hours needed for any given work. The teachers that educated the programmers, the farmers who produced food, the factory workers that produced the necessary hardware, you get the idea. That's why you would ideally tax people like notch more in the 99% bracket, since the very idea that they alone earned their vast fortune is absurd.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:35
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Junkozeyne posted:There's also the socialst/communist idea that you have to consider all work hours needed for any given work. The teachers that educated the programmers, the farmers who produced food, the factory workers that produced the necessary hardware, you get the idea. That's why you would ideally tax people like notch more in the 99% bracket, since the very idea that they alone earned their vast fortune is absurd. That is precisely the angle I approach it from, it's staggeringly arrogant to ignore the vast amount of labour that goes into sustaining a society that can produce things and just reducing it to "well this guy had an idea and it's cos of him we have stuff"
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Sep 24, 2017 13:36
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Groovelord Neato posted:why didn't he give the people that actually got minecraft to the 2 billion dollar level a cut? He actually did give everyone at Mojang 2-3 million bucks. Not exactly a small amount, at least not compared to their regular salary.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:49
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fallenturtle posted:What if making if instead of making it illegal you just had a super high tax rate for the ultra wealthy but they could earn tax credits via using their money through philanthropy (but with some sort of verification system to make sure its not actually laundering or some fake charity BS like Trump engages in.) There is no indication that the wealthy will be able to allocate their charity funds in a more useful way than the state or citizens. I mean, unless you're fine with billions of dollars going into religious "charities" that just turn into propaganda centers.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:56
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Junkozeyne posted:There's also the socialst/communist idea that you have to consider all work hours needed for any given work. The teachers that educated the programmers, the farmers who produced food, the factory workers that produced the necessary hardware, you get the idea. That's why you would ideally tax people like notch more in the 99% bracket, since the very idea that they alone earned their vast fortune is absurd. We all sort of stand on the shoulders of society. Why should notch earn billions while the guy who taught him how to program might be an adjunct prof earning ~25,000/year. Literally, no man is an island in modern society, but we continue to treat our incredibly complicated web of interactions as a bunch of individual and self-contained transactions.
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Sep 24, 2017 14:00
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Archer666 posted:He actually did give everyone at Mojang 2-3 million bucks. Not exactly a small amount, at least not compared to their regular salary. shoulda been like 100 per. shaun shared this doozy of a tweet: https://twitter.com/RoamingMil/status/911472250804690944 and in the replies what do i spy but this absolute loving gem: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/911689688011776000
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Sep 24, 2017 14:31
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Archer666 posted:In my opinion he earned that money by not only creating the game from scratch, Ahahahahahahahahaha
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Sep 24, 2017 14:34
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Groovelord Neato posted:shaun shared this doozy of a tweet:
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Sep 24, 2017 15:16
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Archer666 posted:In my opinion he earned that money by not only creating the game from scratch, but also co-founding the company that would maintain and expand up on his idea. Its hard to find information on what he was doing during his time at Mojang, but I'm almost certain it was a lot more than just his own lead programming duties. These criticisms of PDP and Notch seem to be more criticisms of capitalism since its capitalism that allows for them to be paid what the market thinks their work is worth and not what their critics think its worth.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:50
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pewdiepie having any sort of success is a pretty big indictment of capitalism.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:01
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Pembroke Fuse posted:There is no indication that the wealthy will be able to allocate their charity funds in a more useful way than the state or citizens. I mean, unless you're fine with billions of dollars going into religious "charities" that just turn into propaganda centers. Well that's why I mentioned the idea of having rules that govern what charitable givings can be worth tax credits. My thought behind this is that if we are taking away more of their wealth to run our society why not at least give them the perk of being able to have a say in what some of that money they earned goes towards (this is assuming we're talking about a market based economy still). I'm thinking along the lines of like the stuff Bill Gates does in Africa.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:02
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You're starting from the premise that they have a right to it in the first place and are owed some sort of compensation.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:03
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fallenturtle posted:My thought behind this is that if we are taking away more of their wealth to run our society why not at least give them the perk of being able to have a say in what some of that money they earned goes towards (this is assuming we're talking about a market based economy still). because they didn't "earn" it. nobody can earn billions of dollars. there aren't enough hours in a lifetime.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:07
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One of these days I'll do a YT video about how short buses have been unfairly used as a method of shame and expose all the non-special education related uses they have. Full Disclosure: I rode a short bus for special education related transport when I was a little kid. OwlFancier posted:You're starting from the premise that they have a right to it in the first place and are owed some sort of compensation. If there was some sort of agreement set up that he'll get X for doing Y, then yes, he is owed that compensation. Groovelord Neato posted:because they didn't "earn" it. nobody can earn billions of dollars. there aren't enough hours in a lifetime. That assumes there's a max amount of money that can be earned per hour. You don't need a billion hours to earn 2 billion dollars if you're paid at the rate of 1 billion per hour. Folks are making GBS threads on PDP and Notch for basically being assholes, but when it comes to their wealth, isn't more the fault of those who are willing to pay for their services and/or product?
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Sep 24, 2017 18:24
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NEW CONTRA POINTS!  The Left Contra posted:Political videos tend not to be interpreted very charitably (I know this video is going to be upheld by centrists as evidence I’ve “gone full Antifa” and by leftists that I’m a closet centrist) so I’d better state unambiguously what I think. I haven't watched it yet though? Kind of in the middle of another thing. But yeah, When it comes to the first paragraph on Tabby and the Antifa, as much as I cheer them on. She's not wrong. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 19:09
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contra’s characters are so loving good! i can’t decide which i love most (it’s cockbane)
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Sep 24, 2017 19:31
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Archer666 posted:One guy's idea and work spawned a smash-hit video game that's still selling like hotcakes and the other guy found a goldmine by making silly videos that appeal to kids. Both of them could have hosed up royally and have been much worse off than they are now, but they haven't. I feel you're underestimating the amount of work they've done to get where they are. notch really hit the lottery, minecraft is a bad game from a code and design perspective but he was wildly successful with children which is why he got a massive payout
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Sep 24, 2017 19:33
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I'm still chuckling at the idea that Notch shamelessly stole the idea wholesale and got other people to make it for him, but somehow he is the one most deserving of the money for the thing he's barely responsible for.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:09
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forums project: let's kidnap and tortue pewdiepie/notch and then kill them for the crime of making money off media that's not targeted at us 
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Sep 24, 2017 22:30
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BigRed0427 posted:NEW CONTRA POINTS! New Labor was already a thing and it was a loving disaster. She's in the same neighborhood as wrong.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:22
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Dmitri-9 posted:New Labor was already a thing and it was a loving disaster. She's in the same neighborhood as wrong. I think there is a difference here. Not least the fact that Contra isn't thinking of herself as Tony Blair (which is always nice). There is no attempt to say that bashing Facists is neccesarily even bad, just that it can be quite insular in some parts. Sometimes you have to talk with people to change their mind, and its better done with people who don't almost exactly agree with you. I don't always agree with her, but I find the whole series a very nice introduction for people getting into leftism. We may all have been there long beforehand, but it's a good intro. Alongside that the videos about trans stuff helped explain that to me in a basic way.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:28
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Contra very much understands the need for self-defense. The chuds have been doxxing her. She knows she's pretty high on the list of kinds of people they want to kill.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:36
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little munchkin posted:forums project: let's kidnap and tortue pewdiepie/notch and then kill them for the crime of making money off media that's not targeted at us That's what you take away from this? Notch is an idea thief. PDP tells kids racism is cool. They both make boatloads of money.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:42
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business hammocks posted:Contra very much understands the need for self-defense. The chuds have been doxxing her. She knows she's pretty high on the list of kinds of people they want to kill. Urgh, I didn't know this.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:44
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Josef bugman posted:Urgh, I didn't know this. Yeah...drat, Contra is getting to? I shouldn't be shocked but...  . THeres another Trans Artists, the girl that does Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl, who's getting her Facebook false flagged, to the point that Facebook ahs warned her that if it keeps happening shes going to be kicked off it for good. gently caress, I wanna do more to keep this poo poo from happening but I dont know what.But as for the video, i'll repost what I mean fromt he Internet Critic thread. BigRed0427 posted:Same here. If I ever had to pick between these two I will pick the Antifa Cat girl every time. But I do get where Contra is coming from in her criticisms of her.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:51
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I'm not sure how I feel about Contra's last video, I couldn't bear to watch the entire thing yet. It feels... Alienating? Not sure if that's the best way to describe it, just want to check if that's just me. I like Contrapoints a lot, the Baltimore video is probably the one that made the biggest impression on me, tell me your favorite Contrapoints video.
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Sep 25, 2017 03:17
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Her video on Gender DIsphoria. It's Not EXACTLY my experience with it but It's a great video on what realizing you are trans is like. Or at the very least realizing "Something not right wit my body. The gently caress?"
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Sep 25, 2017 03:23
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