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Shinjobi posted:More Moon Moon. Look. It's 2017. Chaos reigns. You just have to roll with it at some point.
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Sep 25, 2017 07:11
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I enjoyed Moon Moon, and I'm just feeling really sad and empty and hollow with this news.
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Sep 25, 2017 07:12
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Shinjobi posted:I enjoyed Moon Moon, and I'm just feeling really sad and empty and hollow with this news. Again, it's 2017. That's normal. More seriously, you got an idea why? Because for me, it just feels more UC, cashing in on "the weird episodes" to try and get some attention when there's a new Gundam series every few months, and I can see that being irritating if you liked "the weird ones".
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Sep 25, 2017 07:26
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UC more like Poo C. Give me Frozen Teardrop already!
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Sep 25, 2017 07:27
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I marathonned Gundam the Origin episodes 1-4 because I noticed they were on Hulu. I'm kind of in a Gundam mood now and I think I'm finally going to get around to watching Iron Blooded Orphans now. I didn't bother with the Origin before because I had read the manga already, but the OVA is really, really good. Which is partially because the manga was very good. I really like the Origin manga. The artwork is insanely gorgeous and it makes a lot of small retcons here and there to correct things that didn't make a lot of sense in the original series. The flashback stuff was a pretty decent prequel to Gundam, even though it suffers from Star Wars syndrome a little bit where everyone knows everyone. But that didn't really bother me in the anime version, probably because it's in chronological order. I know they were just planning on doing the flashback stuff, but I really hope they do actually make the part of the Origin that was a retelling of the original series, because in my eyes, between the original TV show, the movie trilogy and the Origin manga, I really see the Origin as the "definitive" version of Gundam. Sadly I hear the sequel Zeta Gundam manga isn't super great. Which is a shame, because I feel like it would be great just to have a complete "revised" UC continuity with First Gundam and Zeta being roughly the same, but with ZZ and CCA being totally different. I know some of you guys are big fans of ZZ and that's fine, there is definitely some good stuff in that show, but overall it has issues. ZZ could really benefit from from fixing up. And I never really liked CCA honestly. It didn't feel like a satisfying conclusion to the whole Amuro \ Char thing and had some of the most annoying characters in the whole series.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:08
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I really like the Origin but I will always be completely loving baffled the part in episode 2 where one of the assassins inexplicably wears knight armour.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:11
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Well episode 2 is the weakest by far for not having a specific plot, just jumping between stuff char is doing and Dozle's R&D lab. I it's all fine, but it's unfocused compared to the stronger episodes having a definitive A plot with tangential B and C stories. Dawn of Rebellion was loving great.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:28
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Monaghan posted:I really like the Origin but I will always be completely loving baffled the part in episode 2 where one of the assassins inexplicably wears knight armour.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:36
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Monaghan posted:I really like the Origin but I will always be completely loving baffled the part in episode 2 where one of the assassins inexplicably wears knight armour. I can't remember if that was in the original manga, because it's been a while since I read it. I assume that anime must add a lot of stuff, because while the flashback was pretty darn lengthy (like three whole hardcover volumes), each episode has a runtime of over an hour and I don't know if there's 7 hours of screentime in those 3 volumes of the book. That said, Gundam has always had this weird thing where it's very, very anachronistic. Sure, part of it is due to it being an old sci-fi series so you have stuff like cassette tapes and so on showing up in the far future. But Gundam also takes a lot of stuff straight from WWII (obviously) and has a lot of Victorian style homes and clothing out in space. Even though it's a science fiction series with giant robots and space colonies, it often doesn't look very futuristic and instead has kind of modern-day or an old-timey look a lot of the time.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:18
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Gammatron 64 posted:I can't remember if that was in the original manga, because it's been a while since I read it. I assume that anime must add a lot of stuff, because while the flashback was pretty darn lengthy (like three whole hardcover volumes), each episode has a runtime of over an hour and I don't know if there's 7 hours of screentime in those 3 volumes of the book. No, the Origin doesn't add much. It's just that it takes a lot more time to portray dialogue and movemnet than it does to do static images. It's almost too loyal and actually cuts some stuff out.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:20
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Gammatron 64 posted:That said, Gundam has always had this weird thing where it's very, very anachronistic. Sure, part of it is due to it being an old sci-fi series so you have stuff like cassette tapes and so on showing up in the far future. But Gundam also takes a lot of stuff straight from WWII (obviously) and has a lot of Victorian style homes and clothing out in space. Even though it's a science fiction series with giant robots and space colonies, it often doesn't look very futuristic and instead has kind of modern-day or an old-timey look a lot of the time. In the past twenty, hell, ten years we've had massive leaps in processing power and technology. We still have the same houses and general clothing styles.
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Sep 25, 2017 18:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:In the past twenty, hell, ten years we've had massive leaps in processing power and technology. We still have the same houses and general clothing styles. Yeah. I'm not complaining about this, mind you. It's just something that I noticed. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's kind of interesting how Gundam has a lot of old fashioned stuff in it. Like, clothes, architecture and cars that were outdated by 1979, let alone today, to the point where I begin to wonder if it's something they do on purpose. There's like... a lot of old-fashioned European style mansions in space. And sometimes they wear frilly Victorian clothes and old timey military uniforms with tassels on them. Granted, it's mostly Wing that does this, but I've seen that kind of thing in other series too, like F91 and so on. And I've only seen one episode of Iron Blooded Orphans so far, but in it, the rich girl lives in a castle and has a very old fashioned frilly dress. That, and the Zeon dress like goofier versions of WWI\WWII Germans but the reason behind that is kind of obvious. And yeah in Turn A, everyone wears Victorian clothes and have turn of the century-era tech, but the reason behind that is also kind of obvious. I've put way too much thought into this, honestly.
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Sep 25, 2017 18:52
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chiasaur11 posted:Again, it's 2017. That's normal. There is so much you can still explore in the UC, and going out of their way to return to Moon Moon is just the dumbest, most pointless thing I can think of. Hell, I honestly thought it was a photoshop at first, because of how much people typically hate Moon Moon.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:20
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Shinjobi posted:There is so much you can still explore in the UC, and going out of their way to return to Moon Moon is just the dumbest, most pointless thing I can think of. Really, the only way they could probably make this not terrible is to embrace the dumbness of the setting. Go full Indiana Jones with Bright Noa standing in for Indy's dad. Make this a race between the protagonist and some Neo Neo Zeon thugs to find the Gundam in Moon Moon. And end it with the Gundam being activated and evaporating everyone with its beam cannon. 
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Sep 25, 2017 19:42
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Shinjobi posted:There is so much you can still explore in the UC, and going out of their way to return to Moon Moon is just the dumbest, most pointless thing I can think of. I disagree entirely. The idea of colonies getting cut off from each other because of war and Minovsky particles and developing their own unique culture is really interesting to me. I'm glad they're exploring Moon Moon more.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:59
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Maybe some Japanese fans really like Moon Moon. I dunno, I can't read Japanese. Of course, it probably stems from irony. Cucuruz Doan's Island is basically a meme. So hence you now get a manga based on the infamous episode and he shows up as a player character in Gundam Vs. etc.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:34
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Monaghan posted:I really like the Origin but I will always be completely loving baffled the part in episode 2 where one of the assassins inexplicably wears knight armour. Yeah I was expecting Kycillia or someone else. Just a dude in a suit who wanted to get his cosplay on 
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Sep 25, 2017 23:36
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Moon Moon is unironically good.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:47
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PenguinKnight posted:Yeah I was expecting Kycillia or someone else. Just a dude in a suit who wanted to get his cosplay on he was playing hitman and changed costumes to lower suspicion
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Sep 26, 2017 01:49
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they dont explain it but one of the colonies is a medieval kingdom for some reason and the zabis wanted to make it look like it was those guys
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Sep 26, 2017 02:37
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Gammatron 64 posted:Sadly I hear the sequel Zeta Gundam manga isn't super great. Which is a shame, because I feel like it would be great just to have a complete "revised" UC continuity with First Gundam and Zeta being roughly the same, but with ZZ and CCA being totally different. I know some of you guys are big fans of ZZ and that's fine, there is definitely some good stuff in that show, but overall it has issues. ZZ could really benefit from from fixing up. And I never really liked CCA honestly. It didn't feel like a satisfying conclusion to the whole Amuro \ Char thing and had some of the most annoying characters in the whole series. I started to read Zeta Define because I liked the idea of a Zeta reshuffle and I got a bunch of volumes cheap at a used books store. It's not incredibly bad but the artist, while quite good with the details, just isn't that good at conveying action in pictures, though I may be spoiled on that front because I'm also reading the excellent 0083 Rebellion. There's a few problems on the story side early on too, the theft of the Mk-II plays out just a little too smoothly with Bright suddenly joining AEUG from the outset and also adds a completely unnecessary implied possible rape. 
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Sep 26, 2017 03:24
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I really like moon moon and the idea of it at least, and Moon Moon is where ZZ stops being utter trash.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:55
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all of your brains must be broke because moon moon was the worst part of ZZ. I finished season 1 of IBO and it was much better than I was expecting. Mika was unique as far as Gundam protagonist go in the fact that he had no qualms about getting his hands dirty. Orga was a somewhat more predictable character, obviously a foil for Mika's passiveness and the main character driver. The Gaelio/McGillis thing seemed a bit forced but I assume it will be the focus of season two. It felt like they weren't sure if they were getting a second season until the last episode, with the way they resolve the plot hooks and "potential" deaths. That or they wanted to off everyone but someone reined that in at the last minute. Onto season two I guess
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Sep 26, 2017 07:27
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RillAkBea posted:I started to read Zeta Define because I liked the idea of a Zeta reshuffle and I got a bunch of volumes cheap at a used books store. It's not incredibly bad but the artist, while quite good with the details, just isn't that good at conveying action in pictures, though I may be spoiled on that front because I'm also reading the excellent 0083 Rebellion. There's a few problems on the story side early on too, the theft of the Mk-II plays out just a little too smoothly with Bright suddenly joining AEUG from the outset and also adds a completely unnecessary implied possible rape. If you want to be spoiled, Gundam: the Origin will do that. Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's artwork is incredible and some of the best art I have seen in a comic period, manga or otherwise. Anything that is a follow-up to the Origin that is drawn by a different artist has kind of an unfair standard to live up to. It's funny how such an ugly and poorly animated show gets such a gorgeous manga years later. I really do hope they do an episode 7 and onwards of the Origin and get to the part of the book that adapts the original anime. Now only does it look so nice, I also really like it how it stays very faithful to the original, but fills in a lot of minor plot holes and retcons things that didn't make a lot of sense. It's the same story, but with a lot of missing details added in. The Origin really is the definitive version of 'Gundam' in my book and I'd love to see the entire thing animated. I've said it before, but I'd really love to see the entire UC Gundam saga redone and 'cleaned up' like the Origin so everything is consistent. Like First Gundam, I think Zeta should stay mostly the same, but what I really want are remakes of ZZ and CCA that take some serious liberties with the stories. Those ones never really felt like they fit in or were very consistent with what came before. I'd like to see that originally planned version of ZZ that has Char returning and fighting against Haman instead of Glemy, and that could lead into CCA. And then in CCA, it feels like we've missed a ton of stuff, and that's because we have, because it was adapted from the 2nd half of Tomino's Hi-Streamer book. How were Amuro and Bright allowed back into the Federation after being AEUG rebels? How did Char come to lead Neo Zeon? I dunno. And I wouldn't mind if they followed Beltorchika's Children a little more, with Amuro being a family man with a pregnant wife as that's character growth. And you know, maybe they could cut down the Hathaway and Quess stuff, because those characters are annoying and take precious screen time away from Amuro and Char, you know, the characters people actually care about.
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Sep 26, 2017 13:58
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Gammatron 64 posted:I never really liked CCA honestly. It didn't feel like a satisfying conclusion to the whole Amuro \ Char thing and had some of the most annoying characters in the whole series. I'm with you on this. Char's Counterattacks is an okay film, but it's always felt unnecessary to me. I thought Zeta laid out a lot more interesting and relatable conclusion to Amuro and Char's relationship, where each of them recognized that the other had just been a soldier in a war and Lalah had died because of a mistake, which there was no point holding on to and blaming each other for; two weary soldiers attempting to move on with their lives and deal with other problems. Char's Counterattack almost resetting them to a 0079 finale relationship, so that it can basically replay the 0079 with bigger stakes just doesn't do anything for me. I don't want a big conclusion to their relationship, because it never stood as something that needs one after Zeta in my opinion. Shinjobi posted:There is so much you can still explore in the UC, and going out of their way to return to Moon Moon is just the dumbest, most pointless thing I can think of. Let's be honest, almost none of the mangas, novels or OVAs that occasionally come of them have particularly notable world building so it's not like exploring Moon-Moon instead of something else is a big missed opportunity, since wherever or whenever they set it, it probably wouldn't have explored much of the setting in the first place. Guy Goodbody posted:I disagree entirely. The idea of colonies getting cut off from each other because of war and Minovsky particles and developing their own unique culture is really interesting to me. I'm glad they're exploring Moon Moon more. The idea of a colony being cut off from the others and eventually developing their own unique culture is good; it happening in the space of 20 years or something, not so much. There's probably three generations of people still alive on Moon Moon who remember pre-cut off, so the whole place going tribal and antiquated is just weird. Gammatron 64 posted:Of course, it probably stems from irony. Cucuruz Doan's Island is basically a meme. After finally seeing "Doan's Island" a while back I really like the idea of it, with him atoning for killing some kids parents by deserting and trying to protect them. Him refusing to use guns is even kind of cool, but doing mobile suit martial arts is somewhat goofy and the only part that steps over a line somewhat to me. It always surprised me that more people didn't defect from Zeon after some of the poo poo they pulled, so having one who did over a relatively small but personal matter is nice. Kuvo posted:Mika was unique as far as Gundam protagonist go in the fact that he had no qualms about getting his hands dirty. I don't recall Setsuna ever having a problem killing folks he didn't like either honestly. Or Shinn for that matter, though I didn't see all of Destiny so I could definitely be wrong on him. Both did have people they didn't want to kill, but neither had a problem killing in itself that I recall. Gammatron 64 posted:I'd like to see that originally planned version of ZZ that has Char returning and fighting against Haman instead of Glemy, and that could lead into CCA. The original version of ZZ can't lead in to Char's Counterattack, since in the original version of ZZ (aka Zeta Part II) Char kills the heads of the Federation and Judau inspires people to move out in to space en mass. Char would have no reason to drop an asteroid, since everything that part of his plan meant to accomplish is already done. He might still want a show down with Amuro, but he'd have no reason to organize a new Neo Zeon, hijack asteroids to drop on Earth and start a war with the Federation.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:07
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tsob posted:I'm with you on this. Char's Counterattacks is an okay film, but it's always felt unnecessary to me. I thought Zeta laid out a lot more interesting and relatable conclusion to Amuro and Char's relationship, where each of them recognized that the other had just been a soldier in a war and Lalah had died because of a mistake, which there was no point holding on to and blaming each other for; two weary soldiers attempting to move on with their lives and deal with other problems. Char's Counterattack almost resetting them to a 0079 finale relationship, so that it can basically replay the 0079 with bigger stakes just doesn't do anything for me. I don't want a big conclusion to their relationship, because it never stood as something that needs one after Zeta in my opinion. IIRC, Moon-Moon wasn't all that ignorant of technology (well, beyond the massive technological acceleration after the One Year War, anyway) - they just chose to reject it, beyond the bare minimum necessary to survive. Space Amish, basically.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:43
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Twilight Axis is getting a compilation film, to be released alongside Bandit Flower
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Sep 26, 2017 18:57
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tsob posted:I'm with you on this. Char's Counterattacks is an okay film, but it's always felt unnecessary to me. I thought Zeta laid out a lot more interesting and relatable conclusion to Amuro and Char's relationship, where each of them recognized that the other had just been a soldier in a war and Lalah had died because of a mistake, which there was no point holding on to and blaming each other for; two weary soldiers attempting to move on with their lives and deal with other problems. Char's Counterattack almost resetting them to a 0079 finale relationship, so that it can basically replay the 0079 with bigger stakes just doesn't do anything for me. I don't want a big conclusion to their relationship, because it never stood as something that needs one after Zeta in my opinion. I never really thought of that because I think CCA is almost as old as I am and it's always kind of been a thing for as long as I've known Gundam. But you're right, Amuro and Char learning to forgive each other is a better conclusion than them ultimately having to kill each other in battle. It's really kind of a character regression for Char, because in First Gundam he just wanted revenge on the Zabi family, he doesn't seem all that bad in Zeta, then in CCA he's a genocidal madman. But if you take Gundam: the Origin into account, Char was a monster from the beginning, even in his childhood. Sociopath is a term that gets thrown around too much, but the Origin version of Casval is practically a textbook example of one, from his lack of empathy, superficial charm and the fact that he casually kills people (who are often innocent) with zero remorse multiple times. The Origin kind of ends the debate on whether Char was really a okay guy or not, because goddamn he's evil as hell in it. He amassed a sizable body count before he even hit puberty. At 9 years old, he coldly killed the pilots of a few guntanks, even though it was arguably in self defense. Then he almost murdered a man in a saloon with a plank with nails poking out of it because he suspected that he was following him. Then Casval stole the real Char Aznable's identity, knowing full well this would lead to the poor boy's death. The real Char and a liner full of innocent civilians were blown up by the Zabis as a result. Then Char betrayed Lino Fernandez and had him killed because he knew his real identity, even though he swore loyalty. Then Char influenced Garma to initiate the Dawn Rebellion, which directly led to the One Year War. tsob posted:The original version of ZZ can't lead in to Char's Counterattack, since in the original version of ZZ (aka Zeta Part II) Char kills the heads of the Federation and Judau inspires people to move out in to space en mass. Char would have no reason to drop an asteroid, since everything that part of his plan meant to accomplish is already done. He might still want a show down with Amuro, but he'd have no reason to organize a new Neo Zeon, hijack asteroids to drop on Earth and start a war with the Federation. Ah, I didn't really know the details of the original plan. I was more thinking like he shows up and replaces Glemy Toto in the Neo Zeon Civil War arc, except he doesn't die like Glemy does (maybe Glemy could be Char's underling). Then when Haman finally dies at the end of the series, Char takes over Neo Zeon and then the CCA storyline begins. Then maybe Judau and the crew are like "well, I guess you're not so bad, Char. You're better than Haman" and go off to Jupiter thinking that he's still like Quattro in Zeta and blissfully unaware of what he plans to do.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:18
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Retconning everything from ZZ onwards would mean we'd have to deal with more Unicorn nonsense
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Sep 26, 2017 19:44
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Gammatron 64 posted:I never really thought of that because I think CCA is almost as old as I am and it's always kind of been a thing for as long as I've known Gundam. But you're right, Amuro and Char learning to forgive each other is a better conclusion than them ultimately having to kill each other in battle. It's not even that they learn to forgive each other or move on as such, I just prefer the low key "and then their rivalry stopped defining them and their life" approach over Char's Counterattack, where they have a big duel as the Earth hangs in the balance and die shouting at each other. I wouldn't even mind if the conclusion was "and they realized neither could ever forgive each other, but they moved on to deal with other things and try and make something of their lives", because it's the idea their actions in 0079 didn't define their whole life I like really. Gammatron 64 posted:Ah, I didn't really know the details of the original plan. I was more thinking like he shows up and replaces Glemy Toto in the Neo Zeon Civil War arc, except he doesn't die like Glemy does (maybe Glemy could be Char's underling). Then when Haman finally dies at the end of the series, Char takes over Neo Zeon and then the CCA storyline begins. Then maybe Judau and the crew are like "well, I guess you're not so bad, Char. You're better than Haman" and go off to Jupiter thinking that he's still like Quattro in Zeta and blissfully unaware of what he plans to do. A really odd note about the original plan, at least as some guy here translated it a few years back when I asked (thanks whoever that was) is that in the original plan Judau moves to Mars where in ZZ as is he goes to Jupiter. Which seems like an oddly unnecessary detail to change. Anyway, I made a pastebin of the information at: http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt I thought I'd noted a thanks in the Pastebin to whoever did the translating work, but apparently not, which I'm sorry to that person about. Regardless, I prefer this version of ZZ over the one we got and Char's Counterattack, both because I prefer not having a big climax to Amuro and Char's relationship, and because I like that this version gives a definite end to one of the early UC woes about people living on Earth and I like to think any further works that followed it would try and move the setting forward, even if only a small bit. I dream of an alternate UC where their F91 starts with Judau trying to garner peace between Earth and the now fairly prosperous and populous Mars colony but he gets assassinated and Mars revolts against Earth or something. I like the idea that even though the initial problems in the Earthsphere are now mostly resolved, something one step bigger essentially mirrors them and that mankind never learns but brings the same problems to a new stage. That, and I like imagining Judau as a new Deikun who the audience is familiar with. It seems fittingly UC to me. Arcsquad12 posted:Retconning everything from ZZ onwards would mean we'd have to deal with more Unicorn nonsense Don't you mean less? Not that I'd mind, both because I dislike Char's Counterattack and actually kind of like Unicorn. Outside Riddhe the main cast could definitely use more depth, Marida leaned way too much in to misery porn and the whole thing was more of a UC highlights reel than it needed to be but I liked the plot and production values despite that, and that the story attempted to give Zeon some depth by illuminating why people gravitated to it as an ideology while also featuring sympathetic side characters and actually showing a little bit of both AE and the Federation's political or administrative leaders. Despite it's problems I'd take more of it over Char's Counterattack any day, which I feel is an okay, if un-necessary movie elevated by a strong finale. Even then, when I watch the finale I think it would be stronger if hundreds of mobile suits pushed Axis back just as it reached the terminus rather than newtype magic, and if the motives of the Neo Zeon pilots helping were clarified a little. I like to think they saw these enemies they're used to thinking of as having no beliefs they're willing to fight and die for actually willing to sacrifice themselves for something and recognized their shared humanity through that, but the movie is vague enough that I've occasionally seen people claim Amuro used the psycoframe to unconsciously brainwash them in to helping him. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 21:44
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Sometimes, there is a small part of me, hidden deep inside, that whispers to me, "hey you might like ZZ better than Zeta."
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Sep 26, 2017 21:47
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tsob posted:A really odd note about the original plan, at least as some guy here translated it a few years back when I asked (thanks whoever that was) is that in the original plan Judau moves to Mars where in ZZ as is he goes to Jupiter. Which seems like an oddly unnecessary detail to change. Anyway, I made a pastebin of the information at: http://pastebin.com/0SkxGTUt Huh, interesting. tsob posted:Don't you mean less? Not that I'd mind, both because I dislike Char's Counterattack and actually kind of like Unicorn. Same. Although I dislike Char's Counterattack mainly because Quess and Hathaway are so drat annoying. And it feels like most of the movie is devoted to them instead of Amuro, Char and Bright. I think the actual storyline of Unicorn is very meh because it's super derivative and doesn't have much that I haven't already seen done a million times before in other Gundam series. But the animation is gorgeous and has insanely high production values. And there isn't really anything in it that I find super obnoxious like Quess, so that makes it better than CCA be default. So it's unoriginal, but also inoffensive.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:05
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Mars vs Jupiter is basically "within a reasonable distance of the Earth Sphere" vs "Not really coming back"
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Sep 26, 2017 22:16
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Unicorn will always suck because it wasted Marida. That ending will never be okay for me.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:25
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tsob posted:It's not even that they learn to forgive each other or move on as such, I just prefer the low key "and then their rivalry stopped defining them and their life" approach over Char's Counterattack, where they have a big duel as the Earth hangs in the balance and die shouting at each other. I wouldn't even mind if the conclusion was "and they realized neither could ever forgive each other, but they moved on to deal with other things and try and make something of their lives", because it's the idea their actions in 0079 didn't define their whole life I like really. Char's life is and always will be defined by 0079(and the events leading up to it). That was the point of the entire "human sacrifices" conversation; by dint of his birth and his actions, for better or for worse, Char isn't a free man, he's chained to the status of being a living symbol who inspires people. He attempted to channel this in a positive direction with his membership in the AEUG and his speech at Dakar and it basically all blew up and went to poo poo. After that happened, it simply wouldn't be true to his character or be at all satisfying for him to fade into the background without any further attempt to alter the course of humanity to a different direction(which, by the events of ZZ and the events of CCA we see prior to Char springing his plan, was going profoundly for the worse). Amuro getting over his past and moving on with his life would be a little bit more plausible because he wasn't born into political royalty and wasn't raised onto an impossibly high pedestal like Char was by circumstance. Shinjobi posted:Unicorn will always suck because it wasted Marida. That ending will never be okay for me. Marida broke free of her tragic past as a slave and became a free person who made her own decisions based on her own resolve rather than simply blindly following the orders of a master. While she died, she died on her own terms, fighting for a cause which she cared deeply about and defending a group of people who she loved, and even as she died she forgave her killer and was the trigger that caused Riddhe to come to his senses and switch sides, which ultimately facilitated Full Frontal's defeat, helped deflect the colony laser, and saved the lives of everyone on the Nahel Argama and Granceries. While she didn't live happily ever after, I wouldn't really call her a wasted character. She has pretty much the most noble and important death in the entire show.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:43
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You can totally do the plot without Marida dying but Marida's death isn't a mindless waste but the logical culimination of her plot arc. She began as a literal faceless disposable soldier whose death was something that would be unimportant and unmourned and ended as a person in every sense of a the word. In addition her death was one that allowed multiple cycles of violence to be broken and for characters to get the chance to willingly choose not to follow a path they followed before. You can do it with another character (SRW actually switches Zimmerman and Marida's roles though reveals Zimmerman survives for example) but in doing so you, among other things, skip the Newtype Mojo part which is pretty important to Marida as an individual, allowing her to transcend her role as a Newtype-As-Weapon and become a True Newtype. I mean it still sucks because once again a cool lady character dies because a dumbass shoots her but it's actually a really logical and foreshadowed element of the story that brings together a bunch of disparate plot points into a cohesive whole and no other character could fill the same role.[ I have problems with Unicorn (and like 75% of them are "loving Banagher loving sucks, gently caress") but Marida and Riddhe are easily the high point of the series from a writing and thematic perspective and the largest problem Marida has is the franchise having done the same thing so often that even a well-executed version of it feels tired and annoying. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 22:48
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It's also worth noting that according to the Nahel Argama's doctor, Marida was approaching her expiry date. Making your living weapons capable of long, happy lives after retirement clearly wasn't high on Glemmy's list of priorities. Lady wasn't getting a happily ever after whatever happened.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:59
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it may not ruin marida's character arc but it really fucks with zimmerman and was a needless added tragedy to a pair of characters that didn't need more
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Sep 26, 2017 23:15
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ImpAtom posted:and the largest problem Marida has is the franchise having done the same thing so often that even a well-executed version of it feels tired and annoying. This is pretty much why it bothered me.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:09
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Kanos posted:Char isn't a free man, he's chained to the status of being a living symbol who inspires people. He's no more chained to it than Sayla is, which is to say: "not at all". Kanos posted:He attempted to channel this in a positive direction with his membership in the AEUG and his speech at Dakar and it basically all blew up and went to poo poo. Not really. His speech at Dakar was pretty much a complete success, got the Federation to distance itself from the Titans and got some support for AEUG and Karaba's push to get people off Earth. That second part came to nothing in the end, but that's not something that can be realized in Zeta itself, or even ZZ, since the Federation is at war throughout both and doesn't have the luxury of time and resources to do things like that. Kanos posted:After that happened, it simply wouldn't be true to his character or be at all satisfying for him to fade into the background without any further attempt to alter the course of humanity to a different direction. Zeta Part II as described above is as valid an attempt to alter the course of humanity as his actions in Char's Counterattack. Nor does him attempting to alter the fate of humanity nessecitate a confrontation with Amuro or even making him an antagonist really.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:28
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