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Halo14 posted:So re. McLaren using Renault engines next year. Are they all the same spec? Mercedes and Ferrari provide customers with the previous years model but is it the same with Renault? No one is provided with the previous year's engines except Sauber, and that won't be the case in 2018.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:07
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Halo14 posted:So re. McLaren using Renault engines next year. Are they all the same spec? Mercedes and Ferrari provide customers with the previous years model but is it the same with Renault? Mercedes provide customers with the current engine; usually they provide upgrades like one or two races after the main team gets it. Renault has been providing their customers (Red Bull and TR) with the current engine as well. Ferrari haven't been (they are the team providing old power units - I'm pretty sure Sauber and Haas both use old engines), which makes the dazzlingly pathetic performance of the Ferrari customer teams make so much sense. Next year all engine suppliers will be supplying current engine units. Having said that, there's a reason Mercedes have been utterly dominant over their customer teams and that's because they have total control over the development of the engine and can relate that to the strengths of their chassis design and vice-versa. Based on what we've seen, it's definitely within the bounds of possibility that McLaren will be competitive with Red Bull; having said that, it'll be interesting to see what kind of steps Renault take, and how bad Toro Rosso do next year.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:16
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wicka posted:No one is provided with the previous year's engines except Sauber, and that won't be the case in 2018. Ah so there's engine parity but you will need to change aspects to suit your chassis meaning you're wasting time and money compared to the works teams. Plus there's likely different engine mappings etc.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:16
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Reminder of that time Manor had all their computers seized by bailiffs and Ferrari refused to give them a second copy of their engine mapping, so they had to spend all of winter testing and Australia re-writing it and couldn't go out on track.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:23
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Halo14 posted:you will need to change aspects to suit your chassis meaning you're wasting time and money compared to the works teams. That's what made the Brawn even more amazing. Bolt a Mercedes engine into a space designed for a Honda and away you go.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:46
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Halo14 posted:Ah so there's engine parity but you will need to change aspects to suit your chassis meaning you're wasting time and money compared to the works teams. Plus there's likely different engine mappings etc. It's exactly this. Red Bull (in particular, lets not pretend like any of the other customer teams are in any real danger of challenging for a pole) are at a significant disadvantage to Mercedes and Ferrari in Quali because they don't have these engine mappings. Clarence posted:That's what made the Brawn even more amazing. Bolt a Mercedes engine into a space designed for a Honda and away you go. Hey, it's not like McLaren were doing anything with that Mercedes engine shaped hole.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:51
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Halo14 posted:It was at that moment I realised the blue sea was merely painted onto a wall on turn 8. Thanks Are Jense. When we were actually there, my girlfriend didn't realise it wasn't real until we were stood right next to it. In fairness, she didn't have her contacts in but I completely lost my poo poo for a good few moments.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:52
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Red Bull also have a different fuel/lubricant supplier and I'm not sure if Mobil is providing product and actually developing for Red Bull, or if they're putting their logo on the stuff Renault provides to them. (FYI this is why McLaren were slowest of the Mercedes powered teams in 2014, they were the only one not running Petronas' special blend) [quote="“Schlesische”" post="“476740484”"] Hey, it’s not like McLaren were doing anything with that Mercedes engine shaped hole. [/quote] That was a major changeover in rules plus McLaren didn't have the double-diffuser until later in the season. After major updates they were much more competitive, but the Brawn and Button had built up a major lead early in the year. And the following year McLaren were competitive immediately too.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:41
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harperdc posted:Red Bull also have a different fuel/lubricant supplier and I'm not sure if Mobil is providing product and actually developing for Red Bull, or if they're putting their logo on the stuff Renault provides to them. (FYI this is why McLaren were slowest of the Mercedes powered teams in 2014, they were the only one not running Petronas' special blend) Any sensible team would've just slapped Mobil branding on a Petronas bottle, but this wasn't good enough synergy for Ron.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:14
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http://www.redbullracing.com/article/driving-future-innovation
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Sep 25, 2017 10:19
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track day bro! posted:Any sensible team would've just slapped Mobil branding on a Petronas bottle, but this wasn't good enough synergy for Ron. Why would ExxonMobil have any interest in that arrangement?
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Sep 25, 2017 10:26
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wicka posted:Why would ExxonMobil have any interest in that arrangement? McLaren are poo poo mate.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:28
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[quote="“track day bro!”" post="“476741329”"] McLaren are poo poo mate. [/quote] Why do you even post here?
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Sep 25, 2017 10:32
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wicka posted:Why do you even post here? I like to talk about F1 with my goon pals!
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Sep 25, 2017 10:36
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Aston Martin Red Bull Racing is too many characters and too many words even for an official name that no one will use.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:37
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So, wait, is Aston really going to try to build an engine just for 18-19 or will the team be Aston Martin Red Bull Racing, Powered by TAG Heuer, Which Is Actually Renault? Edit: it's the latter of course, life is dumb Pirate Radar fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 10:41
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Yeah it's Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Brought To You By The Engine Formerly Known As Renault.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:53
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Aston Martin Red Bull Racing powered by TAG presented by Renault
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Sep 25, 2017 10:57
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Longer-term, Aston Martin have a partnership with AMG that means any of their non-V12 road cars get the AMG V8 treatment. Given that Aston's expertise is limited to a glorious V12 lumped into a car designed with tracing paper and a photo of their last model, it would make more sense* that RBR end up with an AM-badged Merc engine, wouldn't it? Especially given that Renault are now telling RBR to go gently caress themselves and Honda will continue to be a dumpster fire for the foreseeable future. * - lol this is F1 none of it makes a lick of sense. DoctorGonzo posted:Aston Martin Red Bull Racing powered by TAG presented by Renault Somewhere out there, Ron Dennis is cumming himself to death over all that brand synergy.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:59
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Red Martin racing.
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Sep 25, 2017 11:45
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Pirate Radar posted:So, wait, is Aston really going to try to build an engine just for 18-19 or will the team be Aston Martin Red Bull Racing, Powered by TAG Heuer, Which Is Actually Renault? Someone on Twitter said there's a realistic scenario in which Red Bull, Aston, and McLaren form a joint venture with Cosworth to develop an independent engine for 2021.
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Sep 25, 2017 11:49
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~BrAnD eNgInEeRiNg~ looking forward to watching AMRBR-TH(R) cars tear it up!
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Sep 25, 2017 11:50
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wicka posted:Someone on Twitter said there's a realistic scenario in which Red Bull, Aston, and McLaren form a joint venture with Cosworth to develop an independent engine for 2021. Mercedes own 5% of Aston Martin, and given they're providing them with V8s and other assorted goodies (from memory a bunch of the interior, including the infotainment, electric stuff like cruise control and most of the stuff behind the steering wheel in the DB11 was more or less straight up given to AM by Merc) I doubt they plan on leaving it at 5%. What I'm trying to say is I think (and keep in mind I was wrong about McHonda and Porsche pulling out of LMP1) Mercedes are going to stick a Merc engine in the Red Bull and brand it an Aston Martin. But Honda will probably get the first chance post Renault in 2019.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:06
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I must be crazy but didnt Renault told RBR to gently caress off? They need a engine before a title sponsor IMO.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:12
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DoctorGonzo posted:I must be crazy but didnt Renault told RBR to gently caress off? Yeah that's pretty much what's happend but then RBR poo poo talked renault for most of this era of engines so its not surprising. I mean you can argue RBR had a point but then this whole era everyone has been merc's bitch.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:46
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It was bizarre that Red Bull so quickly turned on Renault when their engine mappings alone are responsible for at least two of those championships.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:52
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The question I have with the potential for an AM-badged Merc engine is, would Merc be okay with RBR having one of their engines (minus the sweet constructor data obviously), or would RBR be okay with having a downgraded engine?
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Sep 25, 2017 12:52
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Renault has reliability problems but the rbr chassis its not very good i think?
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Sep 25, 2017 12:53
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DoctorGonzo posted:Renault has reliability problems but the rbr chassis its not very good i think? Nah the chassis is good probably close to what merc and ferrari have mclaren may have them beat though so be intresting to see if Mclaren can usurp them for 3rd next year with the renault engine.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:00
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Doesnt RBR have engines until 2019? The end of their contract? Then Honda comes in.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:02
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/massa-williams-or-nothing-next-year-957482/ Oh gently caress off you broken-brained anachronism.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:06
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Yeah Massa time is over. Put everyone in there except that Sauber guy.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:07
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Wirth1000 posted:Doesnt RBR have engines until 2019? The end of their contract? Then Honda comes in. Yeah, they have this year, the next one and then they're gonna have to move to either Honda or find someone else to partner with. The Croc posted:Nah the chassis is good probably close to what merc and ferrari have mclaren may have them beat though so be intresting to see if Mclaren can usurp them for 3rd next year with the renault engine. The Chassis is at least on par with, if not better than, the Ferrari in high downforce applications. The lack of engine mappings alone is probably what cost them pole in Singapore. Pirate Radar posted:The question I have with the potential for an AM-badged Merc engine is, would Merc be okay with RBR having one of their engines (minus the sweet constructor data obviously), or would RBR be okay with having a downgraded engine? That's the million-dollar question. To be able to leverage the full qualities of the Merc engines would probably force a total design overhaul from Red Bull and it's not entirely clear they would still be the kings of chassis design afterwards. On the flipside, Adrian Newey hasn't come up with a novel way to skirt the rules in a way that makes me audibly gasp in a few years so they're probably overdue for one.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:37
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In what reality do Merc ever give Red Bull an engine?
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Sep 25, 2017 13:46
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Schlesische posted:Mercedes provide customers with the current engine; usually they provide upgrades like one or two races after the main team gets it. Renault has been providing their customers (Red Bull and TR) with the current engine as well. Haas use the new engines,
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Sep 25, 2017 13:50
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Theophany posted:Jense's attempted murder of a noted refuse collector in Monaco was a season highlight. That literally feels like it was eons ago.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:52
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I wonder if he really did piss in Nando's seat 
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Sep 25, 2017 13:57
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Tsaedje posted:In what reality do Merc ever give Red Bull an engine? One where they don't get engine parity or access to the higher engine modes.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:59
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Dudley posted:Haas use the new engines, Counter point: Haas Are rear end
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Sep 25, 2017 14:00
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1500quidporsche posted:One where they don't get engine parity or access to the higher engine modes. Alternatively, they might be okay letting them have the engines provided Mobil do all the fuel development on their own.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:02
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