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team overhead smash posted:That's a claim that isn't even supported by your own link. If you read it you'll see he counselled against occupation not war. 'Sharon acknowledged that Saddam Hussein was an “acute threat” to the Middle East and that he believed Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction'. Although it also claims that Sharon said he would not push one way or another for or against the war, we know that ended up being a lie because he did push for it. I disagree for two reasons. 1. The nature of the US/Israel relationship is one of complete subservience by the latter to the former. This norm was damaged by Netanyahu's idiocy, but returned this year when Netanyahu wouldn't even condemn Trump's embrace of neo-Nazis. Israel is not in a position to criticize the US. 2. Think of the practical consequences. The security establishment aren't run by religious Zionists or neoconservatives. They're run by sober realists who want to withdraw from most settlements, support the Iran nuclear deal, and take similar steps to ensure Israel's long term survival and stability. What's the benefit in removing Saddam? As we saw, his removal was an utter disaster for Israel that caused it demonstrable harm. qkkl posted:I'm kind of surprised that to be "officially" Jewish your mom needs to be Jewish, considering that genetic tests have shown that the initial Ashkenazi population mostly grew from Jewish men marrying non-Jewish women. The unacceptance of converts is a new, ahistorical phenomenon that is completely contradicted by everything in the religion, and I say that as an atheist who despises religion. Much like Wahhabism and fundamentalist Christianity, Haredism is opposed by the nearly everyone else (in this case, even religious Zionists don't support making it impossible to convert to Judaism), yet somehow has a disproportionate stranglehold on power. I generally don't think Netanyahu is comparable to Trump, but they both cynically exploit religious fundamentalists that they otherwise share nothing else in common with. If you actually read the Tanakh, intermarriage is quite common even in Jewish scripture. At the time of the Babylonian exile, Ezra said it was getting out of hand and laid down ground rules, but that was nothing like this.
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Sep 24, 2017 00:49
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What if I had one Jewish grandparent, but my other three grandparents were Palestinian refugees, would I be allowed to immigrate to Israel as a Jew?
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Sep 24, 2017 00:54
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qkkl posted:What if I had one Jewish grandparent, but my other three grandparents were Palestinian refugees, would I be allowed to immigrate to Israel as a Jew? Can you just go away?
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Sep 24, 2017 00:58
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Kim Jong Il posted:Netanyahu wouldn't even condemn Trump's embrace of neo-Nazis. Between his son's comments and Likud having invited a neo-Nazi leader to Israel last year I'm not sure you've correctly read the reason Netanyahu isn't all about condemning the embrace of neo-Nazis.
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Sep 24, 2017 01:02
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qkkl posted:What if I had one Jewish grandparent, but my other three grandparents were Palestinian refugees, would I be allowed to immigrate to Israel as a Jew? Do you own a table saw?
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Sep 24, 2017 01:10
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Disinterested posted:Can you just go away?
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Sep 24, 2017 01:29
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there's a logical hole in everything, that's how the light gets in
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Sep 24, 2017 01:30
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the old ceremony posted:in my experience goons think that if they poke enough logical holes in judaism, israel and the diaspora will all embrace rational atheism and the world's problems will magically disappear.
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Sep 24, 2017 07:38
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Xander77 posted:And to reiterate, the people who established Israel were (for the most part) socialist atheists / vague theists who (at best) only tolerated overtly religious Jews. Lol the people who founded Israel were a bunch of trash racist European colonialists who are about as socialist as a wahhabi preacher is. " oh yeah let's be socialist for one religion only while discarding basic tenets like internationalism and anti racism and solidarity for all working classes and let's let our entire state narrative, recruitment state symbology, indoctrination and ideology be religious and speak like a bunch of religious fanatics in nature and while we're at it let's be a lynchpin in the fight against socialists and anti colonialists and fight leftism in general for he next few decades hey really guys we're socialists I swear we are" They can call themselves leftist and socialist all they like but if their actions and policy and behavior is just a typical right wing reactionary race based colonialist movement well sorry that's what they were and that's that. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 08:01
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Al-Saqr posted:Jews jews jews jews jews jews ... Oh, we're talking about the brave lads in Fatah / Revolutionary Cells / The Japanese Red Army. Yeah, Israel will forever bear a mark of bitter shame - international terrorism could have triggered a world-wide revolution by now, if it wasn't for its role as a linchpin in the fight. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 08:30
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Xander77 posted:Ok, you'll have to explain this one to me. Were there a lot of leftist / socialist / anti-colonialist governments that Israel undermined by its continued insistence to exit? LOL ok sweetie pie seeing as how you're so intellectually dishonest that I point out the clear hypocrisy of racist right wing reactionary zealots who founded israel and point out that calling themselves socialists is a load of poo poo you automatically move to the tired tropes of painting me as an anti-semite, I'm not even going to bother giving you any kind of halfway answer if you're already going to approach what I say with this type of garbage, like try for once in your life to not to be a complete idiot child when you respond to people smarter and better read than you. Either quote me honestly in full or dont expect a response.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:11
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You're likely not even talking about the same people or the same era of zionism.
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Sep 24, 2017 09:17
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 What do you think Bokros meant by this? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 24, 2017 10:08
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Hungary's population is ageing and old people don't have kids?
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Sep 24, 2017 10:11
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Snatch Duster posted:
Curious as to where you found this screenshot.
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Sep 24, 2017 10:15
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Snatch Duster posted:
Wait I don't get what's wrong with what Bokros is saying isn't it perfectly fine that immigration helps with keeping the economy running in an aging economy? How is that genocidal?
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Sep 24, 2017 10:16
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huh, hungary hasn't had positive population growth in nearly forty years. not what i was expecting
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Sep 24, 2017 10:17
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Svartvit posted:Curious as to where you found this screenshot. Well I hear the daily Stormer is back up on .is now, so...
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Sep 24, 2017 10:23
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Xander77 posted:Ok, you'll have to explain this one to me. Were there a lot of leftist / socialist / anti-colonialist governments that Israel undermined by its continued insistence to exit? Mossadegh and company would be the obvious example.
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Sep 24, 2017 10:26
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Al-Saqr posted:Wait I don't get what's wrong with what Bokros is saying isn't it perfectly fine that immigration helps with keeping the economy running in an aging economy? How is that genocidal? i'm guessing they're borrowing Nazi-esque racial purity ideas and think that letting in other ethnicities will wipe out their own.
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Sep 24, 2017 11:46
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Al-Saqr posted:Wait I don't get what's wrong with what Bokros is saying isn't it perfectly fine that immigration helps with keeping the economy running in an aging economy? How is that genocidal? If Bokros had said "replacing jobs vacated by an aging Hungarian population" then it would sound better. One way to replace a population is to genocide it, and by wording it the way he did Bokros opened himself up to be interpreted how anti-semites see fit.
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Sep 24, 2017 12:44
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Not I am not the kind to pick the nits (I totally am) but the only places where I find Bokros' quote presented with such a New World Order slant are right wing websites, more serious sources kind of seem to suggest that this framing is the handywork of those paraphrasing Bokros' statement: https://budapestbeacon.com/lajos-bokros-publicly-denounces-xenophobic-politics-of-orban-government/quote:He criticized the three slogans appearing on the government billboards. With regard to the slogan “If you come to Hungary, you cannot take Hungarian work”, Bokros pointed out that it was the government itself that is depriving Hungarians of jobs, “as evidenced by the fact that half a million people have left Hungary”. He called attention to the fact that in most places migrants create workplaces “but for this you need good governance”. He mentioned the example of a Lebanese Arab friend of his who opened a restaurant in Nádor street that employs five people and pays taxes in Hungary. Yes, economic migrants paying the pensions of the aging Hungarian population somewhat sounds different than "replacing the population".
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Sep 24, 2017 13:18
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Snatch Duster posted:
He means immigrants end up supporting the economy as the population of Hungary ages and declines, just like they do in most developed countries. See Japan as to why this is necessary. Why, what did you think he meant???
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Sep 24, 2017 15:07
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I'm finding it difficult to see an innocent reason for posting in the Israel thread about a non-Israeli Jewish person on a non-Israeli issue.
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Sep 24, 2017 15:14
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Futuresight posted:I'm finding it difficult to see an innocent reason for posting in the Israel thread about a non-Israeli Jewish person on a non-Israeli issue. Read the dude's rap sheet. He's an overt white supremacist who should have been perma'd ages ago.
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Sep 24, 2017 15:40
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Well I hear the daily Stormer is back up on .is now, so... Woulda done it faster, but the whole "complete collapse of the coalition" got in the way
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Sep 24, 2017 16:48
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Jesus gently caress can we ban the Nazis in this thread? In addition to being Nazi garbage, it has nothing to do with Israel. (Referring to SD and his pals if anyone's confused by my quote below.) Futuresight posted:Between his son's comments and Likud having invited a neo-Nazi leader to Israel last year I'm not sure you've correctly read the reason Netanyahu isn't all about condemning the embrace of neo-Nazis. No doubt they've been flirty with the European far right, but that has nothing to do with Yair being an idiot. For some the lesson of the Holocaust wasn't to fight xenophobia and hatred. It was self-preservation at all costs.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:09
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That's a fair point.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:44
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ah but you see, the jews
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Sep 24, 2017 21:48
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Darth Walrus posted:Read the dude's rap sheet. He's an overt white supremacist who should have been perma'd ages ago. I feel that I must protest here. I am not a White Supremacist, I will not stand for this slander. My comments regarding separatism in the United States were stated in the context of a possible solution for the Racial problems in American society through the national liberation of the peoples of the current United States, delivered through the cooperation of the different ethnic communities of the United States, and by democratic consensus. The process of national liberation would have involved the transfer of wealth and assets from the European American community to the other communities, to ensure that each new nation possessed a sound economic foundation for future development. If I am a racist White Supremacist, then so too was the Communist Party of the USA and Joseph Stalin in the 1930s, who campaigned and advocated for African American self determination in the 'Black Belt' of the United States. It is true that I have been probated three times for discussing this, and I realise that I lack the intellect and literary nuance to discuss this without causing offence. As such, I have resolved not to discuss it, without the explicit permission of the Moderation Team. I have also admitted that there are many problems with my proposal, and that it probably should not be implemented. However, I do feel that responding to slander is an exception to this. I would like to challenge ''Darth Walrus'' to locate any of my prose that demonstrated a contempt for non-Whites as a group in a cultural or biological sense, or advocated for separatism in the explicit service of White Supremacy and not out of a desire to afford every race in the United States the opportunity to practice their own full social, economic and political development. As for my queries concerning the 'Right to Return', I am simply concerned about my ability to make a living in Britain post Brexit. It may not be relevant to the inter-communal conflict in Israel, but I was not able to locate a more relevant thread. As such, I posted the question here. If a more relevant thread exists, then I apologise for posting in this one. Lord_Adonis fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 22:03
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He's not a white supremacist, it's just his solution to every problem is splitting countries into ethnic enclaves. A sort of universal post-yugoslavia.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:06
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Kim Jong Il posted:Jesus gently caress can we ban the Nazis in this thread? In addition to being Nazi garbage, it has nothing to do with Israel. I am not a Nazi.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:10
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Lord_Adonis posted:I feel that I must protest here. I am not a White Supremacist, I will not stand for this slander. My comments regarding separatism in the United States were stated in the context of a possible solution for the Racial problems in American society through the national liberation of the peoples of the current United States, delivered through the cooperation of the different ethnic communities of the United States, and by democratic consensus. The process of national liberation would have involved the transfer of wealth and assets from the European American community to the other communities, to ensure that each new nation possessed a sound economic foundation for future development. If I am a racist White Supremacist, then so too was the Communist Party of the USA and Joseph Stalin in the 1930s, who campaigned and advocated for African American self determination in the 'Black Belt' of the United States. It is true that I have been probated three times for discussing this, and I realise that I lack the intellect and literary nuance to discuss this without causing offence. As such, I have resolved not to discuss it, without the explicit permission of the Moderation Team. However, I do feel that responding to slander is an exception to this. I would like to challenge ''Darth Walrus'' to locate any of my prose that demonstrated a contempt for non-Whites as a group in a cultural or biological sense, or advocated for separatism in the explicit service of White Supremacy and not out of a desire to afford every race in the United States the opportunity to practice their own full social, economic and political development. he was talking about snatch duster, please learn to follow the flow of the conversation you weirdo also as a person of mixed race i have to say you entertain some pretty racist ideas for someone who isn't racist and your whole grand scheme would leave 7% of the us population in no man's land because you can't grasp that race is a social construction GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 22:14
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:he was talking about snatch duster, please learn to follow the flow of the conversation you weirdo In that case, I apologise for raising a fuss and extend a personal apology to Darth Walrus for admonishing him/her, as well as to Kim Jong Il for responding to him/her so flippantly. I should have read further back into the past of the thread. I accept that Race is a social construct. I believe that I said that it would be up to the people and governments of the new nations to determine the eligibility of citizenship, and that sufficiently moderate administrations on all sides could be trusted to administer this process responsibly. However, I have since learned that this would not afford sufficient protection for mixed-Race people- as such it should not be implemented. I have no problem with mixed-Race people, nor people who choose spouses/partners of another race. Lord_Adonis fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 22:35
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Kim Jong Il posted:I disagree for two reasons. What exactly are you trying to disagree with and what makes you think there is room for debate on this? You claimed Israel didn't support the war in Iraq. In fact the sources have shown Israel did support the war in Iraq and you were misreading the your own sources which, even though they tried to paint Israel in the best light possible, didn't actually back up your claim. Your hypothetical claims about how you think this should work don't really matter when we already know how it works and we know Israel supported the war. 1) "The nature of the US/Israel relationship is one of complete subservience by the latter to the former. Please pay no attention to the last 8 years!" Also if anyone does buy this argument that Israel apparently has no national interest and just does whatever the USA wants, you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot. The USA wanted to invade Iraq. As a subservient nation that just exists to help the USA out, surely it therefore helped the USA to invade Iraq by your logic? 2) If you want to look at the rationale behind it, why don't you look at the sources which have already been provided and explain the rationale behind the support which we know Israel gave for a war against Iraq? "Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," a spokesman for Mr Sharon said. "It will only give him [Saddam] more of an opportunity to accelerate his programme of weapons of mass destruction." Also the argument is ridiculous and can instantly be dismissed because not only does it assumes Israel has prophetic military infallibility but it's also you shifting the goalposts. You stated Israel and Sharon in particular didn't support war with Iraq.When you are then shown proof showing that Israel and Sharon in particular actually DID support war with Iraq, completely contrary to your claims, you shift to saying the military wouldn't support it which is neither here nor there seeing as that isn't their call to make.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:35
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The idea that Israel is subservient to the United States is frankly so absurd on its face it doesn't really require an adult response.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:48
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Disinterested posted:The idea that Israel is subservient to the United States is frankly so absurd on its face it doesn't really require an adult response. This means that logically speaking, they kinda should be subservient, but obviously they aren't, so I dunno.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:26
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I, don't know. I mean, if the US wasn't basically protecting it and repping for it all the drat time and making sure they never suffer the consequences of their actions, they'd be in a way tougher situation. Somehow it's more the other way around.
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Sep 25, 2017 18:04
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Disinterested posted:The idea that Israel is subservient to the United States is frankly so absurd on its face it doesn't really require an adult response. Orange Devil posted:Somehow it's more the other way around.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:05
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Xander77 posted:Sadly, the Israeli lobby controls both major parties in US politics, and the United States is subservient to the Zionist government. Yeah, those are the only two beliefs you can hold.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:42
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