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Condiv posted:what is the ideology of people who think bernie having a debate with graham and cassidy wrt their poo poo bill is a bad idea? cause i don't like that ideology I think the logic is that if Bernie appears and Single Payer keeps getting pushed it will somehow fire up the GOP to try and repeal the ACA harder, which is weird because that's already happening with or without a single payer discussion.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:10
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Trabisnikof posted:Disagree completely. Space and place plays a huge role in our culture and society and shouldn't ignore that role in politics. We need means to include those varying voices in our representative democracy. It's very common in parliamentary elections for the percentage of seats that a group has to be significantly different than the amount of votes that they received as a whole if those votes are spread around too much. It certainly can be an issue of marginalizing smaller groups or rural groups if they can't get enough of a threshold, but if you have a resulting political balance that's significantly different from what the voter turnout was then you have serious problems. And climate change adaptation is a nationwide issue and appropriations can be handled at a national level and allocated out on a regional level as needed. That isn't something that's uniquely a power of regional representation but rather is a sign of a healthy and functioning government. If anything, the over-focusing of resources on certain local areas is actually detrimental to the end result.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:11
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Potato Salad posted:I feel like people took the image of American Moderates/Center Independents that are really just closet Republicans, convinced themselves those are actually representative of the center left, and built a thread around it. There are a lot of these people in the Democratic party, though, and what you called "tone policing" was people identifying these people and these tendencies and habits. We can't just passively roll with the liberals in the Democratic party and expect to not get shut down when it becomes convenient for them to do so -- especially since they're already trying to shut us down when it's politically inconvenient for them to do so! Further, a lot of these center left politicians have shown that they're more comfortable dealing with the Ossoffs and Manchins of the world than they are with leftists.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:15
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bernie's town hall on the graham-cassidy shitfest should be tonight at 9pm if anyone in this thread is interested. i'll have to catch the highlights tomorrow since that'll be p late at night for me, but I hope he and amy klochubar do well and really shame those shitbags
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Sep 25, 2017 21:17
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Condiv posted:bernie's town hall on the graham-cassidy shitfest should be tonight at 9pm if anyone in this thread is interested. 
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Sep 25, 2017 21:18
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i started the previous incarnation of the dems are a waste thread cause i was pissed at tom perez going back on his 50-state strategy and ignoring special elections to the benefit of no-one. i guess that makes me a the_donald poster or something
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Sep 25, 2017 21:19
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Condiv posted:i started the previous incarnation of the dems are a waste thread cause i was pissed at tom perez going back on his 50-state strategy and ignoring special elections to the benefit of no-one. i guess that makes me a the_donald poster or something It expressly doesn't, stop the willful misinterpretation.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:19
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Condiv posted:i started the previous incarnation of the dems are a waste thread cause i was pissed at tom perez going back on his 50-state strategy and ignoring special elections to the benefit of no-one. i guess that makes me a the_donald poster or something It means you encourage /r/the_donald-like rhetoric. I can assure you this slander is in no way meant to suggest you are a reactionary chud.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:22
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The Kingfish posted:It means you encourage /r/the_donald-like rhetoric. I can assure you this slander is in no way meant to suggest you are a reactionary chud. Correct!
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Sep 25, 2017 21:27
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Nevvy Z posted:It's Samantha Bee. Weirdly vindictive against Bernie Sanders and the left? Checks out.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:27
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Potato Salad posted:Correct! what's it supposed to suggest then? other than to be extremely insulting by comparing me to fascists?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:29
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The Kingfish posted:It means you encourage /r/the_donald-like rhetoric. I can assure you this slander is in no way meant to suggest you are a reactionary chud. Which ethnic groups is he advocating for genocide against? Which racial slurs are his favorite to spam in all caps? Which posts are he censoring and scrubbing from this site? Who has he tracked down and made death threats against?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:31
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Lemming posted:Which ethnic groups is he advocating for genocide against? Which racial slurs are his favorite to spam in all caps? Which posts are he censoring and scrubbing from this site? Who has he tracked down and made death threats against? Misfire dude, I agree with Condiv. e:v take a breath and read the thread. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 21:35
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The Kingfish posted:Misfire dude, I agree with Condiv. You made a very specific accusation about using specific types of rhetoric. This is the type of rhetoric you're accusing him of using. When did he use it?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:36
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Condiv posted:what's it supposed to suggest then? other than to be extremely insulting by comparing me to fascists? It makes you a vile Internet Leftist Attack-dog.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:39
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Lemming posted:You made a very specific accusation about using specific types of rhetoric. This is the type of rhetoric you're accusing him of using. When did he use it? Lemming I think you may need to go back and consider the original Kingfish post that started this was facetious.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:39
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Condiv posted:what's it supposed to suggest then? other than to be extremely insulting by comparing me to fascists? That fascists on t_d got started out with the same circlejerking that Waste had. That building a thread largely around (not completely around, as discussed earlier) "Look how bad the other guy is" is the same thinking of the Clinton campaign.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:40
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Lemming posted:You made a very specific accusation about using specific types of rhetoric. This is the type of rhetoric you're accusing him of using. When did he use it? I never knew sea lions were cannibals.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:41
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Office Pig posted:Lemming I think you may need to go back and consider the original Kingfish post that started this was facetious. I don't really care if I mix up fake posts with serious posts like this one Potato Salad posted:That fascists on t_d got started out with the same circlejerking that Waste had. That building a thread largely around (not completely around, as discussed earlier) "Look how bad the other guy is" is the same thinking of the Clinton campaign. Considering the content is the same and fakeposting is some tedious bullshit blame them for making the same posts others are making unironically
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Sep 25, 2017 21:43
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Potato Salad posted:That fascists on t_d got started out with the same circlejerking that Waste had. That building a thread largely around (not completely around, as discussed earlier) "Look how bad the other guy is" is the same thinking of the Clinton campaign. "Look at how terrible the Mexicans, Muslims... are" is totally the same as "Look at how terrible this specific group of politicians is"
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Sep 25, 2017 21:44
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Trabisnikof posted:But you're describing progressivism not conservatism. Conservatism is fundamentally arguing that we shouldn't change the status quo at all, or if we do change it, it is only to undo the changes previous progressives have made.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:44
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Ok, I need some help here with Futuresight's last post and why it's so terrible, because I read it as saying Dems deserve criticism and lack of support from minorities if they don't follow up on their words with actions, and if their only solution is to fill positions and nothing else, then that's not good enough. You don't see why slipping "maybe they'll push for more black women CEOs, hahaha, liberals are so bad" into a discussion about racial issues might possibly look bad, especially if you don't follow lefty Twitter enough to know that it's an injoke derived from social justice discussions. Sure, KM could have given Futuresight the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to conclusions...but why is it always the PoC who has to be the one to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that a dodgy-sounding statement isn't racist? Why couldn't people just apologize and explain the reference, rather than getting mad, accusing KM of posting in bad faith, and throwing a childish tantrum? It was a simple misunderstanding, based primarily on Futuresight making a reference that KM wasn't familiar with and which could easily be misconstrued as dismissive of racial equality. The discussion could easily have continued peacefully, except that as soon as KM made the slightest suggestion that his remark could have been racially insensitive, white fragility kicks in and suddenly everyone's throwing a fit at the mean PoC who dared to be uncomfortable with something a white person said.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:45
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steinrokkan posted:"Look at how terrible the Mexicans, Muslims... are" is totally the same as "Look at how terrible this specific group of politicians is" The rhetorical structure and purpose in your two examples are literally the same You're literally proving my point stop pretending you don't know what a circle jerk is, holy loving nutsack
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Sep 25, 2017 21:46
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"The Rhetoric!" I scream as the flames take me -- the very fires of leftism I myself had stoked!
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Sep 25, 2017 21:47
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I never knew sea lions were cannibals. Are you going to back up your accusation of him being a sea lion, or are you just gonna leave that there?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:48
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Potato Salad posted:The rhetorical structure and purpose in your two examples are literally the same the purpose of the_donald is to kill or deport mexicans and muslims trail of tears style. was the purpose of the bad dems thread mass genocide of democrats?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:48
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I'm starting to think that pearl clutching about dialogue and rhetoric is a big FAT WASTE.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:49
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Potato Salad posted:The rhetorical structure and purpose in your two examples are literally the same You are literally doing the "You are racist against cops" conservative charade. "Circlejerks" are fine, the content matters.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:49
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Condiv posted:the purpose of the_donald is to kill or deport mexicans and muslims trail of tears style. was the bad dems thread suggesting mass genocide of democrats? Maybe consider rereading my post, and you'll have my answer Spark Notes version: No.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:50
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steinrokkan posted:"Circlejerks" are fine, the content matters. Yes: the content matters No: "Circlejerks" are fine
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Sep 25, 2017 21:51
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Like, is your problem with the_donald that their posting does not follow the Robert's Rules of Order rather than their politics?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:51
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All y'all post whiners should be counting your manhoods cheap vs these high rollers http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/352287-protests-delay-gop-obamacare-repeal-hearing that's how you protest folks but please argue more on the internet, you're good, the wheelchair folks got this
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Sep 25, 2017 21:51
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Potato Salad posted:Maybe consider rereading my post, and you'll have my answer you know there are other circle jerks on the internet you can draw comparisons to other than a community of fascists right? so why draw such an extremely false comparison other than to be extremely insulting?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:52
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Majorian posted:Are you going to back up your accusation of him being a sea lion, or are you just gonna leave that there? I really hope you just sea lioned my joke about sea lions to be funny and not serious. I really can't tell.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:52
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steinrokkan posted:Like, is your problem with the_donald that their posting does not follow the Robert's Rules of Order rather than their politics? Have you only ever seen hyperstructured debate or total circlejerk in your life? Why are you trying so hard to ram this false dichotomy through?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:53
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Main Paineframe posted:You don't see why slipping "maybe they'll push for more black women CEOs, hahaha, liberals are so bad" into a discussion about racial issues might possibly look bad, especially if you don't follow lefty Twitter enough to know that it's an injoke derived from social justice discussions.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:53
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Potato Salad posted:Yes: the content matters "Circlejerks" are just people who had reached a pre-established consensus about an issue having a discussion without the need to constantly re-establish the basic assumptions for the benefit of strangers. It is the natural state of any group of people with intense preferences and ideas, and is inherently neither harmful, nor constructive - it can be either or neither depending on the precise intentions and determination of the participants.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:All y'all post whiners should be counting your manhoods cheap vs these high rollers "If you want a hearing you better shut up" God drat those people are doing hero's work.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:54
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Condiv posted:you know there are other circle jerks on the internet you can draw comparisons to other than a community of fascists right? so why draw such an extremely false comparison other than to be extremely insulting? There are, I was intentionally reaching for Galilean hyperbole. As in, "this is an endgame of closed, positive feedback"
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Sep 25, 2017 21:55
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steinrokkan posted:"Circlejerks" are just people who had reached a pre-established consensus about an issue having a discussion without the need to constantly re-establish the basic assumptions for the benefit of strangers. It is the natural state of any group of people with intense preferences and ideas, and is inherently neither harmful, nor constructive - it can be either or neither depending on the precise intentions and determination of the participants. This is a good post.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:56
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