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Snazzy Frocks posted:it'd be very awkward for there to be such a character specific counter built in like that metal as hell though
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Sep 25, 2017 22:39
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Counters in this game are supposed to be based on general "X ability will cause trouble for characters with Y characteristics" kinds of principles. A character shouldn't have an ability that only affects one other character.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:40
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Supercar Gautier posted:Counters in this game are supposed to be based on general "X ability will cause trouble for characters with Y characteristics" kinds of principles. A character shouldn't have an ability that only affects one other character. Just introduce more characters that can interact with death markers then. Mei can claim fallen souls to fuel her unholy powers, etc
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Sep 25, 2017 22:41
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introduce a necromancer type hero that can resurrect the dead enemy heroes and get an AI bot for a short time.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:43
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Snazzy Frocks posted:introduce a necromancer type hero that can resurrect the dead enemy heroes and get an AI bot for a short time. Owns bones
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Sep 25, 2017 23:20
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You could make res have more of a downside instead of a free full heal. For instance, introduce either a debuff to Mercy or the rez target. Not having them come back with full health would help, and so would having them come back with an anti-heal or discord effect that faded over time. Or, make Mercy take some damage, put guardian angel on a cooldown, or get a debuff herself so that by diving into the middle of a massive fight you risk losing the Mercy. Maybe Mercy can't use her beam staff for a few seconds after she uses rez. It'd still be an incredibly powerful ability, but you'd have to think about when to use it. I think you could do a lot more interesting things to balance it than just hammering the cooldown on it.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:27
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berenzen posted:Rez being an ability means that a team with a mercy effectively has a .83 player advantage on every fight where rez is up. Or a 2.5 player advantage when ultimate is up. At a 30s cooldown, that means she has it for every major teamfight if not for multiple times during a teamfight, in which rez gets better. Throw in the fact that valk resets that cooldown and shortens it to get 3 rezzes quickly and is up every other fight. It means that a team with a mercy goes into a fight with an effective 6.83 people, or 8.5 if valk is up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDuNZyYAIQ
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Sep 25, 2017 23:33
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Have people rezzed with temporary HP that decays over 30s or so. If they don't get a health pack or healing in that time, they'll die again when the HP runs down. So either they have to worry about getting to healing, or Mercy has heal them instead of zipping off immediately.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:15
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Remove rez from game. Give mercy a barrier.  Edit: give everyone a barrier Edit edit: every ten seconds a new neutral barrier spawns through the map World Famous W fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 00:17
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Think not being at full health when revived is the best bet. It already feels that way with DVA since she respawns without her suit, so half the time I get killed before the mech can spawn.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:35
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The person revived is at full health, rezzing removes 100 hp from Mercy except during valkyrie.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:26
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I am going to get a POTG as Ana if it's the last loving thing I do I think the Mercy res should start on cd and maybe go to like 40 seconds
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Sep 26, 2017 01:40
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turtlecrunch posted:The person revived is at full health, rezzing removes 100 hp from Mercy except during valkyrie. 90% of revives go wrong and the resurrected player is turned into Reaper until they die.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:54
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Wow Total Mayhem with the Mercy change...that was a match that wouldn't end until the other team briefly got knockaway from the cart.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:59
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that's just total mayhem in general tbh
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Sep 26, 2017 02:01
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Snazzy Frocks posted:introduce a necromancer type hero that can resurrect the dead enemy heroes and get an AI bot for a short time. Mark assists to bastion and dva when roadhog scores a kill
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Sep 26, 2017 03:23
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Just double rez cooldown and slower her ult build up, problem fixed
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Sep 26, 2017 12:02
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What about a cast time on rez like sombra's hack? Makes reading in the middle of a team fight more difficult or risky but doesn't punish you for resting when you've already won a fight or when regrouping.
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Sep 26, 2017 13:16
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totalnewbie posted:What about a cast time on rez like sombra's hack? Makes reading in the middle of a team fight more difficult or risky but doesn't punish you for resting when you've already won a fight or when regrouping. I like this, it means Mercy can't dive res but helps sustain defense/offense, does have weird trolling implications depending on how it works though. A further potential problem is teams building around it, so triple tank comes back (Would think Winston, Reinhardt, Zarya for tanks, a flex DPS and Ana for Nano.), basically, just slow the game down considerably and grind your way through a defense. Or poo poo, have Mercy and the rez target share a hit pool until Rez comes off cooldown, you kill one you kill both.
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Sep 26, 2017 13:59
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FaustianQ posted:does have weird trolling implications depending on how it works though. FaustianQ posted:Or poo poo, have Mercy and the rez target share a hit pool until Rez comes off cooldown, you kill one you kill both. Sorry, found that really funny.
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Sep 26, 2017 14:02
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dogstile posted:Sorry, found that really funny. I was trying to spitball more than a complaint, my other idea was even worse (double the respawn time of rezzed targets)
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Sep 26, 2017 14:08
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Giving it a cast time is the only reasonable suggestion so far, I think. I'm really not that sure that the fact that she rezzes more people per match remains a problem (again, I think it's worth looking into how quickly those rezzed characters die again because the Mercy mis-timed the rez); and it's pretty common for newly reworked heroes to get bumps to their pickrates for a while after release. Doomfist was everywhere for a while; now I run into him very rarely.
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Sep 26, 2017 14:26
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Montalvo posted:Giving it a cast time is the only reasonable suggestion so far, I think. I'm really not that sure that the fact that she rezzes more people per match remains a problem (again, I think it's worth looking into how quickly those rezzed characters die again because the Mercy mis-timed the rez); and it's pretty common for newly reworked heroes to get bumps to their pickrates for a while after release. Doomfist was everywhere for a while; now I run into him very rarely. e: I still really like the idea of Mercy losing some health or getting a (lesser) discord effect placed on her/her target/both when she rezzes. The Battlefield series also had difficulty with medics chain-rezzing people and helped solved it by having people come back with 20% health that could be increased as the medic charged up their defib. Maybe make rez a channeled ability with the same very limited range rez has now, but longer channels increase the percentage people come back? It wouldn't be a long channel, so you could fire off a rez instantly but your target would come back pretty weak, but if you waited a second (max) you got a full-health rez off. This would let people intercept Mercies going for a rez and encourage supporting your Mercy to get a better rez off, at least, while still giving a use for the really quick rez to swing a close teamfight. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 14:41
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Yeah, nobody really talked about it but his hitbox went from being generous to being outright punishing to use. It's better now, with pharmercy everywhere you won't see him much.
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Sep 26, 2017 14:50
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My other half linked me this the other day. I both love and hate it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcgKd7gpJ8
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Sep 26, 2017 15:30
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How many of you suggesting changes to Mercy actually play a lot of Mercy? Not once have I felt this kit was overpowered, especially while on offense. Heck, normally if I don't pick that kit often nobody else does as they all jump on the same 5 kits. The ult is fine, but flying with bright lines pointing to/from you makes you a great target for an entire team (especially the snipers). Rezzing on offense is always dangerous, as most players died in a poor spot. Without decent Mercy support offense would be very tough. You will never get play of the game, you're basically defenseless if ever caught alone or have bad teammates, and her bright white kits says "shoot me first" to everyone. On defense, playing Mercy is easier. You stay further out of danger and still support the team. Rezzes tend to be less dangerous. Snipers have a harder time getting at you. If I rebalanced Mercy at all, I would suggest variable rez timers and ults timers based upon offense/defense. Mercy gets a shorter rez timer on offense, and a slightly longer ult. Just my random opinion as a Mercy player.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:40
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Offense worked fine without Mercy being OP (or even just with other healers period) for the majority of the game's life, what are you talking about? Also lol at "basically defenseless," her ult is unlimited flight with better air control than Pharah and perma-regen. Similarly if you're caught alone as Mercy that's a failure state, the fact that you're "defenseless" then would be a good thing... if it were true. Not getting POTG means nothing. Tell it to the Ana mains.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:47
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Enallyniv posted:My other half linked me this the other day. I both love and hate it. This is hilarious, but I don't think it showcases that Mercy is broken -- if anything, the Mercy is disadvantaging their own team by consistently reviving a high HP tank for the enemy team to farm ults on. Yeah, it's a ton of quick rezzes but they're largely ineffective. Tuxedo Catfish posted:Also lol at "basically defenseless," her ult is unlimited flight with better air control than Pharah and perma-regen. The regeneration does very little to keep you alive if you're getting focused on by the enemy team, which is relatively simple if you aren't actively using GA -- and if you are actively using it, you're impossible to hit anyway, so the regeneration ability doesn't have much of an impact. I'd argue that the perfect flight controls aren't a huge boon because a) you're not moving very quickly, and more importantly b) your movement is fairly predictable and linear, unlike Pharah's bounciness. I'm not the best Mercy player, but I play her more than any other character and unless I pop Valkyrie off when I'm in a relatively safe situation I get gunned down almost immediately. I've found that the ultimate is more effective if used in the lead up to a major team fight, as opposed to in the heat of a big battle.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:01
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highmodulus posted:How many of you suggesting changes to Mercy actually play a lot of Mercy? Based on pre-Valkyrie Mercy discussions I've seen here and in tryhard, the answer is "lol" 
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Sep 26, 2017 16:01
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I play Mercy if no-one else on my team will because playing anyone else would be throwing.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:13
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Mercy was already a pain to kill if she was good at using Guardian Angel for quick escapes and stuck with her teams. Popping Valkyrie by definition makes her a lot harder to kill. For one, she's no longer dependent on there being a Pharah to get her out of range of all of the dangerous ground-based attacks. For another, at least as Pharah I can see when she GAs to a target and her more predictable movement lets me drop a rocket on her, but with Valk up she does that a lot less. Also, Pharah's general floatiness isn't actually a benefit because most Pharahs either hold the jets constantly and so have a consistent trajectory or they flutter them, which makes them bob pretty consistently too. Mercy's air control is a lot better for dodging just because it has no momentum associated with it. She's very, very hard to kill in Valk. I'm a bad, but I've only killed an ulting Mercy with other ults or with a rare really good rocket early on, and then I usually had help. I win my Pharah duels much more often than not and usually feel comfortable going against Pharmercy as a lone Pharah, and I haven't figured out how to really hit Valk repeatedly yet. Granted, that's a lot of words from someone who plays a lot of Pharah and not too much of other things, but I do get to see Mercies keep people up for goddamn ever. She's too strong now as-is, and while I don't play Mercy a lot, I did to test out the new kit and I can't say I ever died a lot while going for an offensive rez. There were a few times I passed up diving into their team to rez the suicide Genji who kept trying to 1v6 the whole team, so maybe if you're doing that stop blowing your cooldowns on rezzing idiots and you won't die so much? e: Irony Be My Shield posted:I play Mercy if no-one else on my team will because playing anyone else would be throwing.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:22
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highmodulus posted:How many of you suggesting changes to Mercy actually play a lot of Mercy? Not once have I felt this kit was overpowered, especially while on offense. Heck, normally if I don't pick that kit often nobody else does as they all jump on the same 5 kits. Mercy is literally mandantory in competitive play right now. Based on her 95%+ pickrate and 52% winrate, she essentially has a 70%+ winrate in non-mirror matches (which only occur in less than 10% of all matches with a mercy). Something needs to change, and drastically. I like the idea of a channeled res out of ult quite a bit, but Mercy is the most broken a character in Overwatch has ever been. She's just benignly oppressive rather than aggressively so.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:16
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I disagree with it being benign, the constant rezzes slow fights to a crawl and the game is way too focused on whether you can kill that one hero.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:20
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one time I popped tac visor on an ulting mercy while standing on my healing station and she out dueled me that was embarrassing but I'm not sure how I could have played that better
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Sep 26, 2017 18:37
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I disagree with it being benign, the constant rezzes slow fights to a crawl and the game is way too focused on whether you can kill that one hero. It's probably more benign than launch McCree with 420 damage FTH
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Sep 26, 2017 18:41
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I don't know if you can keep getting away with it past Gold, but laying a trap behind a dead hero as Junkrat pretty much always catches either Mercy or the rezzed Hero. It's hysterical every single time it happens.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:47
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Semper Fudge posted:I don't know if you can keep getting away with it past Gold, but laying a trap behind a dead hero as Junkrat pretty much always catches either Mercy or the rezzed Hero. It's hysterical every single time it happens. I think you may have got me with this a few times. I am always like "Clever Girl" hunter in Jurassic Park. . . .
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Sep 26, 2017 18:49
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I tried to get a friend to play during the free weekend, but made the mistake of repeatedly rezzing him in place where he died, pretty much keeping him in a respawn state. I assume he found that frustrating. Perhaps if the hero had some ability to move while invulnerable, but not fire for a few seconds, after immediately coming back to life could balance the rez. Give them time to relocate without immediately hopping back into a fight.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:49
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Dodgeball posted:I tried to get a friend to play during the free weekend, but made the mistake of repeatedly rezzing him in place where he died, pretty much keeping him in a respawn state. I assume he found that frustrating. buffing res is not what it needs right now
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Sep 26, 2017 19:52
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Dodgeball posted:I tried to get a friend to play during the free weekend, but made the mistake of repeatedly rezzing him in place where he died, pretty much keeping him in a respawn state. I assume he found that frustrating. yeah and also they should give mercy invulnerability while rezzing after all, just kill mercy first. it's easy.
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