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BigRed0427 posted:So I just wached a quick video explaining why Toys R Us is going under and what a leveraged buyout is. Leveraged Buyouts are great ideas. You go into a shitload of debt to buy a company. You then transfer the obligation to pay off debt to that company. You then sell everything not bolted down and run that company into the ground doing a bunch of dumb short term profit poo poo. It all collapses but it doesn't matter because you made a fuckload of money.
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Sep 27, 2017 02:53
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and the ceo doesnt give a gently caress because theyre already multi millionaires anyway
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Sep 27, 2017 02:58
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Badger of Basra posted:Thrift stores aren't a new thing though. Why is this happening now? craigslist has apps that makes browsing for used poo poo as easy as browsing a magazine
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Sep 27, 2017 03:01
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God drat Capitalism sucks.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:02
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I think with things like Yelp and online reviews customers finally have a lot more power in retail negotiations, if a product isn't both perfect and cheap they're not going to buy it.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:03
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Well I'm pretty sure parents trading clothes and thrift shops aren't new, so that leaves: online shopping, people having fewer kids, and people having less money.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:12
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Solkanar512 posted:There was an interesting bit on Marketplace talking about how debt pushed onto the company (not sure exactly how this works) by hedge fund who invested in them prevented significant spending into the online arena. How this works is the hedge fund buys a company, borrows extensively in the company's name, pays themselves a ton of money and then the company struggles or goes bankrupt or whatever, the hedge fund guys don't care because they paid themselves and they're not liable for the company's debts. That's how Mitt Romney made his money.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:15
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call to action posted:Well I'm pretty sure parents trading clothes and thrift shops aren't new, so that leaves: online shopping, people having fewer kids, and people having less money. In my parents generation pretty much everyone in their peer group had kids by their mid to late 20's. In my very large social circle I know 2 people who have had kids even though over half are married by now. When rent takes up 50+% of your income, landlords can and will kick people out randomly so they can jack the rent up another 200 a month to someone new, and the economy is lovely and maternity leave is a joke very few people plan on kids. Or going shopping at any stores really. Money goes to eating out and "experiences". Also with everyone living in a tiny apartment and moving a lot it's hard to hoard consumer goods these days like the previous few generations. You can't just buy that new kitchen gadget that you end up never using for years because you literally don't have any place to store anything you don't use. There's no basement or garage to pile up with consumer junk, just a tiny galley kitchen and a 10x10 bedroom. What's hilarious is that so much of the previous generations massive consumer spending was bankrolled by the huge amounts of money they got out of their housing equity and the whole housing-as-investment scheme the government and finance encourages, but now a whole generation is priced out because boomers spent generations violently opposing anything that might see their house not go up in value fast enough. Then they yell about how millennials are killing retail and millennials are too selfish to have kids.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:26
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BigRed0427 posted:God drat Capitalism sucks. This type of thing started at a particular time. Guess the presidency corporate raiders really hit thier stride.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:42
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Baronjutter posted:Also with everyone living in a tiny apartment and moving a lot it's hard to hoard consumer goods these days like the previous few generations. You can't just buy that new kitchen gadget that you end up never using for years because you literally don't have any place to store anything you don't use. There's no basement or garage to pile up with consumer junk, just a tiny galley kitchen and a 10x10 bedroom. Probably another reason thrifting/craigslist/etc have gotten more popular: More and more people dumping stuff they don't want to store or move means a better and better selection of stuff for the buyers.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:43
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Haifisch posted:Plus everything you own is going to move to a new apartment several times, and gently caress moving anything you don't even use. So you can make money off that stuff in storage and stop paying for a rental?
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Sep 27, 2017 03:59
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Haifisch posted:Plus everything you own is going to move to a new apartment several times, and gently caress moving anything you don't even use. Since so many people around here have leases start and end on September 1st, we call the whole time surrounding that from when the first stuff gets left outside houses to the first time it rains after the Allston Christmas. The thrift stores get too much business to handle donations so stuff just goes on sidewalks and porches etc. Magius1337est posted:So you can make money off that stuff in storage and stop paying for a rental? Sure you can, but it's not usually all that much. fishmech fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 04:07
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Magius1337est posted:So you can make money off that stuff in storage and stop paying for a rental? Hahahaha what kinda one-horse town do you live in where you think selling some used appliances is all the difference between renting and owning
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Sep 27, 2017 04:08
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Hahahaha what kinda one-horse town do you live in where you think selling some used appliances is all the difference between renting and owning I think he means the rental you're paying on the storage unit full of stuff you don't need.
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Sep 27, 2017 04:19
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fishmech posted:I think he means the rental you're paying on the storage unit full of stuff you don't need. That's a very reasonable interpretation and therefore not at all funny 
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Sep 27, 2017 04:21
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I bought a house in 2014 and the value has gone up by like 60 percent, it owns
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Sep 27, 2017 04:27
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call to action posted:I bought a house in 2014 and the value has gone up by like 60 percent, it owns Lol enjoy the maintenance costs.
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Sep 27, 2017 04:34
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call to action posted:I bought a house in 2014 and the value has gone up by like 60 percent, it owns Same, but also the taxes have gone up 60%
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Sep 27, 2017 05:00
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Xae posted:Leveraged Buyouts are great ideas. Not quite. The private equity firms assumed ownership of Toys R Us with the hope that they could turn it around and then sell it (either unload it to someone else or IPO) within 5-8 years, but they failed. And this loss is passed on to the banks (who presumably get first dibs on the corpse) and private equity investors. Edit: or so it was explained to me. Maybe that's just the high finance propaganda bullshit line. Edit2: after thinking about this more, there's no way the individuals involved in these LBOs aren't making mad bank from doing them Rated PG-34 fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 05:36
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Same, but also the taxes have gone up 60% unless they're taxing your house at 100% i have little sympathy, bourgeois scum
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Sep 27, 2017 05:52
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Arglebargle III posted:How this works is the hedge fund buys a company, borrows extensively in the company's name, pays themselves a ton of money and then the company struggles or goes bankrupt or whatever, the hedge fund guys don't care because they paid themselves and they're not liable for the company's debts. In these situations, is there enough of a corpse to make the lenders whole as well? It would seem to me that once a bank sees the same fund do this a few times they wouldn't be lending out money quite so easily.
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Sep 27, 2017 10:11
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Rated PG-34 posted:Not quite. The private equity firms assumed ownership of Toys R Us with the hope that they could turn it around and then sell it (either unload it to someone else or IPO) within 5-8 years, but they failed. And this loss is passed on to the banks (who presumably get first dibs on the corpse) and private equity investors. yeah and also in the 5-8 years they get to charge hundreds of millions in "consultancy" and "transaction" fees
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Sep 27, 2017 12:19
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fishmech posted:No it's totally cool, kids who get locked in homeschooling with no touch with outside culture end up just fine! Just fine 
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Sep 27, 2017 12:34
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How do the lenders make money off these? If the hedge fund sells everything of value, does the liquidation actually make the lender back the loan they gave to the hedge fund in the first place?
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Sep 27, 2017 12:36
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Reveilled posted:How do the lenders make money off these? If the hedge fund sells everything of value, does the liquidation actually make the lender back the loan they gave to the hedge fund in the first place? in toys r us example, they charged about 400 million in interest per year
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Sep 27, 2017 12:45
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Again they often chain this poo poo. Just the lenders holding the potato when the music stops have to worry about liquidation.
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Sep 27, 2017 15:31
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call to action posted:I bought a house in 2014 and the value has gone up by like 60 percent, it owns I bought in May 2016 and I already have $25,000 in equity.
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Sep 27, 2017 16:42
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Badger of Basra posted:unless they're taxing your house at 100% i have little sympathy, bourgeois scum I think I'll make it without your sympathy.
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Sep 27, 2017 17:11
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anonumos posted:I bought in May 2016 and I already have $25,000 in equity. Eat the rich.
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Sep 27, 2017 19:17
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Bring on another "market correction".
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Sep 27, 2017 19:32
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You've only made money on housing after you've sold, everything else is paper gains. So so many people count their chicks before they hatch when it comes to that. I've seen countless boomers who mine their house equity to spend now and dig too deep and greedily then oops the market is down when you need to sell, or oops you didn't factor in that that 100k paper gain barely covers the soft costs of selling plus some code issues that need repairs before it can be sold.
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Sep 27, 2017 19:41
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BigRed0427 posted:God drat Capitalism sucks.
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Sep 27, 2017 20:10
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Lol enjoy the maintenance costs. Lol maintenance costs don't mean much when you made over $100k in two years for doing nothing HEY NONG MAN posted:Same, but also the taxes have gone up 60% I know, my tax burden is a ridiculous $1,700 a year, who could ever deal with that Baronjutter posted:You've only made money on housing after you've sold, everything else is paper gains. So so many people count their chicks before they hatch when it comes to that. I've seen countless boomers who mine their house equity to spend now and dig too deep and greedily then oops the market is down when you need to sell, or oops you didn't factor in that that 100k paper gain barely covers the soft costs of selling plus some code issues that need repairs before it can be sold. Luckily I'm in Colorado, aka the one place on the coasts besides Chicago that has real jobs and doesn't lynch gays, so you can go ahead and 'market correct' all you want this ain't Las Vegas. I'm expecting the value to increase as climate refugees flood inland.
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Sep 27, 2017 20:11
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Jesus. Keep this bookmarked for the inevitable 2035 thread "Whoops, Roving Water Gangs shot my wife and burned my house down. How do I recover all the  equity from the ashes?"
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Sep 27, 2017 21:29
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In a LBO there are three groups that make it happen the current shareholders the PE company and the lenders. The shareholders will get paid because to sell they will want more than market price to be offered. The pe company will get paid since they can withdraw value from the target company. The lenders though are not guaranteed to get paid, so they are very incentivised to make sure that the pe company can add value to the target company, otherwise it would make more sense for the lenders just to buy equity in the company itself. I don't know much about Bain capital, but given that they have been doing fund raising for pe for nearly 20 years, they prolly on average do add value to the companies they buy.
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Sep 27, 2017 21:44
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Bain Capital owns outright or large stakes in a ton of long term well performing companies, yeah. They've got or have had in the past stakes in companies from Dunkin Donuts to Burger King to Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (yes the textbook publisher).
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Sep 27, 2017 22:18
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Disclaimer: I am one of those brick-and-mortar murdering Amazonians (albeit one of the low-level ones that actually touches packages). Here's the issue with retail, as I see it - no magic and no loving pride. I'm not talking about the employees; rather, it's the whole ambiance, aesthetics, and atmosphere thing. So many retail stores feel like shopping in a warehouse, or in some office park suite, or they just seem overly pretentious for the area they're in. Hmm, yes, nice and shiny bookstore...right across from an obviously faded and never updated Arby's restaurant, and right next to some no-name tanning salon that never seems to get any real business. For non-essential stuff, years of economic pinching on the consumer side and a focus on cost-cutting and "value, value, value" have basically set a utilitarian precedent that is leading to a spiral. If I already work in a warehouse, why do I want to shop in one and pay the same (or more) for the same product when I can get it from all manner of online sellers? If I don't feel there's any fun to browsing, if I don't feel like I'll find anything new, if I and other consumers don't have some intangible and miniscule sense of wonder, surprise, or whatever the hell, then what's our motivation to waste time, gas, and money to go into a retail store unless we absolutely have to? It's bland, cookie-cutter bullshit. It's the aesthetic trappings that are generic and soulless, that say "Here's the bare minimum amount of effort we can expend to attract you, now give us your money!". It's the unmotivated staff, who don't get paid enough and don't have much authority or autonomy to run things on the ground. And one might argue that I'm coming at this from an entitled, First World perspective, that it's just thinking too much about consumerism and foo-foo capitalist materialism bullshit. But it does matter, in the same way that pop culture does (in fact) matter! This is the culture and society that we live in, that we work in, that we use to function and live our lives with. How we do retail reflects the state of that essential being. You can watch all manner of travel shows, and what's often a prominent point of interest in them? It's the local market/bazaar/retail district, the restaurants and food vendors, and that's because that is where the culture and values of the locals are readily apparent and reflected. It's meant to make you want to go there and browse, because it's new and exotic and an experience that you won't readily find where you are. That's what retail should be driving for to compete. So, to TL;DR - retail in the US just seems aggravatingly homogenous in how it tries to appeal to consumers, it's too focused on trying to compete on prices rather than service or ambiance or being a local institution, and many brands have written their own death warrants by training consumers into a mercenary "race to the bottom" mentality, rather than trying to inspire true loyalty and retention.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:14
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Kthulhu5000 posted:Disclaimer: I am one of those brick-and-mortar murdering Amazonians (albeit one of the low-level ones that actually touches packages). Isn't this kind of an odd criticism coming from someone who is employed because of Amazon; whose success and growth is built 100% upon the alter of "competing on prices" and foregoing ambiance and flash in favor of convenience and costs?
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Sep 28, 2017 20:21
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Counterpoint: Costco is literally a warehouse and is my favorite place to shop (sans all the disneyland-esque space mountain crowds at all hours of the day, which means its doing insanely well)
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Sep 28, 2017 20:26
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Kthulhu5000 posted:
But the actual residents of whatever foreign land are just going to their own countries' chains and such for a lot of their shopping in reality.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:27
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