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LuiCypher posted:Unfortunately, I wish this player was new to the lore and was interested in learning more about it. He knows a fair amount about 40k lore and fluff and decided that he hates it - he won't engage with the fluff in the context of the game. I don't mind one bit if my players are clueless about 40k fluff but if you say "yo, your world sucks and I won't deal with it at all" I don't really see why you should be let in the game. I mean, I'd talk with them, see if there's a way to make it work. (but it sounds like you already did this) Don't ruin your game with Geek Social Fallacies. I had a friend who wanted to play in my game and it just wasn't gonna work, I told them as much, they didn't play in the game, we're still friends.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:45
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I have to agree. A player who's unwilling to engage with the setting is a dramabomb waiting to happen. Making light of the setting from within the setting is one thing, but a "gently caress this, gently caress that, gently caress everything in particular" attitude is toxic and will only ruin the game for everyone else, and possibly cause external problems.
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Sep 15, 2017 19:09
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Ashcans posted:He was a normal human in service to the Rogue Trader, but was brutally murdered by a rival house who knew that losing a key crew member could devastate some tenuous trade contracts. In desperation, the Rogue Trader contracted a radical Mechanicus Biologis to perform an immediate cranial transplant. The procedure was too grueling for any human body to survive, but fortunately there were ongoing Ork incursions in the system and orks are nothing if not durable... so now the Seneschal lives on borrowed time with his surviving brain matter wired into an Ork skull, and has to cope with fits where the remaining ork consciousness tries to reassert control. See? This poo poo is awesome
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Sep 15, 2017 19:13
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I don't even know the guy, and I already think he's a douchenozzle.
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Sep 16, 2017 05:17
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Free time is a finite resource, don't play with colossal egomaniacs who bring nothing to the table?
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Sep 16, 2017 08:27
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S.J. posted:Or an Ork weirdboy who's possessed by a daemon that's actually a fragment of the Emperor's soul and so is devoted as gently caress to humanity this is like the most imperium secundus special-snowflake backstory i can think of Ashcans posted:He was a normal human in service to the Rogue Trader, but was brutally murdered by a rival house who knew that losing a key crew member could devastate some tenuous trade contracts. In desperation, the Rogue Trader contracted a radical Mechanicus Biologis to perform an immediate cranial transplant. The procedure was too grueling for any human body to survive, but fortunately there were ongoing Ork incursions in the system and orks are nothing if not durable... so now the Seneschal lives on borrowed time with his surviving brain matter wired into an Ork skull, and has to cope with fits where the remaining ork consciousness tries to reassert control. this is great though
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Sep 16, 2017 11:52
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Ashcans posted:He was a normal human in service to the Rogue Trader, but was brutally murdered by a rival house who knew that losing a key crew member could devastate some tenuous trade contracts. In desperation, the Rogue Trader contracted a radical Mechanicus Biologis to perform an immediate cranial transplant. The procedure was too grueling for any human body to survive, but fortunately there were ongoing Ork incursions in the system and orks are nothing if not durable... so now the Seneschal lives on borrowed time with his surviving brain matter wired into an Ork skull, and has to cope with fits where the remaining ork consciousness tries to reassert control. yer in da sunken place now, ya git
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Sep 16, 2017 17:15
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Captain Varsson strode onto the bridge, projecting the confidence he must but did not feel. His new batman awaited. Trapped, inevitably, he had to meet Trubonez. Taking a deep breath, and adjusting the frogging on his coat, Varsson arrived and looked his new 'man' up and down. There was an attempt at a uniform, it certainly had some care given to it; the rips caused by outsize muscles were mended, the oversize dress shoes were crudely coloured red (a detail that Varsson, being someowhat well read on the subject of xenos, could not help but appreciate) and was that...? Was that an attempt at a tie? Some sort of bolo tie but unfortunately hampered by being made from a large mutated rat. Oh no, he salutes. Swift and snappy but not exactly precise, the Ork's thumb only barely did not pierce his own ear drum. (on the subject of stormboyz) NLJP fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Sep 23, 2017 |
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Sep 23, 2017 00:51
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jeevez and woostaaaaagh "OI WOZ SENT BY THE PAINBOYZ, SAH. OI WOZ GIVEN TA UNDERSTAND THAT YA NEEDED A VALET"
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Sep 23, 2017 10:01
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A hangover cure made of methylated spirits, squig squeezin's and bromine.
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Sep 23, 2017 10:34
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DH2 questions: What's a warbands starting subtlety? Couldn't find it anywhere. When requisitioning an item, how many players can try to make the roll? The book says to substitute 1 square for 1 meter on a battle map. That seems rather excessive. Should I do 2m pr square instead?
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Sep 24, 2017 00:05
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Whatever seems appropriate. Whatever seems appropriate. If it seems appropriate.
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Sep 24, 2017 00:08
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That's not helpful at all 
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Sep 24, 2017 00:11
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Subtlety is an odd mechanic that I'm not convinced ever worked. Theoretically a team should probably be zero at the start of a run until they do something that draws attention, or are just good enough at their jobs that 'power' starts paying attention to them. Requisition rolls for personal poo poo should be personal, team poo poo should be as many people as are invested. Or one for the team. Depends how much they deserve it. It doesn't really matter. It's just a map.
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Sep 24, 2017 00:23
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re: subtlety i start with 50 (as per p270) and don't ever roll against it (using it as a threshold to trigger things instead), but i don't think it's a very good mechanic anyway req tests are entirely based off the situation. are you sending the team off to go shop in a hive for a day, or is it a one-off attempt at barter? in any case you can't assist an Influence roll for someone else, i'd say re: map, yes, do 2m, do whatever your heart compels. if it's a long-range firefight then do more. if it's a knife-fight in a shop then do 1m a square.
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Sep 24, 2017 00:56
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I love that both the requisition tests and subtlety stuff were things we brought up in the playtest as not working/not being clear/needing way more help and guidance with and after being mostly dismissed, it becomes one of the most commonly asked questions. Or people just don't use it .
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Sep 26, 2017 03:32
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kingcom posted:I love that both the requisition tests and subtlety stuff were things we brought up in the playtest as not working/not being clear/needing way more help and guidance with and after being mostly dismissed, it becomes one of the most commonly asked questions. Or people just don't use it . To be fair, req tests have always been uniquely terrible. It's why if you play Black Crusade, you try and get your weapon of choice as a legacy or daemon weapon so you don't really have a reason to ever have to deal reqqing an upgrade.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:37
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DeathSandwich posted:To be fair, req tests have always been uniquely terrible. It's why if you play Black Crusade, you try and get your weapon of choice as a legacy or daemon weapon so you don't really have a reason to ever have to deal reqqing an upgrade. And it's why I was saying they should take the opportunity to improve and/or make it much clearer how a equipment progression system should work when they made a 2e.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:57
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Having requisitions be a random thing you maybe get to do each session with oddball modifiers thrown out there by your GM is stupid. It lets me get a power fist with my melee monster character while none of us actually have anything more than AP5 yet just because the dice say so, and Sister Borgia has been punching to death everything in the galaxy since. Having a resource build up with your achievements so you can spend it is fine and good and intuitive. If it works for XP, why not money? The Imperium is overwrought and baroque, so we need some suitably faux-latin name for it, like... Throne Gelt! Yeah! Ah, they'd never go for it.
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Sep 26, 2017 04:54
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They could use those modifiers to modify price and determine availability. This bumfuck asteroid outpost will never have a power fist for sale, but a frontier world merchant might find one that fell off a Chimera... for a price. An inflated price.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:05
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wiegieman posted:Having requisitions be a random thing you maybe get to do each session with oddball modifiers thrown out there by your GM is stupid. It lets me get a power fist with my melee monster character while none of us actually have anything more than AP5 yet just because the dice say so, and Sister Borgia has been punching to death everything in the galaxy since. Holy Moley! If only someone had suggested such a system.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:32
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I think out of all the systems Deathwatch has the best one. You have your renown that goes up as you level, giving you access to stronger stuff, acting as that gate to keep the super strong stuff behind. Then you have your mission requisition, which is the gear you get for that mission. Yeah, you have to turn it in after, but you can buy it the next mission if you get the req. Find something you really like? That's what the signature wargear talent is for. Spend exp to give yourself something every mission. Something that is your own. A similar system could work with Only War and Dark heresy 2. Have Dark Heresy 2 be like deathwatch where your inquisitor is able to make some equipment available to you. As your group gets more renown/influence, the Inquisitor is willing to trust you with more fancy things as you go from throwaway assets to Throne Agents.
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Sep 26, 2017 06:05
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By the way, what other playtester suggestions were ignored?
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Sep 26, 2017 06:24
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Making requisition rolls really only works for Black Crusade (where poo poo is hosed because heretic "society" is a suggestion) and sort of Rogue Trader (where you can afford anything, you just need to find it first.)
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Sep 26, 2017 06:40
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JcDent posted:By the way, what other playtester suggestions were ignored? On Dark Heresy 2e or in general?
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Sep 26, 2017 07:59
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kingcom posted:On Dark Heresy 2e or in general? IF you could do both, that would be great. Ever since Habermann ended his Legendary LP with an interview with one of the testers for the game, I have been slightly interested in game devs hiring people to test their game, listening to what they found out and going "nah"
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Sep 26, 2017 08:10
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JcDent posted:IF you could do both, that would be great. Ever since Habermann ended his Legendary LP with an interview with one of the testers for the game, I have been slightly interested in game devs hiring people to test their game, listening to what they found out and going "nah" What is this thing of which you speak?  has failed me.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:05
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This LP! Unfortunately, Habermann had a falling out with SA and, a few years after that, shitcanned most of the video game stuff he had made. So that interview is gone.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:47
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JcDent posted:This LP! Too bad, I'm always a fan of RPG-creation disaster stories.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:59
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JcDent posted:IF you could do both, that would be great. Ever since Habermann ended his Legendary LP with an interview with one of the testers for the game, I have been slightly interested in game devs hiring people to test their game, listening to what they found out and going "nah" My group worked on the older version of Dark Heresy 2e if you remember from the original beta before it turned into an Only War rehash so a bunch of this is going to sound like rambling nonsense I think but I'll take a stab at what I remember. They originally wanted to do this this kind of crazy action point system where everyone had 4 points to spend and weapons had different fire rates with some needing you to stack up points over multiple turns to even fire etc. It was basically very complicated and could have worked with some revision and rework but they kinda just pushed it out with the assumption that it was just a limited negative experience from the testers and/or fear of change that kept it down. The great irony is that I think the negative feedback specifically on this sub system from putting those rules out in the open is what drove them to simply redoing the same game they'd been selling again. Ironically they really should have focused on doing something new. I'm pretty commonly on record hating the attribute/open character creation system because it makes the power gap between people who do a lot of work planning out their character and the people who don't increasingly larger as time goes on. This makes it a goddamn nightmare to GM and I've never been able to run or even play in a game where this hasn't caused massive issues down the line. I bring this up because one of the big things they were trying to do with the old rules was to make combat less of a nightmare horror thing and encourage a bit more of a kick down the door and actually have engaging and clever combats. They even had a big encounter building system but the big problem was that thanks to the aptitude system led to massively divergent power level that made this very difficult to calibrate even roughly right. They tried a few different approaches to try and make you have some vague semblance of a 'class' or skill set as one of the big complaints is that nobody ever had much of a clearly defined role or idea of what they should be doing. I guess some people can find that a boon but it became very tricky to advise people on what they should take or having a negative reaction when what they took turned out to not actually help them with what they wanted to do. A lot of the experiments and research you could see end up getting used in stuff like the star wars system so it's not a complete waste or anything. For example one of the methods they tried was a talent tree system that would have a grouped category of like minded talents to go down to give a focused path and keep a power curve in tact (they would obviously go back to this style for Edge of the Empire). I kinda liked this method as all you needed to do to start this tree was buy one of the top talents with general xp and then you could starting buying the better powers down the tree's branches (the psychic powers already do this for example). This did however lead to some super hilarious nonsense with the archetypes, like the optimal assassin actually being someone who ignores the assassin role and takes adept as it gets them the right aptitudes and gives them the talents that starts them down the melee combat tree. Or psykers actually all needing to be hierophants or else they would be super poo poo at most of the powers they actually wanted because it gave the right aptitude spread for getting the rights stats up. Honestly one thing I always always advocated that I don't even know if it ever came about is making sure you have a very clear cut and organised starting adventure for the game that goes into detail explaining how and why things happen. Your beginner adventure is literally your only opportunity to show players how and why they're supposed to be doing things and Dark Heresy 2e instead had a vague adventure module thing that would probably have been fine for a normal adventure but was super sandboxy and free form, something you really don't want for people's first experiences. The Ideal beginner adventurers actually were made for the Star Was system imo as Edge of the Empire has a super great tutorial with getting people to understand the tone, the themes, the types of enemies and the default assumption on problem solving. For Dark Heresy 2e there never was a clear scale of what authority you had or how you were intended to solve problems. Going back to the Subtly system, was there ever a downside to just opening fire and screaming that you're from the inquisition? Is it just a GM tracker? If so why is there so much granularity for it? This is something that should be clearly and carefully detailed into your beginner adventure to show why it's a good tool and mechanic and how you should use it. Hopefully some of that was readable and I want to make it clear that I'm not saying the whole thing was disaster or anything as I think at the very least there was some design principles that were learn't by the development team but it's one of those things where they had the chance to do something that cut out a lot of the real pain points of Dark Heresy but kinda didn't.
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Sep 27, 2017 01:49
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....so we can all hope that Cubicle 7 will do better? They will probably format the books better.
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Sep 27, 2017 05:35
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JcDent posted:....so we can all hope that Cubicle 7 will do better? I mean I hope 'FFG are garbage' is not what you got out of that. I really like a lot of FFG's design ethos and they produce, for the most part, a lot of very fun games. I absolutely adore their Star Wars game line and recommend every who ever plans to write an RPG system go have a look at how they handle conflict resolution and their base mechanics. They are definitely not perfect but their fundamental system is one that is entirely designed around create an exciting narrative while still giving you some crunch to hang on to. Also wasn't it Ulisses and not Cubicle 7 doing Dark Heresy? Cubicle 7 was selling warhammer fantasy so maybe they're doing that? kingcom fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 06:45
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If you think ffg books are poorly laid out, try shadowrun books. Ffg at least usually keeps things somewhat together. The worst I think is in battlefleet koronus there is a rule that fundamentally impacts how torpedos work which isn't mentioned in the torpedos section and you need to find it in the attack craft section a chapter later. Shadowrun is like an exercise in nonlinear rules writing. I still don't know how the matrix works despite running a game. The best feature is that none of the players did either so I could just make it up on the fly.
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Sep 27, 2017 06:56
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Felime posted:If you think ffg books are poorly laid out, try shadowrun books. Ffg at least usually keeps things somewhat together. Shadowrun is a legit nightmare to even parse and every time I remember how much I love cyberpunk I get scared off just trying to figure out character creation.
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Sep 27, 2017 07:03
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Just ask Werix about how long it took us all to find out that, yes, hull damage also damages crew and morale when it's at the end of a wall of text in the middle of a page where nothing important should go, ever. Not that we have a problem with it, because I'm going to auction off a spaceship that we boarded.
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Sep 27, 2017 07:07
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Are Shadowrun books universally badly formated? The most I got from it all was that 5e book is beautiful, but the rules are awfully convoluted (so you throw down a grenade into a well that contains a rat)
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Sep 27, 2017 08:22
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kingcom posted:Shadowrun is a legit nightmare to even parse and every time I remember how much I love cyberpunk I get scared off just trying to figure out character creation. This is why everyone in our group uses the Chummer app for Char gen or else we would've never played.
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Sep 27, 2017 11:14
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wiegieman posted:Just ask Werix about how long it took us all to find out that, yes, hull damage also damages crew and morale when it's at the end of a wall of text in the middle of a page where nothing important should go, ever. And it just wasn't me. I've played RT before with other GMs and none of them ever played by that rule, and not because they thought it was a bad one. I just thought critical hits are where morale and crew damage came from. I mean it makes sense that not critical damage does it, but it seems like something that should be bolded, at the beginning of a section, or in a giant neon loving box. Also lets talk about how broken bombers are and how every ship in my campaign is now suddenly going to have to have fighter bays to counter that bull. kingcom posted:I mean I hope 'FFG are garbage' is not what you got out of that. I really like a lot of FFG's design ethos and they produce, for the most part, a lot of very fun games. They do a really good job on their non RPG design too. Mansions of Madness is fun and designed well enough for what it is. Lots of people like the X-Wings miniatures. At Gen Con this year my best friend picked up a really fun Game of Thrones game that I found fun as someone who never watched the show. I found the game so fun that it (and a lot of coaxing from the girlfriend) has me watching the show now and enjoying it. So yeah, FFG isn't bad by any term.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:32
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Werix posted:Also lets talk about how broken bombers are and how every ship in my campaign is now suddenly going to have to have fighter bays to counter that bull. That's end-of-WWII naval combat for ya 
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Sep 27, 2017 13:39
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JcDent posted:That's end-of-WWII naval combat for ya Bombers are literally multiple hit macro cannons that are not blocked by shields, don't give negatives for range, are fired using a command check, and can only be countered by turrets and fighter screens. I might have to make bomber squad losses permanent so that way the players are more sparing in their use. Granted the fight they had was an under powered one allowing them to get the ropes of space combat, but two cruisers and three frigates wasn't even a challenge.
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Sep 27, 2017 17:00
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