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when poverty doesn't exist in china because you've spent all your time in major cities
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Sep 27, 2017 23:44
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Jose posted:you said poverty won't exist which is a pretty loving bold claim comrade, it does not matter if poverty in China exists or not, only that the statistics published to the outside says it exists or not
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Sep 27, 2017 23:45
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Jose posted:when poverty doesn't exist in china because you've spent all your time in major cities there's roughly 3 cities in China which you could say that for even in a major city outside beijing/shanghai/guangzhou you just walk around and wander you'll see poverty pretty drat fast like in Wuhan I accidentally wondered into this dorm like thing for migrant workers and holy poo poo
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Sep 27, 2017 23:46
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Jose posted:you said poverty won't exist which is a pretty loving bold claim that is the stated goal of the cpc, yes do you even know about the hundreds of thousands of staff sent into rural china to address poverty there? the massive public works projects to that end? unless the prc is a potemkin country it's really happening
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Sep 27, 2017 23:46
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have you gone to investigate to see that this is happening?
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Sep 27, 2017 23:47
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i'm going to stop posting and making GBS threads up this thread sorry everyone
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Sep 27, 2017 23:48
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Typo posted:pretty sure the democratic voting base is more than 25% female Does voting base correlate to party membership? I was under the impression that the CCP as a political body was something you had to go out of your way to join. Unlike The USA where it's actively harder to vote if you don't register with one of the two parties
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Sep 27, 2017 23:49
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Typo posted:Socialism, as envisioned by Europeans, is of course unsuited to China's many unique conditions Have you heard of this guy called Mao? He wrote some pretty lit stuff imo u should look him up
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Sep 27, 2017 23:49
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which is the more logical explanation: china is doing something it said it would do, or is so good at doctoring photos and building fake villages they can do it on a massive scale just to trick westerners who will hate them anyway
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Sep 27, 2017 23:50
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Jose posted:have you gone to investigate to see that this is happening? I've gone to rural china on my last trip there I went to one of those heavily subsidized newly built towns being built and the projects usually enriches some peasants through land purchased (contrary to common belief, most peasants gets fair compensation but a significant minority just gets beaten up and their land taken away), it's kinda ehhhh while I'm sure construction creates jobs it inflicts massive environmental impact and also, a lot of those towns have nobody living in them and a significant proportion never will
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Sep 27, 2017 23:51
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MikeCrotch posted:Have you heard of this guy called Mao? He wrote some pretty lit stuff imo u should look him up Chairman Mao is, of course, 70 percent correct and 30 percent wrong Comrade Deng corrected that 30 percent No need to read outdated Mao thoughts which are 30% wrong when you can read Deng Xiaoping thoughts which is 0% wrong
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Sep 27, 2017 23:52
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Dreddout posted:Does voting base correlate to party membership? this is true also worth mentioning that the npc and cppcc (legislatures) have similar numbers for women and better ones, higher than the actual proportions, for ethnic minorities. so china does have the us beat when it comes to participation in the legislature
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Sep 27, 2017 23:53
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R. Guyovich posted:which is the more logical explanation: china is doing something it said it would do, or is so good at doctoring photos and building fake villages they can do it on a massive scale just to trick westerners who will hate them anyway um.. the latter you loving dingus
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Sep 27, 2017 23:55
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R. Guyovich posted:this is true legislatures in China has no power, power in China is in the bureaucracies, the party hierarchy and informal Guanxi networks. In the us legislatures actually have power composition of china legislature is whatever the party thinks look pretty
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Sep 27, 2017 23:56
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Typo posted:pretty sure the democratic voting base is more than 25% female Voting does little more than ratify the agenda that's already been set in the absence of a voter's revolt. It's far more important to have a party whose organizing body is representative of the public, rather than being representative of lawyers and millionaires.
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Sep 28, 2017 00:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Voting does little more than ratify the agenda that's already been set in the absence of a voter's revolt. It's far more important to have a party whose organizing body is representative of the public, rather than being representative of lawyers and millionaires. unironically select the legislature by sortition 
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Sep 28, 2017 00:34
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https://twitter.com/thelateempire/status/913173692137578497
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Sep 28, 2017 00:47
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and it's parliament is just as much of a useless mask over real power as any other
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Sep 28, 2017 01:11
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Tesseraction posted:deng xiaoping thought working out great do you see what happens Tesseraction ? do you see what happens Tesseraction when you reify the law of productive forces? this is what happens  this is what happens  Tesseraction this is what happens when you reify the law of productive forces 
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Sep 28, 2017 01:52
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I'm starting to feel this 'China' place isn't quite the workers' paradise I was promised
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Sep 28, 2017 02:05
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Typo posted:legislatures in China has no power, power in China is in the bureaucracies, the party hierarchy and informal Guanxi networks. In the us legislatures actually have power this isn't true. the npc elects the 150-member standing committee which has legislative power in npc off-periods and the npc session is a valuable time for deputies to voice the concerns of their constituents to higher state bodies also there is still no such thing as private property in china, you can't own land. the most you can do is take out a long-term lease from the state speaking of the npc being "powerless," that body was responsible for clarifying big portions of the 2006 property law that led to its cancellation and rewriting for the next npc. the constitutional challenges to the 2006 law happened at the npc.
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Sep 28, 2017 02:27
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R. Guyovich posted:also there is still no such thing as private property in china, you can't own land. the most you can do is take out a long-term lease from the state comrade considering how people get extremely wealthy in China, do you really think this is a good description of how private property exists in China?
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Sep 28, 2017 02:30
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Yandat posted:comrade considering how people get extremely wealthy in China, do you really think this is a good description of how private property exists in China? fancy cars aren't a mode of production
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Sep 28, 2017 02:32
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R. Guyovich posted:fancy cars aren't a mode of production that's a huge deflection of the amount of power and class people gain from financial and party power. they execute a few people a year for corruption but what do you think is actually going on there
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Sep 28, 2017 02:34
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Yandat posted:that's a huge deflection of the amount of power and class people gain from financial and party power. they execute a few people a year for corruption but what do you think is actually going on there there are numerous controls on this tendency. the anti-corruption campaign is a lot bigger than a couple high-profile executions. over a hundred thousand indictments and hundreds of high-profile officials getting expelled or put in jail there's also state control over top executive pay which, in recent years, has been cut drastically as a measure of curbing inequality. not to mention strict regulation on foreign investment. wages and benefits are also steadily increasing for the whole country. the government still has ownership of the commanding heights of the economy and has accepted a certain level of inequality as necessary for economic growth. now, and in a few years once the poverty goals have been met, would be the time for that inequality to reduce. if it doesn't, you have a case
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Sep 28, 2017 02:49
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R. Guyovich posted:there are numerous controls on this tendency. the anti-corruption campaign is a lot bigger than a couple high-profile executions. over a hundred thousand indictments and hundreds of high-profile officials getting expelled or put in jail i genuinely hope that the communist party has a plan, and has people in positions of power who are trying to build communism, and aren't just looking out for themselves most ruling classes are full of fucks trying to cover their own asses, I don't know why China would be different
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Sep 28, 2017 02:52
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Yandat posted:
because home ex needs China to be different for the sake of their ego
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Sep 28, 2017 02:59
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Autism Sneaks posted:because home ex needs China to be different for the sake of their ego these are genuine conclusions i've reached after a great deal of investigation. i used to believe the prc was hyper-capitalist. what reason would i have to change my mind? certainly not the popularity of that opinion, lol
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Sep 28, 2017 07:36
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Guyovich, what's your opinion on other leftists, specifically Hoxha calling China revisionist? I'd honestly like to hear you opinion on the subject R. Guyovich posted:fancy cars aren't a mode of production Yeah, but production for exchange and wage labor still exist, so I'm pretty sure China is still Capitalist. quote:the government still has ownership of the commanding heights of the economy and has accepted a certain level of inequality as necessary for economic growth. So did France under Gaul, what's your point? quote:in a few years once the poverty goals have been met, would be the time for that inequality to reduce. if it doesn't, you have a case Guyovich take the 
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Sep 28, 2017 07:42
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"Comrades, our economic problems are nothing to do with how our society is structured and will be solved by growth, not redistribution." said the Chinese entrepreneur to rounds of applause in a closed political session of the government. Hmmmm.....
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Sep 28, 2017 08:17
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https://twitter.com/turing_police/status/913306934735806464
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Sep 28, 2017 08:41
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Dreddout posted:Guyovich, what's your opinion on other leftists, specifically Hoxha calling China revisionist? that's not really debatable. the prc IS revisionist. the question is whether the revisionism is bad enough to be called a turn toward capitalism. i don't think so. remember multiple modes of production can exist in a single state, yet what's most important is which mode of production is dominant. you mention de gaulle but don't also mention that government was under heavy influence from the french communists. i'd also argue that the level of nationalization then wasn't even as strong as it is in the current day prc
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Sep 28, 2017 09:32
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Tesseraction posted:I'm starting to feel this 'China' place isn't quite the workers' paradise I was promised lol look at this gwailo doubting 5000 years of unbroken perfect rule
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Sep 28, 2017 10:24
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China: "We are capitalist now, we loving love capital and McDonalds and we think private property is the best thing ever" Tankies: "The scope of Chinese revisionism is not readily apparent, and we should suppress any criticism of the glorious people's republic for the moment being"
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Sep 28, 2017 11:27
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steinrokkan posted:China: "We are capitalist now, we loving love capital and McDonalds and we think private property is the best thing ever" considering every public release by the cpc or state council affirms its commitment to socialism i'd call this a mite disingenuous
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Sep 28, 2017 12:14
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R. Guyovich posted:considering every public release by the cpc or state council affirms its commitment to socialism i'd call this a mite disingenuous While this is true, and I understand the principles of a socialist state adopting the capitalist mode of production in order to industrialise, it does feel like the CPC are dragging their feet on the subsequent transition to a socialist economy.
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Sep 28, 2017 12:21
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R. Guyovich posted:this isn't true. the npc elects the 150-member standing committee which has legislative power in npc off-periods and the npc session is a valuable time for deputies to voice the concerns of their constituents to higher state bodies what you are saying is that the legislature is a rubber-stamp body for the party in all but a few cases
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Sep 28, 2017 15:58
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Voting does little more than ratify the agenda that's already been set in the absence of a voter's revolt. It's far more important to have a party whose organizing body is representative of the public, rather than being representative of lawyers and millionaires. lol if you think the CCP isn't a party which primarily represents the interests of millionaires and billionaires
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Sep 28, 2017 15:59
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R. Guyovich posted:that's not really debatable. the prc IS revisionist. the question is whether the revisionism is bad enough to be called a turn toward capitalism. i don't think so. remember multiple modes of production can exist in a single state, yet what's most important is which mode of production is dominant. socialism sure produces a lot of billionaires  and lol if you think they are taxed properly 
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Sep 28, 2017 16:01
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chinese billionaires just buy property in vancouver, so it's chill
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Sep 28, 2017 16:10
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