Current Events September 2017: 6-foot-7 grandfather

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Current Events September 2017: 6-foot-7 grandfather

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Canemacar: Mar 8, 2008

Duke Chin posted:

what does $1.09 get me these days after being adjusted for inflation?

The freedom to blink in a slightly asynchronous fashion.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:17

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 18:00

facialimpediment: Feb 11, 2005; as the world turns

Good poo poo from Aaron Rodgers.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZjpUNpF7iA/

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:24

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

facialimpediment posted:

Good poo poo from Aaron Rodgers.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZjpUNpF7iA/

That's outstanding

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:40

FastestGunAlive: Apr 7, 2010; Dancing palm tree.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Counterpoint: Lee was a highly intelligent and aggressive general who was an expert at identifying the psychology of his opponent, and only very rarely made truly disastrous decisions (Picket's Charge). He was hands off, but that was because he knew how to delegate to his typically subordinates, particularly Stonewall Jackson and Longstreet (Though obviously this was far less effective after Jackson died and Longstreet was transfered west).

To put it bluntly: A mediocre general does not win Chancellorsville. Hell, a merely good general doesn't win Chancellorsville. And Lee didn't just win-he inflicted one of the most crushing military victories of all time on Joe Hooker. That, in spite of everything else, says a hell of a lot for his ability.

Counter counter point. His aggression hastened the destruction of his army, particularly in genius moves like deciding to invade Maryland. He demonstrates tactical prowess at Chancellorsville but if he had any operational or strategic knowledge he could have done even better by doing basic things such as conducting reconnaissance and making maps or establishing worthwhile staffs. Despite his engineering experience, his army had no engineer corps to speak of, weak artillery and negligible comm, logistics, and Intel. For four months before Chancellorsville he and his generals sat idle instead of scouting or doing much of anything. Jackson even died, shot by his own men, while on a night time recon, because he had maps and no knowledge of the terrain. Chancellorsville may have demonstrated some brilliant maneuvering but he came out worse overall then the federals; he could afford his casualties far less than they could.

He was not delegative, he was hand cuffed by his own concept of gentlemanly conduct. There was a serious hesitation to hold generals accountable for poor performance, as not to offend their honor. After Gettysburg he wrote "I hope the official reports will protect the reputation of every officer."

At Malvern Hill he gave the responsibility for assessing the effects of confederate artillery and thus signaling the general assault to the brigadier general located on the far right of his army; who could neither observe it nor communicate the order to the rest the army effectively. When Hood was arrested by Evans, Lee did not interfere or rule on what his subordinates were doing. When Antietam started, he asked Hood to apologize to Evans so that he could be released to lead his men. When Hood refused, Lee compromised by having the arrest temporarily suspended.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:47

MRC48B: Apr 2, 2012

Still better than McClellan.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:55

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

MRC48B posted:

Still better than McClellan.

Well if he had only had more men...

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:58

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

MRC48B posted:

Still better than McClellan.

McClellan was an excellent raiser and trainer of Armies. But that was about it.

Grant/Sherman knew how to both appear to be the approachable and humane commanders while making the necessary calls to USE those Armies on the field.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 02:58

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

The only good Civil War general was Sherman

General Sherman posted:

War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over

That dude hosed

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:00

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

milk milk lemonade posted:

That dude hosed

That was a good quote, but you really can't quote that without the rest

quote:

You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war. The United States does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling.
You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Atlanta can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride.
We do want and will have a just obedience to the laws of the United States. That we will have, and, if it involves the destruction of your improvements, we cannot help it.
You have heretofore read public sentiment in your newspapers, that live by falsehood and excitement; and the quicker you seek for truth in other quarters, the better. I repeat then that, by the original compact of government, the United States had certain rights in Georgia, which have never been relinquished and never will be; that the South began the war by seizing forts, arsenals, mints, custom-houses, etc., etc., long before Mr. Lincoln was installed, and before the South had one jot or tittle of provocation. I myself have seen in Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi, hundreds and thousands of women and children fleeing from your armies and desperadoes, hungry and with bleeding feet. In Memphis, Vicksburg, and Mississippi, we fed thousands and thousands of the families of rebel soldiers left on our hands, and whom we could not see starve. Now that war comes to you, you feel very different. You deprecate its horrors, but did not feel them when you sent car-loads of soldiers and ammunition, and moulded shells and shot, to carry war into Kentucky and Tennessee, to desolate the homes of hundreds and thousands of good people who only asked to live in peace at their old homes, and under the Government of their inheritance. But these comparisons are idle. I want peace, and believe it can only be reached through union and war, and I will ever conduct war with a view to perfect an early success.

He was responding to criticism from the citizens of Atlanta who were (naturally) very upset that he planned to burn the city, and he basically said "You helped pursue this war, you helped supply the armies wrecked and burning in the North, and now that it is turned upon you, you cannot take it? Please."

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:03

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

CommieGIR posted:

That was a good quote, but you really can't quote that without the rest

He was responding to criticism from the citizens of Atlanta who were (naturally) very upset that he planned to burn the city, and he basically said "You helped pursue this war, you helped supply the armies wrecked and burning in the North, and now that it is turned upon you, you cannot take it? Please."

God if wasn't for his treatment of native Americans he would be the Saint of War.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:10

FastestGunAlive: Apr 7, 2010; Dancing palm tree.

MRC48B posted:

Still better than McClellan.

Yea you right.

Like I said, not saying he's the worst general ever or the worst general of the ACW, but that, his military legacy is an aspect that is embellished and deified like everything else about him in the context of the Lost Cause and l that

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:13

Mr. Mambold: Feb 13, 2011; Aha. Nice post.

CommieGIR posted:

That was a good quote, but you really can't quote that without the rest

He was responding to criticism from the citizens of Atlanta who were (naturally) very upset that he planned to burn the city, and he basically said "You helped pursue this war, you helped supply the armies wrecked and burning in the North, and now that it is turned upon you, you cannot take it? Please."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman
Nickname(s) "Cump"
"Uncle Billy" (by his troops)

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:17

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Mr. Mambold posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman
Nickname(s) "Cump"
"Uncle Billy" (by his troops)

Yup, his guys loved him.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:21

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

LingcodKilla posted:

God if wasn't for his treatment of native Americans he would be the Saint of War.

I mean... isn't he still?

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:23

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

good ol' cump

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:24

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Chichevache posted:

I mean... isn't he still?

The best Saint of War: The one who realized it was an evil tool that brought only misery and pain, and didn't glorify it.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:26

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

He's the God of War.

Who are we to question his deeds?

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:28

Hexyflexy: Sep 2, 2011; asymptotically approaching one

CommieGIR posted:

That was a good quote, but you really can't quote that without the rest

He was responding to criticism from the citizens of Atlanta who were (naturally) very upset that he planned to burn the city, and he basically said "You helped pursue this war, you helped supply the armies wrecked and burning in the North, and now that it is turned upon you, you cannot take it? Please."

Out of all the major players in the American civil war, he's the only one I'd like to meet. Probably call me an idiot.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:33

Acebuckeye13: Nov 2, 2010; Against All Tyrants; Ultra Carp

FastestGunAlive posted:

Counter counter point. His aggression hastened the destruction of his army, particularly in genius moves like deciding to invade Maryland. He demonstrates tactical prowess at Chancellorsville but if he had any operational or strategic knowledge he could have done even better by doing basic things such as conducting reconnaissance and making maps or establishing worthwhile staffs. Despite his engineering experience, his army had no engineer corps to speak of, weak artillery and negligible comm, logistics, and Intel. For four months before Chancellorsville he and his generals sat idle instead of scouting or doing much of anything. Jackson even died, shot by his own men, while on a night time recon, because he had maps and no knowledge of the terrain. Chancellorsville may have demonstrated some brilliant maneuvering but he came out worse overall then the federals; he could afford his casualties far less than they could.

He was not delegative, he was hand cuffed by his own concept of gentlemanly conduct. There was a serious hesitation to hold generals accountable for poor performance, as not to offend their honor. After Gettysburg he wrote "I hope the official reports will protect the reputation of every officer."

At Malvern Hill he gave the responsibility for assessing the effects of confederate artillery and thus signaling the general assault to the brigadier general located on the far right of his army; who could neither observe it nor communicate the order to the rest the army effectively. When Hood was arrested by Evans, Lee did not interfere or rule on what his subordinates were doing. When Antietam started, he asked Hood to apologize to Evans so that he could be released to lead his men. When Hood refused, Lee compromised by having the arrest temporarily suspended.

Fair enough, you're clearly more well-read on the subject than I am, and I'll defer to your expertise (though I still think Lee was pretty good, though certainly a far less strategic thinker than someone like Grant)

You know who never gets enough respect though? George Thomas. He was a Virginian, like Lee, who could have easily fought for the Confederacy. But he stayed with the Union, fought under Grant in the West, and was one of the only commanders in the entire war to destroy an opposing army in the field at Nashville. Dude owned.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:40

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

He'd call all of us idiots, accurately.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:40

UP THE BUM NO BABY: Sep 1, 2011; by Hand Knit

I think Bragg was a cool dude and great general.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:43

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

John Schofield is my beard idol, but makes me glad I still have a full head of hair.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 03:54

Smiling Jack: Dec 2, 2001; I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.

General Thomas is criminally underrated.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:01

Tiny: Oct 26, 2003; My leg hurts....

Apologies for the lateness of this particular reply...

Immanentized posted:

Effort post from hotel bar:

In a word, no.
When I was doing my Penetration Testing job, there was zero standardized training, and the certifications they offer, CEH, CFIE, COMPTIA+ (Except OSCP, more later) are loving horseshit with limited applicability to the wide world of exploits and vulnerability discovery. I was able to make up for my relatively weak network skills by using Kali and a ton of built in utilities, and I was extremely successful in social engineering work- but if you asked me to do this stuff from scratch I'd be lost. That's where the EE guys and OSCP people come in.

For the unaware, the Offensive Security Certified Professional (OSCP) is a hands-on program that culminates in the candidate being effectively locked in a lab over the course of a 2 day period and expected to play "capture the flag" and accomplish set objectives within the time limit. The guys who have this are extremely good at what they do, and compromise an extremely rare skillset within the global technology industry. You don't really "think about getting it". You either have the natural born talent, or you don't. Even then, there is usually a year's worth of studying and prep work involved.

RE: OSCP: That is flattering, but also true. It took me a year of "I'll study this material when i'm bored" followed by 4 month's worth of active lab time where my mindset was "I will dedicate every second of my free time to pwning these boxes in this lab so I can pass on the first try." to pass the test and earn an OSCP designation... If I had a wife, she'd hate me for the amount of time I spent on this.

I feel like I should mention for the GiP crowd that all of the lab fees were billed from Gibraltar, and that my actual physical certification letter / package was mailed to me from a lady in Israel. I'm probably on some sort of list now.

Immanentized, how do you feel about the OSCE and OSWE certs that offsec also offers? OSCP doesn't go nearly deep enough into true greybeard exploit development like I've heard OSCE does...

quote:

The best thing the US has going for it is that the world tech backbone goes through us. Those backdoors aren't going anywhere and we are capable of working up some scary rear end poo poo on short notice when we call our allies in to help. Most other actors operate in a vacuum completely unaware of each other's ability, and mutually distrustful of anyone else, this allows for complex and impactful hits, but no real ability to carry out coordinated moves.

Agreed.

Tiny fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Sep 28, 2017

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:10

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Tiny posted:

Apologies for the lateness of this particular reply...

That is flattering, but also true. It took me a year of "I'll study this material when i'm bored" followed by 4 month's worth of active lab time where my mindset was "I will dedicate every second of my free time to pwning these boxes in this lab so I can pass on the first try." to pass the test and earn an OSCP designation... If I had a wife, she'd hate me for the amount of time I spent on this.

I feel like I should mention for the GiP crowd that all of the lab fees were billed from Gibraltar, and that my actual physical certification letter / package was mailed to me from a lady in Israel. I'm probably on some sort of list now.

Immanentized, how do you feel about the OSCE and OSWE certs that offsec also offers? OSCP doesn't go nearly deep enough into true greybeard exploit development like I've heard OSCE does...

Agreed.

I'm disappointed that OSWE isn't Offensive Security Weaponized Expert

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:19

shyduck: Oct 3, 2003

Hugh Hefner is dead.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:26

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

I'm from new Zealand and I say Sherman owned like gently caress

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:27

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

shyduck posted:

Hugh Hefner is dead.

dammit, I was coming to post this

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/27/hugh-hefner-iconic-founder-of-playboy-has-died-at-age-91.html

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:30

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

shyduck posted:

Hugh Hefner is dead.

He led an insanely disgusting life and most of those bitches were dime store hookers

Rest in piss

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:30

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

milk milk lemonade posted:

He led an insanely disgusting life and most of those bitches were dime store hookers

Rest in piss

Someone's gotta to do it.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:33

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

shyduck posted:

Hugh Hefner is dead.

For all intents and purposes he outlived his empire, too.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:36

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

Larry Flynt is the true print smut hero

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:38

The Pi dude: Oct 19, 2013; Buglord

All pants are to be flown half mast.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:40

Immanentized: Mar 17, 2009

Tiny posted:

Apologies for the lateness of this particular reply...

That is flattering, but also true. It took me a year of "I'll study this material when i'm bored" followed by 4 month's worth of active lab time where my mindset was "I will dedicate every second of my free time to pwning these boxes in this lab so I can pass on the first try." to pass the test and earn an OSCP designation... If I had a wife, she'd hate me for the amount of time I spent on this.

I feel like I should mention for the GiP crowd that all of the lab fees were billed from Gibraltar, and that my actual physical certification letter / package was mailed to me from a lady in Israel. I'm probably on some sort of list now.

Immanentized, how do you feel about the OSCE and OSWE certs that offsec also offers? OSCP doesn't go nearly deep enough into true greybeard exploit development like I've heard OSCE does...

Agreed.

I feel that anything organized and issued by that consortium is leaps and bounds above the competition, and I cannot speak comprehensively to the other two, as I've only had interaction with a few OSCP duders. From what I remember reading the OSCE is a civilian capstone sort of program, and OSWE is only useful if you're in the field to begin with as a professional and corporate boost to previously established street cred. The individuals that succeed in this level of operation and knowledge are the people that have access to a regional-class lab, a home lab, or a really diverse professional and personal network in the field.

I DO appreciate how OffSec doesn't get as hung up on prior experience or clearance as the other issuers. In my experience, I've become pretty jaded about the way certifications are implemented and used to pull the ladder up behind people these days, sort of like an unofficial union barrier. I think SANS is a definite exception in that they walk the walk and talk the talk, but the entry level in terms of cost and pre-established ability is really, really high. Basically, your Joe Blow from NetOps normally won''t be able to get his CISSP, CISA, CEH, CISM, COMPTIA+ and be able to operate effectively in anything beyond intermediate blue team/ 2LoD activities. In my current assurance role, I'm sick of veterans and ex-FBI getting shooed into management and executive spots on bravado and impressive-seeming credentials, but with 0 time behind a console. Honestly, it's probably why the state of cybersecurity is so lovely, as we're putting dudes with organizational aversion to admitting fault or exposure into sensitive roles that require huge amounts of collaboration and bridge-building.

I left the hands on field about 2 years back, but I'm slowly coming back around to it. I'm considering a white-glove service for executives, surgeons, and public accountant firms that provide eye-opening information about just how vulnerable they are based on publicly accessible info, offer training that comes to people, rather than the other way around seems like it might be the way to go..

# ? Sep 28, 2017 04:48

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

CommieGIR posted:

That was a good quote, but you really can't quote that without the rest

He was responding to criticism from the citizens of Atlanta who were (naturally) very upset that he planned to burn the city, and he basically said "You helped pursue this war, you helped supply the armies wrecked and burning in the North, and now that it is turned upon you, you cannot take it? Please."

Where's the letter he wrote to an acquaintance down there when said acquaintance was getting real gung-ho about the war and he was like "WE HAVE TRAINS ALL THE gently caress OVER AND YOU DUMB HICKS DONT EVEN HAVE SHOES"

# ? Sep 28, 2017 06:53

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

I got you, fam.

quote:

You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it � Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth � right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.

Attribution and accuracy aren't 100% proven, IIRC, but don't let that get in the way of dunking on Jefferson Davis & Co.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 07:31

LtCol J. Krusinski: May 7, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Z҉̡̬̼͕̦͘͠A͏̷̷̱̪̟̙̘̰̙͍̫̬̘̘̮̮́L̵̡̢̳̘̖̫͈͈̬̦͕̙̤͚͙̩̪̮͘G̸̡̨̦̘̙̞̦̘̲͈̦͎̖͔͟O̸̲͖͖̲̩͎̪̫͚̕͞ͅͅ

# ? Sep 28, 2017 09:48

Hot Karl Marx: Mar 16, 2009; Politburo regulations about social distancing require to downgrade your Karlmarxing to cold, and sorry about the dnc primaries, please enjoy!

lol your country is so hosed

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/913217537218957312

# ? Sep 28, 2017 10:40

FastestGunAlive: Apr 7, 2010; Dancing palm tree.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Fair enough, you're clearly more well-read on the subject than I am, and I'll defer to your expertise (though I still think Lee was pretty good, though certainly a far less strategic thinker than someone like Grant)

You know who never gets enough respect though? George Thomas. He was a Virginian, like Lee, who could have easily fought for the Confederacy. But he stayed with the Union, fought under Grant in the West, and was one of the only commanders in the entire war to destroy an opposing army in the field at Nashville. Dude owned.

Nah I'm fairly new to studying the war in depth. Some of the poo poo that's gone down the last few months has inspired me to start reading up on it to counter all the lost cause trash. Your arguments are valid and we could go back and forth forever on it.

Totally agree with you on Thomas, that dude is a bad rear end. I had never heard of him before these past few months. Definitely years ahead of anyone else in his ability to lead, equip, train, and organize. I intend to find some books focused on him and learn even more.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 10:55

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 18:00

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

Hot Karl Marx posted:

lol your country is so hosed

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/913217537218957312

The bar is so insanely low now. A loving reality TV personality is in the White House. He used to call reporters and pretend to be a PR manager who didn't exist. What the gently caress

# ? Sep 28, 2017 12:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Current Events September 2017: 6-foot-7 grandfather

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