|
What is going to be your favorite offseason storyline? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| The Big3 Tourney |
|
67 | 22.41% |
| Will Lakers draft Ball |
|
40 | 13.38% |
| Where will the Pauls go |
|
54 | 18.06% |
| Will LeBron jump ship to the Spurs or ?? |
|
41 | 13.71% |
| Will every team in the league just pivot towards tanking |
|
97 | 32.44% |
| Total: | 210 votes | ||
|
Paul Zuvella posted:Im increadibly pro-union, but both a draft and rookie scale contracts are so far from being in the best interest of the workers that it affects that there is no way you can call it ethical. So you think you should absolutely abolish any group that negotiates terms for future employees not yet part of the workforce, but you are pro-union? 
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 13:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 03:26 |
|
|
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/04/sports/pro-basketball-bucks-give-robinson-a-10-year-contract.html?mcubz=1 I remember that Glen Robinson wanted a 10 year 120 million contract. The Bucks were only worth somewhere between 130-180 million back then. Herb Kohl offered Glen his franchise if he would give Herb the guaranteed contract. Glen settled for 68 million and a few years later we had rookie scaled contracts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:02
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Maybe but another way to look at is the players getting almost 50% of the revenue guaranteed which makes it like the most pro labor cba in the country afaict Im not arguing against this? It can be good for current members and bad for rookies at the same time. ChickenMedium posted:I get upset every time a player's union threatens a strike and doesn't use this as their primary threat. The NBA more easily than any other league could absolutely be replaced with a player-owned league. Next lockout we are going to see Curry/Durant/Draymond on a 3v3 team
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:03
|
|
|
Lockback posted:So you think you should absolutely abolish any group that negotiates terms for future employees not yet part of the workforce, but you are pro-union? Troll harder dude, I never posted anything that even slightly suggests the players union should be abolished
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:06
|
|
|
Lockback posted:It's a collective bargain. Labor has not only agreed to it, but continually renews it every few years. There are way better things to attach the "Anti-Labor" tag on than something the actual labor supports. labor supporting a thing doesn't make it pro labor lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:07
|
|
|
My friend is in a honest to God workingman's union, and he was absolutely rammed in the rear end in favor of people with seniority for the first few years he was there. So the NBAPA is normal in this case
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:24
|
|
|
Silver represents the owners, and so far he's been much more benevolent towards the players than Stern ever was. The owners are currently watching the backlash in the NFL where players have decided to generically protest oppression with no specific goal in mind in exchange for a large reported decline in ticket sales. Michael Jordan's famous quote about "Republicans buy shoes" is applicable to tickets here. Numerous NBA teams have had attendance problems in the last several years before adding any political elements to the mix. The optics of millionaire athletes protesting oppression in general is terrible. NBA athletes already have enormous freedom (and support even from the commissioner) to promote social/political issues and causes they care about on social media, via charities, or via financial donations. All of which are already vastly superior at producing results than anything relating to a hypothetical anthem protest. There already exists a rule that defines anthem guidelines. Therefore, NBA athletes should protest during the anthem because...? Is there a single good reason? Assuming you agree with the intentions of the protest and want to see meaningful change in the structural systems that cause oppression, this doesn't help address any of them and the result may lower both revenue and interaction in a way that gives players less compensation, visibility, and power to actually make change. So why?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:32
|
|
|
Libertine posted:The owners are currently watching the backlash in the NFL where players have decided to generically protest oppression with no specific goal in mind in exchange for a large reported decline in ticket sales. Do you have a source on the ticket decline because: http://deadline.com/2017/09/cowboys-knee-monday-night-football-ratings-rise-cardinals-donald-trump-nfl-espn-1202177052/ Monday Night Ratings were higher than expected. Ticket sales in general are slumping, but that was well before last week's demonstration.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:35
|
|
|
ChickenMedium posted:I get upset every time a player's union threatens a strike and doesn't use this as their primary threat. The NBA more easily than any other league could absolutely be replaced with a player-owned league. Because a player-owned league would eventually turn into an owner-owned league or would horribly fall apart because the people running the league don't have the same insane connections that present day owners have. For instance if the Knicks players ran the Knicks, good luck leasing a spot at the Garden considering Dolan owns it. Good luck moving around town for a new location or getting a new one built because Kristaps Porzingis sure as gently caress doesn't know any contractors or politicians in NYC.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:42
|
|
|
Libertine posted:
To who
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:42
|
|
|
Cool Buff Man posted:To who To idiots
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:44
|
|
|
Libertine posted:The owners are currently watching the backlash in the NFL where players have decided to generically protest oppression with no specific goal in mind in exchange for a large reported decline in ticket sales. There is no way in hell declining ticket sales could possibly be blamed on the players kneeling. You're talking a handful of people out of massive stadiums not going because of minor stuff like that. Declining ticket sales are entirely the fault of the price of admission and the snafu in California. Chargers fans are actively boycotting/can't get to the new stadium due to the move and Rams fans are non-existent in LA since their fanbase of the last 20 years is located 3k miles to the east. Also the major problem in the NFL isn't declining gate sales, it's declining viewership on cable. Cord cutters are hitting their future TV contracts and that's got the owners terrified.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:47
|
|
|
Cool Buff Man posted:To who 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:47
|
|
|
Honestly the only problem with kneeling athletes is that somehow it was able to be coopted by the right/rich and now instead of talking about police brutality and racial inequality we're pretending like this is black people protesting America and the troops on one side and on the other it's now about "expressing unity" . Obviously that's not the fault of the protesters but I'm still irritated as hell about it. It's be great if this firestorm had produced a national dialogue about unarmed black men getting shot by cops but instead we got Drew Brees talking about kneeling before the anthem to show team unity when this isn't about that. So, while I support the right of any athlete in any sport to kneel during the anthem in protest of inequality, I know we'll end up nationally arguing about some unrelated bullshit and miss the point. I do think that NBA players would be able to push back better and emphasize what this is really about than the NFL players so maybe if they go ahead and tell Silver to gently caress off it'll work out better but I wouldn't put money on it. I thought Shannon Sharpe (!) had a great take on it https://twitter.com/undisputed/status/912327330579677184 Also here's the first nice thing I've ever said about Skip Bayless: good job not interrupting him and giving Shannon eight minutes of uninterrupted space to speak on the issue. zoux fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Sep 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:50
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:To idiots Seems about right
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:53
|
|
|
Libertine posted:The optics of millionaire athletes protesting oppression in general is terrible. The optics of billionaires screwing communities/threatening to move their teams if the taxpayers don't pay for their new stadiums are much worse. (Among other horrible things billionaires do) However, they usually own all the media so they can put better spin on it. It's sad education in this country isn't better and more people don't recognize who their real enemies are. zoux posted:Honestly the only problem with kneeling athletes is that somehow it was able to be coopted by the right/rich and now instead of talking about police brutality and racial inequality we're pretending like this is black people protesting America and the troops on one side and on the other it's now about "expressing unity" . Obviously that's not the fault of the protesters but I'm still irritated as hell about it. It's be great if this firestorm had produced a national dialogue about unarmed black men getting shot by cops but instead we got Drew Brees talking about kneeling before the anthem to show team unity when this isn't about that. So, while I support the right of any athlete in any sport to kneel during the anthem in protest of inequality, I know we'll end up nationally arguing about some unrelated bullshit and miss the point. I do think that NBA players would be able to push back better and emphasize what this is really about than the NFL players so maybe if they go ahead and tell Silver to gently caress off it'll work out better but I wouldn't put money on it. This is a great post. The main reason it was coopted is media, the secondary reason is mass amounts of racism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
zoux posted:It's be great if this firestorm had produced a national dialogue about unarmed black men getting shot by cops but instead we got Drew Brees talking about kneeling before the anthem to show team unity when this isn't about that. American Culture naturally co-opts all subversive protest into it's capitalist cycle. That's one of the defining features of it's resiliency. Anything that would challenge the economic status quo get taken apart, re-branded, have their message obfuscated, and then are re-purposed as some generic meaningless objective that everyone can get behind. The current protests are already very deep into that cycle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:56
|
|
|
Quick Spacebump, fake an illness and head on down http://twitter.com/coopmavs/status/913765707527180288
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:08
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Do you have a source on the ticket decline because: r/the donald was bragging about how their boycott is working. It was a ticket reseller saying ticket sales were down 17% this week, but apparently week 3 experiences a large drop normally (10% last year). I don't think it's an actual thing, at least not yet. Most of the consternation is russian bot signal amplification.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:18
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/thekidet/status/913620134136209408
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:18
|
|
|
Evan Turner is the funniest person in the NBA
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:23
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:The optics of billionaires screwing communities/threatening to move their teams if the taxpayers don't pay for their new stadiums are much worse. (Among other horrible things billionaires do) However, they usually own all the media so they can put better spin on it. It's sad education in this country isn't better and more people don't recognize who their real enemies are. No it's not. You even said it yourself. The Optics of the Billionaires is nowhere near as bad as the optics of the players protesting. For numerous reasons. Racism, the belief that Billionaires have all earned their money, how billionaires have successfully sold people that arena's actually make up the money that the tax payers spend on them with #jobs. It goes on and own I don't know what Libertine's politics are, so ignoring that, but he is absolutely correct that players protesting is to a majority of people is going to look way worse than owners bitching about stadium deals. And in the NBA the players will be able to say whatever the hell they want(MLB too, but MLB has a waaaaay different "dynamic" in the locker room, than the NBA does). Turns out Guaranteed contracts are a hell of a thing. Kneeing in the NBA doesn't matter, because the players are capable of saying whatever the hell they want with little fear or repercussion, besides dumb fans. Knowing that because the top guys in the sport(Lebron, Steph, Wade, Pop, Kerr) have talked they are shielded from repercussions. Because whooo boy would it be a bad look for their future prospects of landing a star in FA or keeping a star if a team is found out to be silencing their players in some way. The NBA players nowadays talk all the time and when it comes to non in sport poo poo have each others backs. Bad reputations for teams spread quickly. Dexo fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Sep 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
Libertine posted:American Culture naturally co-opts all subversive protest into it's capitalist cycle. That's one of the defining features of it's resiliency. Anything that would challenge the economic status quo get taken apart, re-branded, have their message obfuscated, and then are re-purposed as some generic meaningless objective that everyone can get behind. The current protests are already very deep into that cycle. I was honestly a bit surprised by how outraged people were by that Kardashian Pepsi commercial. It was like people had never seen a commercial before. Coopting image and emotion is like, the whole idea? Is this the first time the world notices that commercials are almost always intended to be psychologically manipulative, which kinda precludes a properly functioning conscience behind their creation? The kneeling/anthem stuff is a nationwide argument over the interpretation of cultural symbols, with no clear connections to any political positions just a bunch of idiotic murky side-taking. It's insanely stupid and we are collectively stupid and probably deserving of death. When is basketball back
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:38
|
|
|
EvanTH posted:When is basketball back Eight Teen Days
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
Cool Buff Man posted:Eight Teen Days omg it's actually tomorrow Nuggets v. Warriors preseason ahhh the nightmare is ending with a Which Team is Which reverse jersey exhibition, the league's best player vs. the league's best team let's goooo
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:56
|
|
|
zoux posted:Honestly the only problem with kneeling athletes is that somehow it was able to be coopted by the right/rich and now instead of talking about police brutality and racial inequality we're pretending like this is black people protesting America and the troops on one side and on the other it's now about "expressing unity" . Obviously that's not the fault of the protesters but I'm still irritated as hell about it. It's be great if this firestorm had produced a national dialogue about unarmed black men getting shot by cops but instead we got Drew Brees talking about kneeling before the anthem to show team unity when this isn't about that. So, while I support the right of any athlete in any sport to kneel during the anthem in protest of inequality, I know we'll end up nationally arguing about some unrelated bullshit and miss the point. I do think that NBA players would be able to push back better and emphasize what this is really about than the NFL players so maybe if they go ahead and tell Silver to gently caress off it'll work out better but I wouldn't put money on it. Shannon Sharpe has been good on this topic. It is the second thing he is good at from his talking head position, the first being his ability to holler "SKEEEEEEYUP" in increasingly preposterous cadences and make me laugh really hard while staring at my phone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:57
|
|
|
NickRoweFillea posted:Shannon Sharpe has been good on this topic. It is the second thing he is good at from his talking head position, the first being his ability to holler "SKEEEEEEYUP" in increasingly preposterous cadences and make me laugh really hard while staring at my phone. I remember when he was terrible starting out but if this is indicative of his abilities now he's immeasurably improved as a broadcaster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:58
|
|
|
EvanTH posted:I was honestly a bit surprised by how outraged people were by that Kardashian Pepsi commercial. It was like people had never seen a commercial before. Coopting image and emotion is like, the whole idea? Is this the first time the world notices that commercials are almost always intended to be psychologically manipulative, which kinda precludes a properly functioning conscience behind their creation? Because it's loving trash? People tend to not take it well when they take something that people are literally dying over. People who are fighting for their rights, and puts a loving Kardashian in it and make it seem like a loving Pepsi is going to solve racism and police brutality. And the Kneeling has a clear connection to someone not standing for the national anthem to personally protest police brutality, and racial inequality. Kaep was quite clear what his motives were.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:02
|
|
|
it's impossible to "earn" a billion dollars and if you are that rich you are successfully cheating a broken, exploitative system. athletes are some of the only extremely wealthy people who actually generate more value than they take back, but then they have to sign their souls over to the shoe companies who still love to pay pregnant malaysian women $2 a week to inhale glue fumes, so, I um, I dunno, I guess before anyone listens to my political opinions they should bear in mind I'm something of an unapologetic Fascist as I've always been 100% in support of the Mutant Registration Act. If teenagers are going to be shooting heat beams from their eyes we need to have a record of who they are and what they can do, no?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/KGArea21/status/913438938127364096
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
that video made me think of the time Lebron got dunked on and Nike tried to delete the video. And now I'm thinking about how I've known who Lebron James is for a majority of my life. What a guy
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:08
|
|
|
EvanTH posted:it's impossible to "earn" a billion dollars and if you are that rich you are successfully cheating a broken, exploitative system. It makes more sense to me for an athlete to get paid millions than a hedge fund manager. People are like "they get paid millions to play a game" like they roll out of bed, gently caress around on X-box for 8 hours and then go to the arena and play a game. While these guys are active, they spend so many hours a week training, working out, controlling what they eat and drink and that's in addition to managing all the business and finance poo poo that comes with being a millionaire. How many hours a week do you think an NBA player spends on poo poo to maintain and improve their skills and craft? 90+? They work hard and are under insane pressure. So if we say that someone's salary should be commensurate with the actual amount of sweat and stress someone puts out, who does more than pro athletes?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:11
|
|
|
Also the NBA player often has rules that specifically target athletes when it comes to their taxes, while hedge fund managers and other rich motherfuckers have countless rules designed to make sure they pay minimal taxes, or allows them to stash their wealth in ways to avoid taxes completely.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
zoux posted:It makes more sense to me for an athlete to get paid millions than a hedge fund manager. People are like "they get paid millions to play a game" like they roll out of bed, gently caress around on X-box for 8 hours and then go to the arena and play a game. While these guys are active, they spend so many hours a week training, working out, controlling what they eat and drink and that's in addition to managing all the business and finance poo poo that comes with being a millionaire. How many hours a week do you think an NBA player spends on poo poo to maintain and improve their skills and craft? 90+? They work hard and are under insane pressure. So if we say that someone's salary should be commensurate with the actual amount of sweat and stress someone puts out, who does more than pro athletes? its also the same people who jerk off about the free market despite the very obvious provable fact that these guys have some of the most unique skillsets in the entire world, if they were actually paid fairly they would get so much more money. had a libertarian dumbass try to let me know that, actually, professional athletes salaries are Inflated and not artificially capped despite.....you know....the salary cap in 2/3 major american sports. these people will say and think anything as long as they get to be racist
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
Libertine posted:Silver represents the owners, and so far he's been much more benevolent towards the players than Stern ever was. Source your quotes
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:39
|
|
|
zoux posted:It makes more sense to me for an athlete to get paid millions than a hedge fund manager. People are like "they get paid millions to play a game" like they roll out of bed, gently caress around on X-box for 8 hours and then go to the arena and play a game. While these guys are active, they spend so many hours a week training, working out, controlling what they eat and drink and that's in addition to managing all the business and finance poo poo that comes with being a millionaire. How many hours a week do you think an NBA player spends on poo poo to maintain and improve their skills and craft? 90+? They work hard and are under insane pressure. So if we say that someone's salary should be commensurate with the actual amount of sweat and stress someone puts out, who does more than pro athletes? Man these days you have to train practically from birth to be a pro athelete, even a bad one, while those hedge fund guys have an iron clad, bulletproof pipeline from birth to ivy league to MBA to banker with almost zero work on their part. A billionaire could put a potato through Harvard if they called it called it Skip Jr.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
lmfao  i wish ET was not really bad at basketball 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
Noctone posted:Source your quotes I do like how his argument is they shouldn't protest because it will hurt their ability to protest. Like how does that work.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/913804096938893314 Hawks going hard on the tank
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 03:26 |
|
|
It was only like 3 seasons ago we thought the Hawks were set up well for the foreseeable future Never give a coach GM powers
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:40
|
|
