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Third World Reggin posted:armies with siege weapons own when you manually do the battle It's more for the fact that they spawn miles away from my armies and wipe out a whole province in three turns.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:26
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ethanol posted:How do you counter wizards if you have any heroes with duelist (assassin, etc) have them gank them meanwhile stretch your infantry blocks out more than you usually would so that aoe poo poo doesn't murder the unit as quickly Pendent posted:I've actually been really surprised at how effective Skaven are at killing Dwarfs between the armor debuff and (more importantly) their amazing artillery. The warp lightning guns in particular are absolutely brutal. there's a reason dwarves hate skaven to the point that (in lore terms) they basically have a permanent "yeah we're never gonna strike this out" grudge against them
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Sep 29, 2017 18:29
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There are some top tier flavor events in this one 
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Sep 29, 2017 18:43
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Anyone else getting really long loads times between starting battles and ending them? I didn't install this on my SSD because I forgot but god drat I didn't think it would be this bad. Also ritual 4 on hard summons literally 8 stacks right next to your city so be prepared for that cool feature.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:43
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BadLlama posted:Anyone else getting really long loads times between starting battles and ending them? I didn't install this on my SSD because I forgot but god drat I didn't think it would be this bad. I have it on SSD and I find load times to be negligible. For whatever reason, I think this one and its predecessor benefit a lot from a SSD.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:53
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Why is there a bunch of stuff to get in the water when i can lose my whole army to a close defeat because everything is autoresolved? Not fun in any way at all, good job
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Sep 29, 2017 19:02
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So, Kroq Gar is fun. Saurus are pretty cool, and the Skinks are suprisingly useful (for some reason, my Skinks cohorts are really good against Crypt horrors and similiar units). Skink priests are boss. Is there any other hero mage that gets to ride a monstrous mount? I mean, there is no such thing as too many Dinosaurs. I need to find out if a Skink Chief can use his stealth skills (he gets vanguard deployment and hide anywhere eventually) while riding an ancient stegadon, because this would be totally hilarious. Fun fact: One you research the "less upkeep for Saurus" techs, and get Kroq Gar all the upkeep reduction techs, his Saurus units have an upkeep of like, 20 gold.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:02
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Load times don't seem to be longer than warhams 1. Though I've gotten used to them being long from that game, don't have an SSD. I mostly just read a book or something while playing. I'm actually kind of enjoying the food mechanic for skaven. Makes things pretty hectic as you have to raid-pillage and loot-steal in all directions to stave of hunger-starvation. I've got 3 armies running around as Queek at the moment, and am kind of low on food at the moment because of the upkeep from the armies and the fact that I pumped food into Dawn's light to get it to level 3 so I could start building weapon teams as soon as possible.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:03
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Eimi posted:It's more for the fact that they spawn miles away from my armies and wipe out a whole province in three turns. Party In My Diapee posted:Why is there a bunch of stuff to get in the water when i can lose my whole army to a close defeat because everything is autoresolved? Not fun in any way at all, good job Check it out with a single leader.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:07
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Game is good, and runs about as well as the first for me. I played it a lot yesterday as wizard toad on normal. I wound up slowly making my way north to burn down Naggarond. I wiped out Malekith and set up marches in the marginally inhabitable mountains, but now I've realized I'm not doing it right. When I get back to the game I'm just going to hop my scaly boys into boats and get right to the real goal. Perhaps it's the normal difficulty, but I haven't had any problems staying ahead on rituals and surviving the incursions. Also the rite that spawns a stack of feral dinosaurs is hilarious. Sorry Teclis but you were sitting your rear end right by my plaque city, and it was time to pay the price. On thing I wish was better was the dang city battles. Before release I played a lot of Rome II, and fighting in those actual settlements and cities was so much cooler, even if I hated the Gauls'/Celts' maps. edit: Mightypeon posted:I need to find out if a Skink Chief can use his stealth skills (he gets vanguard deployment and hide anywhere eventually) while riding an ancient stegadon, because this would be totally hilarious. Unfortunately the Beast path and the Stealth path exclude each other. I found this out amongst great weeping and gnashing of teeth. There's probably no reason a mod won't eventually be able to 'fix' that though. thatdarnedbob fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 19:09
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How are poison wind gloabiers? They just sit there and chuck tennis balls at enemies, and it doesn't seem like they are as spectacular as I'd hoped (I was hoping they'd be like the dwarf satchel charges but with poison). Warlock engineers are really cool, since they are like a dwarf engineer and a wizard rolled into one. How do you guys usually build your Skaven cities? I always like focusing on growth to get them to tier 5 ASAP but there's so many drat building you need to progress in the tech tree it's a little confusing to decide what I should focus with early on. Anything that generates food early on is good, and it seems like it is better to hoard food to get the bonuses and use the quick settlement skills mid to late game since early game there's fewer threats. Is there any artillery in any of the new armies that can damage walls?
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Sep 29, 2017 19:11
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Mightypeon posted:I need to find out if a Skink Chief can use his stealth skills (he gets vanguard deployment and hide anywhere eventually) while riding an ancient stegadon, because this would be totally hilarious. thatdarnedbob posted:Unfortunately the Beast path and the Stealth path exclude each other. I found this out amongst great weeping and gnashing of teeth. There's probably no reason a mod won't eventually be able to 'fix' that though.  Stealthadon, you were too good for this world.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:14
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Panfilo posted:How are poison wind gloabiers? They just sit there and chuck tennis balls at enemies, and it doesn't seem like they are as spectacular as I'd hoped (I was hoping they'd be like the dwarf satchel charges but with poison). They devastate large units
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Sep 29, 2017 19:30
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I like the new armies but the new ritual victory stuff is straight aids. Dumping a bunch of stacks randomly across your empire and then having them raze everything around them while avoiding the cities you are supposed to be defending is an extremely tedious way to do things. You either put defensive walls around everything or save scum so you can have your troops ready for their spawn locations. It seems like things were balanced for lower difficulties where you actually have allies, where they would spawn there and give you an opportunity to intercept them but playing at vh the diplo malus means that's out and conquering everything is the name of the game. It seems like a simple fix would be to force the spawn armies to ignore other settlements but maybe this is what they want. I don't like it as is though.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:35
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Are there any online readable resources yet (since the Encyclopedia's not up and I'm an impatient goob stuck at work) that go through the units in TWII?
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Sep 29, 2017 19:36
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Eimi posted:So my impressions from last night mostly revolve around the ritual mechanics being nothing but unfun bullshit. It seems you are heavily heavily punished for even taking your 'home' territory, in this case Ulthuan. The map is too big or your movement speed is too slow. The ritual armies spawn with siege weapons so all those defenses you put in place are meaningless. I know people have managed to win with Tyrion, so I'm kind of wondering what was your strategy? Did you just stick to Lothern/Caledor/the one with Shrine of Asuryan? What were your army comps? Did you just stick with spearmen/archers to get enough armies to cover all your territory? I'm really scrambling to come up with a strategy that lets you do the fun thing of unifying your starting position while also competing with the stupid rituals. Do you just ignore the rituals and just go wipe out the other factions? Finished a High Elf campaign on very hard this morning. Cavalry is basically useless unless you're chasing down war machines (stuff doesn't break on the higher difficulties, so rear charges aren't as effective as they should be). Best starting armies are the cheapest spearmen/archers, and three or so bolt throwers. Ditch the phoenix, it's poo poo and not worth the upkeep. I'd focus on maxing out his blue line (making sure to grab both the upkeep reduction and replenishment). It's worth sending out a hero to find factions to trade with. Outer rings aren't worth taking directly until you have significant forces, although the ritual site to the south west may be an exception if you want to stay ahead of the AI. They're all fairly vulnerable to raiding by other factions and it's better to have trade agreements with neighbours initially anyway. I ended up doing a sort of pendulum move, by taking Tyrion's army and capturing the region with the White Tower. They then headed back clockwise, while recruiting a second cheap army to more easily crush the remaining cities. Headed out via the north gate to take the less than ideal terrain, and the second ritual site. I tried taking and holding Albion, but it's not worth it, and I ended up just letting it die to rebellions. Still worth taking out Skaeling, but I'd just head straight for Naggaroth after razing the area if I was doing it again. Did the rituals to win, but won't bother again. It's easy to disrupt enemy rituals by sending over a couple of armies, and you may as well just conquer them while you're there anyway. I won't spoil the ritual mechanics, but I'll say they're not especially interesting and feel like a cheap way to hinder the player. There is no way to really prepare for what happens, unless you own significant territory outside your starting continent and can afford to have multiple armies sitting at home doing nothing (even then there is probably no guarantee of holding onto all your territory). For future campaigns I'm just going to play for domination, and murder anyone trying to complete the ritual instead. Beer Hall Putz fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 19:41
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Panfilo posted:How are poison wind gloabiers? They just sit there and chuck tennis balls at enemies, and it doesn't seem like they are as spectacular as I'd hoped (I was hoping they'd be like the dwarf satchel charges but with poison). You're looking for Death Globe Bombardiers, they'll gently caress up armored melee mobs bad because they have splash damage, unlike Poison Wind Globadiers. Unfortunately they're a late game unit. Poison Wind Globadiers are for loving up large units, strangely enough. They seem to be fairly good at it according to some custom battle testing; routed a Feral Bastiladon at half health with the appropriate sacrificial unit of Clanrats losing 50 models from 160. However, they chuck their bombs very slowly, though skill point investments and tech upgrades may lessen the sting. I've been trying out some early game Skaven units in custom battle to see which can rout a Saurus unit most effectively they're tanked by a Clanrat unit. Tried out Gutter Runner Slingers, Poison Wind Globadiers, and Rat Ogres specifically since you can spend food on your first captured settlement to get it to tier 3 immediately without going into the negatives. Strangely enough, the Clanrats would always hold successfully despite losing roughly 50 models with every engagement, so maybe I'm being a bit pessimistic about Queek's chances against the Saurus swarm. Slingers did well despite doing piss-poor damage and getting the least kills before the rout; combined with their speed and utility, they're probably a shoe-in anyway since you'll want some speedy skirmishers to round out your army composition. Also, as a bonus, they slow down enemy units near them so you can use them to chase routers down in melee. Globadiers got a good amount of kills since despite being anti-large, they still do armour-piercing damage. Combined with their ability to counter large units and the Weapon Bunker having no upgrades, they might be the most "optimal" pick since their recruitment building can fit in the last settlement slot easily. Rat Ogres did the most damage and kills and could actually chase down routers, and could also gently caress up large units fairly well. I'm not sure if they're cost-effective though, and any anti-large unit will definitely gently caress them up bad. Nothing conclusive since these are just custom battle tests and I've barely considered the campaign costs, but it seems like Rat Ogres might be your best bet if you're willing to gamble with enemy anti-large. Just don't forget to screen them with rats. If you're doing that, you may also be able to forgo the Eshin Clan building line in your main settlement since Rat Ogres can chase down archers, and instead use the slot for the income boost line so you can afford another army ASAP. Otherwise, you can go Runners + Globadiers for a heavy ranged flanking setup with Stormvermin protection. This could be very good if you luck into a free Warlock Engineer event since those dudes give fantastic bonuses to ranged units. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 19:41
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My high elf treasure hunting team found themselves surrounded by nasty rat people. Instead of paying ransom they told the rats that they, too, serve the horned rat. The poor rats got really confused so they just gave my guys 300 fragment things and ran away. 
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Sep 29, 2017 19:53
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I would say an easy fix for the ritual would be a change to the spawned chaos armies AI. Namely that they will always focus ritual settlements and ignore the rest. As that seems to be the big problem everyone is having.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:I would say an easy fix for the ritual would be a change to the spawned chaos armies AI. Namely that they will always focus ritual settlements and ignore the rest. As that seems to be the big problem everyone is having. Or maybe they should have made it more like the old crusade/jihad bonuses, a huge recruitment/reduced upkeep drive instead of randomly spawning whole armies everywhere that are under the dumb AI's control. sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 20:01
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dtkozl posted:You either put defensive walls around everything This is standard procedure with or without the ritual mechanic.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:14
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God drat Skaven is so much fun. Running with 1 high tier unit army with a pure Clanrat backup army is so satisfying, just filling the field with endless amount of rats overwhelming the enemy army until it can't even run away while my (pretty good) computer groans down to 14fps while mewling "please... no more... rats..." if i zoom in on the action just for that Total War: Medieval 2 nostalgia feel. They are a bit weak in the overworld portion of the game tho, never enough food or money. Edit: One thing that really annoys me with the warhammer total wars tho is how hard it is to kill shattered units. if i am able to catch them they should loving fall before me, not be better at withstanding damage than when they were in high morale Dongattack fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 20:16
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MonsterEnvy posted:I would say an easy fix for the ritual would be a change to the spawned chaos armies AI. Namely that they will always focus ritual settlements and ignore the rest. As that seems to be the big problem everyone is having. Getting them to focus ritual sites would mean they suffer the same fate as the AI intervention armies. Once you realise the ritual is more of a story mode than a real win condition it's fine. It's basically like playing the first Warhammer game, except you have to send a few Empire armies into the badlands to stop Grimgor sneaking a victory. If they just make it a bit easier for the AI to complete the final ritual, then the campaign would be really great.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:23
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BadLlama posted:This is standard procedure with or without the ritual mechanic. Not really once you figure out the game. Having guys just spawn randomly throughout the empire is extremely annoying.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:24
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dtkozl posted:Not really once you figure out the game. Having guys just spawn randomly throughout the empire is extremely annoying. I'll take them randomly spawning around my empire and destroying minor cities then having 8 stacks dumped right ontop of my max tiered provincial capital.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:27
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So am I right that it's basically worthwhile to have a Lord on the water at all times sucking up treasure like a vacuum? Do they even need troop support for that?
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Sep 29, 2017 20:36
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Captain Oblivious posted:So am I right that it's basically worthwhile to have a Lord on the water at all times sucking up treasure like a vacuum? Do they even need troop support for that? Yes. No. That lord saved the entire campaign for me, preventing me from going into the red when i needed forces to defend my final ritual, but also take out the high elves final ritual.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:38
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Upkeep on new armies has been increased to an absurd level in this game, and those armies generally need to be doing something useful. You can go for ships, but it's basically gambling on the treasure negating the absurd upkeep penalty. They seem more of a thing to grab while on the way to somewhere else.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:40
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every turn i become more convinced the elves were right in the war of the beard. ive never attacked these drat dwarves but every few turns 6 more stacks of them show up to be assholes
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Sep 29, 2017 20:44
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https://gfycat.com/AgitatedEducatedAfricanrockpython The sync kill animations are amazing.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:49
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Have all the armies gotten a better array of income settlements or is it just Skaven? Because I don't recall a time in TW1 (in my admittedly limited play of it) where I was so constantly in the green with cash as I am 60 turns into my Skaven game. I'm constantly sitting on two lords with near-full stacks (of granted lots of garbage but a few elite units) and still a good 3k or so of income every round in the early game whereas my last couple of Norsca and Vampire Counts campaigns saw me basically panhandling to get a second lord up and running.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:56
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Gonkish posted:https://gfycat.com/AgitatedEducatedAfricanrockpython what are the little grey rings around the soldiers meant to represent
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Sep 29, 2017 20:58
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Well I figure I'll put a few words down on Lizardmen since that's what I've been playing and I'm hearing a lot of people complaining about trying to bust them in campaign. I figure it gives me a venue to gush about them here as well and go over some of their strengths and weaknesses. For starters lets take a look at their strengths and weaknesses: -I'll go ahead and say it: The best t1/t2 heavy infantry in the game. Sauruses are gold for gold, one of the killing-est units in either the first or the second game. They have less armor than Dwarf Warriors or Chaos Warriors, but they have significantly higher damage output compared to either and a not-insignificant chunk of that is armor piercing despite them not being dedicated AP. -Some of the most effective caster heroes in the game, not necessarily due to access to a variety of magic (on the flip side actually, Lizardmen casting is surprisingly limited in scope, down to beasts, celestial, and the hodgepodge of light/high/celestial that comes on Slaan lords) but because your skink priests can eventually ride a stegodon artillery piece. When you run out of magic, blast them with bolts of poison artillery. When you run out of artillery, just say gently caress it and stomp through their line. because you have 120 armor and 6000 hp and give precisely 0 fucks. -Saurus heroes and lords riding carnosaurs are second only to Norscan lords riding mammoths on the scale of "incredibly difficult poo poo for a general use mixed army to deal with". A Saurus lord and hero both on Carnosaurs and a skink priest and chief both riding stegodons can basically solo a lot of low tier NPC armies by themselves. As far as the negatives go: -Your poo poo is super slow with exception to skinks and terradons. Sauruses are like mid-high 20s in speed, cold ones are as slow or maybe slower than the heaviest empire/bret cav despite being lower armored. -You don't have really good ranged options. Skink skirmishers have 70-80 range but on the bright side do spit poison darts and can do so fairly quickly. -You don't really have much unit roster that lives in t4 or t5. Most of that is variations of the tier 3 dinos that have been in your army for a while, so the neat tricks you get toward the endgame aren't near as neat as you would get with say, empire steam tanks or Demigryphs or elfy dragons. -Frenzy is by it's very nature hard to control, and can make repositioning between waves of enemies hard to do. It also can lead to your frenzied poo poo chasing routing units all over creation, leaving it out of position to get sacked by enemy cav. With all that being said. Playing the Lizardmen campaign the most consistently threatening things to me have been dedicated mobility ranged units, especially so if they come with armor piercing. Shades and Marauder Axe Horsemen and the like really gently caress up my day in ways that I don't like to talk about. Lizardmen don't have the capacity to fire back against large ranged firing lines and any attempt to outshoot archers with skinks is going to end in sadness. When building your armies in the campaign, roll with a core of around 8-10 sauruses. They provide the meat of your army, and in a straight up slapfight between any other races t1/2 units, they will win pretty much every time. Keep a mix of regular saurus warriors and spears in a ratio fitting for the mount of monsters and cav you'll be fighting, normally I go with a unit or two less of spears since they don't chew up infantry quite as well. If you're playing as Kroq Gar, you literally don't need to worry about having any skink recruitment buildings for a while: Sauruses are cheaper to upkeep than skinks for him. When you start hitting tier 3 settlements, it's useful to get a skink recruitment building up for Skink Chiefs, and you'll also want skink recruitment for secondary lords too since Sauruses will be quite a bit more expensive for other lords to upkeep. Once you do get your core of saurus warriors, you're going to want to look at units to support them and plug the gaps in their weaknesses. You will still eventually want to get your skink buildings up and running though since it is a t1-3. They make good cheap shock troops for the non-Krok-Gar lords and despite their poo poo performance vs other race's archers they still have a use. Skirmishers and Chamelion skinks have a 360 degree firing radius and skaven level speed and poison, making them passable route chasers, good flankers, and ticking poison on an enemy is a good way to turn a near even saurus scrum into one that significantly benefits you. Skink chiefs also own. They have the same 360 degree firing cone, but come with 100 ammo and I've yet to see one really run out of ammo even in knock down drag out quest battles like the one Krok Gar gets. When you hit t3 on your settlements you can start picking up Terradons and Cold ones. Quite honestly I like terradons better than cold ones. They cover the speed weakness of the core of your army better and you can basically treat them like you do Wood Elf Eagle Riders. You can keep them on the edge of a battle throwing rocks into a flank, you can use their mobility to go after pesky archers or artillery that's giving you problems, or you can fly them into flanking melee position on your saurus scrum for leadership penalties. They don't do any one thing better than a specialist unit (they will get shot out of the air by even modest resistance, they won't be able to kill infantry like a dedicated cav unit, ect) but they are a jack of all trades that are tactically flexible. They are also your source of fire damage for combatting regen, so you'll need it when it comes time to slay hydras or go expedition into vampire lands up in Khremi. Once you get the dinosaur buildings in t3, that's when the funhaver units start coming out. Stegadons own own own. They basically go where they please and while they aren't cavalry fast they can run down pretty much any footslogger infantry. They are good linebreakers and are incredibly hard to pin down because they move around a lot during their attack animations. Even if they get surrounded by spearmen, one or two thrashes and they will have shoved enough elves/rats away that they can just meander away from that scrum and go sack a wizard or archer unit. I'm going to be one to admit, I don't really love the Ancient Stegodon with the shorter ranged arty. It's basically a blowpipe machine gun burst that's really entertaining to watch, but is incredibly short ranged and generally not as effective as just charging him in to bust heads. The bastilodon is simply OK, it's basically the K-Mart stegodon, not as killy but cheaper. I unfortunately haven't had enough time to play with the revivification crystal or the other flavor of 'magic poo poo strapped to the back of this dino' but it largely seems fine. The other thing to keep in mind is that while Sauruses are kings of the t1/t2 romp, dedicated armored and armor piercing troops will completely slaughter you. Swordmasters and White Lions are both especially good at slaying sauruses I've learned. Chaos great weapons will body you pretty good too. Stormvermin is a pretty even matchup because even through they are armored and armor piercing, they still have the slower halberd attack and it's kind of low-ish damage on a unit with not-especially-great leadership. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 21:02
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HannibalBarca posted:what are the little grey rings around the soldiers meant to represent graphical indication they're under the effects of Fear
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Sep 29, 2017 21:14
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Ze Pollack posted:graphical indication they're under the effects of Fear It's the Musk of Fear
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Sep 29, 2017 21:22
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Oh also happy to report repeater crossbows are everything I ever wanted. Blocking out the sky with a rain of bolts.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:33
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My secondary saurus-only-because-I-didn't-have-skink-building-yet army with only 10 units got ambushed by a huge Skaven army and somehow came through with only 33 casualties. Sauruses rock.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:41
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i love the high elves. I went in planning to be all about skaven and then started a game as teclis. gently caress he owns
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Sep 29, 2017 21:42
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Helion posted:The Dark Elves are, as a civilization, legitimately the most horrible people in the world. Chaos does what it does because it is driven to act that way by the force of mortal emotions, but the Dark Elves do what they do for amusement. Well, they also do it for pragmatic purposes- their empire runs on slavery. And bloody sacrifices to Khaine. But in general they just really get off on doing horrible things. I've been reading the Malus Darkblade books, and it's just plain silly how edgy the dark elves are. Every other scene has someone getting assassinated. Torture is the leisure activity of choice, to the point where the reason the Dark Elven economy is built around slaves is because Jimbo Bloodslicer has to bathe in slave blood every day or he gets cranky. Being infested by Slaanesh cultists is a net good for the Dark Elves because if they didn't gently caress like rabbits they'd have gone extinct ages ago. Oh, and naturally they loooove incest too.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:45
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The quest battle for Kroq-Gar's spear was incredibly touch and go. I basically threw everyone who wasn't rampaging at the target lord and had my skink wizard lizard spam thunder on her.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:50
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