|
joepinetree posted:Most STEM fields are just as bad in terms of employment as everything else. When people talk about all the jobs and pay for STEM, they really only mean the TE part (plus medicine). Computer related stuff and engineering still pretty well in comparison to other stuff. But the average person with a degree in biology or architecture or whatever will not be doing that differently from your average History major (for most science majors who don't go on to become MDs or PhDs the most common employer is the same as for humanities: public school systems). And far worse than your average accounting major. This isn't true. Yes, the starting wages for a person with a BS in biology or physics is not really much different than many degrees in social sciences, arts, and humanities. But job market is much better and the unemployment rate is far lower: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_sbc.pdf
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 09:56 |
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Honestly, since the minority leader represents how the party elite feel I'm not sure you can do better than Pelosi until said elite are replaced. Otherwise at best you'll have a leftist politician supporting stupid poo poo through clenched teeth.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
twodot posted:I'm willing to accept an argument of "The Democrats and their major supporters are just super in favor of torture, so if you want politicians to obstruct Republicans, you need to accept pro-torture Democrats". I just wish people wouldn't call those politicians "mostly positive" instead of "plainly terrible, but better than the Republican alternative". When did Pelosi come out in favor of torture anyway?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:26
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:When did Pelosi come out in favor of torture anyway?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
I wouldn't think of the word "malthusian" and take it to mean, "well, looks like we're gonna have to start killing people" instead of, "that's an interesting thought, we should implement policies and ideas so that we can (easily) avoid that fate." Reminds me of how people misuse "meritocracy" to mean, "Clearly we operate a meritocracy because I am CEO!~" instead of, "what do we need to do to make sure the best people for the job get to where they need to be?".
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:52
|
|
|
Morbus posted:This isn't true. Yes, the starting wages for a person with a BS in biology or physics is not really much different than many degrees in social sciences, arts, and humanities. But job market is much better and the unemployment rate is far lower: Those fresh grads hurt economy because they aren't buying houses too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:54
|
|
|
Remember kids, knowledge is only useful if it makes you lots of money.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 02:55
|
|
|
Star Man posted:Remember kids, knowledge is only useful if it makes you lots of money. The stemlord douche creed. Who cares how much you hate it! The money's worth being miserable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:03
|
|
|
A man brought a Soviet Flag to a Confederate protest in Shreveport, LA. It's funnier than you think. http://www.shreveporttimes.com/videos/news/2017/09/30/why-soviet-union-flag-confederate-rally/106163228/
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:03
|
|
|
Star Man posted:Remember kids, knowledge is only useful if it makes you lots of money. This is kind of legitimately the world we live in, though. A lot of times the choice is being miserable at your job (and because of your job) or being miserable and stressed all the time because of financial issues.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ehh, sortof.  Accounting also works to get you into the middle class, but it has truly garbage hours. It's similar to lawyering in that you are basically doing professional business services but is somehow less intellectually stimulating.Source: self
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
Inescapable Duck posted:Then the solution you want is to reduce the barriers of entry to politics. Something I wager both major parties will vehemently oppose, perhaps especially the Democrats, thanks to entrenched nepotism and deeply classist culture. Can you elaborate on this? Because in my experience there's two types of roles in politics - basically open to whoever, and competitive. Like there can be an unlimited number of volunteers for campaigns or whatever, and a massive number of field organizers, so most interested folks can participate that way. And obviously voting and donating is completely uncapped. Local party membership usually is unlimited as well. The other type is the competitive one. For instance, only one guy can be our state legislative candidate for a given district. If you want the job, you've got to be a better campaigner than anyone else who wants the job and out-compete them. It's generally my experience (and it may differ by state or party) that there's no "barrier to entry" in the sense of "a rule that says you must have X years of experience doing Y before you can do job Z" or "an absolute requirement that A and B must support you if you want to do C". Certainly there are cases where experience doing Y or the support of A and B are beneficial in a competition, but there's no hard limitation. The Puppy Bowl posted:Our understanding of law, civics, and government should be better than it is coming out of high school. That doesn't change the fact that specialization is required for a full understanding of any of the hyper specific aspects of our society. It's not a bad thing that lawyers are so deeply involved in our politics but it probably is a bad thing that so many lawyers are present to the exclusion of other socially relevant professions. We could use a lot more teachers, medical professionals, social workers, builders, etc. In addition to a higher level of knowledge, people need to recognize that politics, civics, and government is a lot deeper than it looks. I've noticed that a lot of people don't really regard anything in the field of politics as an actual skill that requires mastery.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:23
|
|
|
The Lemondrop Dandy posted:
It also takes mathematic skill so I classify it as STEM even if that's weird. From an english major's perspective, everyone from a doctor to an accountant is STEM. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:24
|
|
|
twodot posted:Right she's better than an actively evil person, but can't we elect politicians that simply don't have a history of war hysteria and jingoism? Democrats have basically let themselves be lulled into a false sense of do-nothing progressivism. Many probably came to believe, a la "liberal democracy is the end of history", that while democratic states can sometimes face challenges and threats, most of the US and the world is slowly getting better. I don't think most normal Dems support torture because they really relish the thought, more that they lack any serious ideological fortitude to reject bad ideas while seeming unpatriotic in the process. Many Dems are pretty gunshy about the concept of patriotism, given how deeply it seeps into every loving crack and pore of the American identity. And yeah, I do think the bench is *ideologically* shallow. There are many Dem candidates, but many of them have no serious idea about what they stand for. They have a vague sense of wanting to do the right thing, but decades of crappy myth-making has taught them that discourse and facts work universally, that free markets and free trade need at best to be more strictly regulated, and that social progress means just incrementally inching forward and hoping Ellen convinces the hicks to not hate gay people anymore. You see some Dems leaving this fold, but ultimately it's a tough habit to break and older Dems will rarely be able to do it. So yes, I think it's fine to rake them over the coals for their moral failings, but the contextual victories are something to be recognized. The fact that she voted down both Iraq interventions when even most Dems were on board with it and convinced Obama not to chicken out over the ACA seems like something noteworthy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 03:54
|
|
|
Mustached Demon posted:The stemlord douche creed. Who cares how much you hate it! The money's worth being miserable. Yeah man, gently caress all those lab rats who figured they'd do something go with their lives and contribute to society only to find that the only labs left were little more than sweatshops. People will buy anything tinged in pink in October but heaven forbid they actually maintain funding for basic research.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 04:00
|
|
|
STEMlords don't realize people in medical fields make way more than they do and have much better job security.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 04:07
|
|
|
Torpor posted:I wouldn't think of the word "malthusian" and take it to mean, "well, looks like we're gonna have to start killing people" instead of, "that's an interesting thought, we should implement policies and ideas so that we can (easily) avoid that fate."
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 04:14
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Yeah man, gently caress all those lab rats who figured they'd do something go with their lives and contribute to society only to find that the only labs left were little more than sweatshops. I'm talking more about going into the stereotypical coding job because the dollars and not the passion. Lab rats a noble profession only the bravest nerds can handle. Sadly, it's really hard to be a true, ppe-wearing lab rat and make good money. That's for management. What I'm saying here there's massive issues all across every sector that'll manifest in halting progress aka brain drain.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 04:19
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:A man brought a Soviet Flag to a Confederate protest in Shreveport, LA. It's funnier than you think. this is hilarious. The matter of fact way he says "that was a failed state. this was a failed state. they were both failed states" is great.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Yeah, but the government forcibly limiting reproductive rights, determining who is allowed to have children, or otherwise engaging in population control in order to stave off scarcity has such an awful history and is so unbelievably toxic and is so counter-normative that people would plow the entire arable surface of the planet into farmland and see the extinction of the majority of vertebrate species than countenance it. In present-day America this feels like one of them there those "citation needed" thingummies
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
Morbus posted:This isn't true. Yes, the starting wages for a person with a BS in biology or physics is not really much different than many degrees in social sciences, arts, and humanities. But job market is much better and the unemployment rate is far lower: Wait, are you seriously linking that document as evidence that my point was "not true?" Because either you didn't read it or you didn't read my post. Because that document shows precisely what I claimed: outside of engineering and computer science, the other sciences aren't much different. The pay for physical sciences and biology are all within a couple of thousand bucks of comparative literature and history. Unemployment rate in that paper for biology is 3.2, physical sciences 4.4, history 4.8, in a table with a big ol disclaimer about large coefficient of variation. It is not stated in the paper, but given the data source it is quite likely that these unemployment rates are all within the margin of error of each other. And all of that is only if you want to be super picky about the precise fields that I picked. Because otherwise the fact that physical sciences has pay that is right between comparative language and motherfucking communications majors, with an unemployment rate that is between English and psychology is obvious confirmation of what I said (biology with an unemployment rate between business and interdisciplinary studies and a pay between business and comparative lit). Hell, the very loving document you quote as evidence of it not being true has a "average unemployment for all fields of study: 3.5 - average unemployment for STEM: 3.5" right there. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Oct 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 05:10
|
|
|
The Lemondrop Dandy posted:
also it's gonna be decimated by automation before truck driving
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 05:33
|
|
|
The Muppets On PCP posted:also it's gonna be decimated by automation before truck driving A human will still need to flip the "creative accounting" toggle in the settings menu from time to time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 05:36
|
|
|
Mustached Demon posted:I'm talking more about going into the stereotypical coding job because the dollars and not the passion. Ok man, fair enough. It just kind of drives me nuts when folks go on and on about STEM people making too much or gentrifying and so on. I had to get out because the lab I worked at was a loving sweatshop and I still have friends who are struggling while trying to find cures for cancer but get lumped into the same folks that work for Amazon AND get protested as "Big Pharma". Because yes, it takes a huge lab and serous money to cure cancer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
I'm a physicist and I constantly tell everyone that if you're doing physics for any reason other than love of knowledge then you're going to hate it. The hours are long, the work can be tedious, the pay is bad, there is almost no job security, and in the end no one cares about your results. Plus you'll constantly get idiots who watched Cosmos telling you their stupid ideas and getting mad when you try to explain why their groundbreaking epiphany is garbage. On the plus side I know a lot about everything and feel sort of like I'm helping explore the universe and all its intricacies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 05:42
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Ok man, fair enough. It just kind of drives me nuts when folks go on and on about STEM people making too much or gentrifying and so on. I had to get out because the lab I worked at was a loving sweatshop and I still have friends who are struggling while trying to find cures for cancer but get lumped into the same folks that work for Amazon AND get protested as "Big Pharma". Because yes, it takes a huge lab and serous money to cure cancer. More that your sweatshop lab rats and such deserve livable wages. So do the poo poo factory workers. And the dudes who empty the lab rats trash.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 06:29
|
|
|
Mustached Demon posted:More that your sweatshop lab rats and such deserve livable wages. So do the poo poo factory workers. And the dudes who empty the lab rats trash.  i'm just glad i'm a labrat (programmer labrat, but still) in europe rather than the US, cause i have healthcare here, and at least I can afford a 270sqft apartment. hearing about adjunct professors in the US being homeless is pretty depressing
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 06:51
|
|
|
DC Murderverse posted:this is hilarious. The matter of fact way he says "that was a failed state. this was a failed state. they were both failed states" is great. It's great, especially when they try to explain that the CSA isn't a failed state.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 07:22
|
|
|
Trying to do your passion as your job will make 90% of people miserable. Get into a good career, make money, and enjoy your life and passions outside of your job. Use the money from your job to do what you really want to do. Trying to force it will just make you miserable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 07:32
|
|
|
Peachfart posted:Trying to do your passion as your job will make 90% of people miserable. Get into a good career, make money, and enjoy your life and passions outside of your job. Use the money from your job to do what you really want to do. I'm a public servant and I like It? I'm weird though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 07:36
|
|
|
Minimum wage for actual lab rats is now a litmus test.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 07:36
|
|
|
Remember when having a 9-5 job you were moderately competent at for the rest of your life until retirement was something to be dreaded?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 07:50
|
|
|
Mass shooting in Vegas ongoing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 08:04
|
|
|
Seems like it was outside of the actual concert venue? On the strip? At the Mandalay Bay? https://twitter.com/AP/status/914748124429733888
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 08:09
|
|
|
RuanGacho posted:I'm a public servant and I like It? I didn't say you should work a job you hate. I just think work should be a place you should take satisfaction for a job well done, and not something you pour yourself into.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 08:13
|
|
|
MoaM posted:Seems like it was outside of the actual concert venue? On the strip? At the Mandalay Bay? God drat, do not look up any of this stuff on Twitter if you want to get to sleep tonight. I watched a video and I thought the rhythmic popping sound I was hearing was a helicopter because it lasted for so long.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 08:16
|
|
|
MoaM posted:Seems like it was outside of the actual concert venue? On the strip? At the Mandalay Bay? Although it is a theory, the current running theory around The Internets on what happened is that the shooter got into a window up a ways on the Mandalay, used it as a fixed position (i.e. a place where they could brace etc), and then raked automatic fire across the crowd multiple times. Pretty much literally shooting fish in a barrel. The question is going to be how they got an automatic, because any debates about gun laws aside, full automatics - like the one used here blatantly is - are already dazzlingly illegal and have been so for decades. And a heavy automatic and the several hundred rounds of ammunition you can hear being fired on camera aren't exactly casual luggage. SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Oct 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
SpaceDrake posted:Although it is a theory, the current running theory around The Internets on what happened is that the shooter took position up a ways on the Mandalay, used it as a fixed position, and then raked automatic fire across the crowd multiple times. Pretty much literally shooting fish in a barrel. Sort of follows with where we are at one confirmed active shooter. From the sounds of it, the guy practically had an armory in the room he was set up in. Just for the assault weaponry alone, even assuming he didn't gather everything together from the same source, someone needs to hang for this. Reporting 20+ dead and >100 injured, and it sounds like the shooter was domestic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 09:42
|
|
|
SpaceDrake posted:Although it is a theory, the current running theory around The Internets on what happened is that the shooter got into a window up a ways on the Mandalay, used it as a fixed position (i.e. a place where they could brace etc), and then raked automatic fire across the crowd multiple times. Pretty much literally shooting fish in a barrel. Nevada is famous (infamous?) for being filled with borderline White Supremacist militia types. They have all sorts of weird and hilariously illegal poo poo, and they've pointed it at both regular police officers (with fatalities!) as well as the goddamn feds. Knowing that doesn't bring us any closer to solving the problem, but it does give us a good idea of who may have had the weapons to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 09:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 09:56 |
|
|
SpaceDrake posted:Although it is a theory, the current running theory around The Internets on what happened is that the shooter got into a window up a ways on the Mandalay, used it as a fixed position (i.e. a place where they could brace etc), and then raked automatic fire across the crowd multiple times. Pretty much literally shooting fish in a barrel. When automatic weapons were outlawed they let people keep ones made before the bill passed. They cost millions of dollars now and are hoarded by exactly the people you would expect. They pop up in weird places too—the killer cop who planted a gun on the guy he killed who just got acquitted carried a loving kalashnikov he picked up somewhere on a cop salary.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 09:45
|
|
