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Howdy! I'm in a bit of a situation; I've been accepted to an interview that I think is more formality than anything (I'm certainly not treating it that way, but I had two internal referrals which I think is helping push this forward a ton). Overall the position is pretty solid, a bit less money than I'd like with hours that are unfortunate but a necessity for the work I'll be doing, but also in my hometown where I'll have a support network of friends and family. I did receive an offer from another company, but it involves me moving out to the middle of nowhere (the nearest town of any size is 60 miles away) to a small, small town. This position pays more outright, but I'd be very isolated and unable to pursue any of my hobbies. I'm completely fine with receiving less money in order to have access to my friends and family. My question though, is what is the best way for me to phrase things in negotiations? I'm not really willing to walk away and take the other offer short of anything but an emergency, but I don't want to come off like that.
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Sep 19, 2017 23:28
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Spoke with a recruiter today about some positions in a field that I want to re-enter. She asked me what I was currently making and I gave her a salary range that was included on a previous application that her group received from me. She asked me if I could send a hard number instead, as her clients require it to determine --Can they afford the candidate in question? --Can they submit a worthwhile offer to the candidate in question? Am I correct to be skeptical of these stated reasons? Seems like an easy way to box myself in on salary negotiations if I do get an offer. Part of me just wants to lie and say that I make 10% or whatever more than I actually do, so that if I get an offer and they won't budge from the number that I gave the recruiter, I'll still be getting a raise from what I currently make.
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Sep 20, 2017 17:52
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C-Euro posted:Spoke with a recruiter today about some positions in a field that I want to re-enter. She asked me what I was currently making and I gave her a salary range that was included on a previous application that her group received from me. She asked me if I could send a hard number instead, as her clients require it to determine Yes, you're correct to be skeptical. Any number you give can only serve to box you in. Don't lie and give an inflated number -- that's still playing a losing game. You have no idea whether or not the company's willing to pay more than whatever you guess. (For example: how did you come up with current salary + 10% as the number to say? I'm guessing not "painstaking research into your target company's compensation structure and the hiring manager's budget".) For "What are you making now?" questions, say something like "That's confidential information between me and my employer and I won't reveal that information." You wouldn't tell a random stranger on the street how much you make; why are you telling a semi-random stranger who has an explicit interest to use it against you? For "How much are you looking for?" questions, say variations on "At this point, I'm looking to make sure that the company and I are a great fit. If we are, I can be flexible on the number, and I hope you/your client can too." or some other non-committal answer.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:50
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fantastic in plastic posted:Yes, you're correct to be skeptical. Any number you give can only serve to box you in. Don't lie and give an inflated number -- that's still playing a losing game. You have no idea whether or not the company's willing to pay more than whatever you guess. (For example: how did you come up with current salary + 10% as the number to say? I'm guessing not "painstaking research into your target company's compensation structure and the hiring manager's budget".)
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Sep 20, 2017 19:53
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fantastic in plastic posted:Yes, you're correct to be skeptical. Any number you give can only serve to box you in. Don't lie and give an inflated number -- that's still playing a losing game. You have no idea whether or not the company's willing to pay more than whatever you guess. (For example: how did you come up with current salary + 10% as the number to say? I'm guessing not "painstaking research into your target company's compensation structure and the hiring manager's budget".) Current salary+10% is how much I'd be willing to leave my current employer for, especially because I'm pretty sure I'm way underpaid at my current rate. I don't want to run into a situation where I can't advance in the interview/hiring process because I feel like it's very easy for a company or recruiter to say "well if you don't want to give us a number like we asked you to, then we'll focus our attention on these other candidates who will". That last thing you wrote, as much as I use it in practice, is probably interpreted as a non-answer. And the goon response of "well if they're getting hung up on salary before even interviewing you, then you don't want to work for them anyway" holds less water when I have a job and employer that I hate that barely pays me enough to get by. Just gonna keep talking to her and not mention pay again, and use your line if she mentions it again. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 21:51
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If you're sure you're way underpaid, I'm not sure why you'd set your cap at current rate + 10%.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:08
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Nail Rat posted:If you're sure you're way underpaid, I'm not sure why you'd set your cap at current rate + 10%.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:13
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Hoodwinker posted:Not an empty quote. You should be asking for market rate. The number I posted is close to market value, at least if the title for this new position is what I think it is. That's actually another good question- if you and your research says that [TITLE] implies a certain level of responsibility and pay grade, while a potential employer things [TITLE] think it implies something else, how do you reconcile that? I've found that a lot of common job title terms like "Associate" and "Specialist" mean different things to different companies, and sometimes they even change their mind mid-interview.
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Sep 20, 2017 23:21
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I don't think "ask for market rate" is very good advice, not just because it immediately begs the nearly-impossible-to-answer question, "what is market rate?", but also because a better thing to do is "ask for the maximum they will say yes to". Sometimes that's higher than market rate, and thus a strict improvement. It's ~sometimes~ answerable in a way that the first question isn't. And if the company is only looking to pay lower than market rate, it's no loss to you, you just don't take the job. I guess it's possible that you may waste your time if they were never gonna pay you fairly, but I personally see interview practice as worthwhile in general whether or not I'm ever gonna take the job. Obviously it's a similarly nebulous question but I think it's less-so than "market rate".
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Sep 20, 2017 23:26
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Need some advice on leveraging an upcoming job offer with my current employer. tl;dr I'm being poached by a former colleague from a job I really like in a city I really like for another role I'm pretty sure I would like a lot as well in a much more expensive city. Unsure if the offer will be good enough to get me to move out to the more expensive city and want to know how to leverage it at my current employer. So, I'm coming up on an odd situation and need some advice. I currently work for a management consulting company and I am an Associate (3rd level up from the bottom of the ladder). I like my job, I'm good at it, and I feel like I'm continually learning and developing with most new projects. Unfortunately, I have a manager who's not really invested in developing his direct reports and won't "go to bat" for me when it comes to it. Last year around performance review time, every senior consultant (two or three levels higher than myself) I worked with agreed that I should be promoted to Senior Associate because I greatly outperformed the expectations of a new hire at my level and have acted largely independently (at a senior associate level according to other senior consultants) to good results. Because I'd only been there a year, my manager wasn't optimistic about the promotion because "[company] doesn't promote to that level after only one year generally." I didn't get promoted. Fast forward to this year, we acquired a company and had some restructuring. I (and a portion of the team I was on) were moved into the new group that was formed due to the acquisition. I pushed to be promoted to Senior Associate again at midyear review because the reorg necessitated that I would be working even more independently and running my own projects and being at an Associate level would make that harder because people would see "Associate" next to my name and assume I'm not the one running the show on my work stream. Manager said he would try but still wasn't optimistic because midyear promotions aren't common. There were midyear promotions (within our group and adjacent groups even) and I still wasn't promoted and, like I feared, I've run into a few instances where I've had to fight and prove to senior consultants outside of our area that I know what I'm doing when it comes to my work, which just slows everything down and makes things inefficient when they won't let me do my job. Now, I'm being recruited by a former colleague of mine who left my current company to manage an analytics practice for a tech company. I'm very optimistic that I'll receive an offer as she is the hiring manager, knows what I'm capable of, and we've already discussed the role at length. I've gone through most of the interview process and the last step is flying out to meet her boss. The main issue is that the position is in SF and I live in a city with a much lower cost of living. While I think the role would be a good one for me, I don't think they'll be able to offer me the money I'd *want* to live in SF at the same level I'm currently living in my current city. For reference, I currently make $90k base + 8% - 15% bonus depending on how the company did, how I did, etc. It looks like the SF role maxes out at about $120k (maaaaaybe $130k but I think the hiring manager would have to seriously fight to get there) and I would only feel comfortable making the move out to SF if I'm offered $130k or more. So, how do I leverage the upcoming offer with my current company outside of our normal performance review/promotion schedule without laying an ultimatum down between promotion or me taking another job I may or may not want to take depending on the offer? I don't really want to leave my current city or this job yet but I am getting frustrated at being at this lower level (with the lower pay) when everyone agrees I should be at a higher level and feeling a bit underpaid for the amount of work I'm doing. The common advice seems to be that having the offer just lets you negotiate with your employer from a place of confidence rather than showing the offer and asking them to match but I'm not sure I could because I don't think the offer will be good enough that I'll want to take it AND the timing is off. Our next performance review isn't until the end of the year and this offer will most likely come in October, so I can't wait it out until it makes the most sense to bring it up during the review. For reference, if the new role is able to get to $130k or more (assuming the rest of the package is acceptable), I would probably make the move and the desire to stay at my current company would be about equal with the desire to be in the new role. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 18:59
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Figure out the cost of living increase and what percentage of your income goes to stuff that would become more expensive if you move. I realize this may be hard to tell for some things - groceries probably aren't going to change in price by the same proportion as rent but they will change. Your rent may double or whatever, but that's okay if your rent isn't a huge portion of your income. Your, say, 401k contribution "cost" isn't going to increase. Maybe you won't need a car in SF and that will save you money? (I had a similar situation where my rent would go up 2.5x and I sold my car and moved anyway and it turned out to be a fantastic decision.) Another perk of high COL/high income is that, if you want to leave, you can still take that high income with you when you negotiate for future positions regardless of where they are. There are a obviously a lot of intangibles as an adult moving to a new city. I personally love living in a major city and wouldn't give it up unless I had to, but you may not feel that way especially since you say you love your current city.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:33
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Figure out the cost of living increase and what percentage of your income goes to stuff that would become more expensive if you move. I realize this may be hard to tell for some things - groceries probably aren't going to change in price by the same proportion as rent but they will change. Your rent may double or whatever, but that's okay if your rent isn't a huge portion of your income. Your, say, 401k contribution "cost" isn't going to increase. Maybe you won't need a car in SF and that will save you money? (I had a similar situation where my rent would go up 2.5x and I sold my car and moved anyway and it turned out to be a fantastic decision.) Another perk of high COL/high income is that, if you want to leave, you can still take that high income with you when you negotiate for future positions regardless of where they are. I'm actually in Chicago, so equivalent major cities, with no car and better transit than SF (imo). I've done some calculations and rent is the biggest change for sure since I don't want roommates since I haven't had them for 5+ years. That's where I got the $130k figure. At that point, I'm pretty sure, financially, I'll be in a similar place as in Chicago. The other thing is I came to Chicago from NYC with the salary I have now because of COL and I'm a little reticent to jump back into an extremely expensive city again even with a 35% increase in base. I'm more worried about if the offer isn't quite good enough, how can I use it to better my situation with my current employer. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 20:30
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I moved to the East Bay from Chicago 2 years ago and you're right. Rent is higher, especially in SF, but I didn't see a significant increase in prices of much else. Regarding the promotion, do you have any interactions with your boss's boss? Can you present your case to him/her? Did you ask your boss or his boss what you needed to do to get a promotion? Unfortunately, it seems like time/seniority plays a bigger part than pure merit. This is the main reason why jumping between companies is the tried and true path to advancement. For example- I approached my supervisor about a promotion after working over a year ago at my first mid year review. I presented why I thought I deserved it, brought along the published career tech ladder and showed where I thought I was and asked for his feedback. He agreed I was on the right path and to keep doing what I'm doing. At the time I was a year and a half short of the "typical" time in the industry for my next promo. He said he put in for me at the last round of promotions (apparently they typically done at a certain time of year at this company, not aligned with year end reviews). Still haven't gotten that promo yet despite being assured twice over the last 6 months that it has been in the works. In the mean time, I've been approached about two other internal positions, both of which involve promotions, one of which is actually for a position two levels higher, discussed these with my boss, still no promo almost 2 months later. Just my personal experience, but I'm convinced I'm going to have to either take one of the internal moves or look externally to keep going up. I thought that maybe the internal job offers would incentivize my boss to try to keep me around but it doesn't seem like it's going to make a difference. My last company was similar in that they'd hire people in from outside at higher levels than their time in industry would typically place them.
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Oct 1, 2017 20:45
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90% of people who leave a position do so because of the relationship with the person to whom they're a direct report. If you don't feel supported and encouraged day in and day out by your boss, directly, one of two things are true: 1) you're a bad employee or 2) he or she is a bad manager. If it's one, then hey no problem keep doing what you're doing and cash those checks, homie. If it's two, you're going to have to pull one of an increasingly disruptive series of levers to get what should be your due.
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Oct 2, 2017 13:18
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I realize this is the negotiation thread but I'm with EAT FASTER!!!!! on this one. If your boss has no motivation to arrange anything he's not interested in you and probably can't be bothered to do so in the future. Either jump to a different department in your company with the help of the people who recommended you to get a promotion or jump ship. I doubt your boss will do stuff to help you along unless it directly affects his performance review.
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Oct 2, 2017 14:18
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I spoke to a recruiter for a competitor and had a few questions. I'm currently on track for promotion to Sr level in April (not guaranteed, of course). This would bring my pay up to ~$85-90k not including an extra $10k in unspent per diems. The competitor I spoke to won't allow me to come in as a senior with under 3 years experience. That pay range on glass door is 110-117k. They would have to bring me in as a level 2 and don't do per diems. I told the recruiter I'd want 90-110k. This is to offset the loss of per diem and the fact that I'd be switching companies. Can I tell them that the reason I want more than normal is to offset the unspent per diems and that I don't spend my per diems and keep anything unspent? They're all under the GSA per diem rate - I just don't splurge on the road. Their only level 2 salary on glass door is from 82-89k, so I'd be asking a premium over this. She already told me she couldn't do 110k, but would I be ok at 90k. I told her that I'd consider what they come up with. I'd also be leaving about $2k of non-vested 401k money on the table. Should I bring this up as well? My options would be to take this new, comparable, job for 90k with the possibility for promotion to senior sometime later with 110k+ or take a promotion to senior with the current company as soon as April to 85-90k with additional ~10k in per diems with the eventual promotion to senior 2 later (3+ years away). Or a third option, take the offer to my current employer, see if they'll pay me more now and maybe still get a promotion as soon as April, but probably not as much $.
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Oct 3, 2017 22:39
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spf3million posted:I moved to the East Bay from Chicago 2 years ago and you're right. Rent is higher, especially in SF, but I didn't see a significant increase in prices of much else. Unfortunately, I can't go to his boss because his current boss isn't his actual boss anymore thanks to the reorg and we don't have a real rapport anyway. And your story sounds depressingly familiar.  EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:90% of people who leave a position do so because of the relationship with the person to whom they're a direct report. If you don't feel supported and encouraged day in and day out by your boss, directly, one of two things are true: 1) you're a bad employee or 2) he or she is a bad manager. If it's one, then hey no problem keep doing what you're doing and cash those checks, homie. If it's two, you're going to have to pull one of an increasingly disruptive series of levers to get what should be your due. LochNessMonster posted:I realize this is the negotiation thread but I'm with EAT FASTER!!!!! on this one. If your boss has no motivation to arrange anything he's not interested in you and probably can't be bothered to do so in the future. It's definitely #2. He's a bad manager. He's a great consultant who I don't think wanted or needed people management responsibilities but they were thrust on him before I came to the company and here we are. I'm always the one who initiates performance discussions, goal setting, etc. If I didn't, we'd never discuss anything related to my career. I guess I'll see where this offer comes in and just make a determination from there to jump ship or stay. I don't know if I can even leverage it with a manager like mine and that was my main fear/concern. At least it'll be a good starting point on knowing my worth as I get back on the job market.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:32
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I'm not sure this is the best thread for this, but it's semi-negotiation related and I didn't want to start my own thread for such a small question. In early September, I signed a contingent offer as a Sr. Developer with a consulting company (Company A). The offer was contingent on my approval by the client Company A is starting a new project with. I finally had an interview with the client, and it seems that things will move forward now. Company A told me I'd receive a revised non-contingent offer shortly that I will need to sign to finalize my employment. Meanwhile, since the interview with the client took so long to setup, I continued interviewing elsewhere. A manager from my previous company (who I really enjoyed working with) offered me a role on his team at Company B as a Lead Developer. This role would give me a lot more career opportunity and would be working with people from my previous company that I enjoyed working with. (Long story short: we were all laid off, and a handful of people all went to Company B. I didn't think Company B was hiring for my role, so I didn't explore it as an opportunity. Turns out I was wrong.) Company B's offer is slightly stronger, but I am mostly leaning towards taking it because I'll get to work with people that I really enjoyed working with again and will have more responsibility / career opportunity. I feel like a jerk having signed the contingent offer from Company A so long ago with the intent of joining their team back then, but I read the contingent offer I signed, and I'm not breaking a contract or anything by not accepting the official offer when it comes. I guess my question is: would I be in the wrong for taking the offer from Company B even though I signed a contingent offer from Company A a month ago (but haven't actually started employment there yet)? Good-Natured Filth fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 19:26
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no if a company takes a month to hire you and you find something else that's better in the meantime, sucks for the company that took a month to hire you. You'll probably be burning a bridge with Company A, but even then it all comes down to how you frame it.
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Oct 5, 2017 19:29
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Nope. Company A would fire you the very second it became profitable to do so and you should have the same policy regarding them. If you believe Company B is strictly preferable, go there.
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Oct 5, 2017 19:29
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If company A wanted you that badly they should have just hired you without the contingent offer BS. I work for a small-ish software consulting company, and if we have a candidate that we really like, we will hire them even if we don't have an immediate customer for them to work. Finding good candidates and actually getting them to accept an offer is hard enough. And finding customers for good developers is not terribly difficult. A few weeks of bench time is worth eating to get a good hire. That company A did not do that is a sign that they are not so much a consultancy, but just a contracting body shop. That is, if you don't have a contract to work immediately after your previous one ends, you are probably about to get fired. Don't give that sort of company any more loyalty than they give to you (zero). Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 19:33
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"Feeling bad for the company" is not a reason to take a job, ever ever ever. They are a company. They are hiring you because they want to use you to make more money than they are paying you, not because you are *~so good for each other~* If I could go back and slap that into my 22-year-old self to save myself from the miserable hellpit that was my first employer, I'd do it in a heartbeat
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Oct 5, 2017 19:34
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Thanks all. I had assumed that'd be the answer. It's very hard for me to take emotions out of the job search when I feel empathetic to companies trying to find good talent. However, I need to do what's best for me, my family, and my career, and that should take priority over potentially burning a bridge. Thanks again! On a side note, I did use some of the negotiation tactics in this thread, and the offer at Company B is a 15% salary increase + one week more vacation than the company I was laid off from, so that brings the conversation back to the purpose of the thread. 
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Oct 5, 2017 19:52
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Good-Natured Filth posted:Thanks all. I had assumed that'd be the answer. It's very hard for me to take emotions out of the job search when I feel empathetic to companies trying to find good talent. However, I need to do what's best for me, my family, and my career, and that should take priority over potentially burning a bridge. Thanks again! I've been following your story in the goals thread (not a creepy stalker!) and I'm really glad this is turning out well for you. Congrats!
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Oct 5, 2017 19:55
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Can anyone debate the benefit or lack of it from going from an employer that has a UHC PPO that I pay very little for (something like $20 bi weekly) vs a prospective employer that only offers an HSA and HRA options that would be about $120 bi weekly? I've always had PPOs, so I was unsure of even getting beyond the interview if this is a bad idea. FWIW, I have a chronic condition that requires daily medication, but that's about it.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:16
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How seriously should I take a comment that "$58 is the high end of the range for this position"? Is asking for 15% too much? Strategies for asking for relocation or signing bonus? I'm in the fourth round of interviews w a large (2500 person) company halfway across the country. The new company is in an area with a higher COL, and I currently have a decent job. They haven't said they don't offer relocation. They did say $58k is a the high end of the range. This would be a 15% cut for me. I'd be happy to keep my current salary rate, though (high 60s), because I'd really like to be in this new city. I'm gun shy about asking for more, as I was awaiting an offer from a company a few months ago; hiring manager and VP said I should expect an offer letter. When I gave them my (seriously reasonable) salary requirements, they immediately went silent with all communication and then declined. No negotiation, nothing. (I later heard they were actually under a hiring freeze, but still. )
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Oct 6, 2017 01:25
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Bitchkrieg posted:How seriously should I take a comment that "$58 is the high end of the range for this position"? Is asking for 15% too much?
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Oct 6, 2017 03:01
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Cacafuego posted:Can anyone debate the benefit or lack of it from going from an employer that has a UHC PPO that I pay very little for (something like $20 bi weekly) vs a prospective employer that only offers an HSA and HRA options that would be about $120 bi weekly? I've always had PPOs, so I was unsure of even getting beyond the interview if this is a bad idea. They only offer HSA and HRA and no other healthcare benefits? If so, that means: - You get to keep what goes in your HSA forever. It is yours. - Your employer keeps whatever is in your HRA at the end of the year that you didn't spend. This better not come out of your paycheck! - You need to go buy your own insurance on an exchange to fulfill the ACA individual mandate. - If your healthcare expenses exceed your HSA and HRA balances, you get to join the large percentage of Americans in significant medical debt! Sounds like a bad option to me. I'd hard pass. Hoodwinker posted:If you aren't going to take the offer because you lose 15%, you lose nothing by asking for it and being declined. To boot, if your move means a higher cost of living, you get double hit with the lower salary and higher expenses. The best thing you can do for your career is get used to the idea of a company rejecting you because they are too cheap. (This will only leave the companies that are not too cheap to hire you!)
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Oct 6, 2017 18:25
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:They only offer HSA and HRA and no other healthcare benefits? This was my assessment as well, thanks for confirming.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:36
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:The best thing you can do for your career is get used to the idea of a company rejecting you because they are too cheap. (This will only leave the companies that are not too cheap to hire you!) Thank you. I was being neurotic and appreciate the reality check. Contacted by two more companies for interviews today, one of which is offering compensation in the mid-high 70s. 
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Oct 6, 2017 23:42
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I have some questions about calculating total compensation. How should I value vacation/sick time? Should I put a number on it, or is it kinda separate when talking about the whole package? If I get 2 weeks right now and somebody offers me 3 weeks, is there a price value on that, or does it strictly come down to personal preference? How about overtime? I work scheduled overtime (12 hours time and a half, 12 hours double time) every month, it's dependable for now, and I can almost guarantee some more overtime (I'm at scheduled +112 hrs right now). What about pension, how does that play into the equation? I don't even know where to start there.
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Oct 14, 2017 06:16
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Yeonik posted:I have some questions about calculating total compensation. How should I value vacation/sick time? Should I put a number on it, or is it kinda separate when talking about the whole package? If I get 2 weeks right now and somebody offers me 3 weeks, is there a price value on that, or does it strictly come down to personal preference? You can calculate the value of vacation and holiday as there are 2080 working hours in a year, however there is a personal valuation component as most employers won’t allow you to take more and won’t payout if you take less. I would value overtime as a function of how much your paid minus how much you value that time as you’re giving the company more time that you could use elsewhere in exchange for higher pay. I’d probably also add a risk factor if you’re comparing jobs as overtime generally is not guaranteed. A simplistic valuation of a pension would be to value it at what you’d have to save to match it. You’re probably going to have to make a ton of assumptions, but that should at least give you a ballpark figure.
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Oct 14, 2017 07:50
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Just wanted to add to the praise for this thread. Wife was laid off a couple weeks ago and has been interviewing around. Got an offer from a company that was 10% over what she was making before. She really wanted the job and has never negotiated before so was ready to take it, but I twisted her arm into sending a counteroffer and we got another 10% over that with zero effort, they didn't even bat an eye. Could probably have gotten more but still a great result thanks to this thread.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:08
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Generally speaking how much range does a company have when doing yearly increases? Last year they gave me 7% but didn't pay out a bonus. This year I've already renegotiated a 17% increase with a minimum guarantee on the bonus (written agreement) so I'm expecting push back on the yearly review. The thing is I'm highly valuable here. I'm working towards becoming our CISO and leading many initiatives on revenue increasing platforms - plus I continue my customer facing work which drives a lot of revenue. I want to get what I'm worth in my yearly review. I'm thinking I could possibly ask for over 7% but I'm not sure where absurdness ends. Maybe I should just anchor high and let them come back with a reality number?
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Oct 24, 2017 12:38
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Sepist posted:Generally speaking how much range does a company have when doing yearly increases? Last year they gave me 7% but didn't pay out a bonus. This year I've already renegotiated a 17% increase with a minimum guarantee on the bonus (written agreement) so I'm expecting push back on the yearly review. The thing is I'm highly valuable here. I'm working towards becoming our CISO and leading many initiatives on revenue increasing platforms - plus I continue my customer facing work which drives a lot of revenue. I want to get what I'm worth in my yearly review. I'm thinking I could possibly ask for over 7% but I'm not sure where absurdness ends. Maybe I should just anchor high and let them come back with a reality number? If you've already gotten 17% adjustment and a guaranteed bonus, I think you'll likely find they're gonna balk at paying out an annual raise on top of that. In their minds, they've already adjusted to meet your market value this year. I've never pursued a C-level role; but I guarantee you that demanding two raises in the same year will mean that they start looking at other options for CISO. That does NOT mean that they have any other options that are realistic in the near term, and it doesn't mean that you aren't worth what you're seeking. It does however mean that you're going to find fewer opportunities to do the kind of work you're doing and earn the kind of compensation you're earning. You're reaching a point where generic internet thread advice is going to be of less use, because there's a lot of options in front of you about how to proceed. Off the top of my head you could: - Play it cool and maybe get a raise and maybe get more difficult to replace. You will probably still get replaced if you put enough pressure on this to make them squirm. - Demand what you think you're worth and see what happens; they may balk, and it may derail your CISO aspirations - Try to find a similar role elsewhere and use that as leverage, difficult when you're working toward CISO, not the CISO. This is the one case where title actually does matter. Ultimately noone here's going to be able to tell you what to do because a lot of what will be "Best" is going to depend on the kind of people whom you work with. I think the one useful question to fix on your mind is: "Can you parlay a CISO title into more compensation in the long term than strongly demanding what you're worth in the present will give you?"
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Oct 24, 2017 13:44
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Ultimately noone here's going to be able to tell you what to do because a lot of what will be "Best" is going to depend on the kind of people whom you work with. I think the one useful question to fix on your mind is: "Can you parlay a CISO title into more compensation in the long term than strongly demanding what you're worth in the present will give you?" Last point is really good, thank you!
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Oct 24, 2017 15:07
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How do I really move promotion or raise talks forward with my boss? Do I tell them I'm going to look elsewhere or do I keep my mouth shut? This is my first job out of college and have been in this position for 2 years and 3 total at this company. My company has performance discussions 3x a year with out last coming up shortly. I am underpaid, a key player in our group and have my hand in 3/4 of the projects that our VP spoke about at a recent all hands meeting. If my pay grade matched what I am doing I would be making 10-20k more than I do now. I was in talks with my last manager before she left about promotions and she said she was "working on it". I get the same garbage from my new boss but it's been going on for 8 months and no money. I going to look for other positions internally and externally but how stern can I be before putting myself in hot water?
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Oct 24, 2017 16:56
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a dingus posted:How do I really move promotion or raise talks forward with my boss? Do I tell them I'm going to look elsewhere or do I keep my mouth shut? This is my first job out of college and have been in this position for 2 years and 3 total at this company. My company has performance discussions 3x a year with out last coming up shortly.
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Oct 24, 2017 16:59
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a dingus posted:How do I really move promotion or raise talks forward with my boss? Do I tell them I'm going to look elsewhere or do I keep my mouth shut? This is my first job out of college and have been in this position for 2 years and 3 total at this company. My company has performance discussions 3x a year with out last coming up shortly.
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Oct 24, 2017 17:11
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They will “keep working on it” until you leave and/or give you bare minimal raises to keep the value:cost rating as large as possible (in their advantage of course). Start interviewing and get paid.
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Oct 24, 2017 19:09
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