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Lord Koth posted:I mean, this is a company that took loving months to fix a goddamn spreadsheet error (Iowa's superstructure HP at launch) Don't forget the CV skill that granted a 100% bonus when it was only meant to be 10%. How long did it take to fix that one?
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Oct 2, 2017 21:20
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Vengarr posted:Where is "here"? Because it's pretty well-balanced at the lower tiers and a complete clusterfuck past tier 7 or so. Thanks for your wonderful input on this game you don't play, please post in some other thread of a game you do TIA
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Oct 2, 2017 21:51
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Arrgytehpirate posted:How are they different than arty in wot? I always figured that was the point of cv Uhh CVs do not typically die in 1-2 hits from enemy guns, even BB AP. High tier CVs especially can have heavy cruiser or better armor, in addition to not-terrible top speeds and typically cruiser level or better HP pools. Arty rarely bounces a shell that hits them, and they often can get one shot by medium caliber guns, or at worst 2-3 shot. They're also not very mobile. Arty has trouble dealing with people at close range, due to their fixed guns and slow traverse. The further away a target is, the longer it takes for the Arty's shell to arrive, giving the target time to move out of the way. A CV's potential DPS only goes up as the range closes, and the only threat of a close range fight is the fact that they can actually take damage from enemy guns, something that usually doesn't happen. Planes lose no effectiveness at close range, nor at extreme long range. They always move the same speed and always do the same damage. Arty is blind as gently caress and desperately requires teammates to spot for it, as they rarely can spot for themselves. CVs are the kings of vision control in WoWS, having unparalleled ability to spot hostiles from anywhere on the map and KEEP them lit. Arty's AOE damage punishes bunched up hostiles and their rate of fire is slow, but not glacial, allowing them to force teams to not sit still (at least not without anti-arty cover). CVs punish lone ships ridiculously well, incentivizing teams to ball up and combine AA to thwart, or at least weaken, strikes. Arty, in tanks, function a lot like how sniper battleships operate in boats, if those sniper BBs died in one hit. Carriers, on the other hand, have no counterpart in tanks. It would be like if scout tanks could spot and shoot you while remaining stealthed, and then fired homing shells at you that lost effectiveness if you were -insert AA build ship here-. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 22:45
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Victor Surge posted:Thanks for your wonderful input on this game you don't play, please post in some other thread of a game you do TIA No. The problems are blatantly obvious and have barely budged since release. Or what? Are you going to argue that high-level play isn't a dull, passive snipefest between players on opposite sides of the map? That class balance isn't completely skewed? That the UI isn't obtuse (when it's not deliberately hiding information from the players)? Feel free to debate me, but I can't stand this kind of passive-aggressive bullshit. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 22:55
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Vengarr posted:No. Kay. I'm not going to argue with you, period, since you don't like playing the game and stated that you have stopped playing, I feel you should stop wasting your time trying to play it anymore and posting in the thread, better? Victor Surge fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 23:01
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Victor Surge posted:Kay. You don't like playing the game, so stop wasting your time playing it and posting in the thread, better? I like the game just fine, when it works. If they hadn't changed matchmaking to make tiers 5-6 so painful, I'd still be playing it. Talking to you might be a waste, but I'm sure there's a good conversation to be had here. I'm still in UNCUT (unless they dropped me) and was planning to come back for clan battles, but now they're loving that up too. So...
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Oct 2, 2017 23:04
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bloom posted:So if people will play BBs anyway why do they need to be the most powerful class? BBs in general aren't that much more overpowered than anything else. Skill variance between battleship players is rarely the deciding factors in the game. In general, if we are the rank classes in terms of their impact at winning games, it clearly is CVs at the forefront, followed by DDs and BBs and finally Cruisers bringing up the rear. I do feel BBs are very powerful in the mid tiers around 6-8. But by T9 and T10, personal experience BBs that don't have a good supporting core of teammates can have a tough time outside overpowered BBs like Conq and Yamato. By T9 and T10, most cruisers that are well positioned are now exceedingly dangerous to BBs who now have to worry about them as well as incredibly dangerous DD swarms that seem to infest high tier play. Overall class balance is ok imo outside of CVs being absolute lovely for the game. Certain ships within classes though, that is a separate loving story. The insane variance in power stemming from just baseline powercreep to outright pay to win ships like Belfast, Kaga, Kutuzov, etc from other ships in the same class and tier are just mind boggling. The IJN vs USN CV issues well documented and outrageous. As is the fact that CVs despite being very high on the skill floor for competent play can absolutely smash DDs and BBs out of existence whenever they want with little to no counterplay.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:10
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Vengarr posted:I like the game just fine, when it works. If they hadn't changed matchmaking to make tiers 5-6 so painful, I'd still be playing it. Talking to you might be a waste, but I'm sure there's a good conversation to be had here. Okay fine, I went a little bit overboard, but I don't think the hyperbolic "Is the game good/better....nope!" Is a good opening to debate.  Feel free to jump into the  about CVs / clan wars that's going on right now though.Also I don't find high tiers to be boring at all. I mean I get what people say and I can only manage a 60% in tier 10 solo (66% with Mo and Fletch in 9) but high tiers are all about positioning and for players who really get map awareness and when and where to push and all that, it can be pretty exciting. I mean I guess it's boring if you play the Yamato. Also I like 5-6, but it's terrible for players just getting there. Victor Surge fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 23:12
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I like the game. Sure, the balance isn't perfect, but it's reasonable if you don't consider CVs. Quite frankly I too wouldn't know how to balance a class that historically made everything obsolete. If you make capital ships too powerful, nobody is going to play other classes. Unless you want to lock out of the game CVs, their very nature is to do everything and do it better than anything else.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:16
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I honestly enjoy 6~9 the most in terms of matchmaking. Though high tier maps like Atlantic, Tears of the Cruisers, Mountain Range, Okinawa, and Ocean are clearly horrid. I am not including CVs in this, obviously. Deep Water torpedoes on Graf Zeppelin might be a step in the right direction. Though making plane spotting like cyclones would contribute far more to bringing cruisers to the fore. CVs shouldn't be able to hard counter surface scouts / opportunists like DDs as easily as they do right now.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:24
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Cippalippus posted:If you make capital ships too powerful, nobody is going to play other classes. Unless you want to lock out of the game CVs, their very nature is to do everything and do it better than anything else. There are a lot of things you could do to make them less obnoxious without being totally useless. Increase the time and distance from the start of an attack run to the time planes actually drop payload to increase reaction time. Remove the ability to pull planes out of drop mode once you commit them to it so mistakes are more punishing. Increase the spacing between torpedo drops to minimize the ability to land 1 punch KOs. Remove their ability to spot for the team (though as I have argued in the past, removing ALL team spotting would solve a great many problems with this game including overpowered consumables like hydro and radar). You would have to buff plane health to some degree or tone down defensive fire so it doesn't just shred planes for free to compensate but doing some of this would remove the all or nothing nature of CVs at the moment.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:26
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If they double/trippled the min arming distance on CV torps I could get behind that.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:41
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My two favorite and best ships are the Kuma and Clemson. For whatever reason after t4 my stats just loving plummet.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:41
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I don't think it's hyperbolic. poo poo, they're still waffling on fixing smoke. A problem that has existed since beta and only gotten worse. Although it was a lot funnier in beta IMO, where you could have a Fubuki/Benson/Kitakami platoon that was just a permanent wall of smoke that vomited torpedoes in all directions. They've made two major changes in two years: eliminating stealth firing and nerfing torpedoes. Neither of which has really put a dent in the greater problem of passivity that plagues the upper tiers. Optimal build for the Yamato, largest and most powerful battleship ever built, with more secondary guns than the Death Star? Stealth build. Optimal tactics? Stay 13km from everyone and punish anyone with the temerity to try and do something. People complain about bad BB drivers hugging the edges of the map--and they're right--but these are definitely the tactics that the game rewards. This honestly isn't that bad, though. It's annoying and frustrating, sure, but not game-breaking on its own. The real problem is--what are you supposed to think when these issues don't even have fixes attempted for years? Are they not being seen as problems, or is there simply zero interest in fixing them? Giving how clear UI bugs didn't get fixed for years (Remember that bug where carrier squadrons could get stuck and unable to receive commands?), I'm betting the latter. How is that not demoralizing?
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Oct 2, 2017 23:43
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Arrgytehpirate posted:My two favorite and best ships are the Kuma and Clemson. For whatever reason after t4 my stats just loving plummet. There's a good reason those are the best non premium seal clubbers. Don't forget the border fix early on and a lot of nice former mods added into the main game, and I'm pretty sure the smoke fix is coming out next patch as they've said as much at least. Having played with it in DDs and RN cruisers I didn't notice a major difference. It'll really put a damper on mixed divisions though. Victor Surge fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 23:44
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Submarines.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:55
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Hot Karl Marx posted:Submarines. They will add submarines before any major CV overhauls...discuss.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:01
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Victor Surge posted:They will add submarines before any major CV overhauls...discuss. Well, anime I-401 did show up on the fully revealed tech tree as a T11 at one point, so... 
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Oct 3, 2017 00:06
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There's still hope yet!
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Oct 3, 2017 00:18
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Victor Surge posted:They will add submarines before any major CV overhauls...discuss. They already did, the sub just wasn't playable.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:20
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on the weekends, I can't play my nelson or any premium because I'm focused (5+), but I have the most fun battles. On the weekdays, I can't win a game because everyone that's fairly good at the game is placed on the other team. It's like I enjoy hurting myself, and spend time and money to do so. Almost landed 2 double strikes in a Danae (of all ships) only to misjudge a Wyoming\s reload (i sometimes count between shots, is that weird?) , and it's like ok, just a few more games and I'll go to bed. I only need 4 hours sleep, right? https://1drv.ms/i/s!ArZXz59ZAgNbyh6kIuwoVq4jgD0r Does this link correctly? My night so far, hehe Catpants McStabby fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 01:42
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Catpants McStabby posted:on the weekends, I can't play my nelson or any premium because I'm focused (5+), but I have the most fun battles. The worst part about these games is that by the nature of their grind, being good nets you so many rewards, and make winning in the future easier (through flags, high skill captains, etc). I get like you sometimes but some days you need to learn when to cut bait. Some ships click one day and not the next, and sometimes losing streaks encourage you to take dumb risks to try and carry games. Just don't get caught up in it too much.
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Oct 3, 2017 02:32
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I'm over this poo poo game. All I want to do is get in brawls with my Tirpitz and pretend I'm battlestar galactica just rolling through the enemy death ball lighting poo poo up, and instead I get focused by a loving carrier 6 minutes in the game or stuck in a nose in dead stop loving shitfest. I've been grinding the British battleships and after the T7 it's by far the least fun I've had in a line so far. Sit back and piddle away with HE hoping for fires, wtf gameplay is that? Yeah you can rack up big numbers but it's boring. DD's are dumb, Cruisers are alright but gently caress shooting literal hundreds of times for poo poo damage each.
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Oct 3, 2017 06:27
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Tier 9 and 10 KM CAs rock. Even with a captain in training and non functioning skills. I think the hindenburg and I are going to get along just fine  
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Oct 3, 2017 07:00
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Yep, the Roon and the Hindenburg are great, especially after the terrible Hipper.
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Oct 3, 2017 08:05
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Arrgytehpirate posted:My two favorite and best ships are the Kuma and Clemson. For whatever reason after t4 my stats just loving plummet. I firmly believe that T4 is the most fun you can have as a DD/CA/CL, but I'm slowly figuring out how to best play T5 as a Cruiser and now winning/surviving more. But sometimes the matchmaking fucks with you; had a match we were losing badly and I was in an Emerald, so I thought gently caress it i'll charge this BB as we're behind 300 to 800 or something retarded. I got 6 torpedo hits and no sink as they were a Tier 7 premium with more than 1/3rd health remaining, at least he complimented my good salvo before smashing me to pieces v  vThe only BB I loved was the Wyoming, as i'd play it as a DD where i'd close the distance as much as I could with 3 fires, flooding, repair still charging, and then start smashing everything that gets within 5km of me. I got 2 BBs and a DD on solomon islands by just being a kamikaze battleship.
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Oct 3, 2017 08:34
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ZombieLenin posted:Yes the CV problems have been around for "two loving years." My whole loving point actually. They have been around that long because fixing CVs will be a hard thing to do, because they don't know how to do it, which means your talking thousands of hours of redesign work. This is why your posts are loving retarded. How do you know this to be true? Every sentence is fantasy. The 2 CV/spotting changes I proposed sound like they could be made and tested well within one patch cycle. Edit: Yes I could be wrong about the timescale too; the reason why I say it should be quick is because they already have the tech in place with regards to how cyclones work. kaesarsosei fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 08:54
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Vengarr posted:I don't think it's hyperbolic. poo poo, they're still waffling on fixing smoke. A problem that has existed since beta and only gotten worse. Although it was a lot funnier in beta IMO, where you could have a Fubuki/Benson/Kitakami platoon that was just a permanent wall of smoke that vomited torpedoes in all directions. quote:They've made two major changes in two years: eliminating stealth firing and nerfing torpedoes. RADAR, maybe? I mean, on top of the trillion other things that have changed, such as massive nerfs to CVs, rather dramatic changes to AP penetration, a pretty significant nerf to higher tiered BB's manueverability, the captain skill rework, etc, etc. And the only torpedoes they've nerfed are IJN ones... US torps are still in the same state as they've been since the last change back in open beta I think (the range increase on T6-8 torps), minus the addition of Torpedo Acceleration. quote:Neither of which has really put a dent in the greater problem of passivity that plagues the upper tiers. Optimal build for the Yamato, largest and most powerful battleship ever built, with more secondary guns than the Death Star? Stealth build. Optimal tactics? Stay 13km from everyone and punish anyone with the temerity to try and do something. People complain about bad BB drivers hugging the edges of the map--and they're right--but these are definitely the tactics that the game rewards. Was it caused by torpedoes? Obviously not, IJN torps have been nerfed repeatedly since forever and its only gotten worse. Was it caused by CVs? Well this can be easily debunked since nobody loving plays CVs and oftentimes the best strategy against a CV is to play aggressively and force a decisive fight early to limit the CV's impact over time. Was it caused by the economy? We've had large changes to income, including the scrapping of repair costs in favor of a flat cost, and the addition of T10 permaflages, and none of that has caused players to play less passively. So what IS causing it? Battleships, duh. Well, more specifically, the insane range ships at T9-10 can achieve, pushing engagements out to ridiculous ranges and meaning that players that push even remotely into the map can certainly get crossfired from anywhere on the map by a BB with 22+km range. Cruisers also get some pretty big range numbers here, and since they can't go in without eating that deadly BB crossfire, they sit at range too, and pelt any tanking BBs with HE to death. Then those BBs think "poo poo, HE is OP" and they go out to range too. If you want to bring ships closer together, you need to bring their ranges down. Nothing, and I repeat, NOTHING else will actually do what you think it will do. Nerfing stealth won't fix it... nerfing stealth is just going to push even more ship types out to max range. Don't be dumb.
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Oct 3, 2017 09:03
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Apparently a big ole banwave hit NA server last night. Hope you weren't running any mods or ReShade/SweetFX. Seems like a boatload of false positives. Classic WG reaction as well since they nuked the thread on their forums about it.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:43
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I would be super pissed if i got swept up in the ban wave for running aslains modpack. Ive got lots more money than i want to think about invested in this game and id be really mad if it disappeared because wg cant bother to double check poo poo before slapping the ban button.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:54
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orange juche posted:I would be super pissed if i got swept up in the ban wave for running aslains modpack. Ive got lots more money than i want to think about invested in this game and id be really mad if it disappeared because wg cant bother to double check poo poo before slapping the ban button. Start salting now 
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Oct 3, 2017 13:03
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Hazdoc posted:
As a guy who has spent much of my time in high tier BBs, its torpedoes all day every day. All of these things you mention here are so far back on the list of concerns compared to torpedoes that it is next to nonexistent. Especially with the proliferation of 5xDD meta where torpedoes literally can flood entire sections of a map in waves . It literally kills any and all incentive for moving forwards because guessing wrong or failing to anticipate just right can end your game in an instant. This cross fire stuff is an element but overall its not even that much damage. You can heal most of it and you can fire back at most opponents so it doesn't feel as dirty or cheap as torpedoes which pop up at the worst times and butt gently caress you from seemingly nowhere. Even if it doesn't kill you or even do that much damage or it doesn't happen that often, its a powerful psychological barrier. ? With CVs you can see the planes coming a mile away so you just resign yourself to the fact you are getting dropped Nerfed torpedoes or not, the primary mindset of BB players at all times in almost all tiers is how not torpedoed.
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Oct 3, 2017 15:52
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I run Aslain's pack and I'm not banned as far as I can tell. 
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Oct 3, 2017 15:57
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MikeC posted:Nerfed torpedoes or not, the primary mindset of BB players at all times in almost all tiers is how not torpedoed. 95% of the time this is because they're lovely, cowardly babies though that position like garbage, fail to use their tools, and then spaz out about how unfair it is that such a tiny boat could damage their glorious steel penis. They're just deathly afraid of any kind of damage, despite being in the boat best able to take it.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:36
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Torpedoes are pretty far down the list of things I worry about when I play BBs because I have WASD hacks.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:38
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:95% of the time this is because they're lovely, cowardly babies though that position like garbage, fail to use their tools, and then spaz out about how unfair it is that such a tiny boat could damage their glorious steel penis. You're talking to someone with well over half their games total in BBs, and nearly 90% in German ships period. Oh, and has never played any DDs over T6, and not a single actual torpedo boat at all. You can safely ignore any suggestion they have on what the actual problem is. Now, using them as an insight into what certain battleship mains love to claim is the reason, despite multiple nerfs to that aspect with absolutely no change in the meta (it in fact got worse), is a different matter.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:42
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MikeC posted:As a guy who has spent much of my time in high tier BBs, its torpedoes all day every day. All of these things you mention here are so far back on the list of concerns compared to torpedoes that it is next to nonexistent. Vigilance, hydro, fighter, spotter plane, that mod that increases your torp acquisition range, cv drivers parking fighters over DDs. If you are a "tiop tier BB guy" dying constantly to torps maybe you should try speccing to avoid them? The only time I die to torps from ships is when I go full retard and push in to far, which admittedly is often, but I do understand it's the payoff for being super aggressive. Unlike you, I play high tier cruisers and dying to blobs of BBs I can't even shoot back at, much less do anything other than maybe setting a few fires is my game. It's not fun. You can tell how much not fun it is by simply looking at how many cruisers queue for tier 10 games compared to how many BBs. BBs are easy mode purely and simply and that's why there are so many of them.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:46
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Sperglord Actual posted:Torpedoes are pretty far down the list of things I worry about when I play BBs because I have WASD hacks. I hear glancing at your minimap is also extremely OP.
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Oct 3, 2017 17:54
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It is. Although Wargaming doesn't know how to program UI scaling for a 4k monitor so I still miss things sometimes. 
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Oct 3, 2017 19:17
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I pine for the days where all BB players are aggressive AF. You can soak so much damage up and just stick your big dick into a point and spurt hot flaming.... well you get the picture. Getting into brawls is also really satisfying and any time it happens everyone is like gently caress YEAH that was fun, even when they lost the engagement.
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Oct 3, 2017 19:20
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